Who's the best ISP provider?

[ShoeQueen]

I'm no ADSL expert but... What does http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

report as your expected speeds. Also, can you log into the modem and see what the stats are?

Thanks - not sure how to log into the modem or what stats to check but that test tells me the below. (When I check my actual tel no on TalkTalk it says I should be getting 4-6mbps).

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial check on your address indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our check also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 4.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 3Mbps and 7.5Mbps.

Our check also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 6Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 3.5Mbps and 8.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 6Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 3.5Mbps and 8.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 40 Mbps and upstream line speed of 10 Mbps.

 

[arad85]

What router (box you connect to ADSL) do you have? Make/model?

Also can you open up a DOS command prompt (Start->Run Command) and type in cmd

and then run

ipconfig /all

and post the results?

 

[ShoeQueen]

What router (box you connect to ADSL) do you have? Make/model?

Also can you open up a DOS command prompt (Start->Run Command) and type in cmd

and then run

ipconfig /all

and post the results?

Its an Echolife HG520s.

Not sure if I've done the DOS thing correctly - just gives the IP address (eg the 192. etc stuff).

I've tried checking all the router settings are what they should be and they seem to be, I've tried only having the router plugged in, I've tried both filters I have. None of it makes any difference. I've registered in the TalkTalk forums and posted there in the hope that someone can help. But I don't think I want to stay with TalkTalk anyway, given their attitude when last I rang up about it...

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm afraid I've sidetracked the thread a little - but its sort of on topic - or perhaps its more like 'What's the worse ISP provider?'...

 

[arad85]

Changing ISP may not do anything as they all use the bit of copper from your house to the exchange and if there is a problem there, it will go with you when you move.

Have a look here: http://help.talktalk.co.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/1411/~/setting-up-your-huawei-echolife-hg520s

In points 4 and 5 you can see the modem status. It's the bit in the table marked ADSL and Description at the bottom right of the picture.

Can you post the ADSL stats including Bandwidth Down/Up, SNR margin etc... so that I can see what the modem is connecting at. Please post ALL the ADSL stats on that page - even if you don't think they are important...

 

[tdodd]

It might also be worth checking the external telephone wiring leading into the house. When I had the nail punched through my phone line, causing all sorts of problems, my ADSL stability actually improved when the phone was off the hook. Bizarre for sure, but not dissimilar to your case, Lynn, where disconnecting everything but the router actually made things worse and adding them back made a slight improvement.

Do you hear any hiss or crackle when using the phone? It might be worth having BT or TT run a fault test on the line to see if they can pick anything up. But also do the checks Andy mentions, to get the router line stats.

 

[ShoeQueen]

Changing ISP may not do anything as they all use the bit of copper from your house to the exchange and if there is a problem there, it will go with you when you move.

I am a bit concerned about that, though I've never had any problems with the phone line. If I changed to Virgin though I'd get a cable and that would overcome that problem and if I went back to BT hopefully they'd check the line for me?

Can you post the ADSL stats including Bandwidth Down/Up, SNR margin etc... so that I can see what the modem is connecting at. Please post ALL the ADSL stats on that page - even if you don't think they are important...

ADSL Description
ADSL State Show Time
Data Path Interleaved
Operation Mode ADSL2
Max. Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 3252 / 1056
Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 258 / 251
SNR Margin Down/Up(dB) 27.0 / 30.2
Attenuation Down/Up(dB) 48.0 / 29.2
Power Down/Up(dBm) 0.0 / 12.3
CRC Down/Up 2/ 65504
FEC Down/Up 789/ 0
HEC Down/Up 1/ 0
System Up Time 22:22:57
DSL Up Time 12:06:07
PVC Select
PPP Up Time 9:42:45

 

[ShoeQueen]

It might also be worth checking the external telephone wiring leading into the house. When I had the nail punched through my phone line, causing all sorts of problems, my ADSL stability actually improved when the phone was off the hook. Bizarre for sure, but not dissimilar to your case, Lynn, where disconnecting everything but the router actually made things worse and adding them back made a slight improvement.

Do you hear any hiss or crackle when using the phone? It might be worth having BT or TT run a fault test on the line to see if they can pick anything up. But also do the checks Andy mentions, to get the router line stats.

One time I was having connection problems and when on the phone to TalkTalk it improved and they said that always happened - when you were using the phone the line was more stable? It doesn't make any difference to it now though - I've tried lifting the phone off the hook. And I have a good, clear phone line when making calls. I have a very stable internet connection, it never disconnects (though I did have that problem in the past).

