Why are people buying electric cars?

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The Chinese car market was a nice cash cow for a lot of manufacturers. It isn't now.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
So, another example of a government using tax payers money to bribe a few tax payers into buying something. If these things really are such a good idea, there should be no need to bribe people into switching to them.
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Honestly, you don't give up on this, do you?

Out of interest, how big a bribe would you need to make you but an EV?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Honestly, you don't give up on this, do you?
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Nor, it seems, do you.
JonathanRyan said:
Out of interest, how big a bribe would you need to make you but an EV?
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That's easy: each electric car owner paying back every penny of the bribes they've received in government funded discounts on the purchase price, fuel duty and road tax.
 
It's all about control anyway. Once you are in an EV with GPS and WiFi etc they will know exactly (and be able to eventually control exactly) where you've been, for how long, mileage, times of day you travel, the speed you drive at, restrict you from going places, certain areas etc etc

Your own car will be giving you speeding tickets :ROFLMAO:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Nor, it seems, do you.

That's easy: each electric car owner paying back every penny of the bribes they've received in government funded discounts on the purchase price, fuel duty and road tax.
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Well I hope you pay back your government bribes in things like ISAs, pension payments and any other way you legally didnt pay tax!
 
cambsno said:
Well I hope you pay back your government bribes in things like ISAs, pension payments and any other way you legally didnt pay tax!
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Don't forget to add paprika flavours crisps to that. People are getting bribed to support the paprika industry.
 
cambsno said:
Well I hope you pay back your government bribes in things like ISAs, pension payments and any other way you legally didnt pay tax!
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After you, Horace.... ;)
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
After you, Horace.... ;)
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So whenever you have had a tax break from government, I assume you have paid that back? Its just that you are so vocal about EV drivers not paying their share, I would expect those to be shouting loudest to be whiter than white?
 
cambsno said:
...I would expect those to be shouting loudest to be whiter than white?
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Oh dear!

Is that phrase permitted in these days of political correctness and suchlike? :wideyed:
 
cambsno said:
Or you could just avoid the question - which implies you have benefitted from tax breaks in the past like ISAs, pensions etc...
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Or I could just admire the question as a perfect example of whataboutery and have a good laugh... :naughty:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Or I could just admire the question as a perfect example of whataboutery and have a good laugh... :naughty:
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Well a tax break is a tax break - no idea why you are so against tax breaks for some and not others? Whataboutery? More like being a hypocrite?

What about companies that get tax breaks through various schemes - why should a company pay zero NI if they employ a veteran?

Surely if you are against people getting tax breaks you need to be against them all, unless you have a vendetta against EVs (which is probably the case)
 
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srichards said:
The Chinese car market was a nice cash cow for a lot of manufacturers. It isn't now.
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yep, most big car makers were offloading there "crap" for years in China and now they have said no chance, personally it is the smart move for them the EU and the rest of the world have to either compete or be swamped, people want good clever EVs there is no doubt about that
 
cambsno said:
Well a tax break is a tax break - no idea why you are so against tax breaks for some and not others? Whataboutery? More like being a hypocrite?

What about companies that get tax breaks through various schemes - why should a company pay zero NI if they employ a veteran?

Surely if you are against people getting tax breaks you need to be against them all, unless you have a vendetta against EVs (which is probably the case)
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I was a company director for over 20 years I have actually only last month dissolved my ltd company and I can say I have used every tax break or incentive in the book to save money pay less tax or NI and not proud of it but if these things are there you use them, company car drivers pay BIK benefit in kind if they drive a company supplied car as personal bonus

I paid tons into my directors pension to not pay any TAX or NI on it, most people do salary sacrifice for this also

The top line below tells you why company car owners now drive EVs and will continue to do so,
put basically EV=2% Standard diesel type hybrid = 20%

1752506116601.png
 
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JonathanRyan said:
If you'd ever sat in an mg5 you'll know those were 172,000 very unpleasant miles :)

But an electric estate for 5 grand with a 220 range is incredible.
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One of my sons has one, he likes it, which is all that matters but . . .
Only 48K miles but it only does 170 miles on a full charge and, when he has to charge it away from home the recharge costs more per mile than petrol.

