Why are people buying electric cars?

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That is rubbish, wouldn't even take me to the seaside and back, let alone drive to the South of France in one hit.

Well then you wouldnt buy it would you - you wouldnt buy an MX5 as your main car with a wife and 2 kids. For someone that just does 100 miles a week or so, local stuff its a great deal
 
That is rubbish, wouldn't even take me to the seaside and back, let alone drive to the South of France in one hit.

That is why they are so cheap along with the build quality, standard of trim.........

For not much more we have bought a very low milage top spec' petrol Ibiza with a range of 500+ miles.
 
Well then you wouldnt buy it would you - you wouldnt buy an MX5 as your main car with a wife and 2 kids. For someone that just does 100 miles a week or so, local stuff its a great deal

If we had kids, I'd buy an MX-5 as MY main car!!! Having said that, I'd probably just stick with my bike - with its single seat.
 
The park and ride where we go on holiday IS free - parking's free and plentiful with regular (every 20 minutes) electric busses into the city centre. Even the "normal" busses there are reliable, clean and cheap - a 5km (as the crow flies) trip is €1.20 each way rather than the £3 each way for a 2km trip (atcf) here that might or might not turn up and is likely to be filthy.
 
In Wales buses are free once you get to 60 , we don’t bother using the car to go into town just jump on the bus
Means we can both have a pint in the pub too :)
 
In Wales buses are free once you get to 60 , we don’t bother using the car to go into town just jump on the bus
Means we can both have a pint in the pub too :)
I wonder if you will be criticised then like an ev user is by a certain member
 
Interesting...


Very interesting in the near future the technology will get to the stage that there is no need at all for anyone to buy a petrol car
Not yet there for us due the range but I would seriously consider an electric car with a 1000 mile range
Something else that bugs me is the sheer size of many new electric vehicles but the same is happening with petrol cars too
 
Very interesting in the near future the technology will get to the stage that there is no need at all for anyone to buy a petrol car
How do you solve the charging issue for those who lack off street parking?

Also, how do you replace the tax revenue currently (sic) being lost from those who use domestic electricity to charge cars?
 
How do you solve the charging issue for those who lack off street parking?

Also, how do you replace the tax revenue currently (sic) being lost from those who use domestic electricity to charge cars?

Well, not many of us have off street refuelling, so it would be some kind of public charge or filing station I guess? :headbang::headbang:

If it did have 1000 mile range that would only mean 7 or 8 charges per year for the average driver!

And IF we went all EV tomorrow, it would be simple - pay per mile - although no idea how they make it fiddle proof (clocking mileage)
 
How do you solve the charging issue for those who lack off street parking?

Also, how do you replace the tax revenue currently (sic) being lost from those who use domestic electricity to charge cars?

Agree EV isn’t for everyone a mix of vehicle types is probably the answer, certainly at the moment an electric car that would replace what we have is out of our budget anyway
It is good that technology is improving all the time though which can only be good
No idea about the second point regarding tax income to be honest
 
The government gets a great deal of income from fuel duty on petrol, diesel and other fuels. People who charge their electric cars at home don't pay this, if they can charge using their domestic supply. This is discussed here...

In exactly the same way as now. Let's assume people start switching to non alcoholic beverages because they feel it's healthier. The tax take from excise duty goes down. To fill that hole the government applies tax in other areas to recover the shortfall. I think focusing too heavily on one area of tax policy rather than taking the holistic approach isn't that helpful.
There are a whole range of tax incentives to drive behaviour and it's down to individual choice whether they wish to take advantage of them or not
 
In exactly the same way as now. Let's assume people start switching to non alcoholic beverages because they feel it's healthier. The tax take from excise duty goes down. To fill that hole the government applies tax in other areas to recover the shortfall. I think focusing too heavily on one area of tax policy rather than taking the holistic approach isn't that helpful.
There are a whole range of tax incentives to drive behaviour and it's down to individual choice whether they wish to take advantage of them or not

Exactly - what about taxing all the ex smokers who vape, they are no different to ICE switching to EV
 
How do you solve the charging issue for those who lack off street parking?

Also, how do you replace the tax revenue currently (sic) being lost from those who use domestic electricity to charge cars?
Buses. Walking. Cycling. Scooting.
 
I think focusing too heavily on one area of tax policy rather than taking the holistic approach isn't that helpful.
As do I.

