Why are people buying electric cars?

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The European car industry spent big on developing the best internal combustion engine, they then tried to hold on to that technology while the Chinese could see the future and spent on battery technology.

The issue is the Europeans are now having to play catch up at huge cost, their shareholders don't like that and are trying to persuade governments to roll back time.

A little like the UK in the 40s 50s, we made brilliant steam trains and stuck to that while everyone else moved on, it was our industry that collapsed while those making modern tech trains thrived long-term.
 
mj4456 said:
If the production of ice cars is stopped in 2030/35? there will still be a huge amount of second hand ice cars available to the public, possibly at knock down prices, will this mean ev sales will still have stalled or will there be another incentive to buy battery offered?
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I keep saying this but an electric car in 10 years will be totally different than today. The real innovation that's happening in the EV sector will see to that. The big bogeymen of range and price will not be the factor they are now. In 10 years nobody but a true petrol head will want an ice car.
 
The motor industry say sale are flagging, people are not buying EVs.

Well it's not because of EVs, maybe if they hadn't tried to claw back the COVID losses by raising the price 50% in 5 years they sell a few more.

A Ford Focus at £30k, the cheapest car Ford sell is over £26k, what the hell did they expect, and it's not just Ford.
 
Nod said:
With the number of wet belt engines around, can future supplies of ICE be guaranteed?
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Yes those have a built in obsolescence there is a lot of very old car and motorbike engines still running well, just cant see the same for those wet belt engines
 
Delphin said:
The motor industry say sale are flagging, people are not buying EVs.

Well it's not because of EVs, maybe if they hadn't tried to claw back the COVID losses by raising the price 50% in 5 years they sell a few more.

A Ford Focus at £30k, the cheapest car Ford sell is over £26k, what the hell did they expect, and it's not just Ford.
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Yes prices even for basic cars is mad now, we paid £12K new for our Yaris about 6 years ago , maybe a bit longer memory isn’t brilliant admittedly it was pre registered reduced they are around £27 K now :oops: :$
 
£12k will get you an ordinary used car nowadays...
 
LCPete said:
Yes prices even for basic cars is mad now, we paid £12K new for our Yaris about 6 years ago , maybe a bit longer memory isn’t brilliant admittedly it was pre registered reduced they are around £27 K now :oops: :$
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£27k for a Yaris?!!! Crickey. Feels like car prices are going up faster than house prices.
 
Why do people feel like they need a brand new car, even if they spend 3x for a car thats 3x worse than they could otherwise get....?

I possibly just bought my last ever diesel... If i keep it for long enough. Battery tech should be great by 2030 or even before then. The new catl sodium battery promises much reduced prices and much better stability (no more fires)
 
Nod said:
With the number of wet belt engines around, can future supplies of ICE be guaranteed?
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I was horrified when I first heard about "wet belt engines", but then realised that it was something which was linked to built in obsolescence. You can look after a cambelt/timing chain engine with good maintenance, but the wet belt engines are a ticking time bomb, once they give up the ghost, your car is dead.
 
Pound Coin said:
£12k will get you an ordinary used car nowadays...
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Which is a price which I will not pay. Both our current cars cost £3K - 2008 Alfa GT in 2017 and 2005 Skoda Octavia in 2012. The Skoda has done 230K and is knackered, the Alfa 130K and touch wood, running sweet. I would be buying a £5K car, doing all the suspension, major service and keep it going for 10-15 years.
 
The only electric car that interests me is Mazda's range extender, modest battery but with a petrol generator. Hopefully they roll it out to a future Mazda 6. Going to hold onto my Mondeo Mk5 diesel for as long as possible though, 105k so far and going strong.
 
gman said:
£27k for a Yaris?!!! Crickey. Feels like car prices are going up faster than house prices.
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Just Checked online I wasn’t quite accurate the price varies between £23.5 K and 30K although the one in our dealers the other week was 27
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Why do people feel like they need a brand new car, even if they spend 3x for a car thats 3x worse than they could otherwise get....?

