Why did I get such slow shutter speeds?!

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Duncan.F

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Duncan
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At a gig last night, sure lighting was dire but I was shooting at F2.8/3200 most of the time. When I had a quick glance I was getting 1/8 up to 1/30 a lot of the time with consequent blur. When I looked at the shot at home the light didn't look that bad and I wondered why.

I shot in Tv mode, nearly all 3200 although a few at the beginning were 1600, centre spot focus on the face and spot metering. Same old settings but can't see why so low a shutter speed. maybe the lights were of lower intensity than I thought? Here's a few examples. Straight out of camera, no crop or PP.

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Ah, I have it 'safety mode'. So it is set on 1/250, if ther light is good it will shoot up to a max of 250, if its really good the apeture will increase a stop or three. If the light is poor it will take at a lower and lower speed.
Its a setting i have used for ages!
 
If you were shooting in Tv mode the shutter speed should be whatever you set it to be.

As you mention a set aperture and ISO I presume you've made a mistake in your post and you mean Av. It looks extremely dim there to me so I think you've just misjudged the level of lighting.
Try keeping an eye on the shutter speeds that the camera is picking in the viewfinder (it shows the chosen speed when you half press the shutter) or shoot manual so you know exactly what the camera is doing at all times. If you use any metering automation at all then at some stage it will try and do something you don't want it to do but you can see it happening in the viewfinder to catch it.
 
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TV Mode ? - that would mean you were in control of the shuuter speed.

If you wanted to stick at f2.8 and let the camera decide the shutter speed then shouldn't you have been in AV mode ?
 
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Mmm shooting in manual at a gig is not an option. There is so little time to adjust settings, too easy to miss a moment! This setting I use has always worked well before, the camera tries to take at 1/250 if it can, if good spot comes on it may shoot at 1/250 F5.6 for example. If you shoot in AV then you pick your apeture which will be as low as possible and you limit DOF.
 
I have always shot AV at gigs, lowest aperture (f/2.8 or 1.8) and between ISO 1600 and 3200.
I cant see the logic behind your method, but if you say it works for you... Just obviously didnt this time!
 
Shoot manual, expose for the lights (which will usually be at around 1/125, f/1.8, ISO1600). Your meter is being tricked into exposing for the background.
 
I am at Pete Doherty tommorow, so assuming we get the first three. I will shoot the first my method, the second in AV and the last in manual. I will publish the results!
 
Ed Sutton said:
What's wrong with manual and auto ISO? :thinking:
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To achieve what end?

Can't see the point of that in that scenario - I do use that, but not for that.

Auto ISO will give you the same possible random metering as the OP had, because its still doing an exposure calculation.
 
As opposed to shutter priority?
 
Well, yes, but unless you have something like a 35mm f1.2 then you will be shooting wide open anyhow...

My main point really was that auto-iso is still reliant on metering, which is actually what was going wrong originally.

Manual exposure probably still is the right way to go, plus shooting in raw to allow for a margin of error.

With the "three songs and you are gone", you haven't exactly got long to get your shots. I'd admire those that turn in consistantly belting gig shots because its massive pressure to perform AND in difficult photographic conditions.
 
Auto-ISO on Manual on the 5D2 just sets the ISO to 400. Ye, go figure!

I can see the reasoning in your method, but you're never going to get close to 1/250th in a gig so not sure it's the best approach! As others have said you're likely to be shooting wide open most of the time anyway, so you could go with Av at F2.8 at ISO3200. You could try going with ISO6400 if it's *really* dark - better noise than blur? :)

Work has blocked your examples so I don't know how well they're exposed, but I would imagine a gig to be predominantly dark with some relatively smaller areas of much brighter light. As such, I can imagine that the metering is trying to get the dark/black areas up to mid-gray so it may be choosing a longer shutter speed, and overexposing the scene compared to what you saw. If so, you could dial your exposure compensation down -1 or -2 for a shorter shutter speed. Apologies if this doesn't apply and the exposure is right!
 
As gig photography is something I've recently gotten into, I have to say the comment 'Manual shooting is not an option' is an odd one, and will probably be holding you back.

I only shoot in manual at gigs, as it's the only way for me choose exactly what the camera's doing.
 
Interesting comments, thank you! Problem with manual is that the light levels change so rapidly and dramatically with spots coming on and off it would be very difficult to adjust exposure. Say shooting wide open at 2.8 you still have to adjust for light and there is a real chance of losing a good shot.
All the stuff on my flickr is by the Tv method so it rarely lets me down, however it did with Katy B and I think it was largely because she was wearing black clothing against a black background..... maybe!

I will give manual a whirl and shoot in RAW.