However, to reduce a source of revenue, as a policy, without considering where that reduction will be restored from, is just plain wrong. My argument is and always has been, that the loss of fuel duty needs to be balanced by an alternative.

The logical alternative is to increase VED on those vehicles, which cause the loss, rather than reducing VED as a bribe to those who can afford such vehicles. That the current government has some understanding of this, is indicated by the coming increases to VED, announced recently.
 
Well, not many of us have off street refuelling, so it would be some kind of public charge or filing station I guess? :headbang::headbang:

If it did have 1000 mile range that would only mean 7 or 8 charges per year for the average driver!

And IF we went all EV tomorrow, it would be simple - pay per mile - although no idea how they make it fiddle proof (clocking mileage)

This is an idea I've been advocating on here for a while. Even the possibility (if the tech gets there) of having large battery storage on site, just as fuel stations have underground bunkers, that could be charged overnight to reduce stress on the grid. When people charge during the day it comes from the large battery storage and not the grid. If charging rates can be brought down to about 2-3 mins then it's the same as going to fill up with petrol.

To expand it even further, if infrastructure is a problem in certain areas, then would it be possible in the future to have large battery trucks instead of petrol tankers? These go to remote charging stations and charge up the onsite battery, just as a petrol tanker fills up the bunker. Anything is possible I guess.
 
As do I.

However, to reduce a source of revenue, as a policy, without considering where that reduction will be restored from, is just plain wrong. My argument is and always has been, that the loss of fuel duty needs to be balanced by an alternative.

The logical alternative is to increase VED on those vehicles, which cause the loss, rather than reducing VED as a bribe to those who can afford such vehicles. That the current government has some understanding of this, is indicated by the coming increases to VED, announced recently.
As you note VED is increasing. However if you are suggesting that VED for EVs should exceed that of ICE vehicles to compensate for the loss of fuel duty that isn't logical; the purpose of an incentive is to tailor behaviour and as such there has to be some kind of financial motivation to do so (a "bribe" using your terminology). It's at the point where the drop in revenue starts becoming significant that the government will consider it's options.
All tax decisions taken by the government of any persuasion will have received an impact assessment from The Treasury of this. I would surmise the increase in VED is one of a number of measures under consideration as part of a holistic approach
 
This is an idea I've been advocating on here for a while. Even the possibility (if the tech gets there) of having large battery storage on site, just as fuel stations have underground bunkers, that could be charged overnight to reduce stress on the grid. When people charge during the day it comes from the large battery storage and not the grid. If charging rates can be brought down to about 2-3 mins then it's the same as going to fill up with petrol.

To expand it even further, if infrastructure is a problem in certain areas, then would it be possible in the future to have large battery trucks instead of petrol tankers? These go to remote charging stations and charge up the onsite battery, just as a petrol tanker fills up the bunker. Anything is possible I guess.
The sort of alternative to this is demand side response and variable pricing. When the sun is out loading up the PVs or its windy and theres more generation than demand you incentivise people to use electricity at this time. When its not you incentivise people to reduce their consumption.

A number of suppliers now do this variable pricing because people who have PVs on their roof and / or battery storage can see on their apps how much their PVs are producing and how full their batteries are, so they use what they are generating by putting washing on etc and therefore aren't a grid load or aren't paying for that specific consumption. Yes it does require some behavioural changes but some people are will to do that to benefit from lower costs. It tend to be those that aren't susceptible to changing their behaviour that jump up and down as ask why they should be charged more for the convenience of just consuming whenever they flick the switch.
 
As you note VED is increasing. However if you are suggesting that VED for EVs should exceed that of ICE vehicles to compensate for the loss of fuel duty that isn't logical;
Your opinion, like my own, is only one of many.

As I consider the whole electrification project to be an unholy marriage of convenience between two natural enemies: the mad ecologists and the equally insane greedy business sector, you may understand why I also consider my suggestion entirely logical.
the purpose of an incentive is to tailor behaviour and as such there has to be some kind of financial motivation to do so (a "bribe" using your terminology).
The Cambridge Dictionary defines bribery as...

