Why are people buying electric cars?

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Went with a friend to look at a new car, salesman in a local dealer (who was new and didn’t know I had worked there) kept pushing him towards the evs on display, despite repeated telling him they were too big , he just kept repeating they’re the way forward, its the future, sales manager appeared and came over and greeted me, I told him what mate wanted and I wanted ‘a deal ‘, very short time later paperwork signed on a petrol Picanto, ex demo, at a great price. Sales staff make better bonus on an ev he explained as I pointed out he actually made f all bonus trying sell something my mate was not in the market for, his loss. Out for beer tonight, mate treating me from the money he saved by taking me along.
 
Meanwhile, back on Cynic's Corner, the next row waiting to happen is "Gullygate"...

www.bbc.co.uk

EV charging: pavement trial for Bournemouth Christchurch Poole

Residents can charge electric vehicles parked on the street via cables within a pavement gully.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

The cries of "You can't park there, mate, that's for me to charge my car" may soon be heard around the country... :D
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Meanwhile, back on Cynic's Corner, the next row waiting to happen is "Gullygate"...

www.bbc.co.uk

EV charging: pavement trial for Bournemouth Christchurch Poole

Residents can charge electric vehicles parked on the street via cables within a pavement gully.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

The cries of "You can't park there, mate, that's for me to charge my car" may soon be heard around the country... :D
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Yes. As much as this is a great idea (it opens up EV ownership to people without the luxury of a drive) it's also a recipe for disaster. People already have the somewhat unreasonable belief that the space in front of their house is somehow "theirs", this will reinforce it. People regularly park in my road for months at a time without moving their vehicles. If that happened in front of a charging gully, there would be violence.

It's a good step, but it's not the answer.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yes. As much as this is a great idea (it opens up EV ownership to people without the luxury of a drive) it's also a recipe for disaster. People already have the somewhat unreasonable belief that the space in front of their house is somehow "theirs", this will reinforce it. People regularly park in my road for months at a time without moving their vehicles. If that happened in front of a charging gully, there would be violence.

It's a good step, but it's not the answer.
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Sometimes this is caused by infrastructure and cant be changed (old areas for example) but most of this is down to councils a) having silly parking restrictions and b) not allowing enough spaces for new builds
 
JonathanRyan said:
It's a good step, but it's not the answer.
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I think it's just another attempt to fix a problem that should never exist in the first place.

People using electric cars should have been required, from the outset, to report their mileage each year. Their VED could then be adjusted to collect the tax not paid in fuel duty.

I would hardly be surprised to find out that both politicians and officials were "persuaded" to make sure that never happened.
 
Down here it's (to a significant extent) students who are asked not to bring their cars but do, then leave them parked for a couple of months until it's time for them to drive home again. Exacerbated by the extra accommodation that's been built in recent years with no provision for parking.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I think it's just another attempt to fix a problem that should never exist in the first place.

People using electric cars should have been required, from the outset, to report their mileage each year. Their VED could then be adjusted to collect the tax not paid in fuel duty.

I would hardly be surprised to find out that both politicians and officials were "persuaded" to make sure that never happened.
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Like they were persuaded to close railways and build motorways?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
At the moment, the whole electric car thing is based on feeding the greed of the electric car brigade. Discounts paid from tax money, charging from domestic power without paying fuel duty, huge discounts on road tax...

If they're such a good idea, why any of the above bribes?
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Its incentivising decarbonisation of transport rather than feeding greed. The government did a similar thing a while back with scrappage schemes. Offering way over the scrap value for older cars.

You could say similar for things like child benefit why is the government paying tax money for people who decide to move to having kids. There's probably a whole host of other ways that tax money is paid on 'incentivising' behaviours.

Not sure how its deemed greed though
 
jamesev said:
Its incentivising decarbonisation of transport rather than feeding greed. The government did a similar thing a while back with scrappage schemes. Offering way over the scrap value for older cars.

You could say similar for things like child benefit why is the government paying tax money for people who decide to move to having kids. There's probably a whole host of other ways that tax money is paid on 'incentivising' behaviours.

Not sure how its deemed greed though
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it is if you have a huge chip on your shoulder!!
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I think it's just another attempt to fix a problem that should never exist in the first place.

People using electric cars should have been required, from the outset, to report their mileage each year. Their VED could then be adjusted to collect the tax not paid in fuel duty.

