boyfalldown
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I suspect you can't stop indoctirnation directly. But, certainly society can ensure those children are being educated.
and please use their services
Why are they bothering
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I suspect you can't stop indoctirnation directly. But, certainly society can ensure those children are being educated.
Your argument makes no sense at all. You are the one mentioning all Muslims, not me. I specifically point out the nuances. Islam is not a race either. As Dawkins said "If you can convert to it, be baptised into it, or apostatise out of it . . . it's not a race."
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no you don't you think you know that because you've read it in a right wing rag - some imans are sure, but people like choudry are not representative of all of islam
tbh I'm not sure why you are getting so het up about that particular stat anyway - even if every muslim in the world thought aposates should be burned alive (which is what christians used to do with heretics by the way) since you presumably arent a muslim you can't be guilty of apostasy , so its not going to affect you much anyway
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If you can't comprehend that the extremists want western countries to discriminate against muslims inorder to turn more to their side then you are seriously naive.
D
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From the link you provided, I see there are a number of other statistics that you chose not to quote. Is that because they do not support your world view? Seems a bit selective to me. From the report you linked to:-
And some quotes from the report:-
And I think the most pertinent to you:-
Missed those did you?
You are constructing and demolishing your own arguments. Choudary wasn't mentioned as being the representation of all of Islam. His way of thinking is being shared by an increasing number of people and that is a problem. There is a deep well of antisemitic, antigay, antiwestern propaganda there from scholars being pumped out from the Middle East and the UK. The Middle East is easy to find it, in the UK Channel 4 already exposed it with Undercover Mosques. There are significant enough numbers to be concerned and not to be dismissed with truisms like 'not every person thinks that'.
As for getting het up, I'm posting what's in the news and what the polls and reports are telling us. You are the one making excuses and trying to downplay it.
You stats merely point out what I have been saying. That a significant percentage of Muslims polled feel their religion should be above ridicule and other polls show that a significant percentage polled condone violence to anyone who lampoons it. You're doing the work for me.
Yes, just like Oldknow Academy ( not the only school involved, there were others ) in Birmingham where Muslims tried to take over the curriculum. Preaching homophobia, religious intolerance, sexism etc they bullied other teachers who disagreed with the extreme views being peddled to the pupils. The council meanwhile, buried its head up its ar5e, terrified it didn't rock the 'multiculturalism boat'
This was last year, 2014 in today's Britain. Staggering that this could take place with the public purse funding it.
boyfalldown
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So that's a reason to give up is it? I'd submit not & the key word is tried. In one education authority
Sam B
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Does Dawkins' rule also apply to Jews then?
boyfalldown
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boyfalldown
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you really didn't read my post, did you?
Sam B
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Hi,
Indeed!... I was just hoping it may expose the flaw in Dawkins' comment; Yes, one may convert to Judaism (although I believe your mother must be Jewish to be a - ahem - 'proper' Jew) and of course leave, but they are still often referred to as a 'race' - even by themselves. Whether or not they are a 'race' in the true (many!) definition(s) of the word is irrelevant. The same goes for Muslims... it's the same type of moron who would have a pop at them as would a group of Chinese guys. Call them 'racists' call them 'anti-theists' call them whatever you want...
Generally speaking, if I was to come out with a comment along the lines of "Damn dirty muslims... I don't wan't anything to do with them", I'd be labelled a racist. Similarly, if I was to beat a Muslim around the face with a leg of pork then I'd be charged with racially aggravated assault. But how can this be? They're not a race!... I find the only people who get hung up over the word 'race' are those wishing to try and justify their own hate-filled opinions. Similarly, I've heard a similar argument about the racial slur 'Paki' - According to the boneheads, that's ok to use because it's '...just short for Pakistani and Pakistanis aren't a race' and dare anyone challenge them it's just 'PC gone mad'. Cretins.
Regards, Sam
LCPete
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[QUObig soft moose, post: 6828287, member: 39650"]If you can't comprehend that the extremists want western countries to discriminate against muslims inorder to turn more to their side then you are seriously naive.[/QUOTE]
Yes that's exactly what I was trying to say
Yes that's exactly what I was trying to say
LCPete
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You know what I meant by islam I thought that you were talking about Muslims
He tweeted:
"There are gene/region correlations such that, if a person's genes mostly come from 1 region you can tell which region. That's race. Racism is the bigoted, essentialist habit of prejudicially judging people's value by their race. Neither Muslim nor Jew is a race. Both are cultural traditions in which beliefs, rituals, customs etc are non-genetically transmitted."
