WHYYY stupid effing chavs???

[neil_g]

I much prefere it if they just changed the legal system to GUILTY till PROVEN innocent.

so basically youve just that you agree with all the togs that have been stopped and searched/arrested etc with no apparent reason..

while i agree that chavs are the arse end of society please think before you make comments like that.

 

[towershot]

Start handing out 2 year prison sentences when they're caught and and it'll stop, a weeks weeding someone's garden and it won't.

I would pay a 1% increase in income tax if they said it was to build 20 new prisons and staff them.

So very agree with that.

I had a neighbour that used to live on the Isle of Mann.

He said you could see it getting worse over the years after they where forced to stop using corporal punishment.

There is simply no decent deterrent these days.

OK the birch might have been OTT but to have nothing with teeth is daft.

 

[david1701]

the other option is to string em up by lamposts ....:O

I'm gonna mention that this was meant sarcastically

 

[Photo Plod]

wouldnt it be brilliant if the law could actualy DO ANYTHING when they caught em.
if they do get caught red handed by the few copsleft , that drive round in their cars, the courts either fail to prosecute, or give em 20 mins mowing lawns.

In a less flippant way, I agree with you totally. The law alone cannot "cure" society. Unfortunately, we see oiky chavs in our cells all the time for anti-social behaviour, but there is never any effective punishment of it. I'm afraid, on the grand scale of criminal behaviour, anti-social-type crime scores very lowly, despite the misery it makes of peoples' lives.

The solution lies in discipline, education and respect.

 

[we11ingon]

Walk softly and carry a big stick...

 

[foodpoison]

I don't think smacking your kids fixes it at all Matty, and it's extremely ignorant to think it does. Good parenting is a proper understanding of discipline and the way your child learns from example.

Ignore them until they do something bad, and retaliate by hitting them, good stuff.
You give them attention until they do something bad, and they learn that bad gets them no where.

My parents never hit me. Not once. They just gave me a good understanding of right and wrong.

Bad parenting isn't a lack of a discipline. It's a misunderstanding of discipline.

 

[goldenlight]

They wouldn't even get community service without CCTV evidence

Well frame them - shove a CAMERA in their hands just as plod turns up, they'll be in big trouble then!

 

[goldenlight]

i seem to recall that a campaign of putting their photo's on the back of buses was cancelled a while ago because it infringed their civil liberties

And gave them bragging rights! Do you think it achieved anything other than feeding their egos with a notoriety that gave them a certain kudos amongst their peers? :shake:

 

[goldenlight]

Conscription is the only answer.

Oh great. Let's train them to be dangerous as well as thick! I think it's best if we stick to a professional, motivated and intelligent army.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Had 7 cars broken into one night on the forecourt. Then I caught them trying to break into the premises.
They haven't been back.


Kev.

A guy broke into several cars on my mate's pitch, ripping out the stereos on all but the last one - the effort was obviously too much for him as he fell asleep in the middle of it.

He was still there, dozing away when Strathclyde's finest arrived a few minutes later

 

[goldenlight]

It saddens me when i see the lack of respect that young people have, and the way they roam the streets in packs.

Some young people. Aren't we in danger of tarring them all with the same brush? We never get to hear about all the brilliant, hard-working, well-behaved children that never cause trouble, because that's not news. And smacking them does not help, it just teaches them that violence is O.K. and that you can impose your will on someone else just by being physically bigger and stronger.

That's not to say that parental guidence and dicipline isn't important, it is. But it's only part of the equation. There often needs to be better community support and social action in problem areas. However good the parents, don't underestimate the power of peer pressure; for a youngster it's by far the easiest option to "go with the crowd" rather than risk alienating yourself. Deprivation, too, plays a large part and it's no use saying that's just an excuse - it's more than that, it's a reason, a tangible factor.

But when all else fails, and often it will, we need a police force that takes the problem seriously and a legal system that can impose real sanctions including a custodial sentence if appropriate, whatever the child's age.

We are fortunate in the area where I live. Trouble makers are in the minority and when I visit my daughter's school I never cease to be amazed by the politeness, good manners, enthusiasm for school activities, quality of work, resoucefulness, confidence and talent of the children. But of course, they never make the front page.