I suppose I always just thought I was too far from the exchange, on a cheap deal etc... and its only been since I've been into photography and wanting to start to watch some of the video resources on the web etc that I looked into it more. And did speed tests and looked at what TalkTalk and BT said I should be able to get at my address.

Thanks guys for the help - its much appreciated.

 

[sep9001]

One time I was having connection problems and when on the phone to TalkTalk it improved and they said that always happened - when you were using the phone the line was more stable? It doesn't make any difference to it now though - I've tried lifting the phone off the hook. And I have a good, clear phone line when making calls. I have a very stable internet connection, it never disconnects (though I did have that problem in the past).

I suppose I always just thought I was too far from the exchange, on a cheap deal etc... and its only been since I've been into photography and wanting to start to watch some of the video resources on the web etc that I looked into it more. And did speed tests and looked at what TalkTalk and BT said I should be able to get at my address.

Thanks guys for the help - its much appreciated.

Have a look here

hxxp://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13568/~/fault-testing-with-a-master-socket

and see if that improves anything.

 

[arad85]

Max. Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 3252 / 1056
Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 258 / 251
SNR Margin Down/Up(dB) 27.0 / 30.2
Attenuation Down/Up(dB) 48.0 / 29.2

And your problem is there.... Basically, ADSL works by sending a signal of known size to your house. The box sees how much signal is lost (the further away you are, the more signal is lost) and calculates the loss in deciBels (or dB). From the reading there, it sees that you lose 48dB because of your distance from the exchange. What the system also does is give you a margin to allow the signal to fluctuate - my margins are 6dB, yours is 27 dB which is HUGE. Consequently, the system is only syncing you at 258kbits/s down where if the margin were lower, you would get much higher. This isn't about a poor congested ISP provider, but your line to the exchange not syncing at a high enough speed.

The first thing you will have to do is take all phones out of all sockets, isolate any extensions and plug your modem/filter into the BT master socket (if the computer is wireless, only the router needs to be moved - you won't be doing a speed test). If you have one of the newer BT master sockets (see this link http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/bt-master-socket.html for identification) where the bottom half is user removable as shown in the expanded diagram in Step 3 on the page I linked to, you are best removing that and inserting your modem/filter into the uncovered socket. Redo the test s above and see what the bandwidth down/up is and what the SNR margin is (the first should be somewhere between 6 and 12). If it is as you've shown above there are two possibilities:

1) A problem with the configuration of the line - something has set the equipment in the exchange to give you a massive buffer for changing signals. This might be a mistake or it might be because of 2)
2) A problem with the line back to BT that causes its quality to fluctuate wildly during the day causing something at the exchange to set a massive buffer for changing signals

Basically, if you plug your router into the Master Socket and those figures stay the same, there is a problem that BT/your ISP have to fix. Start with your ISP and ask them why your profile has such a high signal to noise ratio on it. They should be able to look (or get someone to look) at what the equipment in the exchange is doing.

There is also the possibility you are still on one of the old ADSL profiles. My attenuation runs at 54dB (yours is 47) and I get 4Mbit/sec. With a 48dB loss, I'd expect you to get between 4 and 5 Mbits/sec down, but if your modem is configured for the wrong type, you will get slightly lower speeds.

Apologies if this is all gobbledy gook... but you're going to have to isolate the problem (internal wiring vs from the master socket) and tell your ISP/BT to sort out the fault (assuming it's outside the house).

 

[Andyvalver]

I'm with virgin and for me they are the best for me. I'm on the 30mb package and it's super fast and never seems to let me down.

Virgin to traffic shape at peak times but it's only if you download a certain amount. They are upgrading their speeds for free soon too. Come July mine is going to 60mb at no extra cost. People on 50mb are going to 100mb and people who bought 100mb are going to 120mb . That means also you get a higher download threshold before its traffic shaped. You need to be downloading lots to even notice. I can't say I ever have and I download all sorts of movies/tv shows

 

[ShoeQueen]

Apologies if this is all gobbledy gook... but you're going to have to isolate the problem (internal wiring vs from the master socket) and tell your ISP/BT to sort out the fault (assuming it's outside the house).

Thanks Andy - really appreciate you taking the time to explain all that to me. I know nothing about broadband and ADSL (as you've probably gathered by now) so have plenty to learn. Just home from work so will look at it all again tomorrow following your suggestions - try to see if anything I can do changes it but I suspect its either a fault on the line or problem with my ISP or both.

 

[ShoeQueen]

The first thing you will have to do is take all phones out of all sockets, isolate any extensions and plug your modem/filter into the BT master socket (if the computer is wireless, only the router needs to be moved - you won't be doing a speed test). If you have one of the newer BT master sockets (see this link http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/bt-master-socket.html for identification) where the bottom half is user removable as shown in the expanded diagram in Step 3 on the page I linked to, you are best removing that and inserting your modem/filter into the uncovered socket. Redo the test s above and see what the bandwidth down/up is and what the SNR margin is (the first should be somewhere between 6 and 12).

