Wi-Fi Central Heating Controllers

[RaglanSurf]

Has anybody got/fitted a wifi central heating controller live Hive or Tado? Any problems, recommendations, things to avoid etc?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Sold lots of hives, customers love it.
Once set up they seem to have few issues with connection etc.

 

[chphotos]

Hive here also - upgraded to Hive2 without problems, with improved functionality.

 

[srichards]

I have a tado. It's pretty good The instructions that were with it were awful though. It's just a switch but they way they carry on you'd think you would be wiring in the starship enterprise. They also seem to think if you don't already have a room stat you need some extra connector nonsense. You don't. You can just wire it in fresh but they can't give you instructions for doing that. Or couldn't. They may have seen sense now.

Mine works with an antique 20 year old boiler. I'm now warm all the time and it appears to cost the same than running the heating twice a day which I can't quite understand as the house was frequently blooming freezing and was warm about an hour in the morning and hour later on. With the tado in charge it's warm from first thing until bedtime. It generally comes on every couple of hours to pick the temperature back up when it's cold. Otherwise it can just come on a bit in the morning and not at all the rest of the day if it's sunny and warmer.

If you have a smart phone then it's very handy as you can control the heating from anywhere and if you use the auto away it'll turn it down when you go out and make sure the heating comes back on before you get in. That's the theory but that bit hasn't worked for me at all. It generally means I return to a freezing cold house as it completely under estimates how long it will take to heat. Which is silly as it gets the temperature right 99% of the mornings so I don't understand how they can fail to calculate how far they can let the temperature drop. There is now a fixed away temperature option but that won't start the heating in advance of your return (!). Annoying but I have been using that with a small drop and that was ok. I am currently trying the auto away again to see if it has improved.

You need a reliable internet connection though as a lot of the functionality is server side rather than within the gubbins in your house. If it loses internet then it will carry on doing whatever it is doing at the moment so if it is off it'll stay off, if on it'll stay on. There have been a few server outages and sometimes the tado stat thingy loses connection with the tado internet doofer that is plugged into the router. Ideally these want to be reasonably close together to minimise any issues.

Most of the time it just works at heating the house right.

 

[StewartR]

I'm interested in the answers to this too.

We're currently having our house extended and renovated, and we'll need to decide how the heating is controlled. There will probably be three zones - underfloor, downstairs radiators, upstairs radiators - and I really hate the idea of having three of those stupid programmer/timer things.

I've heard a load of radio adverts for Hive, but to my mind they're selling the wrong capabilities. I don't want to turn the heating off while I'm waiting for the bus after leaving in a rush. I don't want to turn up the heat while I'm still in bed. I want the system to get it right for me, with me having to intervene as infrequently as possible. And if Hive can do that, they're (literally) not making a song and dance about it.

So with that in mind, I'd welcome any recommendations. Hive? Tado? Nest? What can each of them do that the others can't do, or can't do as well?

 

[srichards]

I don't intervene with tado much. It comes on to make the house warm by the time I get up. It stays warm all day. It turns it down if I go out without me needing to do anything. It turns it back up when I get in.

The tado stat lives in the hallway slightly up the stairs so it is out of drafts and sunlight. I then work the radiator valves of that so when it reaches temperature there the rooms are the correct warmth.

The much more expensive evohome system might be what you need.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

I'm interested in the answers to this too.

We're currently having our house extended and renovated, and we'll need to decide how the heating is controlled. There will probably be three zones - underfloor, downstairs radiators, upstairs radiators - and I really hate the idea of having three of those stupid programmer/timer things.

I've heard a load of radio adverts for Hive, but to my mind they're selling the wrong capabilities. I don't want to turn the heating off while I'm waiting for the bus after leaving in a rush. I don't want to turn up the heat while I'm still in bed. I want the system to get it right for me, with me having to intervene as infrequently as possible. And if Hive can do that, they're (literally) not making a song and dance about it.

So with that in mind, I'd welcome any recommendations. Hive? Tado? Nest? What can each of them do that the others can't do, or can't do as well?

One of my friends did a lot of research and has gone for HoneyWell EvoHome because each radiator gets it's own controllable digital thermostatic valve so you can set different temperatures in different rooms.

We got a Nest installed, which is great as well, especially as at the time NPower were offering them for free, the new house didn't have any thermostat at all (it was just on or off) and the slightly higher rates we paid in return for the free tech, were still outweighed by the savings we'd make from the free installation and the reduced heating bill.

