Why do some Wildlife photographers feel the need to tell porkies ?

Simonhi

Simonhi

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Maybe I havn't worded this quite correctly but clearly these shots are amazing, but also quite clearly not taken as wild images which is what is being claimed in the article and also here. If they are wild then how is the photographer still alive ?

Why claim ...

Jonathan said: 'At first I was quite nervous being so close to the animals, as I did not know what to expect and they are wild.

'It's a big adrenaline rush. When you're so close you can see the drool dripping onto their jaws and you can't believe it.

'By far the most nerve-racking animal was the black leopard, which made me fear for my life and I thought it could attack at any moment.'

Thankfully he, and his camera, survived to tell the tale.

Off course it is very possible that the photgrapher went here to take some of his shots.

Animals with Individual Rates for Single Sessions

Photo sessions are one hour long. These animals are trained to perform behavior-on-command. Additional time is pro-rated.

Individual Rate Species**:
Grizzly Bear. . . . . . . . . . . . . . $500/session

I am not complaining about the images being taken of trained animals but why try to pass them off as being taken in the wild :shrug:, does it not diminish truly wild images taken by other phtographers ?
 
What are you talking about? I'm sure there are dozens of wild Siberian tigers roaming Montana :P
 
mid_gen said:
What are you talking about? I'm sure there are dozens of wild Siberian tigers roaming Montana :P
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And the African Lion in the snow is just to die for ;)

There is a lot of fuss about these articles and photos, for the same reasons you mention, also some Pro photographers are not impressed ! Is the same thing that happened with the Wildlife Photographer of the Year winner as well ! Just making things up to get that different shot and make a name for yourself ! or taking the easy route as its more commonly known lol
 
It amazes me that he thought people are so thick that they wouldn't notice the fact that most of these animals don't bloody live in Montana, or is it a case of the newspapers sexing up the story?

Andy
 
This could open a can of worms.....:naughty:

I prefer my wildlife shots to be of wild animals,not trained or captive.But that is probably just me.
 
The Daily Mail are no longer accepting comments...

Perhaps the next photo should be
035ostrich_468x538.jpg
 
He's not even a 'wildlife photographer'. His missus bought him the camera two years ago to photograph their newborn!

It's pretty shameful but not an unexpected story from the Daily Fail! :(
 
I would bet that the guy was open and honest about how he took the photos and the Daily Mail omitted certain details from their write-up.
 
The Matt said:
I would bet that the guy was open and honest about how he took the photos and the Daily Mail omitted certain details from their write-up.
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He's a currency trader. In the current crisis are we trusting them again now? $500 a time to shoot the animals he's obviously gone on a decent holiday to do this.

I'm now looking forward to the write up when I go on the TP big cats shoot next month... "Byker grabs a stunning shot only inches from certain death from a big cat. At no point was a huge fence in the way of these captive animals..."
 
Byker28i said:
He's a currency trader. In the current crisis are we trusting them again now? $500 a time to shoot the animals he's obviously gone on a decent holiday to do this.
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I trust them more than I trust the tabloids, but that doesn't really say much...
 
Daily Fail busted again. What a rag of a publication.

You watch them squeal when they realise that the ConLib coalition is less Tory than Labour were :D
 
IanC_UK said:
Yep they are stunning photos, but all captive, where the articles and him are claiming they are wild ! Would love to see a Snow Leopard in the wild, let alone photograph one !
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Me too.

I think it will be some sort of reserve/zoo type setting where the animals are used to people.
 
On his website he says "some of the images here were taken in controlled conditions", seems pretty fair and above board to me.

The fact that a bunch of scumbag journos take the photos and make up a story is not his fault...
 
fracster said:
This could open a can of worms.....:naughty:

I prefer my wildlife shots to be of wild animals,not trained or captive.But that is probably just me.
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IanC_UK said:
Yep they are stunning photos, but all captive, where the articles and him are claiming they are wild ! Would love to see a Snow Leopard in the wild, let alone photograph one !
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Define wild; not tamed or domesticated or cultivated

From what I can gather, these animals are not tamed or domesticated or cultivated, therefore wild. You could say contained on a reserve is not wild, but what about all those animals contained on an island, are they not wild either?

THere are far too many interpretations on this that could easily open many a can of worms or debate. The worst bit of it all is that there are journo's throwing a spin on this to give a potential deception which, anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that these are not 'natural enviroment' wild animal shots, however they are shots of wild animals, and therefore "wildlife" pictures that they see. All interpretation I'm afraid.
 