 

[goldenlight]

this is only going to go one way IMO and that is when communities get together and sort out the scum by themselves. i've never really been much of an advocate of vigilante gangs... but i'm warming to the idea. People who are affected by these morons need to see some sort of justice being done when they're caught.. and it just doesn't happen, so in the end they'll dish out their own form of justice.... and quite right too.

And what if the vigilanties get the wrong guy? That isn't justice, it's mob rule and anarchy! There's a strong element of gung-ho flog 'em and hang 'em politics on this site; maybe it would be best if we got back to discussing something that some of us actually know something about - like photography!

 

[markta]

I don't think smacking your kids fixes it at all Matty, and it's extremely ignorant to think it does. Good parenting is a proper understanding of discipline and the way your child learns from example.

Ignore them until they do something bad, and retaliate by hitting them, good stuff.
You give them attention until they do something bad, and they learn that bad gets them no where.

My parents never hit me. Not once. They just gave me a good understanding of right and wrong.

Bad parenting isn't a lack of a discipline. It's a misunderstanding of discipline.

 

[markta]

Well if I went out of line and didn't obey, I got a smack or a clip around the ear 'ole.

I'm not perfect (well I'm being modest ), seriously, I've never hit ANYONE and I've been bought up to respect other people, have manners and discipline.

I think the embarrassment of a smack in front of everyone in for eg a supermarket did play a pivotal role in being the person I am.

I would never abandon my morals, it makes me the person I am and I feel keeping them makes me a better person, so I'm afraid I have to disagree with you :|

 

[AliB]

Discipline is a lack of consequence. Its quite simple. Praise and reward for doing good things, chastisement and some sort of punishment for doing bad. The punishment need not be physical but it does need to be reinforced.

If the parents don't do it, the schools are effectively hamstrung and the whole justice system is so full of mealy mouthed liberals who completely fail to address the problem.

And we wonder why it's a problem?

 

[Matt]

I don't think smacking your kids fixes it at all Matty, and it's extremely ignorant to think it does. Good parenting is a proper understanding of discipline and the way your child learns from example.

Ignore them until they do something bad, and retaliate by hitting them, good stuff.
You give them attention until they do something bad, and they learn that bad gets them no where.

My parents never hit me. Not once. They just gave me a good understanding of right and wrong.

Bad parenting isn't a lack of a discipline. It's a misunderstanding of discipline.

ive got 2 kids, I dont smack them, I dont have to. I dont need to be told how to parent, ive got that covered.

Your quite right about respect and discipline, thats what is missing, they took that out of schools when they started telling us how to be parents.

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

There is just no RESPECT anymore for anyone or anything, makes my blood boil it does.

Spike

I much prefere it if they just changed the legal system to GUILTY till PROVEN innocent.

I get your drift spike, but wheres the respect if we have to prove our inocence? ..

back in the late 80's some hand-wringing leftwing do-gooders decided that smacking children was bad so the cane was removed from schools. Then they said that you shouldnt punish children other than put them on the naughty step as violence begets violence. The 'results' of not using appropriate discipline are now clear and obvious to everyone except the same handwringing liberals. Solution is simple, discipline. It saddens me when i see the lack of respect that young people have, and the way they roam the streets in packs. Thank you to all handwringers everywhere for producing this pitiful generation.

I don’t think this is the reason at all Matty … do you really think the majority of these kids parents all hold back when it comes to physical chastisement? …come on! I’d imagine we’ve all seen these families (in the majority) use every method except reasoning.

Its back to basics. Respect. Some parents just don't teach it or lead by example. Something needs to change.

Kev.

Yes, violence begets violence end of. I think any other argument simply defines the amount of responsibility the parent wants to use to justify their pillow of denial….err what I mean by that is it’s a cop-out.

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

Discipline is a lack of consequence. Its quite simple. Praise and reward for doing good things, chastisement and some sort of punishment for doing bad. The punishment need not be physical but it does need to be reinforced.

If the parents don't do it, the schools are effectively hamstrung and the whole justice system is so full of mealy mouthed liberals who completely fail to address the problem.

And we wonder why it's a problem?

Well put Ali.

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

missed this first time round matty....

ive got 2 kids, I dont smack them, I dont have to. I dont need to be told how to parent, ive got that covered.

Your quite right about respect and discipline, thats what is missing, they took that out of schools when they started telling us how to be parents.