I've checked and I do have the split NTE5 socket so I've removed the front plate and plugged the modem with filter into the test socket.

Redoing the test I get..

Max. Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 3448 / 1068
Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 258 / 251
SNR Margin Down/Up(dB) 27.2 / 30.9
Attenuation Down/Up(dB) 47.0 / 29.2
Power Down/Up(dBm) 0.0 / 12.3


Its the same - so does that mean I've elimated the internal wiring then? Either a fault on the line into the house or a problem with my ISP? I'm waiting on someone on the TT forum to respond - but all this information is helpful - I feel as if I'm starting to get a bit closer to the problem.

(If its a problem with the line coming into the house, would BT or TT be the ones to sort that out?)

Thanks again.

 

[arad85]

Its the same - so does that mean I've elimated the internal wiring then?

Now 99% certain it's outside your house. Unless someone has done something naughty with your wiring, removing that faceplate basically connects you to the point BT are responsible for.

I'd start with TT. I think they'll probably try and send you another router and see if it is the same. They may do a line test or they may be able to look at what the equipment in the exchange is doing. Check they haven't put a limit on the sync speed for some reason (normally stability).

Start with TT. It may take a few weeks to sort, but your line should support 10x the speed you're getting and the numbers say that. The time I had to do this, I was firm but gentle with my ISP who were the ones who sent BT out.

What is happening is you have a piece of copper from your BT socket back to the exchange. Something is wrong with that connection - it's just finding out what. Patience and persistence are virtues in this case

 

[bindex]

Best ISP?

Who knows?...

However, I went with BT quite some years ago, on the argument that as they were already providing my phone line that if they provided my Internet connection too, then at least I couldn't get the "run around" of the phone provider blaming the isp and the isp blaming the phone provider. Which of course isn't really true nowadays as they're separate companies anyway.

Overall it's worked out OK. If you do have a problem the Indian call centre is sometimes "iffy", sometimes OK, but they're definitely not top line. That's by no means a racist comment just a statement of fact, they do try, but they're clearly first line support. If you can get a problem upgraded to the next tier (usually UK based) then they are very good. I think they're based up near Newcastle somewhere not that that's important at all.

 

[ShoeQueen]

I found a different filter and tried it with that too, still no change.

I'd start with TT. I think they'll probably try and send you another router and see if it is the same. They may do a line test or they may be able to look at what the equipment in the exchange is doing. Check they haven't put a limit on the sync speed for some reason (normally stability).

I did ring them about a month ago and was put through to a call centre (in India I think) and was told that my line was set quite slow to keep it stable and they could change something on my line, but not til I had agreed to an engineer call out which could cost £50 (if there was any problem at my end - even if that was with the modem they had supplied!). I felt it was unfair that they couldn't make adjustments to the line first to see if that helped and they said they couldn't put a request through to do that until the engineer call out was set up... which I wouldn't agree to so they refused to do anything at all.

I've now posted in their member forums and I may get more help from staff that way as I've seen other posts where they've been able to check lines for people and make adjustments.

What is happening is you have a piece of copper from your BT socket back to the exchange. Something is wrong with that connection - it's just finding out what. Patience and persistence are virtues in this case

I'm reaching the end of my patience with TT - I suspect it may be a case of switching to BT or Virgin!

Andy you've been really helpful and I now understand a bit about how it all works, which I didn't this morning! I know I have a test socket and I know how to look some details up about my router (even if I don't really understand what they mean!).

 

[tdodd]

SNR Margin Down/Up(dB) 27.2 / 30.9
Attenuation Down/Up(dB) 47.0 / 29.2

Speaking as a layman those stats do look very fishy. For comparison, not that it means a great deal, my equivalent stats are....

ADSL Link____________Downstream_____Upstream
Connection Speed______8275 kbps______938 kbps
Line Attenuation_______41.5 db_________24.1 db
Noise Margin__________7.5 db__________7.1 db

You have a very high SNR (which is great) and a very low line speed (which is terrible), which means (I think) that someone or something is deliberately throttling your line. My understanding is that as you raise the line speed the noise margin decreases, until you reach a point where the line quality will not support the speed reliably. You have a huge noise margin, which means the speeds on your line are set extremely conservatively, to the point of absurdity and beyond. The question is - why is your speed set so low?