I would hardly be surprised to find out that both politicians and officials were "persuaded" to make sure that never happened.
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I'm not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding or have become so enraptured with your tax vendetta that you just can't see other points of view.

Gully cables are nothing to do with tax. They are everything to do with convenience and equitable uptake of EVs.

If you really want to apply tax to charging EVs then it's relatively simple. Octopus know which power I use for my car and which I use for everything else. I could cheat that using a granny charger but it wouldn't be hard to spot using a very simple calculation.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I'm not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding or have become so enraptured with your tax vendetta that you just can't see other points of view.

Gully cables are nothing to do with tax. They are everything to do with convenience and equitable uptake of EVs.

If you really want to apply tax to charging EVs then it's relatively simple. Octopus know which power I use for my car and which I use for everything else. I could cheat that using a granny charger but it wouldn't be hard to spot using a very simple calculation.
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Your fighting a pointless battle - has a real chip on shoulder about EVs, probably envy! Sure he has cheated the taxpayer by using subsidised trains and buses!
 
JonathanRyan said:
I'm not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding or have become so enraptured with your tax vendetta that you just can't see other points of view.
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Vendetta is a strong word.

I'm offended by the concept that people should be bribed, with money raised from taxation, to change to a new technology that is not available to the majority of citizens, for various reasons; not the least being cost.
JonathanRyan said:
Gully cables are nothing to do with tax.
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Of course they are not.
JonathanRyan said:
They are everything to do with convenience and equitable uptake of EVs.
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They won't be convenient, because they'll reduce on street parking and lead to a great deal of friction.
JonathanRyan said:
If you really want to apply tax to charging EVs then it's relatively simple.
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I agree. Simply add an appropriate amount to VED as I've suggested.
JonathanRyan said:
Octopus know which power I use for my car and which I use for everything else. I could cheat that using a granny charger but it wouldn't be hard to spot using a very simple calculation.
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I'd very much like to know how much duty the average electric car driver pays per mile but I suspect that is on a "don't need to know" basis. Meanwhile, the "pay per mile" tax plan has gone wherever such ideas go to die, when the "great and the good" receive a suitable "gross insult" from their rich friends.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Vendetta is a strong word.

I'm offended by the concept that people should be bribed, with money raised from taxation, to change to a new technology that is not available to the majority of citizens, for various reasons; not the least being cost.

Of course they are not.

They won't be convenient, because they'll reduce on street parking and lead to a great deal of friction.

I agree. Simply add an appropriate amount to VED as I've suggested.

I'd very much like to know how much duty the average electric car driver pays per mile but I suspect that is on a "don't need to know" basis. Meanwhile, the "pay per mile" tax plan has gone wherever such ideas go to die, when the "great and the good" receive a suitable "gross insult" from their rich friends.
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So your offended by ISAs, by the trains and buses, by any form of subsidy from the government?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Vendetta is a strong word.

I'm offended by the concept that people should be bribed, with money raised from taxation, to change to a new technology that is not available to the majority of citizens, for various reasons; not the least being cost.

Of course they are not.

They won't be convenient, because they'll reduce on street parking and lead to a great deal of friction.

I agree. Simply add an appropriate amount to VED as I've suggested.

I'd very much like to know how much duty the average electric car driver pays per mile but I suspect that is on a "don't need to know" basis. Meanwhile, the "pay per mile" tax plan has gone wherever such ideas go to die, when the "great and the good" receive a suitable "gross insult" from their rich friends.
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en.wikipedia.org

Ernest Marples - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Read, then every time you take a motorway trip, remember that you are driving on corruption.
 
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cambsno said:
it is if you have a huge chip on your shoulder!!
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Indeed. Thinks subsidies for EVs are a bribe, yet fails to realise how many things are subsidised which hes oblivious to.

And then all the other things that certain demographics don;t have access to because of cost

Like you say somethings caused the chip
 
I do like those who get so neurotic about alternative opinions that all they can think to do is to insult the holders of those opinions. :D
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I do like those who get so neurotic about alternative opinions that all they can think to do is to insult the holders of those opinions. :D
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Opinions are fine but don’t be surprised at ridicule when people see those opinions for what they are. Baseless, without fact and prejudice. Could be a reform thing!!
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I do like those who get so neurotic about alternative opinions that all they can think to do is to insult the holders of those opinions. :D
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Suggesting that people who disagree with you have mental health issues is not a good look.
 
cambsno said:
Your fighting a pointless battle - has a real chip on shoulder about EVs, probably envy! Sure he has cheated the taxpayer by using subsidised trains and buses!
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More like the gentleman just likes to argue a point regardless of what it is. The block feature works wonders as a cure for that.
 
