Terrywoodenpic
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Frustrating yes.
But people have no compulsion to overtake or get out of the way.
using traffic islands and other cars like chicanes is not good driving.
and please use their services
Why don't drivers get out of the way anymore
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Frustrating yes.
But people have no compulsion to overtake or get out of the way.
using traffic islands and other cars like chicanes is not good driving.
I agree that there is no place for agressive driving on the roads, but the above was a clear case of "failure to make due progress".
I would also say that driving at 25 - 30 mph in a 50 limit in good conditions, is causing an obstruction, and is a pretty dire reflection of the person's driving skill.
Russ77
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A similar conversation came up with my in-laws at the weekend.
They were driving along a 40mph limit road in the fog and felt 30MPH was an appropriate/safe speed, especially given that they were unfamiliar with the road.
They got pulled over by the police for "going too slow" and told "it's people like you who make other people frustrated and cause accidents".
This was on the A12 near Lowestoft so on balance I'd guess the officer in question was grouchy 'cos of his webbed feet
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Darren, please do not get me started on drivers who try to "straightline" roundabouts when you are driving in the outside lane:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:
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....and the numpties that indicate right in the left lane when they mean they are going straight on. (Heart attack if I'm on the bike!)
Heather
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Seems lane discipline of roundabouts has changed.
When I learnt to drive I was taught to stay in the LH lane unless turning right, now it seems going straight ahead means using the RH lane, I've sent a few people on a round trip doing as I was taught
When I learnt to drive I was taught to stay in the LH lane unless turning right, now it seems going straight ahead means using the RH lane, I've sent a few people on a round trip doing as I was taught
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Left hand lane for first and second exits unless marked otherwise.
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jonbeeza
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Does my head in when people veer out of their lane at roundabouts. For some reason some people do like veering out of lane and getting back in their own lane when straightening up.
Raptor Mike
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I'm a mobile car valeter. I sometimes carry 280 litre of water + all my kit in mt van. You'd think I wouldn't be able to catch up with cars wouldn't you. But I do. Why? Because people drive sooo slowly. 40 everywhere. They hold me up in the 60 (when fully loaded I'm not even doing 60) and then when we get to a village that's 30 they leave me behind.
They think that over 40 isn't safe in the 60 limit, yet think they are good enough drivers to go over 30 in the 30 limits. Grrrr
On another note I ride a motorbike and most drivers pull over to let me past, some don't. I always give a little wave if I can but some bikers don't I've noticed when driving. So people then dont pull in for other bikes. Must be the same with cars
They think that over 40 isn't safe in the 60 limit, yet think they are good enough drivers to go over 30 in the 30 limits. Grrrr
On another note I ride a motorbike and most drivers pull over to let me past, some don't. I always give a little wave if I can but some bikers don't I've noticed when driving. So people then dont pull in for other bikes. Must be the same with cars
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jonbeeza
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I got rid of my bike a couple of years ago, and I do miss riding. But it was great when other vehicles got out of the way to let me pass. I have even had police cars pull over to let me pass ( not traffic cars but bog standard patrol cars) I most definitely made sure they saw my wave of thanks.
Bernie174
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Like it or not, the speed limits are just that, limits, not targets.
If someone decides to drive at a speed lower than that, then that's their affair. It could be for a number of reasons, but you aren't driving their car, and it is not for you to decide what speed they should be driving at.
Personally, I wish people would worry more about their own driving, which in most peoples case is awful, than concern themselves about other peoples.
If someone decides to drive at a speed lower than that, then that's their affair. It could be for a number of reasons, but you aren't driving their car, and it is not for you to decide what speed they should be driving at.
Personally, I wish people would worry more about their own driving, which in most peoples case is awful, than concern themselves about other peoples.
:bang: (rolleyes smiley in here)
Fact is if the people doing 40 in NSL did that in there test they wouldn't have a license. No one is saying go faster than the conditions allow, no one is saying drive beyond your abilities but if you don't feel safe driving a car faster than 40 in dry conditions with good visibility should you even be driving at all?
It's that 'I'll do what I like and you guys suck it up' attitude that ****es every driver off and rightly or wrongly some people will react to it!
Bernie174
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Sorry rssmrry, you are wrong. There's no requirement to drive at a speed limit., End of.
My first line, they are speed limits, not targets is a quote from case law on the subject.
Far from not being able to drive at the maximum speed allowed, some people just don't want too. If thats the case, well I accept you don't like it, its hard luck. There's nothing in road traffic legislation that compls people to drive faster than they want too, it's just the desire of some others.