I think the problem lies fairly and squarely with TT. They need to pull their finger out, retest your line and see what sync speeds the line is capable of safely supporting. I can't see any need for a home visit by anyone - unless it's their router that is FUBAR. My guess is your speed has been restricted at the exchange end. God only knows why.

 

[ShoeQueen]

You have a very high SNR (which is great) and a very low line speed (which is terrible), which means (I think) that someone or something is deliberately throttling your line. My understanding is that as you raise the line speed the noise margin decreases, until you reach a point where the line quality will not support the speed reliably. You have a huge noise margin, which means the speeds on your line are set extremely conservatively, to the point of absurdity and beyond. The question is - why is your speed set so low?

Thanks Tim. This is the question I need answered by TT. If its just the router then that would be easy to sort with a new one, but I think its a problem with the speed TT are supplying. If there is a problem with stablity on the line I need to know why in case its an issue that will persist if I change to BT. (I'm considering BT Infinity as an option but its currently FTTC so any problems on my actual line entering my house from the cabinet would still slow my speed?)

However, before I change ISP, I want TT to attempt to improve what they are supposed to be delivering.

 

[onomatopoeia]

I've checked and I do have the split NTE5 socket so I've removed the front plate and plugged the modem with filter into the test socket.

Redoing the test I get..

Max. Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 3448 / 1068
Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 258 / 251
SNR Margin Down/Up(dB) 27.2 / 30.9
Attenuation Down/Up(dB) 47.0 / 29.2
Power Down/Up(dBm) 0.0 / 12.3

The first line of that is the speed the modem is synced with the exchange.

The speed test you posted earlier showed 0.22Mbps down and 0.21Mbps up. That's 220kbps/210kbps, but your modem is syncing at a much higher speed. What you should see on the speed test is more like 3Mbps down and 1Mbps up given the sync speed.

So, ISP problem. Talk talk are an LLU ISP so have their own equipment at the exchange, it may be that it is limiting you to 256k each way (the BT equipment for non-LLU ISPs can do that if it thinks there are stability problems on the line, or it got set for some reason and never got cleared, so maybe TT's equipment can do the same).

Since it is a broadband problem, you have to deal with the ISP, as that's who your contract is with.

 

[ShoeQueen]

So, ISP problem. Talk talk are an LLU ISP so have their own equipment at the exchange, it may be that it is limiting you to 256k each way (the BT equipment for non-LLU ISPs can do that if it thinks there are stability problems on the line, or it got set for some reason and never got cleared, so maybe TT's equipment can do the same).

Since it is a broadband problem, you have to deal with the ISP, as that's who your contract is with.

Thanks Mark. If TT won't/can't resolve the problem (my attempt through their forum is my last one, I'm not phoning them again as it never seems to make any difference - I just get passed around from person to person who read from a script) I plan to change ISP - I need to try and identify the problem so I can make sure it isn't going to be just as bad with eg BT (as I don't think their telephone support is much better than TT). Plus I don't want to pay more for eg BT Infinity, and still be getting poor speeds due to a line problem.

 

[alix]

iv with vergin media and never realy had a problem with them bar one time some one stole huge chuck of there fiberoptic wire

 

[ShoeQueen]

Thanks Mark. If TT won't/can't resolve the problem (my attempt through their forum is my last one, I'm not phoning them again as it never seems to make any difference - I just get passed around from person to person who read from a script)...

Posting on their forum is definitely better than phoning! They've made a change to my line and the result is below. They'll monitor that to see how the connection stats compare.

This is what I'm now getting

[URL=http://www.speedtest.net][/URL]

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[tdodd]

Congrats!

 

[arad85]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ShoeQueen]

Congrats!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys for your help. Much appreciated and good to have it explained in a way that I could begin to understand.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Result . Glad it's sorted.

 

[ShoeQueen]

Thanks. They speeded it up again and I was getting 4Mb but that was still in the test socket - when I reconnected via the master socket instead it dropped a bit back to 3.30Mb.

It doesn't make any difference if I have another phone plugged into the extension socket or not (I tried that) - is it just because I have two extensions (I'm only using one)? Its still reasonable speeds so I don't mind too much and its been stable so far.

 

[nigpd]

Bringing this thread full circle and back on topic , I'm going with BT.

Thanks for all the suggestions, help, insight and opinions

 

[ShoeQueen]

Bringing this thread full circle and back on topic , I'm going with BT.

Thanks for all the suggestions, help, insight and opinions

Sorry Nige for the off topic meandering!

I'm changing ISP as I want fibre and I think I'll be going with BT too.

 

[nigpd]

no probs Lynn, there was some good info in the thread and I learnt quite a bit that may be useful in the future.

Hope we both enjoy what BT has to offer