Not sure if it has been mentioned already but I was chatting to someone who works as an underwriter a few weeks ago and they were saying that the insurance companies expect the cost of car insurance to sky rocket over the next couple of years mainly due to E.V's. He drives an E.V himself so has no agenda. Parts for E.V's are harder to source especially for the Chinese brands, they are more expensive, labour charges are more expensive etc. Electric vehicles involved in an accident are far more likely to be written off partly due to cost of repair but also due to not being able to meet repair timescales. the more E.V's there is on the road the more expensive car insurance will become. Since then have seen a few videos online that have mentioned this as well so seems to be a valid concern.

I also seen a video recently it was on TikTok to be fair, and you have to take everything on there with a pinch of salt but it was talking about the mental levels of depreciation on Chinese brand E.V's like Jaecoo etc. While all cars have depreciation the rates of depreciation on these was absolutely mental. Because its TikTok and I had watched this one video I was then inundated with videos about the same thing. Pretty much nobody is recommending buying an E.V only leasing them because of the extraordinary high levels of depreciation especially on the Chinese brands.

This guy on TikTok breaks E.V’s. The reasons they are written off is scary especially with brand new cars with hardly any miles. Some went on fire etc. https://www.tiktok.com/@evbreakers?_t=ZN-8yoEU5ES6H0&_r=1
 
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Land Rovers have been impossible to insure due to the rate of thefts and parts availability. Manufacturers need to be forced to have decent parts supply from day one and subject to heavy fines if they will not make sure accident repairs can be done in a timely fashion. Accident repair industry is an absolute joke. They pay menial rates to bodyshops and trouser huge profits from credit car hire. It's an absolutely bent industry.

There aren't enough places that can work on EVS either. You check HEVRA and a lot of them turn out to only qualified to do basic servicing which is a cabin filter and occasionally brake fluid. That's not actual real repair work.

The change to EVs has been coming for years and lots of the industry are just asleep or refusing to make the necessary investment in proper training.
 
srichards said:
Land Rovers have been impossible to insure due to the rate of thefts and parts availability. Manufacturers need to be forced to have decent parts supply from day one and subject to heavy fines if they will not make sure accident repairs can be done in a timely fashion. Accident repair industry is an absolute joke. They pay menial rates to bodyshops and trouser huge profits from credit car hire. It's an absolutely bent industry.

There aren't enough places that can work on EVS either. You check HEVRA and a lot of them turn out to only qualified to do basic servicing which is a cabin filter and occasionally brake fluid. That's not actual real repair work.

The change to EVs has been coming for years and lots of the industry are just asleep or refusing to make the necessary investment in proper training.
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With that in mind and the charging infrastructure being poor then E.V's really aren't a valid option and alternatives should be looked at more closely.
 
f/2.8 said:
Not sure if it has been mentioned already but I was chatting to someone who works as an underwriter a few weeks ago and they were saying that the insurance companies expect the cost of car insurance to sky rocket over the next couple of years mainly due to E.V's. He drives an E.V himself so has no agenda. Parts for E.V's are harder to source especially for the Chinese brands, they are more expensive, labour charges are more expensive etc. Electric vehicles involved in an accident are far more likely to be written off partly due to cost of repair but also due to not being able to meet repair timescales. the more E.V's there is on the road the more expensive car insurance will become. Since then have seen a few videos online that have mentioned this as well so seems to be a valid concern.
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Don't forget hire costs....for a manifestly non fault I have the right to be provided with a hire car no worse than mine. Renting a Tesla ain't cheap at least partly because of the brutal depreciation. But even on a fault claim I usually get a "courtesy car". That's usually a Corsa or similar - but if I've driven an EV for many years I could probably make a case that I need an automatic and that's going to cost the insurer quite a bit more.

But yeah - insurance is going up because car prices go up - and that applies to ICE as well. Many people are now driving new lease vehicles that until recently would have driven the 8 year old Honda they could actually afford.

It doesn't matter what you drive. It matters what you hit. If every other car on the road doubles in cost your premium is going to go up.
 