I found it OK to drive, but a lot of road/tyre/suspension noise, aggravated of course by the lack of engine noise.
 
andya700 said:
The only people who can afford to buy new electric cars (with government subsidies) are extremely well off people, the very people in society who shouldn't be getting government handouts.
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'Can afford' is relative. But you do have a point, EV initial purchase prices are high compared to ice even today but... EVs over a few years become cheaper than ice cars, cost of ownership is significantly lower than ice cars as demonstrated in the video I posted a few days ago up there ^.

Back in the 1920s a car in the uk would have cost you (google says) about £835 to buy, that's ~£47,000 in todays money but prices always fall when a product becomes popular and we see that trend in EVs now. Batteries, one of the biggest costs in any EV are dropping in price all the time while becoming ever more efficient.

All that said... The title of this thread is why are people buying EVs, not how many reasons can I think of as to why EVs are EVil as some posters would have us think.
 
Garry Edwards said:
One of my sons has one, he likes it, which is all that matters but . . .
Only 48K miles but it only does 170 miles on a full charge and, when he has to charge it away from home the recharge costs more per mile than petrol.

I found it OK to drive, but a lot of road/tyre/suspension noise, aggravated of course by the lack of engine noise.
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Like everything else, you buy better quality, you get better quality. If purchase price is your main driver then there will be down sides that you have to accept.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Or I could just admire the question as a perfect example of whataboutery and have a good laugh... :naughty:
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Or on another note, what car do you drive and how much is your road tax?

If you have a Fiesta and paying 195 a year (or even one of the 30 a year vehicles like the Mercedes GLA, obviously only specific models) are you not guilty of accepting government bribes instead of driving a car at the highest band of tax?

If I was to buy a new Tesla 3 now in white and pay 195 in tax, am I guilty of accepting government bribes by not buying the Tesla 3 with red paint which costs over 600 in tax? Same car, same weight (i.e. causing damage to roads)?
 
Good news grants coming for EVs
 
In answer to cambsno question I drive a Honda S2000, just renewed my road tax and it was £735 for a year, earlier models with the same engine and emissions are approx 1/3 and 2/3rds cheaper, government tax anomaly, about the cost the cost of a daily paper but worth every penny for smiles per mile. The car is 2009 reg and we have no plans to change until it breaks completely, that may be about the same time I break too.
 
Mr Bump said:
Good news grants coming for EVs
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Better news is that people are, quite rightly, saying that "the government's critics say the taxpayer should not be footing the bill in the first place".

Perhaps electric cars should have a special rate for Vehicle Excise Duty that reflects the Fuel Duty being stolen from the government's tax take by home chargers. After all, the cars still need roads to drive on and electric cars probably contribute much the same wear to the roads as other cars.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Better news is that people are, quite rightly, saying that "the government's critics say the taxpayer should not be footing the bill in the first place".

Perhaps electric cars should have a special rate for Vehicle Excise Duty that reflects the Fuel Duty being stolen from the government's tax take by home chargers. After all, the cars still need roads to drive on and electric cars probably contribute much the same wear to the roads as other cars.
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Come back with that one when the subsidies have been removed, and paid back, by the fossil fuel industry.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Better news is that people are, quite rightly, saying that "the government's critics say the taxpayer should not be footing the bill in the first place".

Perhaps electric cars should have a special rate for Vehicle Excise Duty that reflects the Fuel Duty being stolen from the government's tax take by home chargers. After all, the cars still need roads to drive on and electric cars probably contribute much the same wear to the roads as other cars.
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nope people should receive incentives for adopting green tech like also heat pumps.
dirty fuel users (me included) contribute to bad air health which leads to increased costs for the NHS so money spent on clean energy is saved on the NHS in future years.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Better news is that people are, quite rightly, saying that "the government's critics say the taxpayer should not be footing the bill in the first place".

Perhaps electric cars should have a special rate for Vehicle Excise Duty that reflects the Fuel Duty being stolen from the government's tax take by home chargers. After all, the cars still need roads to drive on and electric cars probably contribute much the same wear to the roads as other cars.
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So why should 2 similar size ICE cars be at different rates then, and what about the fuel duty being stolen by a car driver who gets 60mpg v one who gets 30mpg?
 
Mr Bump said:
nope people should receive incentives for adopting green tech like also heat pumps.
dirty fuel users (me included) contribute to bad air health which leads to increased costs for the NHS so money spent on clean energy is saved on the NHS in future years.
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I swear if it was up to some people we would still be heating out homes with coal fires and riding horses to work!!
 