Those that chose to drive slower are far less of a danger than the 90mph plus outside lane of the motorway 2 feet from the car in front. Like the M3 every morning.
Speed is fine provided, 1 you are trained to drive fast, 2. You are practiced at doing to properly and 3 your car is sufficiently serviceable to drive at that speed. In most cases and nearly every accident I've investigated all 3 of those elements are missing.
My first line, they are speed limits, not targets is a quote from case law on the subject.
Far from not being able to drive at the maximum speed allowed, some people just don't want too. If thats the case, well I accept you don't like it, its hard luck. There's nothing in road traffic legislation that compls people to drive faster than they want too, it's just the desire of some others.
Those that chose to drive slower are far less of a danger than the 90mph plus outside lane of the motorway 2 feet from the car in front. Like the M3 every morning.
Speed is fine provided, 1 you are trained to drive fast, 2. You are practiced at doing to properly and 3 your car is sufficiently serviceable to drive at that speed. In most cases and nearly every accident I've investigated all 3 of those elements are missing.
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There might not be a requirement to drive on the limit but equally you can be pulled and ticketed by the police for driving too slow as it can be equally as dangerous
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I'm not saying they should drive at the speed limit :bang: I'm talking about REASONABLE PROGRESS. 20mph UNDER a speed limit when conditions are good (dry, good visibility, etc) is not reasonable progress.
Every single driver on the road has passed a test so should be safe and competent enough to make reasonable and safe progress.
I'm loathed to waste my time trawling through sources that people will accept so I'm going to bow out, but I'm satisfied that driving slower than is reasonable to IS a hazard to other road users as they WILL frustrate other drivers and (as I said previously) cause them to react.
At the very least failing to make reasonable progress is inconsiderate/careless driving.
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And even more important - capable of stopping quickly.
It is certainly not equally as dangerous as speeding. And what offence would that be? (a real one, not a made up one).
Steve.
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ziggy©
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When they do that I just scoosh my screen wash at them periodically - you can actually see the anger build with every wipe of their windshield
My screenwash is bigger than yours
[YOUTUBE]FPGhzVV9JzM[/YOUTUBE]
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stupar
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I will beg to differ but like Mary I'm going to bow out of this argument.
As said previously you are expected to make reasonable progress in conjunction with limits and conditions etc.
If driving to slow can make you fail your test please feel free to explain why you don't class it as a danger.
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Whilst driving too slowly can be dangerous, I took issue with the notion that it was just as dangerous as speeding.
Speeding is a lot more dangerous than going too slowly.
Steve.
Speeding is a lot more dangerous than going too slowly.
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jonbeeza
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My mate who took their driving test a few years ago, they were telling me they drove at 30MPH in a 40MPH zone, the examiner told him to get up to 40MPH.
That was pretty decent of the examiner we thought, as the examiner could have said nothing, and failed him for not keeping up with the flowing traffic.
He passed without the examiner mentioning anything about it...
MadWoman
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I recently had a tyre blow out and had to make my way home on the motorway on my emergency wheel limited to 50mph. The affected wheel was nearside so not obvious. It was a real eye-opener - I was concentrating like mad on going so slowly, and in spite of the nearly empty M5 I had cars tailgating me, flashing, honking, gesticulating.... having had a real nightmare if a day (the blow-out was just the crowning glory) it led to an exceptionally stressful journey - cars are sometimes going slowly for a reason.
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jonbeeza
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Very good point, I have never liked those stupid space saving spare wheels. I would hate to use one of those wheels as a spare, especially on a motorway at night :|
MadWoman
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I didn't think to check if it was a proper spare wheel when I bought the car - never having had an emergency wheel before it just didn't occur to me, but next time it will and I won't be buying a car without a proper spare wheel.
We were in the way back from Crufts with the dog, and it blew on the M42/M6 junction so we were stuck in a 15ft central reservation between the motorways with a very unhappy dog. Never again!
It has certainly made me think again when I see a car going very slowly on the motorway for no apparent reason.
We were in the way back from Crufts with the dog, and it blew on the M42/M6 junction so we were stuck in a 15ft central reservation between the motorways with a very unhappy dog. Never again!
It has certainly made me think again when I see a car going very slowly on the motorway for no apparent reason.
Although I would agree that there is no compulsion to drive at exactly the speed limit, if you drive so far below the limit then you are causing an obstruction.