Using your argument, the Wildlife Photographer of the Year panel were wrong to remove the Wolf jumping the gate photo from top prize and ban the photographer for life from the competition then ?

All captive animals are domesticated to some degree, because they become more used to seeing people on a daily or hourly basis, this isnt the case with animals on an island ! Doesnt mean they are less dangerous, but they are easy to locate and easier to take photos of. His comments about trekking up a mountain in snow to locate the animals, is actually trekking through a zoo enclosure in snow with a zoo keeper to make sure he doesnt do anything silly to get attacked.

And yes it is a can of worms, i think ill walk away from it now !
 
IanC_UK said:
Yep they are stunning photos, but all captive, where the articles and him are claiming they are wild ! Would love to see a Snow Leopard in the wild, let alone photograph one !
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2008 wildlife photographer of the year comp, 10 months putting down a number of remote operated cameras to get the pic
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats...s/wpy/photo.do?category=54&group=4&photo=2450

Sadlybrokeboy said:
To be fair - if you look at his website he does say that some of his shots "may" have been taken under controlled conditions...like most of them!! ;)
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Even his British ones look captive/trained animals. Do you normally get owls in daylight?

Icee said:
Me too.

I think it will be some sort of reserve/zoo type setting where the animals are used to people.
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In the original post it's assumed he went here to a dedicated place with trained animals inMontana. http://www.animalsofmontana.com/still_photo.html


Animals with Individual Rates for Single Sessions:
Photo sessions are one hour long. These animals are trained to perform behavior-on-command. Additional time is pro-rated.

Individual Rate Species**:
African Lion. . . . . . . . . . . . . . $500/session
Grizzly Bear. . . . . . . . . . . . . . $500/session
Snow Leopard . . . . . . . . . . . $500/session
SiberianTiger. . . . . . . . . . . . . $500/session
Specialized Wolf. . . . . . . . . ..$400/session
Black Leopard. . . . . . . . . . . . .$500/session
European Lynx . . . . . . . . . . . .$500/Session

Primary Species**:
Black Bear, Gray Wolves, Mountain Lion, Canadian Lynx, Bobcat, Red Fox, Pine Marten, Badger, Porcupine, Cross Fox, Fisher, Golden Retriever. . . .$200.00/session

Secondary Species**:
Raccoon, Skunk . . . . . . . . . $150.00/session

**$100.00 fee per session for Mother and baby interaction in addition to the animal rate.

I can't see lions and tigers being natural in the Rockies. You'd have thought some journalist would have spotted that :bang:
 
Dear Daily Mail

"I got up at 6am to walk my dog hunt these dangerous creatures.
It's a big adrenaline rush. When you're so close you can see the drool dripping onto their jaws and you can't believe it. It made me fear for my life and I thought it could attack at any moment..."

120592671.jpg

118383659.jpg




Well, she hadn't been fed at that point. :D
 
Golden retriever?

Really? $200/hour?
 
ka$h said:
Define wild; not tamed or domesticated or cultivated

From what I can gather, these animals are not tamed or domesticated or cultivated, therefore wild. You could say contained on a reserve is not wild, but what about all those animals contained on an island, are they not wild either?
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Assuming these were taken at the animalsofmontana location they advertise on their website that

Our grizzlies love to perform whether for still photography or video. They will amaze you by running towards the camera, standing on command, snarling viciously or posing cute for the camera.
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Jonathan Griffiths....................Hang your head in shame.:nono:
 
zeitghost said:
Photographing golden retrievers is an extremely risky and dangerous business - being slobbered to death or whipped with an excessively waggy tail is not the way you'd want to go.
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haha I Lol'd.

Lions.. in the snow.. in America.. what will they think of next!
 
To be fair it does say they were taken in a wildlife reserve - it's the newspaper who are trying to sex it up as usual. Wildlife park or not, it would still be scary being so close!
 
zeitghost said:
Photographing golden retrievers is an extremely risky and dangerous business - being slobbered to death or whipped with an excessively waggy tail is not the way you'd want to go.
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That made me laugh. It's all fairly funny, the guy may have thought at the time that he was in dire danger but let's face it, he probably could've stuck his hand in there and wiggled it around for a bit without repercussions.
 
Don't know why people find this so amazing, even many of the british wildlife shots you see in magazines are captive animals
 
I must first apologise for not reading the entire thread.

But as a photographer with a passion for wildlife photography I think its very sad and soon enough this sort of article and the lying wildlife tog slogan will be associated with all wildlife togs.

