Why can't I learn about photography?

Astraeus

Astraeus

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Ciaran
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I am no idiot. But, for the life of me, I cannot get my head around this 'hobby' of mine and not only is it a continuing source of frustration for me, I now think it's beginning to taint my enjoyment of photography.

I was a P&Ser until 2008 and, upon purchasing my D40, I embarked on reading through websites, books and forums to learn how best to use my camera. I just about got my head around the Golden Triangle of aperture, shutter speed and ISO and played around with my camera to see what different settings could achieve.

However I'm now reading about how to take sunset shots, silhouettes, photos through haze and I'm baffled. I don't get this 'exposure compensation', I'm still puzzled by light metering and using my ND grads sends my head into a spin - I can't tell the difference when they're on and I don't know how to compensate for them (metering off the ground or sky?). White balance is the bane of my life - I have never used a grey card in my life and wouldn't know how to use it - I've had plenty of situations where I think it'd be appropriate but I just can't get my head around the process for custom WB.

I feel like I'm being held back by my lack of knowledge on how to photograph as I've taken shots which should have worked and which I think would have worked on a P&S, only to find they're nothing once I get them home. :bang:

At the moment I'm here with all my gear - polarisers, welding glass filters, ND grads and I just don't know how to get the best out of any of it. In fact, I look at my D40 and know there are a million things I've not got it to do yet.

How long did it take others to get into the hobby and know the workings of photography inside out? What were the best resources for you? :help: At the moment, my enjoyment of photography is coming from seeing people's photos on here. As much as I wish I could achieve similar results, I'm beginning to think that's a pipe dream.

It is so disillusioning that, no matter how hard I try to grasp these concepts, they still elude me. :thinking: :thumbsdown:
 
Have you read "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson?
 
I loved photography and owned a P&S up until a couple of years back when I invested in a sony a300, and thats when i learned photography properly. i think a few practices showing depth of field and shutter speed etc would be best.

shutter, aperture and iso are really the key things you need to know, its like an equation.

http://digital-photography-school.com/learning-exposure-in-digital-photography

this should help.
 
It sounds like you're getting too complicated with sunsets and the like before you've even learnt the basics first. Very simple way to get started is:

Lowest ISO (100/200)
Small Aperture (F11 - F22)
Slow shutter speed.
The 2 pods (Tripod and IPod :D)

Or, to go even simpler, choose Aperture Priority and let the camera choose the shutter for you.

Then, decide if you really need those grads/wielding jobbies/etc. I haven't used one yet, and my shots are somewhat acceptable.


Oh... also, shoot in raw. Much better control over the exposure if you want afterwards...

Mainly, just get out there and enjoy taking the shots... don't overcomplicate it. When you start doing that you go out trying 400 new things and you haven't learnt how to master 1 of those yet.
 
PsiFox said:
Have you read "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson?
Click to expand...

Yes. It was the first book I read on the subject. I didn't much engage with his style of writing though.

mastertrinity said:
I loved photography and owned a P&S up until a couple of years back when I invested in a sony a300, and thats when i learned photography properly. i think a few practices showing depth of field and shutter speed etc would be best.

shutter, aperture and iso are really the key things you need to know, its like an equation.

http://digital-photography-school.com/learning-exposure-in-digital-photography

this should help.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll have a look at that site.

karmagarda said:
It sounds like you're getting too complicated with sunsets and the like before you've even learnt the basics first. Very simple way to get started is:

Lowest ISO (100/200)
Small Aperture (F11 - F22)
Slow shutter speed.
The 2 pods (Tripod and IPod :D)

Or, to go even simpler, choose Aperture Priority and let the camera choose the shutter for you.

Then, decide if you really need those grads/wielding jobbies/etc. I haven't used one yet, and my shots are somewhat acceptable.


Oh... also, shoot in raw. Much better control over the exposure if you want afterwards...

Mainly, just get out there and enjoy taking the shots... don't overcomplicate it. When you start doing that you go out trying 400 new things and you haven't learnt how to master 1 of those yet.
Click to expand...

I've been shooting in RAW and, I'll admit it, it's brought some love back to photography as I've been getting nice results but I'm still not able to cope with challenging situations (the photos from Dubrovnik on my Flickr could have been brilliant but I can't deal with haze or bright sunshine). But I'd love to be able to get results out of camera.

I agree with what you're saying about over-complicating things. I guess I need to start over and get my head around ISO, shutter speed, aperture and then build from that.
 
Have you read your manual?

have a look at langfords basic photography which is a much better book than "understanding exposure"
 
Hi Astraeus

I agree, I think you trying to take on so much all at once it would make anybody's mind go into overwhelm.