I failed my first driving test, because I was driving in a town I did knot know, in very wet conditions. The driving examiner asked me to take the next available turning on the right and I slowed down too much (in his opinion) because I did not know where that turning was.
He failed me for - failure to make due progress
Therefore the way I see it, if you constantly drive so slowly that you are holding up other traffic, then your driving has fallen below the standard which is required, and you should not be driving on the road.
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jonbeeza
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Most driving schools and instructors normally give their pupils lessons in the area of the driving test centres. The examiner uses the same route, well I know me my mates and all my family knew the route.
Did you change your test area at a later date ?
Russ77
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On my mock driving test I had a similar issue pointed out.
I was on a NSL road doing about 45-50MPH, it's fairly narrow and even now I wince when there's an on coming bus/lorry. The instructor basically said I wasn't going fast enough in relation to the speed limit and I would have got a minor fault at least for travelling at that speed.
Since then the speed limit on that road has been reduced to 40MPH
The problem with people driving a lot slower than is possible is that it tends to make other's drive differently and whilst it sounds harsh, if you can't keep up with the "normal" flow of traffic then perhaps you shouldn't be on the road?
My father in law turned 77 on Friday, when I met my wife 3 years ago he was still a very competent and safe driver (he used to drive lorries) but IMO his driving has gone seriously down hill.
We went out for dinner a few weeks ago and he drove us, I don't think he went much over 20mph for the 4-5 miles we travelled, he hesitated at nearly every junction even when there was no other cars in sight and his lane discipline on roundabouts was "different" to say the least.
He also wont go over 50MPH on a motorway as "everthing happens too fast when you go over 50"........ When we went to Drayton Manor last year I made every excuse under the sun why I wasn't going to go in convoy.
We live in Essex and the wife's family lives 7 miles nearer to the M25 than we do..... they left before us, we stopped at South Mimms Services for about 15 mins.... I overtook them about 5 mins after South Mimms and got to Newport Pagnell services about 20mins before them........ I think I'd have hung myself sitting on the M25/M1 at 50mph at 7am on a Sunday morning
It used to be quite common back in the seventies and eighties, to try to get a quicker test by going to a different town. In my case, Maidstone had a long waiting list, so the instructor put me in at Ashford.
In hindsight this was a bad idea, as I had never been there before, and the test took in the town centre. It was also a couple of days after floods, and the examiner made me do an emegency stop on a downhill stretch of road.
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jonbeeza
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I think the reason this arguument is peresisting is the belief that 'reasonable speed' is an absolute.
The person that you believe is driving unreasonably probably believes their speed is reasonable. Who's to say who is correct?
Raptor Mike
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One of my points was that you get people, normally, dare I say it, old folk crawling along at 40 in the NSL. Then when you get to a village and slow to 30 they leave you behind. 40 EVERYWHERE!! They don't seem to care that people have jobs to go to. You could say leave earlier, but sometimes I go to 5-6 different places in a day if I'm doing smaller valets.
Even worse people around here are getting slower. I too often get stuck behind cars on an A road in NSL doing 30-35.
Slow drivers are dangerous. They are inconsiderate and hold people up making people inpatient and overtake, whcih they shouldn't need to do. Like I say, if I can go faster in my van when loaded, safely, why cant they.
Also my Vectra won't go 40 in 5th, I have to go down to 4th. This costs me money and polutes the environment.
if you must drive slowly, get out the way of others.
Sorry to rant but this is a subject that really gets my goat.
Even worse people around here are getting slower. I too often get stuck behind cars on an A road in NSL doing 30-35.
Slow drivers are dangerous. They are inconsiderate and hold people up making people inpatient and overtake, whcih they shouldn't need to do. Like I say, if I can go faster in my van when loaded, safely, why cant they.
Also my Vectra won't go 40 in 5th, I have to go down to 4th. This costs me money and polutes the environment.
if you must drive slowly, get out the way of others.
Sorry to rant but this is a subject that really gets my goat.
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Really? My pet hate are clowns on motorbikes who treat the a roads up here as private race tracks. I do not give them an inch of road or an ounce more consideration than any other road user. If they cannot hold their side of the road, then it ain`t my problem,and laugh at every new shrine that appears at the roadside.
LCPete
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Can't say what I really think don't want to get banned but please rethink your last sentence!
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jonbeeza
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I was thinking about this thread yesterday morning when I had to go someplace. I had plenty of time to get to my destination, as I set off in plenty of time.