"to give someone money or something else of value, often illegally, to persuade that person to do something you want"

It's at the point where the drop in revenue starts becoming significant that the government will consider it's options.
Do you have any proof of that claim? I suspect it's an example of hope rather than knowledge.
All tax decisions taken by the government of any persuasion will have received an impact assessment from The Treasury of this.
That may be the theory but the practice is that, once a group within government have a bee in their bonnet, such minor considerations as the opinions of the Office for Budget Responsibility are ignored or circumvented.
I would surmise the increase in VED is one of a number of measures under consideration as part of a holistic approach
It may well be but there will inevitably be amendments for the sole purpose of saving face and retaining the support of others.
 
Your opinion, like my own, is only one of many.

As I consider the whole electrification project to be an unholy marriage of convenience between two natural enemies: the mad ecologists and the equally insane greedy business sector, you may understand why I also consider my suggestion entirely logical.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines bribery as...

"to give someone money or something else of value, often illegally, to persuade that person to do something you want"


Do you have any proof of that claim? I suspect it's an example of hope rather than knowledge.

That may be the theory but the practice is that, once a group within government have a bee in their bonnet, such minor considerations as the opinions of the Office for Budget Responsibility are ignored or circumvented.

It may well be but there will inevitably be amendments for the sole purpose of saving face and retaining the support of others.
So essentially your view is to maintain the status quo until such time as oil starts to run out or becomes economically so expensive that alternatives are required? As you say it is a view and only history will demonstrate which side of the argument was correct.

Language is regularly used to convey emotion and I would suggest that bribe is more commonly used for illegal situations, as recognized by your Cambridge definition rather than for tax incentives.

Whether the government of any persuasion chooses to recognize data/information provided when reaching a decision will only be known by the cabinet - until many years later. However any rational decision - government or personal should weigh up the available evidence before reaching a conclusion. If that occurs in all cases is uncertain. However any decision affecting large numbers of the population will impact some in a way they consider to be negative.

With regard to tax receipts - this is monitored constantly by the Treasury and data provided to the Exchequer.
 
Your opinion, like my own, is only one of many.

As I consider the whole electrification project to be an unholy marriage of convenience between two natural enemies: the mad ecologists and the equally insane greedy business sector, you may understand why I also consider my suggestion entirely logical.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines bribery as...

"to give someone money or something else of value, often illegally, to persuade that person to do something you want"


Do you have any proof of that claim? I suspect it's an example of hope rather than knowledge.

That may be the theory but the practice is that, once a group within government have a bee in their bonnet, such minor considerations as the opinions of the Office for Budget Responsibility are ignored or circumvented.

It may well be but there will inevitably be amendments for the sole purpose of saving face and retaining the support of others.

Governments have been doing this forever and will continue to do it - tax things that are bad for us and reduce tax for good things. The cycle to work scheme is a tax bribe in your eyes too
 
That response comes close "I'm all right Jack - and I'll pull the ladder up after me".
On the contrary. It clearly states that things are not frozen in time, that people are not dinosaurs.
 
As you say it is a view and only history will demonstrate which side of the argument was correct.
And this statement is also correct.
Language is regularly used to convey emotion and I would suggest that bribe is more commonly used for illegal situations, as recognized by your Cambridge definition rather than for tax incentives.
Once again, we agree.
However any decision affecting large numbers of the population will impact some in a way they consider to be negative.
Again, you are quite correct but I question the use of the word "some". In a given case, that word may be misleading.
With regard to tax receipts - this is monitored constantly by the Treasury and data provided to the Exchequer.
I agree that is the theory but there have been numerous claims over time that what the Treasury says is not what the Exchequer chooses to hear or on which the cabinet then chooses to act,
 
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Had one car mot’d recently, the other serviced and found a total of 8000 miles driven between them, was chatting to the sales guys whilst waiting for one car who suggested I look at the new ev models in the showroom, when I stopped laughing the asked “why not” my sports car is 16 years old and I’m hoping for maybe another 10 years out of it(and me), there is no available replacement I want, or can afford, wife’s car is not 3 year old and low mileage so that’ll be good at 4 more years till the warranty is out at least, what’s with the ev push guys I asked, big commission was the answer, sales target need hit to avoid penalties but no point getting rid of competent vehicles until needed, I can use the money saved on? foreign trips to support Edinburgh rugby on away games, 2 Italian and 1 French game booked, more fun than a new car. Every chance I’ll be finished driving by the time I’d be forced to drive an auto ev.
 