Try and pick once aspect of photography at a time and get really good at it until it is natural for you. Then pick another.

Have you tried Scott Kelby's THE DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY BOOK - How to shoot your photos like the pros!

He has three books in the series. His style is witty and straight to the point. Doesn't overload you with theory, just tells you what settings for what problems.

Until you've learnt it all (which I'm guessing is a lifetime's work), don't get down if you walk into a difficult situation, it is difficult for everyone.

Hope this helps

Steve
 
Perhaps the stuff you're trying to shoot is out of your league. It only just recently occurred to me that pretty much the only thing I can take a half decent photo of is urban dilapidation. Anything else I try - landscapes, animals, still life, people - usually turns out complete horse poo. So now I just stick to shooting what I can actually do... mainly urban stuff, I'd like to get into candids though as I think I can pull off people photography, too.
 
Astraeus,
Sounds like you have got far too ahead of youself.

I think you need to forget (for now) your grads, welding glass etc. and go back to basics:-

ISO
shutter speed
aperture

Unless you have a thorough grasp of those and how they interact to give the desired exposure then there will always be a very inhibiting black hole in your knowledge.

Cannot find the website tonight so perhaps someone can help.
There are sites that allow you to interact with onscreen camera controls and they demonstrate the effect on exposure, picture sharpness etc of altering the various controls.

Get these 3 things above understood thoroughly and you'll find that all the other controls on your (complex) camera are mostly little conveniences that you can successfully take perfect pictures without using.
 
As a few have already said, shoot RAW. That takes White Balance out of the equation, leaving one less thing for you to worry about when your shooting.

I've been into photography for 4 years, and I'm still learning. I sort of learnt back to front. I was given a D70, and started playing. Then I read up on what the things were, like ISO, shutter speed etc, then put it all together.

I think we all feel like this at times. Even last week I dialed in all my settings I thought I needed for a shot, when I looked at it, it looked all wrong. But thats all about learning.

I've just had a look at your Flickr page, and looking at your photo's, they're pretty damn good.
 
At the moment I'm here with all my gear - polarisers, welding glass filters, ND grads and I just don't know how to get the best out of any of it.

D40 relative newcomer too... you're rushing it IMO
put ALL your stuff in a box and think about "what do I do today"

then take the D40 and only what you need to achieve todays shot
landscape = tripod, ISO 200, WB = landscape [saturated colour], f5.6 say for sharpness
blue sky? = polariser - dont bother with ND grads yet. take lots and review b4 choosing another subject - dont jump around

there is a Ken Rockwell article on setting up the D40 "here"
I set my EV to -0.3 as it gives better colours
 
POAH said:
Have you read your manual?

have a look at langfords basic photography which is a much better book than "understanding exposure"
Click to expand...

Thank you for the recommendation. I'll head to my university library to see if it's available or else nip off to Amazon.

stevedunster said:
Hi Astraeus

I agree, I think you trying to take on so much all at once it would make anybody's mind go into overwhelm.

Try and pick once aspect of photography at a time and get really good at it until it is natural for you. Then pick another.

Have you tried Scott Kelby's THE DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY BOOK - How to shoot your photos like the pros!

He has three books in the series. His style is witty and straight to the point. Doesn't overload you with theory, just tells you what settings for what problems.

Until you've learnt it all (which I'm guessing is a lifetime's work), don't get down if you walk into a difficult situation, it is difficult for everyone.

Hope this helps

Steve
Click to expand...

I had looked at Kelby's books as they appeared to be the best suited to me. I have one at my library but it has been out for a couple of months now so it might just be the case that I need to buy it. Certainly no harm in trying something different to Bryan Peterson.

trencheel303 said:
Perhaps the stuff you're trying to shoot is out of your league. It only just recently occurred to me that pretty much the only thing I can take a half decent photo of is urban dilapidation. Anything else I try - landscapes, animals, still life, people - usually turns out complete horse poo. So now I just stick to shooting what I can actually do... mainly urban stuff, I'd like to get into candids though as I think I can pull off people photography, too.
Click to expand...

That's very true. I think it's all your faults though. You put up such cracking shots of silky water, waterfalls, sunsets and such that I can't help but want to replicate them! :lol:

arclight said:
Astraeus,
Sounds like you have got far too ahead of youself.

I think you need to forget (for now) your grads, welding glass etc. and go back to basics:-

ISO
shutter speed
aperture

Unless you have a thorough grasp of those and how they interact to give the desired exposure then there will always be a very inhibiting black hole in your knowledge.

