Will fox hunting be legal again?

Gaz J

Gaz J

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Looks like the Tories are actually doing what they've never done before, keep a manifesto pledge, by trying to get fox hunting reinstated.

I knew there was a reason why I hate the Conservative party.
 
They may as well legalise it, the existing law is ineffective, largely ignored and not enforced anyway.
 
From some research I did years back, I was lead to believe that using dogs to hunt foxes was probably the most humane was to cull their numbers. Shooting can be problematic as you could very easily mame a fox but it'll go to ground and probably suffer a slow & painful death but if a fox is caught by a pack of dogs, within seconds it'll have it's neck broken and die.

I can't help thinking a lot of the "anti" brigade are more against the "type" of person who goes fox hunting although on face value a group of people on horses and a pack of dogs does seem excessive.
 
Technically it'll be hunt, but not to the kill.
Yeah right, 'cause that'll happen :lol:
 
viv1969 said:
Technically it'll be hunt, but not to the kill.
Yeah right, 'cause that'll happen :LOL:
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Yeah.... a pack of dogs totally understand the concept of "chase the fox but only tickle it's belly if you catch it" :lol:

Given the mess they leave in my garden, the noises they make in the night and the fact that we have to put all of Evie's stuff away every night because they're also theiving gits, I'd welcome a hunt into my garden :lol:
 
Russ77 said:
From some research I did years back, I was lead to believe that using dogs to hunt foxes was probably the most humane was to cull their numbers. Shooting can be problematic as you could very easily mame a fox but it'll go to ground and probably suffer a slow & painful death but if a fox is caught by a pack of dogs, within seconds it'll have it's neck broken and die.

I can't help thinking a lot of the "anti" brigade are more against the "type" of person who goes fox hunting although on face value a group of people on horses and a pack of dogs does seem excessive.
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It's exactly that. The persecution by the urbanite left wing of the landed and rural classes.
 
Russ77 said:
Yeah.... a pack of dogs totally understand the concept of "chase the fox but only tickle it's belly if you catch it" :LOL: :LOL:
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That completely made me :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Gaz J said:
Looks like the Tories are actually doing what they've never done before, keep a manifesto pledge, by trying to get fox hunting reinstated..
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Fox hunting is not illegal though it is constrained and still will be under these rumoured proposals. Mouse hunting, which I and many others do every day, is completely illegal in England under the H with D Act :(
 
Russ77 said:
From some research I did years back, I was lead to believe that using dogs to hunt foxes was probably the most humane was to cull their numbers. Shooting can be problematic as you could very easily mame a fox but it'll go to ground and probably suffer a slow & painful death but if a fox is caught by a pack of dogs, within seconds it'll have it's neck broken and die.

I can't help thinking a lot of the "anti" brigade are more against the "type" of person who goes fox hunting although on face value a group of people on horses and a pack of dogs does seem excessive.
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I disagree. I feel that hunting with dogs is far from humane - the kill itself may be very quick, but the fear and stress is likely to last a long time. As for shooting being inhumane, I agree up to a point - there are people who are too stupid and too uncaring to use the right tool for the job, in fact there are even some people who think it's OK to shoot foxes with airguns - but if I shoot a fox with my .243 rifle, with a frangible bullet travelling at 3950 feet per second, the fox won't suffer regardless of where the round strikes. Admittedly there are some police firearms licensing authorities that consider this level of power to be "overkill" - whatever that means - but even the more common .223 rifle, firing a soft nosed bullet, is perfectly humane.

And all hunting needs to be put into context. Foxes have no real natural predators, which means that those that aren't killed by bullets or cars die of starvation when they become to old or ill to hunt. The reality is that when they can't catch rats, rabbits, pheasants etc they turn to hens and (when available) lambs, that's when they become a problem and get shot.
 
sphexx said:
Fox hunting is not illegal though it is constrained and still will be under these rumoured proposals. Mouse hunting, which I and many others do every day, is completely illegal in England under the H with D Act :(
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The Hunting Act 2004 made fox hunting with dogs illegal in England and Wales.

The new proposal is to enable hunts to once again use hounds, but not to the kill.
 
Cartus said:
It sends out a message, it's emblematic of the aristocracy. There should be no place for fox hunting with dogs in modern society, it belongs with hare coursing and cock fighting etc, firmly in the past.
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:agree:
 
sphexx said:
Not true, I guess you have not read the Act. I have, many times.
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Are you talking about exemptions?
Hardly applies in regards to a Sunday jaunt by the Belvoir though does it?
Be a bloody small "pack" :lol:
 
simon ess said:
I find the idea of making it legal to kill animals for sport to be beyond astonishing.

