Will fox hunting be legal again?

[Llamaman]

its the unstunned that needs banned, maybe I should have worded it better so people like you don't fly off on one being pedantic when you know fine well what people actually mean. I'll know better in future to be totally precise in my replys.

Yes, you should have said "unstunned", if that's what you meant. Instead you used a term that in >99% of cases doesn't apply to what you're referring to, and also excludes well-known other examples of what you do object to. That isn't pedantry at all. if you use a word that doesn't mean what you think it does, it's not the reader's fault if they don't comprehend your argument- I even went out of my way to give you the opportunity to clarify, which you rejected out of hand. If you knew >99% of Halal was prestunned, (and since you can quote statistics, you've clearly done some research so would know this) why use it a as term to describe non-stunned meat? That makes no sense. It's like using "Scandinavian" to refer to dark-haired, brown-eyed people, then being surprised by the reaction.

I'm opposed to that, it has nothing to do with hating religion (although I do)

So why did you make a particular point of mentioning religion in your post, and use a religious word when a non-religious one (non-stunned) would not only have done the job, but done it much, much better? You chose to make religion a point of your argument, Why did you use the term for one religion where 1% of the meat you object to, and not the one where 100% you object to?

Something doesn't smell right, and it's not just the odour of the stale Jaffa cakes around here.

 

[dejongj]

I have no problem with killing animals for food be that picking up your meat fish etcetera from the local butcher, fishmonger or supermarket or going out yourself and shooting or fishing. I don’t even have a problem with the controlled culling of certain animals as long as it’s done as humanly as possible. But I do however disagree with people killing animals for so called sport be that fox, deer, otter or hare hunting with dogs, bull baiting, cockfighting or dog fighting or any other form you can think off be they done by upper-class, middle-class, working-class or the great unwashed they are all f**king tw*ts.

This is just my opinion to which I'm entitled to under various laws and statutes of this once great country just the same as everyone else.


But come the revolution those that disagree will be shot, and maybe in the face.


PS for anyone with a sense of humour failure the first part is serious the latter are not.

Although I don't agree regarding the sport/recreation/pass time activities I respect your views and can understand many feel like that about it.

 

[viv1969]

Yes, you should have said "unstunned", if that's what you meant. Instead you used a term that in >99% of cases doesn't apply to what you're referring to, and also excludes well-known other examples of what you do object to. That isn't pedantry at all. if you use a word that doesn't mean what you think it does, it's not the reader's fault if they don't comprehend your argument- I even went out of my way to give you the opportunity to clarify, which you rejected out of hand. If you knew >99% of Halal was prestunned, (and since you can quote statistics, you've clearly done some research so would know this) why use it a as term to describe non-stunned meat? That makes no sense. It's like using "Scandinavian" to refer to dark-haired, brown-eyed people, then being surprised by the reaction.


So why did you make a particular point of mentioning religion in your post, and use a religious word when a non-religious one (non-stunned) would not only have done the job, but done it much, much better? You chose to make religion a point of your argument, Why did you use the term for one religion where 1% of the meat you object to, and not the one where 100% you object to?

Something doesn't smell right, and it's not just the odour of the stale Jaffa cakes around here.

Be honest.....You stand in front of a mirror and talk to yourself just for the fun of it sometimes, yes?

 

[dejongj]

Something doesn't smell right, and it's not just the odour of the stale Jaffa cakes around here.

It's the smell of blood

 

[dejongj]

Be honest.....You stand in front of a mirror and talk to yourself just for the fun of it sometimes, yes?

Shouting at the stars is another futile exercise, I've never been able to get them to move either.

 

[Llamaman]

Hmm, just did some more up-to-date research and one source reckons 88% of Halal is stunned. Not sure if this is a due to different research methods, or represents a downwards trend - which would be disappointing.

 

[boyfalldown]

Shouting at the stars is another futile exercise, I've never been able to get them to move either.

you tried holding back the tides yet??

 

[dejongj]

you tried holding back the tides yet??

Only when I was a little boy, haven't stuck a finger in a dyke for years.

 

[Llamaman]

you tried holding back the tides yet??

He's often been called a Canute, if that's what you're alluding to

 

[Llamaman]

Be honest.....You stand in front of a mirror and talk to yourself just for the fun of it sometimes, yes?

No, but I might give it a try. At least then I'm assured of an intelligent reply.