I possibly just bought my last ever diesel... If i keep it for long enough. Battery tech should be great by 2030 or even before then. The new catl sodium battery promises much reduced prices and much better stability (no more fires)
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Know what you are saying but in our case its not having confidence/mechanical knowledge to buy a used after buying a car many years ago that had dangerous faults with its brakes
At least with a new car you know its all ok and we do keep our cars for a long time so the depreciation isn’t such an issue
 
LCPete said:
At least with a new car you know its all ok and we do keep our cars for a long time so the depreciation isn’t such an issue
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My "retirement car" was bought as an ex-demonstrator, with 9,000 miles on the clock.

It's now ten years old and has still only done 14,500 miles. I promised myself I wasn't going to do 2,000 miles a month ever again, once I stopped work.

I've not broken that promise yet! :naughty:
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Why do people feel like they need a brand new car, even if they spend 3x for a car thats 3x worse than they could otherwise get....?

I possibly just bought my last ever diesel... If i keep it for long enough. Battery tech should be great by 2030 or even before then. The new catl sodium battery promises much reduced prices and much better stability (no more fires)
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I've always gone for used cars with only one exception, which was a business lease. But as you say, going used often gives access to higher specs cars for less money.

Pete raises a good point though, I do all the servicing and most of any maintenance and repair work myself and I've also got access to a mechanic friend and facilities for more involved stuff, so the risks for me are perhaps less when going used. Admittedly, I am less enthusiastic these days to get the tools out, but my drive (excuse the pun) when it comes to car stuff to ensure things are done and done right keeps me active on them.
 
Can't see any engine under my bonnet! Not even a dipstick (easy to check on the dash though.)

Bikes all get oil and filters yearly at home.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
My "retirement car" was bought as an ex-demonstrator, with 9,000 miles on the clock.

It's now ten years old and has still only done 14,500 miles. I promised myself I wasn't going to do 2,000 miles a month ever again, once I stopped work.

I've not broken that promise yet! :naughty:
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It's a calculation my father did a long time ago, and with so little mileage it's cheaper to use a taxi, than paying insurance, maintenance, tax, fuel.

You just loose a little bit of independence, (you can't nip out on the spur of the moment)
 
LCPete said:
Know what you are saying but in our case its not having confidence/mechanical knowledge to buy a used after buying a car many years ago that had dangerous faults with its brakes
At least with a new car you know its all ok and we do keep our cars for a long time so the depreciation isn’t such an issue
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Even a complete brake replacement is just a small fraction of a new car cost. As you pointed out you need to reset the baseline of a used car by visiting a trustworthy garage and getting all important services done on day 2.

I could easily argue a new car can become quite dangerous by 3 years old if again not inspected and serviced by trustworthy garage. You are not even getting mots in that time lol
 
Delphin said:
It's a calculation my father did a long time ago, and with so little mileage it's cheaper to use a taxi, than paying insurance, maintenance, tax, fuel.

You just loose a little bit of independence, (you can't nip out on the spur of the moment)
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When you live in a rural area, taxis are not very practical.

While we're lucky enough to have a reasonable bus service, my wife now has severe hip difficulties, so a car is non optional these days.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I see BYD have the fastest production car ever now.
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Just watched the video, and he takes his hands off the steering wheel to celebrate at 325kph :oops: :$

I would imagine, just like the Bugatti Veyron, at top speed the range is limited (if I remember right the Veyron was around 50 miles)
 
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JonathanRyan said:
I see BYD have the fastest production car ever now.
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It's a nice looking car, I had to look it up and it was a German designer who used to work for Audi, Lamborghini and Alpha Romeo, so that perhaps explains it.

The DiSus-X suspension is pretty cool. I've seen the magic carpet ride in things like the Audi S8 (I think it was that, maybe it was the A8) and the adaptive style is fairly common, but I believe this takes things to whole new innovative levels.