Cannot find the website tonight so perhaps someone can help.
There are sites that allow you to interact with onscreen camera controls and they demonstrate the effect on exposure, picture sharpness etc of altering the various controls.

Get these 3 things above understood thoroughly and you'll find that all the other controls on your (complex) camera are mostly little conveniences that you can successfully take perfect pictures without using.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I think the general consensus is that I need to go 'back to basics'. Once my exams are out of the way (this course has been the reason I've had so little time to get out-and-about to play with the camera), I'll be out non-stop with the D40.

Olly_K said:
As a few have already said, shoot RAW. That takes White Balance out of the equation, leaving one less thing for you to worry about when your shooting.

I've been into photography for 4 years, and I'm still learning. I sort of learnt back to front. I was given a D70, and started playing. Then I read up on what the things were, like ISO, shutter speed etc, then put it all together.

I think we all feel like this at times. Even last week I dialed in all my settings I thought I needed for a shot, when I looked at it, it looked all wrong. But thats all about learning.

I've just had a look at your Flickr page, and looking at your photo's, they're pretty damn good.
Click to expand...

Thank you. :D I'm learning back to front like you are really. I didn't realise I could completely re-do white balance on the PC if I shoot in RAW - terrific news! :thumbs:

Tirpitz said:
this is an easy to use learning tool

http://www.kamerasimulator.se/eng/?page_id=2

have a play with that :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I guess that's what arclight was referring to!

I think I'm going to go into my Lowepro bag tonight and pull out all of the grads, the welding glass filter and anything else that tempts me to try anything other than basic photography. I'll also be perusing books and the internet to make sure I've got the relationship between aperture, ISO and shutter speed absolutely locked down.

Hopefully, by the time my photogenic holiday to Greece rolls around, I'll have mastered the basics to the point of having photos I'm really happy with. :thumbs:

By the way, you all really are a terrific bunch - no question is too vague or nonsensical for you all. You're a fantastic lot for coming to the aid of the less talented members of this site! :)
 
Another vote for Scott Kelby's books. There's a bit at the back on "how to take this shot" - he shows you a picture and tells you what you need to do to get it. Most of them are easy enough but there are some challenging ones mixed in.

Personally though, I'd recommend you go shooting with somebody who can help you. An hour or so doing it out there has got to be better than juggling books/DVDs and trying yourself. I know I have spent ages trying to do Lovegrove-style flash shots to no avail despite his excellent DVDs.
 
i just had a peep on your flickr too :naughty:

there's plenty of good stuff on there & you're definitely on the right track
you just gotta stick with it & dont be afraid to trey new stuff :thumbs:
 
Try leaving some of the gear at home. If you've not yet got your head round exposure then leave the grads, polariser and welding glass at home.

Metering, as I understand it:
What your camera is trying to is get a mid grey tone. You might get the same amount of light coming off a black thing in bright light as you do in a white thing in dim light. Your camera can't tell the difference so it always aims for mid grey. A photo of pure white snow or black volcanic sand should come out the same shade so you'd use negative exposure compensation to make your black sand black and positive compensation to make the snow white. Same principle applies to scenes with a range of brighnesses. Your camera won't always give you the result you're after so use exposure compensation to lighten or darken as you need to. Hope that helps.
 
also the D40 handbook is complete rubbish

I bought "this" one . cheap - explained a lot better
 
The Matt said:
Metering, as I understand it:
What your camera is trying to is get a mid grey tone. You might get the same amount of light coming off a black thing in bright light as you do in a white thing in dim light. Your camera can't tell the difference so it always aims for mid grey. A photo of pure white snow or black volcanic sand should come out the same shade so you'd use negative exposure compensation to make your black sand black and positive compensation to make the snow white. Same principle applies to scenes with a range of brighnesses. Your camera won't always give you the result you're after so use exposure compensation to lighten or darken as you need to. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Very helpful explanation, thank you for that! :clap:

Yardbent said:
also the D40 handbook is complete rubbish

I bought "this" one . cheap - explained a lot better
Click to expand...

Another likely purchase for me. Thanks! :clap:

corbystock said:
Why not buddy up with someone on here that has a good grasp of things & go for a day out shooting.
Click to expand...

I'm keen on doing that. I put out the feelers a while back for local 'toggers and it didn't come back with much. I'll do the same again and hopefully get an education in the field! :thumbs:
 
Ok so digital is grea, but I am starting to really enjoy shooting film.

I'm using a basic 35 mm SLR (it has light meter, but everything else is manual) and I'm using a prime lens at the moment so my Feet are my telephoto.