Sam B
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I think my last comment best answers this.
You accuse me of being selective and then you select stats that confirm my argument. Then you point to a truism in the report as if it is a sage piece of wisdom that wasn't already known.
Sam B
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If you're using 'stats' from a survey of 1000 people to support your argument then you have no argument.
D
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What stats do you think confirmed your argument?
No Sam, Islam is a religion, not a race, no matter how many people you'd beat up with whatever meat.
Sam B
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Yes, thank you. I know Islam is a religion. In the same way that you've avoided everyone else's point, you've avoided mine.
Maybe take a break and give reading it another go.
Sam B
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If you're interested in research and statistics (outside of those published in the red tops, of course) try reading 'Bad Science' by Ben Goldacre.
But 57% don't and that is a problem when a significant percentage condone violent attacks for mocking their religion or are sympathetic to the aims of the attackers.
28% agreed that banning a picture or a toy pig was the right thing. 17% thought banning a Christmas carol advert was the right thing to do. You are talking about 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 agreeing that these ridiculous concessions to their faith are a good thing? In Saudi Arabia maybe but the UK? 1 in 5 also thought the UK authorities don't do enough to stop them being offended. There seems to be a culture of victimhood and wanting their faith placed in a special untouchable place.
boyfalldown
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I don't think he actually implied that all Muslims are the enemy, but there is an element that have warped views of how they can act in our society.
Thankfully all the Muslims I have encountered aren't so radical.
boyfalldown
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In fairness, both sides in that video are cocks. Young lady goes looking for a fight, seems surprised when other, equally big cocks give it her....no surprise
It is a sample size calculator. A book by some guy from The Guardian doesn't change it. You think 1000 isn't enough, so how many is according to you?
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She was hardly looking for a fight and far from being in anyway provocative.
boyfalldown
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So what confidence would you have in that survey, and do you really think that the much smaller size of the subgroups (16-24 yr old etc..) still represent a suitable sample size?
boyfalldown
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You could be pretty confident. Certainly enough to see there is a concerning percentage who think that Muslim conversion is forbidden and punishable by death. The total was 31% and 36% for the 16-24 year olds. Homosexuality being wrong and should be illegal had 61% in agreement. It wasn't as if it was insignificant numbers we are talking about in the low single figure percentile where you have margins for error.
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The first time I watched it that was my initial impression of that carefully selected portion of a much longer programme. Watch the full hour and you may find she presents quite a balanced viewpoint.
boyfalldown
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So what confidence interval does your survey indicate then? Bear in mind, assuming a representative sample of the population about 150 will be in the 16-24 age group, the margin for error is huge.
On a separate note, to you what is a typical British Muslim like?
There is little point trying to pick holes in the methodology of a respected polling company like Populus. The figures from these polls always seem to throw up inconvenient truths. It is better to accept there is a problem here with a significant percentage and try to deal with it. Not pretend it isn't there because you know a Muslim that ate a bacon sandwich once.
D
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OK now I can see the problem. The stat you are deriving the above number from:
You don't appear to be able to add up! (or more accurately, subtract...) No wonder that stats confuse you.
But even if that were not the case, the report says that only 29% of the general population believe that:-
As opposed to 37% of the sample. That means that the sample is more liberal in the belief that religions can be freely criticised. Even when I point out the stats and their meaning to you, you don't seem to be able to comprehend and confuse them for being stats that support your argument. As Churchill said....
The question to the Muslim population:
"One of the benefits of modern society is the freedom to criticise other people’s religious or political views, even when it causes offence"
37% Agree
57% Disagree
5% Don't know/refused
The same question to the general population:
29% Agree
43% Disagree
28% Don't know/refused
Almost as many of the general population didn't know/refused as agreed with the statement which is a significant enough number to show that criticism of religion or politics doesn't really matter to them if it offends. There was very little didn't know/refused in the Muslim poll. The chances of the general population who comprise of other religions attacking organisations violently for mocking their religion is very remote. Take 57% of Muslims who responded that they disagreed that criticism of religion or politics was a benefit and you have a well of sympathy and tolerance for scenarios like the riots after the Danish cartoons or the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
So no, your stats don't add any weight to your argument.