Whilst being a limited run, a launch price of €215k suggests to me that there's some serious competition now with BYD and the European players are going to have to seriously up their game and reduce their prices! lol


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cBv6jg-JNU
 
Steep said:
I keep saying this but an electric car in 10 years will be totally different than today. The real innovation that's happening in the EV sector will see to that. The big bogeymen of range and price will not be the factor they are now. In 10 years nobody but a true petrol head will want an ice car.
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I could not care whether my car runs on petrol, electric or virgin blood - all I know is that driving an EV is so much more fun than driving a petrol car (unless you are in the 1% that owns an Aston, Porsche, Ferrari etc..) - Instant acceleration, easy to drive... I don't get those that say they would NEVER have an EV. Taking aside the financial aspect - WHY? If you were given 20/30/50k today and told you had to replace your current car, why would you go for ICE (am thinking of the average driver, not ones that drive 300 miles a day, tow caravans, live in rural scotland, need to go off road etc...)
 
cambsno said:
I could not care whether my car runs on petrol, electric or virgin blood - all I know is that driving an EV is so much more fun than driving a petrol car (unless you are in the 1% that owns an Aston, Porsche, Ferrari etc..) - Instant acceleration, easy to drive... I don't get those that say they would NEVER have an EV. Taking aside the financial aspect - WHY? If you were given 20/30/50k today and told you had to replace your current car, why would you go for ICE (am thinking of the average driver, not ones that drive 300 miles a day, tow caravans, live in rural scotland, need to go off road etc...)
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You would take ICE if you are:
  1. in the lower end of used market
  2. Don't have a driveway at home and thus can't charge at preferable rates
  3. Don't want fires or mega expensive battery pack replacements of the older gen EVs. They are getting there though.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
You would take ICE if you are:
  1. in the lower end of used market
  2. Don't have a driveway at home and thus can't charge at preferable rates
  3. Don't want fires or mega expensive battery pack replacements of the older gen EVs. They are getting there though.
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4. Amator Machinarium: a nice exhaust note

1758729189712.png
 
LongLensPhotography said:
You would take ICE if you are:
  1. in the lower end of used market
  2. Don't have a driveway at home and thus can't charge at preferable rates
  3. Don't want fires or mega expensive battery pack replacements of the older gen EVs. They are getting there though.
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You do know that the FACTS show an ICE is far more likely to catch fire than an EV
 
cambsno said:
You do know that the FACTS show an ICE is far more likely to catch fire than an EV
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petrol ones can indeed be dodgy. I don't like petrol at all. I can't stand having to inhale even a whiff of it at the filling station. Diesel is pretty safe in comparison. Even if you get a fire due to extremely dodgy engine or wiring, it will take a pretty long time to get out of control. Li / Ni / Mn chemistry batteries (the old ones) give you about 7-9s to get the hell out or you are roast. You typically need a nasty impact or flooding to set it off. Are you... 100% sure.... this will never happen to you? There are also fires caused by battery fault during charging. Very recently a nice Mercedes burnt the whole house down.
 
cambsno said:
I could not care whether my car runs on petrol, electric or virgin blood - all I know is that driving an EV is so much more fun than driving a petrol car (unless you are in the 1% that owns an Aston, Porsche, Ferrari etc..) - Instant acceleration, easy to drive... I don't get those that say they would NEVER have an EV. Taking aside the financial aspect - WHY? If you were given 20/30/50k today and told you had to replace your current car, why would you go for ICE (am thinking of the average driver, not ones that drive 300 miles a day, tow caravans, live in rural scotland, need to go off road etc...)
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Always buy used cars for under 20k so would be competing with them on equipment.
I occasionally do some 300+ mile each way drives within a day, with limited access to charging points.
Parked on the road so no access to home charging.
I keep my cars for 20 years usually, what are the batteries like at 20 years.

All i ever see is people compare price based on electric cost per mile, but always fail to take into account the cost of the car over the total ownership. If an EV cost even 50% more to buy its got to make back £10k over 20 years, thats £1000 a year or approx £83 a month, thats pretty much my current fuel bill if not a bit more, and that's with using public chargers, which i hear pretty much makes them more expensive than petrol anyway. So how is it cheaper?