 

[RaglanSurf]

Thanks for your insight folks, much appreciated. I'm erring towards the Hive but I think that's only because more people seem to have it compared to other controllers but will have a look around at the other options.

 

[Bigdeaks]

I have a Netatmo Thermostat, which is excellent- it was simple to rewire the receiver in place of an old wired thermostat and use the new wireless thermostat wherever suits. I was put of Hive as I would have had to had fitted it myself as BG wouldnt fit to an oil system but sounded good and does hot water too, Nest sounded a bit too automated for my liking, Tado seemed too based on your smartphone location which I wasnt convinced by. Evohome looked good and very customisable but very expensive, espicially if fitting to an older system, and adding lots of zones etc.

 

[dejongj]

Other than the bit to control when I am not at home, I don't get what these devices do over and above a normal good thermostat. Our Honeywell system was self learning 16 years ago in that it adapts on when to switch on the heating to get it to temperature when you want it, and included minimum frost protection etc.

Im wondering if I am missing some great and wonderful thing? Also do they require two communication and thus a hole punched into the firewall to communicate?

 

[TCR4x4]

How do they work with ancient boilers? Ours doesn't even have a separate thermostat, everything is controlled on the boiler itself, so its either on or off, and usually either freezing cold or boiling hot. Id love to be able to get the house to a reasonable temp and keep it there rather than keep turning the heating on and off throughout the day.

 

[dejongj]

How do they work with ancient boilers? Ours doesn't even have a separate thermostat, everything is controlled on the boiler itself, so its either on or off, and usually either freezing cold or boiling hot. Id love to be able to get the house to a reasonable temp and keep it there rather than keep turning the heating on and off throughout the day.

The boiler normally has got a connection as to where to hook up a thermostat. And switching it off and on is exactly what it does, no further magic at the boiler end. A smarter thermostat simply learns when to switch it on or off in order to maintain the temperature.

 

[StewartR]

Other than the bit to control when I am not at home, I don't get what these devices do over and above a normal good thermostat. Our Honeywell system was self learning 16 years ago in that it adapts on when to switch on the heating to get it to temperature when you want it, and included minimum frost protection etc.

I think that depends on what you consider to be a "normal good thermostat".

Most systems in the UK have a timer which switches the boiler on at set times and off at set times, and a thermostat which switches the boiler off if the temperature exceeds the set level. That's it - just two binary switches. The 16 year old self learning system you describe is way, way in advance of that.

A modern 'smart' thermostat might include some or all of the following capabilities:
- adjust its on/off times taking account of internal and external ambient temperature, actual and forecast weather, etc, so that the house is warm when (and only when) you want it to be warm;
- allow different temperatures to be set at different times of the day;
- allow different parts of the house to have different on/off cycles and different temperatures;
- detect when there's nobody home and automatically turn the heat down/off.

Plus there's the remote controllability and geofencing that you know about.

 

[dejongj]

I think that depends on what you consider to be a "normal good thermostat".

Most systems in the UK have a timer which switches the boiler on at set times and off at set times, and a thermostat which switches the boiler off if the temperature exceeds the set level. That's it - just two binary switches. The 16 year old self learning system you describe is way, way in advance of that.

A modern 'smart' thermostat might include some or all of the following capabilities:
- adjust its on/off times taking account of internal and external ambient temperature, actual and forecast weather, etc, so that the house is warm when (and only when) you want it to be warm;
- allow different temperatures to be set at different times of the day;
- allow different parts of the house to have different on/off cycles and different temperatures;
- detect when there's nobody home and automatically turn the heat down/off.

Plus there's the remote controllability and geofencing that you know about.

Cool, yes other than remote access my Honeywell thermostat does all that. Measures ambient temperature and takes that into calculations of how long to heat up the house, supports three zones (well more but that is how many we have) etc.

 

[srichards]

How do they work with ancient boilers? Ours doesn't even have a separate thermostat, everything is controlled on the boiler itself, so its either on or off, and usually either freezing cold or boiling hot. Id love to be able to get the house to a reasonable temp and keep it there rather than keep turning the heating on and off throughout the day.

My boiler is 20. It has a thermostat connection on the main controller board which turns it on and off.

What model is your ancient one?

 

[TCR4x4]

It's a valiant something or other. About 16 years old I think. Looks to be a pretty cheap end combi.