I agree, this is when it started going wrong, but then I think we could also argue this is when it started going right.
I think, like most big changes in the general populations perception of some thing as powerfully intrinsic as parenting, bigger steps need to be taken and a forced change was needed.

 

[Quaker]

I can't agree with conscription, sorry. Having served in the Army the last thing we would have wanted in our unit would be an influx of stroppy chavs who are not there because they want to be.

The Armed Forces are a professional outfit with well motivated people, mix that with unmotivated thugs and it a recipe for disaster.

I agree with many posters, unfortunately the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Last year I woke up one morning to find a group of youth around the back of my car, as I had my running gear laid out I was dressed quickly and out, they had decided to run off. When I got to my car I noticed they had taken a babies nappy out of someones bin down the road and decided to wipe its content all over the back of my car.

Unfortunately for them, I know the local area better than they did so I jumped in my car and gave chase, I managed to catch one of them (after a struggle ) while we were waiting for the police I made him clean the back of my car with his bear hands making him sick, much to my amusement. When the police turned up he took me to one side and told me they couldn't hold him for anything as no damage was done to my car. However, the copper did suggest I gave the youth a good rollocking and scare him a bit, which I did. I told him if any car in my street ever got damaged I would be blaming him and as I overheard him give the copper his address, I knew where to find him. I then told him I would take him up into the Peak District, smash his knees with a hammer and leave him there.

That seemed to do the trick, he started to cry and couldn't apologise enough.

The bottom line is, he had no discipline, no respect and didn't care. It wasn't until I came on all heavy that the penny began to drop and he realised he was probably in more trouble with me that he ever would be with the law.

A sad reflection if you ask me.

 

[Matt]

Let me put it this way then, discipline and respect go hand in hand. Shouting and screaming without reasoning is employed often by 'chav' types, while at the other extreme the liberals are cuddling naughty children and giving them 'love and attention because that is what they are missing'

If a teenage yob smashes a car today, what happens? Antisocial behaviour Badge order? Kudos from his mates, slap on wrist. Nothing else, but 20 years ago my parents would have been forever shamed, id have been severely punished(almost certainly smacked!) the copper would have taken me home, people would point and whisper..the difference is that there is NO respect for law, order and doing the right thing today amongst certain areas of society and it is a direct result of interference in how we manage our children, cultivate respect and teach right and wrong. I disagree that mollycoddling errant youths is the way forward, you need to teach them the difference, teach them about consequences and teach them that being a little **** isnt cool.

the people that come for job interviews, some are disgusting little scrotes who just dont care AT ALL about anything, why are they that way? what has failed them? Society? Parents? People telling their parents how to discipline? Lack of parenting skills?

 

[foodpoison]

Well if I went out of line and didn't obey, I got a smack or a clip around the ear 'ole.

I'm not perfect (well I'm being modest ), seriously, I've never hit ANYONE and I've been bought up to respect other people, have manners and discipline.

I think the embarrassment of a smack in front of everyone in for eg a supermarket did play a pivotal role in being the person I am.

I would never abandon my morals, it makes me the person I am and I feel keeping them makes me a better person, so I'm afraid I have to disagree with you :|

The reason smacking your kids is frowned upon is because most parents don't know how to use it, and so smack their kids all the time - this is what causes angry children. Different strokes for different folks, but we both have great parents.

ive got 2 kids, I dont smack them, I dont have to. I dont need to be told how to parent, ive got that covered.

Your quite right about respect and discipline, thats what is missing, they took that out of schools when they started telling us how to be parents.

I apologise profusely if that came across as me suggesting you're a bad parent. That would have been extremely disrespectful of me.

I totally agree. Schools should be able to perform anything the parents can.

My mum runs a pre-school. If a kid is upset, she's not allowed to hug them to comfort them (she does anyway). If a kid is naughty, there is not allowed to be any naughty area, because that's alienating the child. If a child wants to go and play, they can, whenever they want. Even if it's story time, or snack time, or quiet time. They can do what they want, because according to the government, the child needs to be able to learn and develop in their own time. If the child is hungry, they can go and help themselves to food, even if it's not snack time.

This isn't me making it up, this is what is happening. In f-ing pre-schools. It seems the government is setting them up and knocking them down.

What sort of lesson is that? Do what you want in life and you won't get punished.