I imagine they're brilliant if you can charge at home and do a lot of short runs at slower speeds.
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
petrol ones can indeed be dodgy. I don't like petrol at all. I can't stand having to inhale even a whiff of it at the filling station. Diesel is pretty safe in comparison. Even if you get a fire due to extremely dodgy engine or wiring, it will take a pretty long time to get out of control. Li / Ni / Mn chemistry batteries (the old ones) give you about 7-9s to get the hell out or you are roast. You typically need a nasty impact or flooding to set it off. Are you... 100% sure.... this will never happen to you? There are also fires caused by battery fault during charging. Very recently a nice Mercedes burnt the whole house down.
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Very recently a nice mercedes Did Not burn a house down. A year ago an sqa caught fire in a driveway and scorched the garage door.

In 2023 there were 277 car fires, of which 275 were ice and only 2 were ev's the Fire service in England said.

In the last 2 years worldwide there have been 3 EV crashes where the occupants died, all 3 involved fire, none of them said the fire was the cause of death.

Lastly diesel may be safer in terms of fire but are you 100% sure it's not giving you or your passengers, or the people you pass cancer?
 
LongLensPhotography said:
petrol ones can indeed be dodgy. I don't like petrol at all. I can't stand having to inhale even a whiff of it at the filling station. Diesel is pretty safe in comparison. Even if you get a fire due to extremely dodgy engine or wiring, it will take a pretty long time to get out of control. Li / Ni / Mn chemistry batteries (the old ones) give you about 7-9s to get the hell out or you are roast. You typically need a nasty impact or flooding to set it off. Are you... 100% sure.... this will never happen to you? There are also fires caused by battery fault during charging. Very recently a nice Mercedes burnt the whole house down.
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Until recently I had a petrol lawn mower. By far the most dangerous thing in my garage.
 
Steep said:
In 2023 there were 277 car fires, of which 275 were ice and only 2 were ev's the Fire service in England said.
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This may be accurate but it ignores not one but two pachyderms in the centre of the room.

The first is that there are far fewer electric cars on British than there are Diesel or petrol fueled cars and the second is that the average internal combustion car is far older than the average electric engine car. As most vehicle fires are apparently related to aging components and poor maintenance, we can expect to see more electric car fires as those vehicles age.

It is also worth noting, in this context, that there are claimed to be 20,000 or more domestic fires caused by electric devices in the UK every year...


Steep said:
Lastly diesel may be safer in terms of fire but are you 100% sure it's not giving you or your passengers, or the people you pass cancer?
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No one is 100% sure of anything, when it comes to chaos and cancer is pretty much the definition of biological chaos.
 
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Steep said:
Lastly diesel may be safer in terms of fire but are you 100% sure it's not giving you or your passengers, or the people you pass cancer?
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Petrol is a lot more toxic for a simple reason it is much more volatile and also many cars especially older ones like to inject far more than they burn.
You are definitely better off not waking anywhere except deep countryside because there will be diesel vehicles, petrol vehicles and your chance of getting cancer due to them is certainly not 0%. Whats is it worth to you to avoid it?
 
Steep said:
Recognising the difference between an unregulated ebike/scooter and an electric car is important.
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I at least quoted statistics, whereas you didn't provide any links at all. You would have us believe that the numbers of EV car fires in the UK are low single figures, when in fact they are not. Electric car fires have surged by 77% in 2 years. There were 232 EV fires in 2024. Lithium-ion battery fires have increased by 93% oveall since 2022.

 
So more cars = more fires? Got it. Statistics are fun.

That article also makes it clear that fires are much more common* in big cities. You know, where more people live.

*Totally not common at all. In fact, staggeringly rare.

Btw, when I drove an ice car I literally never worried about fire. Like never. Now I'm much safer, it seems like I should worry more.
 
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