 

[boyfalldown]

Only when I was a little boy, haven't stuck a finger in a dyke for years.

That dutch up bringing wasn't so liberal after all then?

 

[Llamaman]

Only when I was a little boy, haven't stuck a finger in a dyke for years.

And Greg is thankful for that, although the injunction remains in place as a precaution.

 

[dejongj]

That dutch up bringing wasn't so liberal after all then?

Oh no, I'm very liberal but also monogamous.

 

[POAH]

Yes, you should have said "unstunned", if that's what you meant. Instead you used a term that in >99% of cases doesn't apply to what you're referring to, and also excludes well-known other examples of what you do object to. That isn't pedantry at all. if you use a word that doesn't mean what you think it does, it's not the reader's fault if they don't comprehend your argument- I even went out of my way to give you the opportunity to clarify, which you rejected out of hand. If you knew >99% of Halal was prestunned, (and since you can quote statistics, you've clearly done some research so would know this) why use it a as term to describe non-stunned meat? That makes no sense. It's like using "Scandinavian" to refer to dark-haired, brown-eyed people, then being surprised by the reaction.

yawn, its blissfully obvious that when people say halal they mean the slaughter of animals that are unstunned.

So why did you make a particular point of mentioning religion in your post, and use a religious word when a non-religious one (non-stunned) would not only have done the job, but done it much, much better? You chose to make religion a point of your argument, Why did you use the term for one religion where 1% of the meat you object to, and not the one where 100% you object to?

Something doesn't smell right, and it's not just the odour of the stale Jaffa cakes around here.

The killing of animals that are unstunned is a purely religious activity so saying halal distinguishes that type from normal stunned killing. Other than that I really have no idea what you are trying to imply

 

[POAH]

Hmm, just did some more up-to-date research and one source reckons 88% of Halal is stunned. Not sure if this is a due to different research methods, or represents a downwards trend - which would be disappointing.

60% increase last year in unstunned slaughter.

 

[dejongj]

yawn, its blissfully obvious that when people say halal they mean the slaughter of animals that are unstunned.



The killing of animals that are unstunned is a purely religious activity so saying halal distinguishes that type from normal stunned killing. Other than that I really have no idea what you are trying to imply

Not obvious to me. I understood that Halal covered both in the UK. And the the unstunned was dramatically reduced. I fail to see the reason to ban halal/kosher meat.

 

[Llamaman]

yawn, its blissfully obvious that when people say halal they mean the slaughter of animals that are unstunned.

No it isn't, because that's not what halal means. And as someone who has clearly researched the issue, you would know that. Kosher would have been a more appropriate term, since all kosher meat is unstunned. I have yet to come across a single opponent of unstunned meat who refers exclusively to kosher in the way some do to halal. And I think I know why.

 

[dejongj]

60% increase last year in unstunned slaughter.

Then let's focus on that and get that sorted rather than overreacting and banning it all.

 

[Llamaman]

Shouting at the stars is another futile exercise,

Which is why my chat show never got past it's pilot.

 

[Llamaman]

Then let's focus on that and get that sorted rather than overreacting and banning it all.

Exactly. Once you've made all meat pre-stunned, then the only difference between Halal/Kosher and 'normal' is the prayer, which I'm totally ambivalent about. Which brings us back to the start of this debate...

 

[Cobra]

OK Guys when I said

We tend to be more lenient on a Friday TBH

It wasn't carte blanche to attack each other!!
Please quit with the personals and attack the post not the poster
Thanks

oh right ST4, I thought the above comment was about @Cobra hence the big bubba picture

I'm watching you my lad

 

[tarric]

not if you are ST4

He may just be first to set an example.

 

[POAH]

No it isn't, because that's not what halal means. And as someone who has clearly researched the issue, you would know that. Kosher would have been a more appropriate term, since all kosher meat is unstunned. I have yet to come across a single opponent of unstunned meat who refers exclusively to kosher in the way some do to halal. And I think I know why.

it is what halal means, when the animal is stunned first it is no longer killed as to the religious instructions. A lot of muslims won't eat stunned meat.

 

[POAH]

Not obvious to me. I understood that Halal covered both in the UK. And the the unstunned was dramatically reduced. I fail to see the reason to ban halal/kosher meat.

because its not morally wrong to slaughter an animal in that maner just for religious reasons.