I do remember when cheap Chinese motorbikes started being imported they were poor quality and it was difficult to get spare parts for them
They are decent quality now and have become established brands , I’m guessing that Chinese electric cars are at that point now, certainly even if we could afford a new car at the moment I don’t think it would be a Chinese EV
Agree that the accident repair industry is appalling at the moment with things like minor bumper damage ending up as very expensive
 
f/2.8 said:
With that in mind and the charging infrastructure being poor then E.V's really aren't a valid option and alternatives should be looked at more closely.
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Charging infrastructure isn't poor. There's lots of new hubs and giant charging stations open. Tesla have added loads in the last 12 months.

Toyota made the hydrogen Mirai. Released it just after the Tesla Model S in the UK. Folk have made their choice. They want EVs. They've bought 2 million of them. Meanwhile Toyota sold 200 of the Mirai. Only half are still on the road and they disappear out of howmanyleft regularly so I assume they're being scrapped.
 
f/2.8 said:
With that in mind and the charging infrastructure being poor then E.V's really aren't a valid option and alternatives should be looked at more closely.
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The charging infrastructure is fine. No issues in 2 years for me
 
srichards said:
Charging infrastructure isn't poor. There's lots of new hubs and giant charging stations open. Tesla have added loads in the last 12 months.

Toyota made the hydrogen Mirai. Released it just after the Tesla Model S in the UK. Folk have made their choice. They want EVs. They've bought 2 million of them. Meanwhile Toyota sold 200 of the Mirai. Only half are still on the road and they disappear out of howmanyleft regularly so I assume they're being scrapped.
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and the market will equalise it. as more and more EVs are taken up there will be investment in infrastructure and behaviours will adapt. I know of many who have got EVs and then got PV panels on the roof and battery storage. They also get the monitoring apps on phones and sign up to zero grid use at peak hours commitments. That way they can play the system to get lower costs. I suspect it won't be long with the additional 50GW of offshore wind that there might be flips on the market prices to make negative pricing for certain settlement periods
 
jamesev said:
and the market will equalise it. as more and more EVs are taken up there will be investment in infrastructure and behaviours will adapt. I know of many who have got EVs and then got PV panels on the roof and battery storage. They also get the monitoring apps on phones and sign up to zero grid use at peak hours commitments. That way they can play the system to get lower costs. I suspect it won't be long with the additional 50GW of offshore wind that there might be flips on the market prices to make negative pricing for certain settlement periods
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absolutely during winter periods and high wind renewables there are some insane deals on electricity especially on a smart metre
EVs are now dominating the landscape in my town for new cars in 5 years they will just be everywhere
 
Shortage of spares for new model cars is not unusual, manufacturers channel all parts to the factory to produce the new vehicles for sale to recoup their investment, I had great difficulty in ordering body panels etc for damage repair for circa 6-9 months after a launch, trying to persuade customers I didn’t control the flow of parts was at times could be difficult when their nearly new car was off the road awaiting spares.
I don’t buy a new release model in the first months, give them time to sort any unexpected bugs and to allow supply chain to normalise.
 
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f/2.8 said:
With that in mind and the charging infrastructure being poor then E.V's really aren't a valid option and alternatives should be looked at more closely.
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Kind of a sweeping statement there and others have already said you have it wrong. My take is that you're looking at it from the wrong side, most, like high nineties percent, of drivers will charge at home and never go near a public charger.
Low power slow home charging is ample for the vast majority of users the majority of the time. The ones who use public charging, businesses, tourists and those who can't charge at home are well catered for and as the number increases so will the charging stations. Lack of infrastructure is a big red herring, nothing else.
 
Steep said:
you know who will have conniptions.
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To be sure, to be sure.

'tis a fine and wonderful thing, to be true, seeing the fan boys cheering one another on. ;)
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Vendetta is a strong word.

I'm offended by the concept that people should be bribed, with money raised from taxation, to change to a new technology that is not available to the majority of citizens, for various reasons; not the least being cost.

Of course they are not.

They won't be convenient, because they'll reduce on street parking and lead to a great deal of friction.

I agree. Simply add an appropriate amount to VED as I've suggested.

I'd very much like to know how much duty the average electric car driver pays per mile but I suspect that is on a "don't need to know" basis. Meanwhile, the "pay per mile" tax plan has gone wherever such ideas go to die, when the "great and the good" receive a suitable "gross insult" from their rich friends.
Click to expand...

Its those bloody youngsters defrauding the taxpayer now... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9877kg42wjo

Yet more bribes!!!
 
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