Which angers me because not all of us are like it. :( If I show anyone my work I tell them if its captive or not or have an explanation of the photo beside the pic if needed.
 
Good luck to the bloke. he did not lie and he has got far more "exposure" than most of us will ever have. I just think that many comments etc here are from people who have never been "involved" with a story in a Paper. You provide facts or lies and they do a grand job of coming up with their own version!

I did a story with the Times many years ago that involved the security services etc. The conversation i had with the reporter after ,was "heated" to say the least . It was about 20% what i told them and 80% made up to make the story sexier .
 
Hi

We were faced with a big bull elephant in Kenya, he just stood in the middle of the track snorting whilsts his heard passed over the road

"Julie said his he gonna charge us "!!!

I said ! "I shouldnt think so we've already paid"

No really it is true about the elephant, he was about 15yrds away from us. I was a bit worried, but it was a new experience, and was unsure of him, he could easy over power our tiny jeep
 
No i am sorry a lion would not just come up to Jonathon's camera like that in the wild, he will be protecting his pride, which in this case the photographer would not be able to out run nor would he even get that close.

And a bear? apparently rearing up to Jonathon? Ha i suppose he just started to laugh came back down and patted Jonathon on the back?

Okay maybe i am wrong, what sort of lens was these taken on? 400mm i dunno but getting any closer than that to them beasts...............:bonk::cuckoo:
 
London luke said:
Good luck to the bloke. he did not lie and he has got far more "exposure" than most of us will ever have. I just think that many comments etc here are from people who have never been "involved" with a story in a Paper. You provide facts or lies and they do a grand job of coming up with their own version!
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:agree: It's selling papers and getting website hits for the media involved! Truth and fact is irrelevant :shrug: Those are excellent shots and worthy of publication inmho and I would also argue that they are 'wild' animals even if they are captive in some animal park in Montana! .... How many here would really have the balls to get that close to those animals? ... Or perhaps he set up a remote capture / trigger :)
 
Splog said:
:agree: It's selling papers and getting website hits for the media involved! Truth and fact is irrelevant :shrug: Those are excellent shots and worthy of publication inmho and I would also argue that they are 'wild' animals even if they are captive in some animal park in Montana! .... How many here would really have the balls to get that close to those animals? ... Or perhaps he set up a remote capture / trigger :)
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They really aren't wild by any stretch of the imagination. It says on their website that they are tamed and trained to perform tricks on command, that isn't wild at all.

Now if they were in a reserve where humans didn't interact with them, besides being an invisible protector from poachers, then that would be wild and I certainly wouldn't want to use anything less than a 600 to be quite honest :D
 
Coldeh said:
They really aren't wild by any stretch of the imagination. It says on their website that they are tamed and trained to perform tricks on command, that isn't wild at all.

Now if they were in a reserve where humans didn't interact with them, besides being an invisible protector from poachers, then that would be wild and I certainly wouldn't want to use anything less than a 600 to be quite honest :D
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I seriously doubt that a Lion can be 'tamed' sufficiently to prevent it from eating someone's head, if it chooses ;)
 
Splog said:
I seriously doubt that a Lion can be 'tamed' sufficiently to prevent it from eating someone's head, if it chooses ;)
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I've seen lions do strange things after being trained. I believe if he would have hit it a few times it might have gotten annoyed and bitten him, but according to the article he was fairly scared and so probably wouldn't have dared.

I'm also willing to bet that the keepers let him stroke the animal on top of taking their pictures. The animals in those images are just as wild as my pet dog, in fact I believe my dog poses more of a threat (Alsation who's a fair bit boisterous)
 
Personally I just don't like the way it is protrayed, either by the Daily Mail or through the photographers site.

I read an article recently by Andy Rouse writing for AP magazine and he summarised that although many wildlife photographers do it, most are honest, or at least not quite so "economic" with the truth.

If, as a photographer, I decided to take pictures of captive trained animals I would make them so good as to make it worth while, in fairness much like these images are. But, when punting the images to the media I would not go on about 05.30am starts to track the subject and then "stand my ground" when faced with a fully grown grizzly, tiger or lion playing in the snow with a freshly coiffered mane :-)

I think this type of image tells us nothing new about the subject species, whereas most wildlife photographers want to capture an animal in it's natural habitat behaving as it normally would, maybe in the hope that a new behavoural trait might be discovered. A recent example of the top of my head would be the lions hunting elephants as seen in Planet Earth a few years ago.

I think this type of true wildlife recording beit image or film is far more a worthwhile document of the species.
 
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