It really pushes me to consider the photograph before pressing the shutter as I won't see the result straight away I have to trust that the picture will look like I imagined it (or half decent)

Ok so infact it is more challenging than that, but for all the disapoints I really feel that I am understanding more about how a camera works and I cna trnasfer that to the DSLR.

It is good not to have to think about a million settings I can change and make the shot with what's at had, e.g. if its bright and ISO film loaded is high the only option is to adjust the aperture or not take the picture.

I have also started collecting older second hand photography books (not digital). These contain good explinations of the basics and don't discuss lightroom, photoshop or any such distractions.
 
Astraeus said:
but I'm still not able to cope with challenging situations (the photos from Dubrovnik on my Flickr could have been brilliant but I can't deal with haze or bright sunshine).
Click to expand...

I've just looked at this set and the main problem is the conditions and the time of day most of them were taken. Clear blue skies in the middle of a warm day almost guarantee mediocre photographs and the camera will emphasize any haze present. Given the conditions your photographs are quite acceptable and it's certainly not your fault (or the camera's) that they are not better.

The trick is to learn to understand light and appreciate that it is the single most important factor in any landscape photograph. A while ago I was asked to write a couple of short features on the subject here http://www.better-photographs.com/better-landscape-photography.html and here http://www.better-photographs.com/learn-landscape-photography.html. Hopefully these will explain what I mean about the importance of light.

Books that I would recommend include:-

"Mountain Light" by Galen Rowell

"First Light" by Joe Cornish

"Waiting For The Light" by David Noton

"Chasing the Light" (DVD) by David Noton

"Light in the Landscape" and "Capturing the Light" by Peter Watson

"The Making of Landscape Photographs" and "Seeing Landscapes" by Charlie Waite

The important thing is to keep persevering and don't give up. It doesn't really matter if your photographs are fantastic or merely good - or even poor - as long as you enjoy taking them. The very act of taking a photograph often gives you an appreciation and an insight of the world that is denied to non-photographers and the learning process is what makes it all worthwhile. I'm still learning after starting over 30 year's ago and the day I stop learning will be the day I give up.

Enjoy your photography. :)
 
Astraeus said:
I'm keen on doing that. I put out the feelers a while back for local 'toggers and it didn't come back with much. I'll do the same again and hopefully get an education in the field! :thumbs:
Click to expand...

it would help - and this applies to ALL newcomers - put your location in your profile....:thinking:
 
DrRusty said:
.........
It really pushes me to consider the photograph before pressing the shutter as I won't see the result straight away I have to trust that the picture will look like I imagined it.............
Click to expand...

Richard.....true - but when "learning" I think a big digital advantage is to be able to go home and see what you have done

the shooting conditions will be remembered and corrections are immediately realized

BTW - exploring film again too - Used Book shops are indeed a god-send
just found "Photo School" by Michael Freeman circa 1982 for....£1......:D
 
Don't panic - I've been doing this for 35 years and I'm still learning - the more you learn, the more there is to learn.
Anyone who says they know it all is:

a) Lying.
b) Horribly conceited.
 
May I recommend you start with the basics first as others have suggested. If you start getting some decent images your pleased with it will be less frustrating and more rewarding. As others have said you've got to get a grip of the basics to build on and then learn bit by bit from there.
I would suggest you start with Aperture Priority and use Auto White Balance with Matrix Metering. With this you can concentrate on 'depth of field' and 'composition' which are fundimental in good photography. Then change to Shutter Priority and get familier with capturing moving objects, which to get a good rate of keepers in focus and well composed is more difficult then it seems. At least once you've got to grips with these two basic areas of photography you will be shooting more like a pro and have some good pictures you can be proud of.
 
My advice would be to stop chucking money at accessories and spend some cash on a one-to-one with someone local. Make sure they know what they are talking about and can explain things to you in simple English.

I am sometimes suprised that people donot even know how to hold a camera! Mention exposure and they think someone is going to "flash" them and they think depth of field is something to do with farming! I find reading books and manuals really boring yet some thrive on them. How often do you read how to do something yet when you try it your camera is different? You cant ask a manual or book questions if you simply dont understand what is written. Ask around at your local camera shop or maybe even see if there is a camera club near you.
 
Yardbent said:
Richard.....true - but when "learning" I think a big digital advantage is to be able to go home and see what you have done

the shooting conditions will be remembered and corrections are immediately realized

BTW - exploring film again too - Used Book shops are indeed a god-send
just found "Photo School" by Michael Freeman circa 1982 for....£1......:D
Click to expand...

Fair point - as long as the process of taking a picture isn't dominated by concerns as to whether you have set the numerous variables on a DSLR correctly.

I am finding composition the hardest thing to do and I have a hope that using film is going to make me think more about composition than camera settings.
 