 

[srichards]

Vaillant are top quality. They might look a bit cheap but they usually last well. I'd expect one of theirs to have an ability to attach a thermostat. I'd Google the model number.

 

[Ian D J]

My newly fitted Ideal combi boiler come with its own wireless remote controller, so instead of pacing back and forth to "fettle" with the thermostat, I can now do it from the comfort of my hobby room. It did take a while for me to work out the optimum "comfortable" temperature as the sensor is now in a warmer room whereas the original Honeywell thermostat used to be in a back room which is the coldest part of the house.

 

[nilagin]

Had a new Combi boiler and wifi controller installed just over a week ago. The controller is an ESI. It has 6 time programmes on for Monday to Friday and another 6 time programmes for Saturday and Sunday. That way you can set the temperature to whatever you want for whatever time of day and night.

 

[StewartR]

It did take a while for me to work out the optimum "comfortable" temperature as the sensor is now in a warmer room whereas the original Honeywell thermostat used to be in a back room which is the coldest part of the house.

That's one issue which bothers me. Logically the thermostat *should* be in the coldest part of the house. If it's in a warm place, then when it gets up to temperature it will stop the cold places getting any heat.

I'm assuming that our plumber / heating engineer will advise us where to put the thermostat(s). But you see so many where it's obviously wrong, I'm not sure how to know whether I can trust him to get it right.

 

[RaglanSurf]

One of the reasons I'm considering one is that my system has no thermostat, it's a combi-boiler and just has the controls on the boiler itself. Because I work unpredictable hours it's often heating an empty flat so being able to fire up the heating when I'm heading home would be really useful. It's just finding the right gadget for the job. There's also a likelihood that I'll be changing the boiler sometime in the near future so would like to be able to swap it onto a new boiler if necessary.

 

[dejongj]

That's one issue which bothers me. Logically the thermostat *should* be in the coldest part of the house. If it's in a warm place, then when it gets up to temperature it will stop the cold places getting any heat.

I'm assuming that our plumber / heating engineer will advise us where to put the thermostat(s). But you see so many where it's obviously wrong, I'm not sure how to know whether I can trust him to get it right.

I disagree. In many houses in the uk I see them in the hall way, a place where heating goes straight upstairs, and also gets occasional losses of heat when the front door opens etc. That will distort the general setting where, in my opinion, the system is unnecessarily running. For example living areas are still roasting, yet the boiler continues to operate and burn because the hallway has had a draft.

Naturally these things are personal, and there are ways around. But I don't like the boiler running to heat up areas that aren't frequented anyway.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Theoretically if the 'stat is in the coldest part of the house and the radiator there has not TRV then it should be possible to set the TRVs on all the other radiators to maintain a comfortable temperature when the place where the 'stat is has reached its desied temperature. Further, the temperature should fall fastest in the coldest bit of the house so the 'stat will call for heat before everywhere else cools down.

In my house the coldest part, or at least the part that needs the most heat, is the lounge, as it is a square and has three external walls. So I have a honeywell cm927 wireless (not wifi) 'stat positioned there and the radiator TRVs on full. In the other rooms I can turn the TRVs down. The hallway is the warmest part as the heat from all the other rooms feeds into it, so when I had an old dial type 'stat it kept turning the heating off way too soon.

I don't use the time switch on the heating, I run it 24/7 365 days/year and just allow the 'stat to control the temperature (19c first thing in the morning and in the evening plus weekends, 15c weekday daytimes when I'm at work and overnight).

One of the newer Internet connected systems could potentially benefit me by turning it off when I'm out for the day at weekends or on if I'm home in the week, but I'll wait for the Honeywell to die before looking into it.

 

[srichards]

One of the reasons I'm considering one is that my system has no thermostat, it's a combi-boiler and just has the controls on the boiler itself. Because I work unpredictable hours it's often heating an empty flat so being able to fire up the heating when I'm heading home would be really useful. It's just finding the right gadget for the job. There's also a likelihood that I'll be changing the boiler sometime in the near future so would like to be able to swap it onto a new boiler if necessary.

I think the Tado is the only one that does that properly. I think the Hive just learns your habits so it turns it down when it thinks you should have gone out.

If there is an IFTTT channel available you can add that feature into the others. I think some have done that with one of the others didn't have it already.

Will be interesting to see what the winter quarter is gas usage wise compared to last year.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

I think the Tado is the only one that does that properly. I think the Hive just learns your habits so it turns it down when it thinks you should have gone out.