 

[foodpoison]

Let me put it this way then, discipline and respect go hand in hand. Shouting and screaming without reasoning is employed often by 'chav' types, while at the other extreme the liberals are cuddling naughty children and giving them 'love and attention because that is what they are missing'

If a teenage yob smashes a car today, what happens? Antisocial behaviour Badge order? Kudos from his mates, slap on wrist. Nothing else, but 20 years ago my parents would have been forever shamed, id have been severely punished(almost certainly smacked!) the copper would have taken me home, people would point and whisper..the difference is that there is NO respect for law, order and doing the right thing today amongst certain areas of society and it is a direct result of interference in how we manage our children, cultivate respect and teach right and wrong. I disagree that mollycoddling errant youths is the way forward, you need to teach them the difference, teach them about consequences and teach them that being a little **** isnt cool.

the people that come for job interviews, some are disgusting little scrotes who just dont care AT ALL about anything, why are they that way? what has failed them? Society? Parents? People telling their parents how to discipline? Lack of parenting skills?

There have always been nasty little scrotes around.
The differing factor is that the parents who don't discipline their kids properly (the waste-of-oxygen people who 'look after' the nasty little scrotes) don't have a school to discipline them properly, either. So there are a lot more of them around.

 

[nilagin]

I'm 47 and I feel my parents did a good job of raising me. If I was naughty, I was punished, if naughty enough I got a wallop. From that I learnt respect and understanding of right and wrong. If I didn't want a wallop, I knew not to do wrong. I hlearnt respect for my parents, Police, teachers etc. Respect is a two way thing, you have to earn it as well as give it.
I've seen mum's at local schools allow their kids to climb all over their cars, including climbing out the sunroof, slide down the windscreen and bonnet, back in the car and repeat over and over again. If they are not going to be taught respect for the things within their own family, what chance do the rest of us have with our possessions.
I have two teenage sons 18 and 12, they both know and understand respect and even though my 18 year old is now, and 1/2 an inch shorter than me, he knows he'd get a wallop if he deserved one. They both have respect for other people, their belongings and all authority.

 

[Vic]

Hmmm this is a difficult one. I think Sean puts it well different strokes for different folks. My Dad hit me and my brother when we were out of line well into our teens and yup we were two well behaved children. However because of this we never had and really still dont have a relationship with our father. I think there is a fine line when hitting a child and if you take it too far you could definitely give your child a very stunted view of parenthood.

These kids who Louise is referring too definitely lack any sort of family structure not just discipline and I genuinely feel sorry for them. The cycle will just perpetuate. My opinion? Everyone should require a license for having a child. Its harsh but if you need to spend hundreds of pounds and months trying to get a license for a car then you should have to pass the same checks to bring a new life into this world. I would love to hear more views on this.

 

[AliB]

I happen to agree Vic, there are more barriers to driving a car than there are to having a child and I'd argue one was as important as the other!

I don't have one of my own but I do have a stepdaughter. Thankfully all the adults in her life have a good relationship and we do discuss her upbringing and how we should all deal with the inevitable pushing of boundaries. All kids do it, but it's down to all of us as adults not to fail her. So we set rules for doing homework and we all stick to them. We all set rules about language and behaviour and reinforce them. So she benefits by having a consistant set of rules no matter which parent she happens to be with. That consistency can only benefit her and we discuss her development and encourage her in as many ways as we can. We do have different skills and knowledge and we hope that by having an extended family she can tap into those. Certainly helps with homework

But that's about responsible parenting, not just about getting a flat and benefits............(puts tin hat on)

 

[Matt]

no worries Sean, you are quite right, and i wasnt offended, just in a bad mood is all..

 

[foodpoison]

What I don't get is that if you want to adopt a child you go through months and months of rigorous tests to make sure you're fit financially, emotionally and physically to look after a child properly.

You can shag someone down an alley, 9 months later pop one out, even though you're on the dole, 16, and don't know who the father is.

 

[AliB]

Yep, you even get a home check to adopt a cat!

 

[barneyrubble]

Problem is - how can you stop that?

You can control adoptions, but you can't control drunken liasons down a back alley.


You'd be infinging their human rights or some other complete *******s like that.