We did have a thread for photo buddies somewhere.

I don't know where you are from but why not put a shout out for someone in your area and go somewhere to take pictures..... Take the same one and see what that person does differently, see what their thought process is etc.... Join in with a TP day out, we have lots in the North West now (and usually with cakes :nuts:)
 
Not sure who said this, but...

I think of the correct amout of light to expose the photo as a ball of bluetac.
How that tac passes through the lens depends on the aperture.
So for a small aperture (high f number) you need to roll the bluetac into a sausage and thread it through. The length of the tac is the depth of field and the exposure time (slow shutter speed).
For a large aperture (low f number) you can squash it into a coin shape and it pops through in no time (fast shutter speed) and small depth of field.

Increasing the ISO by one stop (which means half or double depending on what your talking about; ISO, Shutter speed or F number), in this case doubling your sensitivity or halving the amount of light required to correctly expose the photo, so your bluetac ball is notionally half the volume.

Might help!
 
Thanks for all of the advice and support guys. I actually thought I had my location in my profile but it appears not - that's something I shall amend ASAP. I'll keep my eye in the Meeting Place forum to see what meets are happening within a reasonable travelling distance of where I am and hopefully get down to one soon. :thumbs:
 
We all do things in different way.
Hit frustration side of things not long ago.Tirpizt and i both got our dslr not far apart.He read all links known to man, and I purely dont have time.He came on leaps and bounds and i struggled.To point he came round and tryed to teach me,pointed nikon away without even looking through view finder and got perfect pic which i would have taken ages to sort,Got right hump cant tell you.
But iv battled on ,far from perfect,but iv moved into total a enjoyment stage.Some shots pants,some well happy with.
Its a case of whats good for you.Cant run before you can walk.Above all enjoy.
Ride through beginners stage, and if dosnt float boat,then its not for you.
Hope you can ride through "my beginners" stage and enjoy.
As said far from perfect but gone through frustrated to happy with what i bring back .Thats what its all about.Be happy with what your doing.
Live and learn.
 
I hate reading books unless they have a very good story, so that counts photography books out :(

However, I do like reading the tutorials on here which I find very useful. If I still find I'm struggling with understanding, I youtube everything ... http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scott+kelby&aq=0 great for if you prefer to be shown how to do things ;)
 
The shots from your FlickR are really good - I can't see any immediate problems.

Just keep practicing and eventually you'll develop your own way of doing things. Setup your camera with the same settings and try adjusting them one by one - to see what effect they give. Doing it and experiencing it is much much better than reading about it in a book - in my opinion.
 
Personally, I'd take a big step back and think what you want to shoot over anything else and prioritise where you want to go and what you want to learn first.

The old phrase "all the gear, no idea" is one that is especially apt on TP and it sounds like you've fallen foul of buying into gear without knowing why you need it. Don't worry though, it's just a case of systematically going through each piece of kit to learn what it can do for you.

You should take shots because you want to, not because you feel you need to. Don't just snap away aimlessly - you'll never get anywhere and it'll just dull your enjoyment.

By all means practise - follow drills to learn what f-stops are, how exposure comp works etc, etc... - but don't over-practise because then you'll never have the confidence to do it for real.

I've been a pro for 10 years now and am still learning all the time. However, I know my limits - I'm pants at wildlife and landscapes - so I focus on the things I can do and TBH, landscapes and sunsets aren't a big thrill for me anyway so I don't waste time on them. I like off-camera flash and studio lighting so I do a lot of that.

Overall, don't worry - it'll click into place but just enjoy and don't analyse verything all the time :)
 
Beagletorque said:
Not sure who said this, but...

I think of the correct amout of light to expose the photo as a ball of bluetac.
How that tac passes through the lens depends on the aperture.
So for a small aperture (high f number) you need to roll the bluetac into a sausage and thread it through. The length of the tac is the depth of field and the exposure time (slow shutter speed).
For a large aperture (low f number) you can squash it into a coin shape and it pops through in no time (fast shutter speed) and small depth of field.

Increasing the ISO by one stop (which means half or double depending on what your talking about; ISO, Shutter speed or F number), in this case doubling your sensitivity or halving the amount of light required to correctly expose the photo, so your bluetac ball is notionally half the volume.

Might help!
Click to expand...

I LOVE THIS....:thumbs:
 
Astraeus said:
and using my ND grads sends my head into a spin - I can't tell the difference when they're on and I don't know how to compensate for them (metering off the ground or sky?). :
Click to expand...

Your probably using the ND's incorrectly... a lot of people do ;), have a look here it may help
 
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