Who has solar?

Steep said:
Unfortunately for me, local rapid chargers are 30p per kwh and my home rate is now 28p.
I get mileage payments for the car and the company is pretty good in that they now adjust to match my home rate.
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EV tariff? I'm currently on 8p per kWh for 2-6am, other times 35p per kWh. Solar helps reducing regular daytime cost and big appliances (2.5 kW or more) are always used overnight.

JonathanRyan said:
They lost me at "trickiest solar panels ever" :D

Joking apart, it's a really good idea but PV panels are reasonably mature technology so are likely to last somewhere near their expected life. These look a bit too bleeding edge for me.
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Yeah, was tongue in cheek. It's going to drive up cost of install by quite a bit. TBH not something need doing here, just live with a slight reduction in power production in hotter days.
 
wyx087 said:
EV tariff? I'm currently on 8p per kWh for 2-6am, other times 35p per kWh. Solar helps reducing regular daytime cost and big appliances (2.5 kW or more) are always used overnight.
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I've yet to find one that is genuinely good value. All the ones I've looked at so far hike the daytime rate so much it negates the "cheap" night time rate. Plus I don't have either smart meter or a smart charger.
 
JonathanRyan said:
They lost me at "trickiest solar panels ever" :D

Joking apart, it's a really good idea but PV panels are reasonably mature technology so are likely to last somewhere near their expected life. These look a bit too bleeding edge for me.
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Haven’t watched the whole video (I’m not in the market for it) but does the water heating also cool the panels when too hot and improve efficiency? Also freezing pipes in Winter?
 
4tea2 said:
I'd really like to start out on this journey, but unsure where to start. I'm very keen to enure that I avoid cowboy installers etc.

I'm particularly interested in a solution that can be extended as circumstances change..... addition of EV, inclusion of air source heat pump.

Where did people get advice? I understand basics, but don't feel qualified to design an integrated energy system. I'd really like to speak to qualified engineers that can design a suitable solution starting with solar panels.

Any pointers?
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I watched some YouTube clips on green energy and solar panels recently and the guy making them said he had no affiliation but mentioned this company as decent.
first4solar.co.uk

Solar Panels & Battery Storage Installations UK | Contact Solar

Contact Solar, a solar panel company that provides and installs commercial and residential solar PV panels UK & battery storage systems.
first4solar.co.uk first4solar.co.uk

Make of that what you will. I’ve got no affiliation with them either but it might be a good place to start with enquiries?
 
Sorry @F1.2 . My earlier post in this thread was asking for tips on how to get started with finding good suppliers/designers of integrated alternative energy systems. I was referring back to this and trying to ask how you went about sourcing your installation.

Apologies for the lack of context.
 
4tea2 said:
Sorry @F1.2 . My earlier post in this thread was asking for tips on how to get started with finding good suppliers/designers of integrated alternative energy systems. I was referring back to this and trying to ask how you went about sourcing your installation.

Apologies for the lack of context.
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OK , I recently moved home from London , I have allways been concerned about the environment , Solar was a option for free energy for myself and being able to export what I don't use and store , Also get paid for energy exported , I managed to negotiate a fair discount of £1000 off the original quote , Lastly , What would the invested amount earn in a bank or building society ? basically nothing , The result was I invested , To date I have generated 928 KWH and I have used 294KWH
 
I suspect John is asking for pointers how you found the company that did the install. Perhaps would you recommend them and are they national?

As with all things, I'd get around 3 quotes. On-site free quotes are much better than "please Email us photo" quotes.

We all know the benefits of solar, not only from return on investment, but also avoid using the many banks that are still investing in fossil fuel.
 
We had solar panels installed. We do not own them. They were installed on our roof under an agreement between us and a management company.
The cost to us was nothing. They were installed and are maintained by a third party company. The management company take the government grants and insertion fees for the excess whilst we use the power for free. We have had then for 15 years now during which time they have saved us quite a lot of money. After 25 years they become ours to use as long as they continue to work. I believe that this kind of deal was quite common back then in the early days of solar but it seems to have gone out of fashion as the government money has reduced.
 
I have read that this " can " be problematic if you own the property and intend on a house move as the new buyers may not want the agreement that the roof is tied into.
 
