Who owns the Copyright?

roglowe

roglowe

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Roger Lowe
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Hi All,

If a Model pays me to take photographs of her and in the deal she chooses 5 images for her portfolio to show agents can a magazine or any other publication use the images without my consent?

Nothing in writing or signed here by the way.

:thinking:
 
I'm pretty sure she does but I'm sure someone who is more in the know will be along shortly

I only say that because when I was doing Graphic Design, we were told that any work we were paid to do for someone else was theirs
 
roglowe said:
Hi All,

If a Model pays me to take photographs of her and in the deal she chooses 5 images for her portfolio to show agents can a magazine or any other publication use the images without my consent?

Nothing in writing or signed here by the way.

:thinking:
Click to expand...

I would have thought not, as unless you have signed over the copyright the image is your property and as you have said no contracts have been signed that tells me you have not signed over the copyright ;)

Matt
MWHCVT
 
You as the photographer own the copyright, and as part of the deal you grant her a 'licence' to use 5 images as she sees fit (eg on her model website profile). The other magazines/publications will need your permission (in exchange for some money!) to use the images, because the deal between you and the model is just that - between you and the model, nobody else!

In some ways it's a bit like a family going for a photoshoot, they will initially pay the photographer for their time taking the photographs, and afterwards a 'deal' is agreed on in form of payment in exchange for prints or usage rights
 
Huge apologies for being totally and utterly wrong
 
Iris said:
Huge apologies for being totally and utterly wrong
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You weren't wrong necessarily, copyright is a minefield :lol: Some deals will grant copyright to the model, but usually it's only if explicitly stated in writing, and the dotted line signed on
 
Copyright always retained by the author of works (inc photography) unless specifically signed over or the photographer is an employee of a company and is taking photos for them (doesn't include contract with a client)
 
neil_g said:
Copyright always retained by the author of works (inc photography) unless specifically signed over or the photographer is an employee of a company and is taking photos for them (doesn't include contract with a client)
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Someone here pointed out to me the other day that in Australia when the photography is for 'domestic' purposes, (wedding, portrait) the copyright goes to the client commissioning the work if its on private property. In my case I think I have to be careful with the contract wording because saying 'copyright stays with me' might not be any good if I never legally had it in the first place. I'm pretty sure you don't have that problem in the UK. In the US I believe the copyright is with the photographer but you have to register the images if you want to be able to get any money from people using them without permission.
 
OP. in this instance you own the copyright as you have not given it over to the model.you havent stated clearly whether any magazine has gone and published your images without your express written permission and if one has you have a claim against them.send them an invoice and enclose with it proof that you are the copyright holder and state clearly they have published without permission from you.allow them 30 days to pay and if they have not done so follow the 1st letter up with a warning letter that they should pay without any further delay or you will take legal proceedings to recover your fee and costs.
perhaps 1st you should also notify the model that when shooting her and even though she paid for the shoot you have not assigned copyright to her and she had no rights to give permission to the magazine (who really should have checked anyway)
you could avoid taking legal proceedings even at this stage by offering to sell her a limited copyright or even full copyright assignment which would allow her to do as she wishes,and this might help avoid any hurt and frustration you might be feeling,and avoid embarresment to the model too.

if you do decide to sell,perhaps you should not be too greedy in your expectations as you have already earned from the initial shoot and unless the model is 'famous' or you are a renowned photographer the images would soon pass on into the history of zillions of forgotton images anyway.


peter
 
Thanks people. I seem to agree with lens flair and Neil G.
So how does it work if you want to use the images you have taken for promotion I.E on the web, facebook etc. Will you need a release form from the model? I can imagine you would.

Thanks for the help.
 
Nope. No model release required in the UK, especially for your own material.
 
My understanding is that the copyright remains with the photographer unless you relinquish or give license to your model.
 
craiguk said:
My understanding is that the copyright remains with the photographer unless you relinquish or give license to your model.
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Photographer retains copyright even when 'licensing' an image. You are just giving permission for the licensee to use photos in a pre-determined way for a pre-determined period. Never worth giving or selling your copyright. How much its worth is the million dollar question.
 
Not getting at the OP here, but this sort of thing happens all the time and it's clear that many photographers don't understand copyright any better than anyone else.

The problem is, copyright can be complicated and often runs contrary to most folks' idea of natural justice. Frankly, it's hardly surprising that a model thinks she can use the images how she wants, considering that they are of her and would obviously not exist without her input.

And in this case, she even paid to have them taken! The moral rights are at least shared 50/50.

So if you don't want your pictures used, get an agreement signed so that everyone is clear from the start. Including the photographer.
 
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It's best to sign a contract with full releases first, then move on to the shoot.

Technically, if she doesn't have the paper she can't really even use it. There could be a verbal contract, but try proving that. The copyright always stays with the creator unless explicitly stated otherwise in a contract.
 
The client owned the copyright to commissioned work in the UK by default until 1988 - 1989 (I can't remember which). The law was changed then, and the photographer now retains the copyright until he/she transfers it to someone else. Some countries still follow this rule. I used to live in South Africa, which is one of them, and most professionals have a clause in their contracts transferring the copyright to them.

Employers generally retain copyright to photographs taken by their employees in the course and scope of their employment, but there have been endless arguments about how and when this applies. I don't pretend to understand it.
 
Along this line, I met some reps from Hasselblad on one of their H4D roadshows. They let you use their equiptment and model, but shoot onto your own memory card. Now they did say that its just for evaluative purposes and that they don't want you using it for portfolios or anything else, and nor do I intend to (as they were fantastic guys and great for letting me use all their kit!)

The question I want to know is, even though I was using their camera, lighting, model and studio, I shot the images myself onto my own memory card and all the composition and instructions to the model were from myself. So strictly speaking, who would the copyright for those images belong to?
 
Jamtea said:
The question I want to know is, even though I was using their camera, lighting, model and studio, I shot the images myself onto my own memory card and all the composition and instructions to the model were from myself. So strictly speaking, who would the copyright for those images belong to?
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If you took the pictures then the copyright is yours - unless there were contractual stipulations on anything you signed saying different
 
big soft moose said:
If you took the pictures then the copyright is yours - unless there were contractual stipulations on anything you signed saying different
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Didn't sign a thing there, just told them my name and my usual kit. Like I said though, I won't be using the images except for evaluation anyway, but its good to know things like this :)
 
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