I was just testing out, how practical it was to stick to the speed limit. I started off in a 30MPH zone and I stuck to 30 dead on, now how slow does 30 feel when not many stick to it? People where trying to get past me, and if I did stick to that speed, I would have been hindering most of the traffic behind me, either I speed up or try and let others past!
I got to a 40MPH zone and I stuck to 40 dead on, other road users wanted to to go even faster!
I finally got on a road that had a 60MPH sign, I did my best to stick to it but still people wanted to tailgate and try and make me go faster!
I suppose in my post when I said something on the lines that I drove slow, I did not really mean that in a 30MPH zone I drove something like 20MPH. But rather I tried sticking to the speed limit.
It's just that when I have a passenger in the car with me, they will say why are you driving so slow, I will reply I am sticking to the speed limit. They seem to think about 10MPH over is the norm, and to be honest they are probably right.
I was just testing out, how practical it was to stick to the speed limit. I started off in a 30MPH zone and I stuck to 30 dead on, now how slow does 30 feel when not many stick to it? People where trying to get past me, and if I did stick to that speed, I would have been hindering most of the traffic behind me, either I speed up or try and let others past!
I got to a 40MPH zone and I stuck to 40 dead on, other road users wanted to to go even faster!
I finally got on a road that had a 60MPH sign, I did my best to stick to it but still people wanted to tailgate and try and make me go faster!
I suppose in my post when I said something on the lines that I drove slow, I did not really mean that in a 30MPH zone I drove something like 20MPH. But rather I tried sticking to the speed limit.
It's just that when I have a passenger in the car with me, they will say why are you driving so slow, I will reply I am sticking to the speed limit. They seem to think about 10MPH over is the norm, and to be honest they are probably right.
srichards
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I don't mind clowns on motorbikes as they are the countries organ donors. Without them being stupid many more others wouldn't get kidneys, hearts and such like!
Car speedos can also over read by up to 10%. It's worth checking.
Followed some idiot yesterday that was a first class incompetent mimser. 30 in a big wide 50. 25-30 in narrow 30 nearly hitting another car as they didn't look when negotiating parked car. 30/35 in a 60. Even I overtook so they were seriously slow.
If a parent is suddenly doing 20 and can't cope with motorways at above 50 then its time to tell them they need some tuition or to hang up their keys.
I've also noticed some cars have rear view and door mirrors with different magnifications so you can think someone is right up behind when they're not and they give an inconsistent distance.
Car speedos can also over read by up to 10%. It's worth checking.
Followed some idiot yesterday that was a first class incompetent mimser. 30 in a big wide 50. 25-30 in narrow 30 nearly hitting another car as they didn't look when negotiating parked car. 30/35 in a 60. Even I overtook so they were seriously slow.
If a parent is suddenly doing 20 and can't cope with motorways at above 50 then its time to tell them they need some tuition or to hang up their keys.
I've also noticed some cars have rear view and door mirrors with different magnifications so you can think someone is right up behind when they're not and they give an inconsistent distance.
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jonbeeza
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Yes I do agree that you do get clowns on motorbikes, I have seen plenty. I have also seen plenty of other category of drivers, who are also clowns.
I know plenty will say the elderly are pains, while I am sure there are loads of older folk who say it is the youngsters who are the real problem. Again us fellas will say nope it is the women drivers who are the real pain, while the women will disagree and say it's the blokes who are dangerous. Car drivers will say, taxis who suddenly veer of course just to get that next fare, are dangerous. While the taxis I am sure will blame the buses for hogging the road!!
I suppose at the end of the day, we can all be guilty just as much as the next road user. Oh I forgot to mention cyclists, but there again I forgot to mention wagon drivers etc etc ..........
LCPete
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dont you both care that they will be someones father or son !
I have been riding motorcycles safely for a very long time and most bike accidents are caused by other road users , too many are killed by thier own stupidity I agree but being glad that someone is dead is so wrong
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jonbeeza
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I have been riding motorcycles safely for a very long time and most bike accidents are caused by other road users , too many are killed by thier own stupidity I agree but wishing someone dead is so wrong
I have been riding bikes since I was about eighteen, and I am now fifty. I remember when I was in my twenties I did ride a little too quick etc etc. I went out for a ride one day only to come across a high speed smash with a bike and a car, both bike rider and car driver were killed. It knocked me sick and I was in shock all day. Maybe to have said goodbye and see you after, to a loved one and go and drive off to work etc, only not to return.
As I have gotten older, I have become more aware how valuable life is, and I now take as much care as possible when out on the roads. Not just for myself, but for other road users also :|
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