Yes well as I reside in the Southern Hemisphere , Western Australia to be precise and to be even more definitive on the South Coast , I make full use of the sun .
 
engine driver said:
Yes well as I reside in the Southern Hemisphere , Western Australia to be precise and to be even more definitive on the South Coast , I make full use of the sun .
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Well, some of the advice in this thread won’t be a lot of use to you -- eg the necessity of a South facing roof for example :lol:
 
F1.2 said:
OK , I recently moved home from London , I have allways been concerned about the environment , Solar was a option for free energy for myself and being able to export what I don't use and store , Also get paid for energy exported , I managed to negotiate a fair discount of £1000 off the original quote , Lastly , What would the invested amount earn in a bank or building society ? basically nothing , The result was I invested , To date I have generated 928 KWH and I have used 294KWH
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Just to clarify, if you had put the money in a savings account you would still have the lump sum available.
By buying solar panels you no longer have the lump sum, you should compare solar panel returns with an annuity to get a more meaningful comparison.
Solar may still work out better and an annuity stops when you die, unless you go for a smaller payout which continues to go to a nominated spouse etc.
 
Yes well I was making a comment and in this instance not seeking advice, is that ok with you? Your tone suggests otherwise.
 
engine driver said:
Yes well I was making a comment and in this instance not seeking advice, is that ok with you? Your tone suggests otherwise.
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If you are replying to me (not obvious since you don’t quote) there was nothing offensive intended, just a comment. I don’t really see what your comment was supposed to add.

One can make “full use of the sun” wherever one is ;).
 
engine driver said:
What is wrong with you ? Are you normally like this ?
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Different cultures, different ways of expressing ourselves: it's the internet, where misunderstandings are virtually compulsory. If you think someone's having a go then just ignore it and pretend it's all a mistake. ;)
 
I have a 5.2kW system installed three years ago. The two complete years since then in 2020 I generated 5.4MWh and in 2021 5.0MWh. The difference between the years was mainly due to May 2020 which was pretty much full sun every day, I generated 900kWh in that month alone, by far my best month.

Over the course of a year my house consumes about 6000kWh, of which a third comes direct from the sun, a third from the (Tesla) battery and a third from the grid. When I had them installed I was looking at 8 year payback on the panels and 12-13 year payback on the battery, but with the increases in electricity unit prices since then that's reducing.
 
4tea2 said:
I'd really like to start out on this journey, but unsure where to start. I'm very keen to enure that I avoid cowboy installers etc.

I'm particularly interested in a solution that can be extended as circumstances change..... addition of EV, inclusion of air source heat pump.

Where did people get advice? I understand basics, but don't feel qualified to design an integrated energy system. I'd really like to speak to qualified engineers that can design a suitable solution starting with solar panels.

Any pointers?
Click to expand...

I spent some time talking to a chap at the Grand Designs Exhibition about air source heat pumps. Some things I learned:
  1. They are not cheap to run. The real benefit is that it moves your heating from gas (or worse oil) to electricity. But right now, if you are buying electricity the most optimistic projection (super insulated house etc) means it will cost a bit more to run than gas. Likely projections are currently a lot more to run. If you generate solar then it *may* be cheaper but of course, solar is plentiful at exactly the times you don't need heating.
  2. It's expensive. A new gas boiler for my house would be about £4k. An air source pump would be c£17k. I could save £5k from the grant but I'd also probably have to pay more than £17k because I have microbore. Also I don't need a new boiler.
  3. Smaller houses are cheaper to install but the grant is fixed. So if you had a tiny super insulated flat that was suitable for air source, an install might be £8K less a £5k grant - so much more attractive.
  4. They take a lot of space. Inside there's a thing like a boiler - outside there's something about the size of a small motor bike.
  5. They are noisy. Not very noisy (IIRC 42 dB) but there's a fan going constantly. They also create a draft (outdoors) so be careful where you put them.
  6. They can't produce much heat - so you totally need to start by insulating properly - and won't get the grant if you have a "normal" amount of insulation in the loft. You need a crazy amount to qualify.
Totally not suitable for me ATM but as he said probably the best time to buy if it is suitable for you because of the £5K.