Had one car mot’d recently, the other serviced and found a total of 8000 miles driven between them, was chatting to the sales guys whilst waiting for one car who suggested I look at the new ev models in the showroom, when I stopped laughing the asked “why not” my sports car is 16 years old and I’m hoping for maybe another 10 years out of it(and me), there is no available replacement I want, or can afford, wife’s car is not 3 year old and low mileage so that’ll be good at 4 more years till the warranty is out at least, what’s with the ev push guys I asked, big commission was the answer, sales target need hit to avoid penalties but no point getting rid of competent vehicles until needed, I can use the money saved on? foreign trips to support Edinburgh rugby on away games, 2 Italian and 1 French game booked, more fun than a new car. Every chance I’ll be finished driving by the time I’d be forced to drive an auto ev.

They are sales - would have asked the same 10 years ago before the EVs were popular. As you say, you dont need to change, some like to change cars every 3/4 years. Since 2009 I have not had a car more than 4 years bar one car (at the time 2 car household but the other was changed). If I had a car I really liked (owned, not PCP) and it was doing what i needed it to do, I wouldnt change either.
 
I have this question somewhat with my Karoq, although I'm driving around 15,000 miles per year. The car is 7 YO, do I keep it another 5 years or more, or trade it up in the next 12 months (retiring in 1 year too) with a view to buying my 'last' car or just keep going a bit longer. An EV is tempting for low running costs in retirement, except that I suspect that's all going to change before the next election.
 
I have this question somewhat with my Karoq, although I'm driving around 15,000 miles per year. The car is 7 YO, do I keep it another 5 years or more, or trade it up in the next 12 months (retiring in 1 year too) with a view to buying my 'last' car or just keep going a bit longer. An EV is tempting for low running costs in retirement, except that I suspect that's all going to change before the next election.
So wait till after the election ;)
 
just to keep Andrew happy - yes we did get the Government Grant ...... was it £5k or £7.5k?

great car

TP_i3_18.jpg
 
just to keep Andrew happy - yes we did get the Government Grant ...... was it £5k or £7.5k?
It would be Infra dignitatem to make a comment...
 
Got a V2L adaptor today, I can plug it into the car and use any number of electrical appliances up to 16 amps ~3kw. Very handy for going camping :)
 
Got a V2L adaptor today, I can plug it into the car and use any number of electrical appliances up to 16 amps ~3kw. Very handy for going camping :)
Apparently there's a chap near me (and I say "apparently" because this is according to a dealer and it seems v-e-r-y unlikely I would never have seen him) who uses an EV6 to tow his vegan ice cream trailer. Drive to event, plug trailer into V2L, serve vegan soft serve goodness all day long from the 16 amp feed, drive home, charge at cheap rate. He probably declares the whole thing as a tax loss.

I can only imagine how upsetting this story would be to members of a nervous disposition.
 
Apparently there's a chap near me (and I say "apparently" because this is according to a dealer and it seems v-e-r-y unlikely I would never have seen him) who uses an EV6 to tow his vegan ice cream trailer. Drive to event, plug trailer into V2L, serve vegan soft serve goodness all day long from the 16 amp feed, drive home, charge at cheap rate. He probably declares the whole thing as a tax loss.

I can only imagine how upsetting this story would be to members of a nervous disposition.

You can set the amount of charge the V2L can take from the main battery, default is max 50%. I think I'll go plug the mower in and mow the lawn :D
 
just to keep Andrew happy - yes we did get the Government Grant ...... was it £5k or £7.5k?

great car

TP_i3_18.jpg
As someone who has quite aesthetic tastes, that looks like it has been designed by a five year old with learning difficulties, but that is probably being hard on people with learning difficulties. I see no beauty, form or style in that object.
 
As someone who has quite aesthetic tastes, that looks like it has been designed by a five year old with learning difficulties, but that is probably being hard on people with learning difficulties. I see no beauty, form or style in that object.

And yet that car has won many design awards. I guess style is a personal thing and personally I always loved the look of that car, inside and out.
 
And yet that car has won many design awards. I guess style is a personal thing and personally I always loved the look of that car, inside and out.
Well, they do say as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or not, as the case may be.
 
And yet that car has won many design awards. I guess style is a personal thing and personally I always loved the look of that car, inside and out.

While I do believe you about winning awards, aesthetically this is deeply unattractive, and is one of a number of recent designs that makes me wonder what they were thinking.
 
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