I find anyone who enjoys killing animals for sport to be beyond understanding.
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I don't. Shooting, fishing, hunting, bull fighting are all excellent worthy pursuits IMHO.

My mate goes grouse and pheasant shooting. It's fun and the proceeds make for an excellent casserole.
 
ST4 said:
I don't. Shooting, fishing, hunting, bull fighting are all excellent worthy pursuits IMHO.

My mate goes grouse and pheasant shooting. It's fun and the proceeds make for an excellent casserole.
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No surprise that you support it. I'm pretty sure that you will support anything that the majority of people find repulsive.
 
Gaz J said:
No surprise that you support it. I'm pretty sure that you will support anything that the majority of people find repulsive.
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So the majority of people which fox hunting doesbt effect is right.

It's about liberties and the erosion of people's pass times that I'm worried about. What's next, shooting, fishing, hill waking, photography because some clueless socialist takes a dislike to a passtime practiced by someone wealthier than them?

Basically the chippy labourites don't like the "toffs" so thought this would be a good way to get one over.
 
ST4 said:
So the majority of people which fox hunting doesbt effect is right.

It's about liberties and the erosion of people's pass times that I'm worried about. What's next, shooting, fishing, hill waking, photography because some clueless socialist takes a dislike to a passtime practiced by someone wealthier than them?

Basically the chippy labourites don't like the "toffs" so thought this would be a good way to get one over.
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It's 'past time'.
 
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ST4 said:
Why? Because they have more money and land/assets than others. What is wrong with someone inheriting their families wealth. Passing down property is an aspiration to many, so what if a few can manage it.
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So, if we go back two hundred years all the wealth would have been held by the local Lord and the population would have either been servants or factors of production through which the Lords would have enriched themselves.

What would your role have been Steve do you think?
 
viv1969 said:
Are you talking about exemptions?
Hardly applies in regards to a Sunday jaunt by the Belvoir though does it?
Be a bloody small "pack" :LOL:
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Well the Act starts
"1.Hunting wild mammals with dogs
A person commits an offence if he hunts a wild mammal with a dog, unless his hunting is exempt."
No mention of hounds or foxes and in the ensuing pages there is no definition of "hunting" and no definition of "intent". It has been held in court cases that the hunting must be searching fo a particular animal, ie not just casting about generally. I think (though I am not sure precisely because it is all so muddy) that it has been held that the Act does not define whether the "intention" is on the part of the dog or the person in charge of it. The whole Act is bonkers because it was written by people who have no idea what takes place in hunting and coursing and, to a lesser extent, amendments were made by people who do know. As I wrote earlier the sort of thing that is really clear, because there are no exemptions, is hunting mice or squirrels in your own garden is banned by the Act, though I think even there it may be OK if you catch the mice and feed them to your chickens. I know this sounds bonkers but go read the Act for yourself.
 
I've read it.
I simply fail to see why some are so worked up over it.
Yes, the act is worded badly, but find me one that isn't.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmm
 
ST4 said:
Says you. Are you gospel. People enjoying fishing, hunting and shooting, Are they dicks?
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If the sole aim is for pleasure then yes.
If it's a means to an end, say for food or pest control then no.
 
eeyore said:
If the sole aim is for pleasure then yes.
If it's a means to an end, say for food or pest control then no.
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I'm kinda on the fence with this one, I've been in pest control and wildlife management, in one form or another, for a lot of years,
I guess it would be hypercritical of me to come down on the anti side.
But that said, rather than "play with it", If I set out to kill something, I do it as quickly and cleanly as humanly possible.
 
I think as pest control hunting with dogs is valid and a vote on the matter is the best thing.
 
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Mr Bump said:
I think as pest control hunting with dogs is valid and a vote on the matter is the best thing.
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In pest control, I've only ever used dogs for ratting in a barn,
or running in a field to put rabbits to ground before "dealing with them"
 
If hunting with dogs is the most effective and humane form of fox control, I would agree.

I've yet to see the evidence that this is the case.
 
simon ess said:
If hunting with dogs is the most effective and humane form of fox control, I would agree.
I've yet to see the evidence that this is the case.
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Indeed, the hunting lobby did itself no favours at the time when the ban was introduced when it had some spokespersons claiming it was effective pest control and others claiming most times the fox gets away. Umm, not sure that adds up.
 
Llamaman said:
it was effective pest control
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I often wonder why one or two of us go out with a .223's etc rather than a team / harras of horses and a pack of hounds,
Perhaps we'd get a few more if we did that?
 
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