FWIW I have an install date for my PV in less than 2 weeks. You can bet I let you know how it goes :)
 
The problem for heat pump adoption is gas prices vs electricity. Air source heat pump are around 3x, so gas need to be more than 1/3 the price of electricity (or leccy need to be cheaper than 3x price of gas) in order to make heat pumps make any economical sense.
(ignoring install cost for now, which is another unnecessary cost if you don't need a new boiler in the first place)

I had been keeping an eye on the gas kWh consumption of my house. Most I used in one day was 120 kWh, so that's 40 kWh with ASHP (many assumptions). It's unlikely you can buy a battery this size to time-shift to cheaper off-peak periods. So drawing from the grid, it was 3p gas vs 25p electricity before April, how could heat pump make economical sense?


Also remember, for hot water, you need to have a water tank. Due to low temperature output, you won't be able to get heat pump that delivers hot water instantly like a combi boiler (which we currently have).

I'm watching this space closely. But at the same time, I've absolutely zero plan to install anything unless my boiler goes to boiler heaven. Even then, I'm not sure this is ready in next couple of years.

Home battery, however........
 
Neighbours have just had panels installed on one side of the roof, it faces East South East but I think at times it will be in shadow from the next house up the hill, cost was circa £14k I understand, they're now retired so spend quite a lot of time out of the house, it may take a long time to recoup the cost unless they spend more time in the hot tub and have a decent capacity battery installed?
Had a call from the installers to see if we were interested but I told them to come back in a year when I see results. Living at the top of a hilly area I thought a small wind turbine might be a better idea.
 
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JonathanRyan said:
I spent some time talking to a chap at the Grand Designs Exhibition about air source heat pumps. Some things I learned:
  1. They are not cheap to run. The real benefit is that it moves your heating from gas (or worse oil) to electricity. But right now, if you are buying electricity the most optimistic projection (super insulated house etc) means it will cost a bit more to run than gas. Likely projections are currently a lot more to run. If you generate solar then it *may* be cheaper but of course, solar is plentiful at exactly the times you don't need heating.
  2. It's expensive. A new gas boiler for my house would be about £4k. An air source pump would be c£17k. I could save £5k from the grant but I'd also probably have to pay more than £17k because I have microbore. Also I don't need a new boiler.
  3. Smaller houses are cheaper to install but the grant is fixed. So if you had a tiny super insulated flat that was suitable for air source, an install might be £8K less a £5k grant - so much more attractive.
  4. They take a lot of space. Inside there's a thing like a boiler - outside there's something about the size of a small motor bike.
  5. They are noisy. Not very noisy (IIRC 42 dB) but there's a fan going constantly. They also create a draft (outdoors) so be careful where you put them.
  6. They can't produce much heat - so you totally need to start by insulating properly - and won't get the grant if you have a "normal" amount of insulation in the loft. You need a crazy amount to qualify.
Totally not suitable for me ATM but as he said probably the best time to buy if it is suitable for you because of the £5K.

FWIW I have an install date for my PV in less than 2 weeks. You can bet I let you know how it goes :)
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Interestingly, the housing association that I work for ONLY goes for ground-source heat-pumps where possible, air-source are just not viable in terms of economic savings and reliability is apparently still in question. Servicing costs are also quite substantial over boiler servicing.

Bring on Hydrogen
 
Neilc28 said:
Interestingly, the housing association that I work for ONLY goes for ground-source heat-pumps where possible, air-source are just not viable in terms of economic savings and reliability is apparently still in question. Servicing costs are also quite substantial over boiler servicing.
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Ground source seems a much better bet but I believe needs a garden so it's useless in most cities and all flats.

I can't help thinking air source is getting attention because it sounds a bit like ground source so must be similar, right? :)
 
JonathanRyan said:
Ground source seems a much better bet but I believe needs a garden so it's useless in most cities and all flats.

I can't help thinking air source is getting attention because it sounds a bit like ground source so must be similar, right? :)
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Ground source also requires a borehole of around 100-200 meters, so access to the garden via fairly large machinery is a must, not an easy retrofit!
 
Neilc28 said:
Ground source also requires a borehole of around 100-200 meters, so access to the garden via fairly large machinery is a must, not an easy retrofit!
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Ah cool - I knew it required a significant sized garden but couldn't figure out why. I guess it's the access for the machinery to bore it rather than a permanent requirement.