 

[boyfalldown]

it is what halal means, when the animal is stunned first it is no longer killed as to the religious instructions. A lot of muslims won't eat stunned meat.

what rot. Just for you this is what his said about stunning and halal meat

Stunning cannot be used to kill an animal, according to the Halal Food Authority (HFA), a non-profit organisation that monitors adherence to halal principles. But it can be used if the animal survives and is then killed by halal methods, the HFA adds.

so you can stun and still be halal. However you can't stun kosher meat.

 

[new2me]

Au contraire. One prolific contributor was called out for using a racist epithet only last week, but escaped censure.

Makes a "bloody good" cuppa apparently though

 

[Llamaman]

it is what halal means, when the animal is stunned first it is no longer killed as to the religious instructions.

That's just plain wrong. Halal requires the animal to be alive and healthy - there is no specific/explicit requirement for it to be conscious. Most Halal meat is pre-stunned and the vast majority of British muslims accept that (or they wouldn't eat it!).

A lot of muslims won't eat stunned meat.

But most will. Until you convince them that they're wrong.

 

[Phil V]

Well reared animals give better meat. Better meat is good. How it's killed, don't bother me particularly.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the last couple of minutes can taint the flavour, personally I'd like them all to drift off into an alcoholic daze so they die in peace and slightly marinated too.

 

[viv1969]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the last couple of minutes can taint the flavour, personally I'd like them all to drift off into an alcoholic daze so they die in peace and slightly marinated too.

Brilliant.

 

[dejongj]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the last couple of minutes can taint the flavour, personally I'd like them all to drift off into an alcoholic daze so they die in peace and slightly marinated too.

Hmm beer fed and massaged Kobe beef springs to mind. You b*****d, I'm hungry now

 

[Steve Smith]

Personally I could care less about Hallam/kosher/standard. If it tastes good I'll eat it.

Could or couldn't?


Steve.

 

[eeyore]

Just wondering where the 99% of halal meat is stunned quote came from?
At the moment from Google I can get around 84 to 90%
(taken from a news paper report which talks about 1of 12 slaughter houses that do halal)

 

[eeyore]

That's from the:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...out-religious-slaughter-answered-9331519.html

 

[eeyore]

RSPCA via the BBC seem to think it varies between 81% to 88% depending on the animal.
(can't get the link as it's on the BBC app)

 

[boyfalldown]

is this the one you're thinking of http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27324224

 

[dejongj]

Could or couldn't?


Steve.

Either, it's superfluous really. The important point is that if it tastes nice I'll eat it

 

[eeyore]

is this the one you're thinking of http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27324224

Yup ta

 

[Llamaman]

Just wondering where the 99% of halal meat is stunned quote came from?
At the moment from Google I can get around 84 to 90%
(taken from a news paper report which talks about 1of 12 slaughter houses that do halal)

It wasn't a quote, it was me dredging up a statistic from the depths of my memory. I haven't bothered to try to find the source again, as even if it was right at some point in the past, it's clearly no longer accurate.
I did make a point of posting a more up-to-date figure (once I'd had time to go and look it up) to correct myself though. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong!

That said, whether it's 81%, 88% or 99%, it's clearly NOT the case that Halal = non-stunned as certain people assume/infer/claim.

 

[eeyore]

It's enough for me.
I personally as far as I can avoid any halal or kosher meat. Yes it does mean I miss out on a post beer elephant leg but I'm happy to. I try to avoid any takeaway that does sell it and I do ask. Sometimes tho If I'm out and we do go for a curry I will order a veg meal, much to the amusement of my mates.

I did know know it was around about 80 ish. Hence me asking

My choice and I'm happy to stick to it

 

[Llamaman]

It's enough for me.
I personally as far as I can avoid any halal or kosher meat. Yes it does mean I miss out on a post beer elephant leg but I'm happy to. I try to avoid any takeaway that does sell it and I do ask. Sometimes tho If I'm out and we do go for a curry I will order a veg meal, much to the amusement of my mates.

I did know know it was around about 80 ish. Hence me asking

My choice and I'm happy to stick to it

If the restaurant were able to confirm that it was stunned Halal, would you still avoid it?

The reason I ask is because if people are avoiding Halal meat altogether to avoid the 10-20% that's non-stunned, this could easily be avoided through labeling non-stunned meat (which I'm in favour of, if we can't can't ban it).