 

[78seconds]

I experienced the same 2 years ago. It was the morning after a bank holiday with many drunken people. In the early hours ou neighbor rang our doorbell and told us that all cars had been scratched - the whole street...My wife went downstairs to see the mess - I couldn´t, I was just angry and had a look out of the window. All cars on one side of the street were scratched...and there was only on car on the opposite side which has been spared...it was mine...puhhh

 

[louise-knight]

woah I didn't realise this thread would attract so much attention! So thank you for everyone's responses and opinions

What I don't get is that if you want to adopt a child you go through months and months of rigorous tests to make sure you're fit financially, emotionally and physically to look after a child properly.

You can shag someone down an alley, 9 months later pop one out, even though you're on the dole, 16, and don't know who the father is.

this got me thinking, and an above comment about having to have some sort of checks. Though, it's usually the child born from that shag down a back alley 9 months previous that ends up at the adoption agency. So I can see, at least they're doing something to get that child the parents it deserves.

I've noticed a rapid increase in kids getting pregnant these days just to get shunted forward on the housing list. A girl I went to college with got herself pregnant at about 17, and all she talked about was how she wasn't getting a flat fast enough.
urgh.

Back on topic, it's definitely a lack of respect, I still don't quite understand where it came from though (although I'm sure there'll be plenty of people telling me!). I know people who have had an incredibly rough upbringing, yet they're a better person than myself.

Anyway, I went outside Sunday morning to check the damage to the cars and it wasn't good - footprints all over the cars on both sides, massive dents, wing mirrors smashed off. Pointless vandalism. The thing is, I don't even live in a rough area yet this seems to happen quite often down my street.. having said that, there is sheltered housing for youths at the end of my road :/

 

[louise-knight]

actually.. I'm just watching Jeremy Kyle now, sums up the thread pretty well

 

[lauren_t]

This happened to my family a few months ago, some kids from the estate up the road smashed our car window, keyed and dented the outside of the car, stole stuff from the glove compartment and graffiti'd the inside and the outside of the car windshield which was nice of them. This happened to most of the cars down our road as well, and was a few lads who were my age and were bored apparently.

 

[paulyoung666]

Anyway, I went outside Sunday morning to check the damage to the cars and it wasn't good - footprints all over the cars on both sides, massive dents, wing mirrors smashed off. Pointless vandalism. The thing is, I don't even live in a rough area yet this seems to happen quite often down my street.. having said that, there is sheltered housing for youths at the end of my road :/

the last house we lived in had a spate of mindless vandalism towards cars the whole street of cars ran over etc etc etc , the road leads to a local sink estate , of course i would be wrong to put 2 and 2 together wouldnt i :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[Flash In The Pan]

What I don't get is that if you want to adopt a child you go through months and months of rigorous tests to make sure you're fit financially, emotionally and physically to look after a child properly.

You can shag someone down an alley, 9 months later pop one out, even though you're on the dole, 16, and don't know who the father is.

My favourite quote from my time at the DHSS was the answer one claimant gave to the question "Can you tell us the identity of the father?






Answer : "No, he was wearing a crash helmet"

 

[BellyBoy]

On an up note to these stupid uneducated, sub human species, here's something which is certainly true:

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L-oCArRoRwo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L-oCArRoRwo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[wack61]

What I don't get is that if you want to adopt a child you go through months and months of rigorous tests to make sure you're fit financially, emotionally and physically to look after a child properly.

You can shag someone down an alley, 9 months later pop one out, even though you're on the dole, 16, and don't know who the father is.

Don't know if it's still true but it used to be the UK had the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe, Holland had the lowest rate.

The difference could be explained by the benefits system, in the UK you get money, furniture, housing etc etc

In Holland you get nothing, if you get pregnant it's up to your family to support you, if they can do it so can we, it'd stop this get pregnant get money culture dead

 

[goldenlight]

My favourite quote from my time at the DHSS was the answer one claimant gave to the question "Can you tell us the identity of the father?






Answer : "No, he was wearing a crash helmet"

It reminds me of the story of the boy who said, "If I'd known you were a virgin I'd have taken more time," to which the girl replied, "If I'd known there was more time I'd have taken my tights off first."

 

[hepburn]

My opinion? Everyone should require a license for having a child. Its harsh but if you need to spend hundreds of pounds and months trying to get a license for a car then you should have to pass the same checks to bring a new life into this world. I would love to hear more views on this.

Better still, sterilise everyone at birth with a procedure which can be reversed once they have earned the license!!

No doubt Jeremy Kyle would complain at being being made redundant, but that's a good thing if you ask me.