My neighbours had it (summary: noisier than you'd expect, used a lot of electricity and required about 2 weeks of maintenance a year - they were early adopters). They did a pretty significant rebuild of their house so I may actually not have noticed that they had a boring machine there one day :)
 
I made an enquiry about fitting solar panels as we’re in a conservation area, although our house is only 40 years old. Our local council guidance is as clear as mud. We can put them up as long as they don’t alter the appearance of the roof (huh?) and don’t face the road, which Sod’s law is the best position for us as that’s the south facing bit. That must be a very common issue? Also they can’t “alter the amenity of the area”. What does that even mean?

The building control office never answer their phone and ask you to email. The email reply just repeats the generic nonsense they’ve sent out before. And round and round we go. I thought the government were keen on getting green solutions to energy use but that message obviously hasn’t filtered down to local levels.
 
boogie man said:
I made an enquiry about fitting solar panels as we’re in a conservation area, although our house is only 40 years old. Our local council guidance is as clear as mud. We can put them up as long as they don’t alter the appearance of the roof (huh?) and don’t face the road, which Sod’s law is the best position for us as that’s the south facing bit. That must be a very common issue? Also they can’t “alter the amenity of the area”. What does that even mean?

The building control office never answer their phone and ask you to email. The email reply just repeats the generic nonsense they’ve sent out before. And round and round we go. I thought the government were keen on getting green solutions to energy use but that message obviously hasn’t filtered down to local levels.
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I surmise that rather than asking for guidance, if you make a planning application you will possibly/likely get a definitive answer because that will be a legal statement of your situation :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:
 
boogie man said:
I made an enquiry about fitting solar panels as we’re in a conservation area, although our house is only 40 years old. Our local council guidance is as clear as mud. We can put them up as long as they don’t alter the appearance of the roof (huh?) and don’t face the road, which Sod’s law is the best position for us as that’s the south facing bit. That must be a very common issue? Also they can’t “alter the amenity of the area”. What does that even mean?

The building control office never answer their phone and ask you to email. The email reply just repeats the generic nonsense they’ve sent out before. And round and round we go. I thought the government were keen on getting green solutions to energy use but that message obviously hasn’t filtered down to local levels.
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It means that you can't have solar panels on the front elevation of your roof if they are detrimental to the aesthetics of the area.
Maybe if your house has a shallow pitch roof the sight lines would be as such that anyone standing at street level would not see any PV panels so you might be able to make an argument for them that way.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
It means that you can't have solar panels on the front elevation of your roof if they are detrimental to the aesthetics of the area.
Maybe if your house has a shallow pitch roof the sight lines would be as such that anyone standing at street level would not see any PV panels so you might be able to make an argument for them that way.
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The roof has a very steep pitch so there’s no way they couldn’t be seen. In fact the only part of the roof that can’t be seen from the lane that passes the house is the north facing side, which is in shade for most of the day so…useless. I suspect Box Brownie is probably right, we’d have to put in a planning application and see where that takes us. It just annoying that the guidance is so vague and the council site is useless. Parts of the village where we live are very old and include lots of listed buildings, so I understand why permission is needed for some areas, but most of the lane where our house sits are newer builds or conversions of barns, farm buildings and an oast, so we might get lucky with permission.
 
boogie man said:
The roof has a very steep pitch so there’s no way they couldn’t be seen. In fact the only part of the roof that can’t be seen from the lane that passes the house is the north facing side, which is in shade for most of the day so…useless. I suspect Box Brownie is probably right, we’d have to put in a planning application and see where that takes us. It just annoying that the guidance is so vague and the council site is useless. Parts of the village where we live are very old and include lots of listed buildings, so I understand why permission is needed for some areas, but most of the lane where our house sits are newer builds or conversions of barns, farm buildings and an oast, so we might get lucky with permission.
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I must admit I do find solar panels very ugly, given the choice I would not want them visible on the front of my house but wouldn't mind on the rear, but it's the badly installed ones where panels are crammed on anyway they will fit, often badly around dormers, that bugs me.

These look like they would be the dream. I don't know how they compare to regular PV panels performance wise, but guaranteed to be way more expensive!

PV Slate solar slate tile | photovoltaic solar roof slates

PV Slate solar slate tiles that seamlessly blend into traditional roofs, a good alternative to Solecco, Tesla< C21e and other solar tiles
www.gb-sol.co.uk www.gb-sol.co.uk
 
Our next door neighbour hasair source heating. They say it's fine, although I don't know what they use to supplement it in the winter. Noise is present but not a problem due to the properties having thick stone walls and small windows.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
I must admit I do find solar panels very ugly, given the choice I would not want them visible on the front of my house but wouldn't mind on the rear, but it's the badly installed ones where panels are crammed on anyway they will fit, often badly around dormers, that bugs me.