Cheers,

Dunc
 
DazJW said:
I'm sure people managed fine when all cameras were manual and didn't even have screens to check your images/histogram on.
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Hmmm did they though? I don't think the same lighting challenges were there for shooting a Glen Miller concert vs a "modern" stage show with massive variable lighting rigs.

What you could look at for a comparison is something like Ross Halfin's 80's onwards rock gig photography - he's the God of rock photography as far as I am concerned:

http://www.rosshalfin.com/

I'd be interested to understand his kit over the years and his technique :thumbs:

Clearly though there has to be a trick to it, probably in his case its down to understanding the light conditions at various points of the gig maybe? He doesn't just rock up and start shooting...
 
I find that listening to the music gives you a good idea for when that 'moment' pops up. So before shooting a gig, familiarise yourself with their music beforehand.
 
I'd definitely say Manual is the way forward. It's fairly simple to adjust your exposure as necessary on the fly, no matter how much the light changes. With the huge advantage we have now of being able to physically see how well the images is exposed on the back of the camera, it's much easier to take a test exposure, chimp and see if it's any good, and then alter accordingly.

Fair play if you have a system in place that works, but it's handy knowing your kit well enough that you can always use full-manual mode as a back-up.
 
Really appreciated reading this thread-I've done a few gigs in my time, and only really got it right at the last few. Interesting to read the comments about shooting in manual. It's something I've avoided so far, but that's probably more out of laziness than anything! Usually I stick with AV.

Just need another gig to crop up now so I can have a play!
 
I've not shot gigs with manual, but have shot pitlane type action during night races.

Its very different to using auto metering - you really get to keep so much more of the atmosphere and real life feel to it, rather than the camera trying to make things grey.

And its not *that* difficult - not as difficult as say trying for manual focus on a live action subject with a shallow depth of field and no marks - now that is difficult!
 
I think there is something wrong with the camera! Took a load of shots in various modes and in it appears that the sensor [?] is misreading the light. Most of the shots were overexposed in fairly decent light but the shutter speed was down to 1/20- 1/40th. A mate was shooting in the same light at 1/125 and 3.5.

I shot in manual 2.8 1600 but to get 'correct' exposure according to the cameras metering I was back down to 1/30 or thereabouts. Same thing happening in Av mode. I will post up some shots later.

Any ideas anyone?
 
Ignore the meter - its telling you what it thinks and to its formula for a "correctly exposed picture" based on the light levels in the area of the frame that you have it set to.

Its really easy for a number of things to fool the metering.

Do the images look like you want them too? Thats whats important!
 
Duncan.F said:
I think there is something wrong with the camera! Took a load of shots in various modes and in it appears that the sensor [?] is misreading the light. Most of the shots were overexposed in fairly decent light but the shutter speed was down to 1/20- 1/40th. A mate was shooting in the same light at 1/125 and 3.5.

I shot in manual 2.8 1600 but to get 'correct' exposure according to the cameras metering I was back down to 1/30 or thereabouts. Same thing happening in Av mode. I will post up some shots later.

Any ideas anyone?
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What metering mode were you using?

it sounds like you're using evaluative and its overexposing to bring out the details in the very dark background
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
What metering mode were you using?

it sounds like you're using evaluative and its overexposing to bring out the details in the very dark background
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Morning,
I always use spot metering. I did some test shots with the support act and using spot metering there were over exposed and all around 1/30 to 1/50. What is really odd is that I have done about a hundred gigs and this has never been a problem before!

I did try AV and manual but was getting pretty much the same results. Oddly tho some did expose correctly using the same settings at 1/80 to 1/160 which is about what I expected for the lighting.

Will post up some examples later.

Cheers, Dunc
 
Duncan.F said:
What is really odd is that I have done about a hundred gigs and this has never been a problem before!

Cheers, Dunc
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Worth going back through all your basic settings methodically to check that you have not inadvertently adjusted something such as your EV +/-, or something deeper in the menu system.

My first thought is always what have I done, not what has the camera done to cause the issue ... 99% of the time it is down to me.
 
blade_922 said:
Would a flash gun give good results?
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It would!! If only I were allowed to use one. Most gigs photographers are not allowed to use them. Always a bit odd as most people in the front row have point and shoot flash cameras. The only exceptions are when bands use strobe lighting.

Cheers,

Dunc
 
String said:
Try popping out in daylight and see if the camera seems to behave normally, i.e not overexposing.
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Yes good idea, I thought I would set up a little test at home in 'controlled' conditions and then repeat them with my 1d mkiii and see if there are any significant differences.

Cheers,

Dunc
 
I'm just wondering if it's something to do with the metering cell, never seeing any daylight, only really being asked to meter predominantly black scenes.........

I don't know, but after all they are electrically powered whether by battery or selenium cell, and maybe there'e some kind of a memory effect.

Someone will be along to shoot me down shortly I expect.....
 
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