If there is an IFTTT channel available you can add that feature into the others. I think some have done that with one of the others didn't have it already.

Will be interesting to see what the winter quarter is gas usage wise compared to last year.

You can turn Nest on with it's app, and you can set it to use either it's movement sensor or your phones connection to the wifi to turn it off automatically if you go out. Have to say, when we'd been holiday in January, being able to turn the heating on when we were an hour away from home and getting home to a nice warm house was lovely.

 

[wyx087]

Another Tado user here DIY installed to replace my Honeywell thermostat. The dumb thermostat is just that, dumb. It has a hysteresis in temperature, so we could feel the house getting warm and cold like a sine wave. Tado profiles your home in the initial week. It then only heats as necessary and even stop the heating before temperature reaches optimum, so that the remaining heat in the system heats the house to the perfect temperature. No waste.

We don't live on a schedule, so the Tado geo-location is perfect. As you get nearer to your house, it raises desirable temperature and central heating starts before you walk through the door, all without pressing anything! Nest guesses your presence and schedule via sensors have been reported to only work after 3 hours of you leaving, or uses IFTTT geo-location as binary in/out. Hive has similar geo-location feature, not sure how well it works, but I dislike Hive because it is a traditional product.

Tado and Nest are not traditional products, it's like Tesla cars vs Mercedes, both nice cars, but with Tesla, you'll get additional features as long as your hardware supports it. Tado has recently added IFTTT integration, there's multi-zone coming soon. Connected smart TRV are also in the pipeline. Tado's development roadmap here:
https://support.tado.com/hc/en-gb/a...e-planned-What-is-on-the-Development-Roadmap-
Apart from Apple's Homekit integration, all other new features (multizone, smart TRV) will work with existing kit.

They are also very proactive in listening to the users. I submitted the idea for a boost timer, eg. turn on heating for 10min with press of a button.

 

[mindcrime]

Just moved into an old, by Canadian standards, 1947 raised bungalow and it has a 20 year old, mid-efficient furnace in the crawl space. It was controlled via an ancient bakelite mercury thermostat. The first thing we did was ditch this and install a Nest. The furnace has just 2 wires, which is enough for the Nest to work, and was easy enough for me to install. Love using the app and/or webpage access to control the heating/schedule. The presence sensor is a nice touch, as within a couple of seconds of passing the thermostat, you can hear the furnace kick in, the Nest then shows you when it will reach the desired temperature. Absolutely no complaints about the running of the Nest at the moment, but now that winter has finally decided to hit here; 10cms of snow, and -16c, we'll see how well it keeps the house warm.

 

[srichards]

Just thought I would raise this from the dead and mention Tado have been slowly improving things. The Away function seems to be slightly better. The reason it doesn't work is when they calculate the return speed incorrectly. They seem to have failed to understand if you go further away generally the roads are faster so the average time to return will be shorter than the shorter distance away from home would suggest. It also doesn't seem to be further lowering the temperature while you are out for longer as much as it was. This always struck me as nonsensical. If you are out it will still take the same time to come back but it meant if you stayed out too long you'd come back to a cold house.

The weather feed is still wonky unfortunately. It's been saying the wrong outside temperature for ages. They've added a humidity readout to the app which is useful. The app is definitely better than it was.

 

[Keith W]

So if I already have a normal thermostat in the hall would it just be a case of swapping it out with one of those WiFi ones like Hive or Tado?

Or is there more to it than that?

 

[RaglanSurf]

Seeing you've revived this Suz I thought I'd just update where I ended up. I bought into the Hive system, very simple to have fitted and dead easy to use. I really like the way it messages me when I leave home and asks if I want to turn the heating off and likewise when I'm heading home. The app is simple and easy to use and it gives me full control. I think I must using a fraction of the gas I was before.

 

[srichards]

Seeing you've revived this Suz I thought I'd just update where I ended up. I bought into the Hive system, very simple to have fitted and dead easy to use. I really like the way it messages me when I leave home and asks if I want to turn the heating off and likewise when I'm heading home. The app is simple and easy to use and it gives me full control. I think I must using a fraction of the gas I was before.

It is useful. I do use the manual mode now and then if it's being a muppet and letting it get too cold. Mostly I just leave it to turn down the stat when I go out and turn it up before I get in automagically so it's warm when I get back. I think I'm using the same amount of gas or slightly more but I'm warm all the time rather than being freezing for a lot of the day. The optimised start thing is brilliant. With the totally irregular weather I'd have been faffing around with the timer every single day changing it and guessing what time to put it on.