These look like they would be the dream. I don't know how they compare to regular PV panels performance wise, but guaranteed to be way more expensive!

PV Slate solar slate tile | photovoltaic solar roof slates

PV Slate solar slate tiles that seamlessly blend into traditional roofs, a good alternative to Solecco, Tesla< C21e and other solar tiles
www.gb-sol.co.uk www.gb-sol.co.uk
Click to expand...
That’s a clever idea, although it wouldn’t work on our house as we’ve got terracotta tiles. Price wise it looks like it’s about 50% more than the equivalent conventional panels.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Our next door neighbour hasair source heating. They say it's fine, although I don't know what they use to supplement it in the winter. Noise is present but not a problem due to the properties having thick stone walls and small windows.
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I always suspected you lived in a castle :LOL:
 
boogie man said:
Also they can’t “alter the amenity of the area”. What does that even mean?
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Visual amenity, innit? Meaning it has to look "in keeping" with the area. It's a kind of blanket rule they use to prevent your neighbours doing something odd like painting their house pink or erecting a vast Homer Simpson on their roof.

Conservation Areas are a bit of a law unto themselves. The council's local plan will likely say that they are minded to approve any PV installations but it's possible there are different rules for the conservation area.

Here we are right on the edge of 2 conservation areas - one literally ends in the middle of the road we live on and another starts perpendicular to it 3 houses away. Since we're in neither we simply have to ask the local Lord to waive his rights under the covenant. Fortunately his estate is managed by lovely people who work closely with the council. They told me that if it doesn't need planning permission (and it doesn't) then they will permit installation. They may not even charge for their permission.
 
Been considering solar for a while now and keep coming back to DIY option, so much cheaper, only downside is no feed in tariff but done correctly that's not an issue at all.
Can start small as well, with a couple of panels.
 
robj20 said:
Been considering solar for a while now and keep coming back to DIY option, so much cheaper, only downside is no feed in tariff but done correctly that's not an issue at all.
Can start small as well, with a couple of panels.
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Keep in mind you need to pay VAT when buying them for DIY. But paying installers to install don't need to pay VAT.

Also worth remembering buying battery system alone need to pay VAT whilst installing battery system with solar don't need to pay VAT.

Grrr as I look at a modest 9.5 kWh 3 kW AC system, possibly DIY if I can find a way to lift the battery to my desired location. It's surprisingly cheap now, and it's LFP a very stable chemistry, meaning perfect for in-home use.
Everything I'd ever need for just £3610...... + 20% VAT
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GivEnergy 9.5kWh Gen2 Battery complete kit charge from Economy 7 & Octopus Go – ITS Technologies

ITS Technologies supply GivEnergy battery storage at lowest prices on the market. This AC coupled 3kW unit will charge from surplus PV generation, and also from the grid if you're on an economy 7 & Octopus Go tariff. Wi-fi comes as standard and gives access to the powerful monitoring platform...
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wyx087 said:
Keep in mind you need to pay VAT when buying them for DIY. But paying installers to install don't need to pay VAT.

Also worth remembering buying battery system alone need to pay VAT whilst installing battery system with solar don't need to pay VAT.

Grrr as I look at a modest 9.5 kWh 3 kW AC system, possibly DIY if I can find a way to lift the battery to my desired location. It's surprisingly cheap now, and it's LFP a very stable chemistry, meaning perfect for in-home use.
Everything I'd ever need for just £3610...... + 20% VAT
www.itstechnologies.shop

GivEnergy 9.5kWh Gen2 Battery complete kit charge from Economy 7 & Octopus Go – ITS Technologies

ITS Technologies supply GivEnergy battery storage at lowest prices on the market. This AC coupled 3kW unit will charge from surplus PV generation, and also from the grid if you're on an economy 7 & Octopus Go tariff. Wi-fi comes as standard and gives access to the powerful monitoring platform...
www.itstechnologies.shop www.itstechnologies.shop
Click to expand...
Even with vat it's looking to be almost half the cost of paying an installer.
Feed in tariff is no loss either when there are plenty ways to use 100% of the generated power.
 
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