Mr Bump said:
nope people should receive incentives for adopting green tech like also heat pumps.
dirty fuel users (me included) contribute to bad air health which leads to increased costs for the NHS so money spent on clean energy is saved on the NHS in future years.
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So: in general terms, you appear to be saying that people should be bribed for "doing the right thing".

Does that imply that criminals should be paid not to "bash old ladies over the head"? Perhaps builders should receive the "not building a bad house" subsidy? It seems to follow that people who simply can't afford an electric car should receive the "Taxi Cab" subsidy to pay their costs in getting to work.

As for the assumed health costs, why have we all been paying for catalytic converters if they don't keep the exhaust of our cars clean?
 
Mr Bump said:
nope people should receive incentives for adopting green tech like also heat pumps.
dirty fuel users (me included) contribute to bad air health which leads to increased costs for the NHS so money spent on clean energy is saved on the NHS in future years.
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The problem with that is that it mainly goes to those that can afford it, in the first place. Very nice to get a subsidized EV if you can afford it in the first place. The problem is that many people can't. The same with heat pumps, firstly not all homes are suitable and even if they are there is a not an insignificant outlay.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
So: in general terms, you appear to be saying that people should be bribed for "doing the right thing".

Does that imply that criminals should be paid not to "bash old ladies over the head"? Perhaps builders should receive the "not building a bad house" subsidy? It seems to follow that people who simply can't afford an electric car should receive the "Taxi Cab" subsidy to pay their costs in getting to work.

As for the assumed health costs, why have we all been paying for catalytic converters if they don't keep the exhaust of our cars clean?
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No, the use of a bribe (or tax break) is used by governments in many ways to drive or influence behaviour. There are many tax breaks (like R&D) offered to companies to incentivise them. Gift aid - thats a bribe too!
 
Relatively EV's arn't "expensive"

New Renault 5 Electric versus New VW Golf ICE, (or similar) - same spec on both cars

Compare the prices, performance and running costs
 
BillN_33 said:
Relatively EV's arn't "expensive"

New Renault 5 Electric versus New VW Golf ICE, (or similar) - same spec on both cars

Compare the prices, performance and running costs
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The situation has changed a lot over the last 5 years, with EVs no longer solely a toy for the wealthy. Also, as they have taken up by more mainstream users, so the psychological barrier to ownership has been lowered a lot: early EV adopters attitudes were a significant inhibitor to ownership by ordinary people.

For the comparison, a Citroen C3 is closer to the R5 than a Golf, though I've no idea how the costs compare.
 
Even 5 years ago, second hand EVs were affordable.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The situation has changed a lot over the last 5 years, with EVs no longer solely a toy for the wealthy. Also, as they have taken up by more mainstream users, so the psychological barrier to ownership has been lowered a lot: early EV adopters attitudes were a significant inhibitor to ownership by ordinary people.

For the comparison, a Citroen C3 is closer to the R5 than a Golf, though I've no idea how the costs compare.
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Good point, but personally I would never buy a Citroen or, come to that, a Renault.

As I've said before, electric cars are the way forward (until a better technology comes along) and I might be tempted if it wasn't for limited range, cost of charging on the move, no home charging, low mileage, high insurance costs and my age. Any one of those would rule me out.
 
Nod said:
Even 5 years ago, second hand EVs were affordable.
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But they were often not very good, like the Zoë a colleague had with a real range of about 50 miles and the build quality of a wet paper bag. Sure you could buy a Tesla, but they were still expensive.
 
ancient_mariner said:
But they were often not very good, like the Zoë a colleague had with a real range of about 50 miles and the build quality of a wet paper bag. Sure you could buy a Tesla, but they were still expensive.
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As with everything there are/were good and bad. Even now the BMW i3 is a great car and can be had for little money, it's also possible to upgrade the battery cheaply to give it nearer modern day car range. I saw a video on YT about somebody (James Clevely from the video a few days ago) buying a 240k miles MG ZS ex taxi for I think £2.5k it needed a couple of hundred pounds worth of work done (guy is an EV service business owner), that's a good family car with decent if not huge range for less than £3k.

Early Zoes were terrible for tripping off chargers, they had 43kw ac chargers in them and it was just too much for a lot of chargers.
 
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