So if I already have a normal thermostat in the hall would it just be a case of swapping it out with one of those WiFi ones like Hive or Tado?

Or is there more to it than that?

It is that easy Just make sure it doesn't get direct sunlight as that will throw it off a bit. I have mine part way up the stairs so that it averages the temperature a bit better. It's out of sunlight and draughts.

 

[Keith W]

It is that easy Just make sure it doesn't get direct sunlight as that will throw it off a bit. I have mine part way up the stairs so that it averages the temperature a bit better. It's out of sunlight and draughts.

Thanks for the info Suz

Do you rent your Tado or did you buy it outright?

 

[srichards]

Thanks for the info Suz

Do you rent your Tado or did you buy it outright?

I rented it as I wanted to make sure I got a new one when they updated them or if it was a bit wonky... and I'm cheap!

 

[Phil V]

... I don't want to turn up the heat while I'm still in bed. ...

Maybe; but have you asked the Missus?

 

[dejongj]

So if I already have a normal thermostat in the hall would it just be a case of swapping it out with one of those WiFi ones like Hive or Tado?

Or is there more to it than that?

It would just blank the thermostat in the hall. In my opinion it is one of the worst places these days to have a thermostat. Especially if it is a hall with a stairway as hot air rises therefore it could keep the boiler on for an unnecessarily long time. Especially as often a front door opening can cause for a huge difference in temperature and again keeping the boiler on for an unnecessarily long time. Especially if you have your door to the lounge closed.

Modern thermostats are wireless. Just wire the control unit by the boiler, and place the thermostat in the room that takes priority.

Naturally personal preferences can change, I don't car about a warm hallway, I care about the areas where I am to be comfortable and being energy efficient.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Late into the thread but having had Hive for 14 months, I have reviewwd my gas bills and timing.

Pre Hive use campared to a November 2014 - October 2015 12 month gas consumption has seen a 16.5% reduction in gas consumption. The original Hive supply and installation was done on a special £75 deal. The monthly data return on average temperatures have shown an average internal temperature of 19.1C .

In other words the system has more than paid for itself.

Got the new Hive 2 controller today so will fit that tomorrow.

The app control is very easy and useful lately when I have been out, to boost the temperature priot to getting home.

So far so good.

 

[wyx087]

Problem with Tado is that it's not wireless by itself. It is designed to be wired into your heating control unit, which is stupid since most people's control unit is next to the boiler.

To operate Tado thermostat wirelessly (this is how I use it) you'd also need the extension kit. I've experimented with a few different locations before mounting my Tado in the living room. It's where my family spends most waking time, it makes most sense.

Recently Tado have added IFTTT support as well as timer for manual controls. It's like mobile phone updates, there's new features every other month, great for us early adopters.




Following on from my last post regarding Tesla vs Mercedes. I see the latest Mercedes E-class announced it now has over-the-air firmware updates. We are now seeing a slow transition from traditional products to constantly updated services. In next few years, the hardware we buy becomes irrelevant, it's all about continuously up-to-date software. Let's not forget the fact any connected device (smart home technology especially) are valuable to attacks unless it is kept up-to-date.

 

[strumstrum]

In my house the coldest part, or at least the part that needs the most heat, is the lounge, as it is a square and has three external walls. So I have a honeywell cm927 wireless (not wifi) 'stat positioned there and the radiator TRVs on full. In the other rooms I can turn the TRVs down. The hallway is the warmest part as the heat from all the other rooms feeds into it, so when I had an old dial type 'stat it kept turning the heating off way too soon.

the rad nearest the therm should not have a TRV at all..

 

[Keith W]

Problem with Tado is that it's not wireless by itself. It is designed to be wired into your heating control unit, which is stupid since most people's control unit is next to the boiler.

To operate Tado thermostat wirelessly (this is how I use it) you'd also need the extension kit. I've experimented with a few different locations before mounting my Tado in the living room. It's where my family spends most waking time, it makes most sense.

Recently Tado have added IFTTT support as well as timer for manual controls. It's like mobile phone updates, there's new features every other month, great for us early adopters.

Not my understanding from reading all the info on their website, if I already have a thermostat I can just replace that with a smart thermostat

 

[BruceMo]

All this technology is lost on me but it sounds clever
My misses is the thermostat, it can be -15 outside but if she's having a wee flush the heatings off. Keeps it simple