Which way to go, setting-up an in-house studio?

[Wail]

Well, after years and years of putting this off it finally seems to be the time to venture into this side of photography.


A bit of background

I'm very much into nature & wildlife and have in the past year discovered the joy of architectural photography; but there is a huge challenge to get into glamour & implied nudes in my part of the world where it's practically impossible to pull off.

A friend of mine and I have been thinking of this very seriously, and have decided to give it a shot, pending we find models willing to pose for us.

We are not into photography as a business and I have no intention to do this as a business or side business. This is purely for taking our hobby to the next level.


The Objectives

For my friend, he wants to learn about using lights and venture into Portraits

For me, I want to get into glamour & implied nude body-scapes to compliment my love for nature & landscapes.


The Location

We have a spare room that can be easily converted into a studio, it's a good 6m x 5m in size, ceiling is a good 3.5m. There is ample space for a dressing room, beauty table etc.

If possible, I would like to take the models to desert locations to shoot there as well, of course capitalising on natural light as well as artificial light.


The Equipment

This is where we have an issue; what to get?

Scenario 1, As we're on Nikon gear, we thought of going with a couple of SB900, and start from there.

Scenario 2, Go with a low-cost kit something along the lines of Lencarta or Interfit.

Scenario 3, Go with something a bit more expensive Elinchrom or Bowens.

Scenario 4, Go with Visatec? Been made a very good offer from the local agent on a nice kit.

Other Accessories, We'd get a backdrop frame and a couple of backdrops to start with and then see how we'd develop that.

Remote Triggers, what to get? Go with the brand from the same manufacturer, or buy one of the low-cost China-made or Pocket Wizard?

Personally, I see myself wanting to experiment with softbox, umbrellas, snoot, beauty dish, and I'd love to get a ring-flash (love the effects from that); but haven't a clue as to which way to go? My general rule has always been, save and get the best that I can.


The Dilemma

What brand / set-up to go with? What kit to get? What approach to use? What pitfalls should I be weary of? I haven't mentioned battery packs as I haven't a clue about them, and even if I got myself up to speed I am not too sure how I'd get them shipped to this part of the world (battery being an odd thing to send via courier I'm guessing). Also to note, a lot of these items would not be readily available in my part of the world, so we'd have to order them from UK and then have them shipped here; cost of shipping can be rather prohibitive; and then there is the whole nightmare of getting things through customs.




I've read so many posts here, gone over the prices again and again and again; but am at a loss which way to go?

Which ever route we decide to take, even with the cheapest of kits, the price will pile up over the year as the cost of kit isn't the most expensive part .. the models would be!

But our dilemma is which kit set-up & accessories to buy!?

 

[m18nye]

Best advice is to go for the best you can afford.

 

[Wail]

Best advice is to go for the best you can afford.

In a sense, very true, and that's why I do when buying any photography kit; but I am not a big fan of using artificial light, not too sure I'd find suitable models, and most of all, not too sure of what pitfalls to watch out for?

For example, the Visatec are the most expensive and I haven't a clue as to where I could find their ringflash, if they make one; and then how to get it shipped to Saudi?

Also, what about the triggers? Would I go with the ones from the same brand, or settle for something cheap, or a 3rd party (Pocket Wizard)?

 

[AliB]

Talk to Tomas!

SB900's have the advantage of portability and you can take them out ito the desert with you. Disadvantage is the amount of power you would need with the light levels in the desert.

Indoors assuming you remove the option of portability then take your pick. lencarta and Interfit both use a Bowens S type fitting and it's the fitting for the modifiers you need to keep an eye on. Elinchrom and Bron use their own and they are hideously expensive for some stuff.

Tomas and Colin wrote a cracking tutorial on the options available. Have a look, some great stuff in it

 

[Wail]

Thank you very much, Alison.

I've read the tutorial you're referring to, along with all the links from there, the various start-up studio ventures on here too.

The thing is, Broncolor is expensive, but somehow the local agent has them in kits at an unbelievable price. The kit is of two heads or three, with stands, cables, and a couple of softboxes or umbrellas. That's all that's available here. My fear with going down this route is that if I want anything not in the kit (ring flash) then I'd have to fork out for the European price

From what you've said, I think I will rule out Elinchrom. I don't think they're anything up to Broncolor's standards (I could be wrong).

The other brands aren't represented in Saudi and I'd have to order from UK. I'd like to go with Bowens, but like the prices of Lencarta a lot more

SB900, very underpowered I think :shrug:; especially if I plan to go out in the desert. It's practically sunny 24/7 here .; but the only option would be a ringflash with a power pack and that's not going to be cheap whichever way I go :shake:

The problem is, there isn't anyone doing glamour in Saudi; and of course no one doing it in the desert either. So, I have no indication as to what I'd need, or what would be suitable.

Also, what about standing up to the elements? How good are each of these brands in putting up with the sand, heat, humidity (in excess of 100% in summer), etc.

 

[cowasaki]

Wail,

Evening. I've just decided on a complete Lencarta setup. You can pick one of their packages and replace items as you want to create a setup you like.

ElitePro Professional Portrait Kit at £879

2 x ElitePro 300(300Ws) Flash Heads (FLA001)
1 x ElitePro 600 (600Ws) Flash Head (FLA002)
3 x Light Stands (STA002)
2 x Standard Reflectors (MOD021)
1 x White shoot through Umbrella (UMB004)
1 x 95cm Octa Softbox SOF008
1 x 4 channel radio trigger (TRI008)
1 x 5-in-1 reflector kit (REF001)
1 x 3-head carry case (BAG001)
Each flash head also includes:
1 x protective head cap
1 x 250 watt modelling lamp
1 x mains lead (with UK plug)
1 x synch cable

Then replacing several of the items:

swap the battery radio triggers for mains (free)
upgrade the light stands to air stands (+£30)
add a couple of softbox (strip box 30cmx140cm & 70cmx140cm)
add a reflector arm
add a low wheeled stand
remove one of the reflectors and the bag (-£55 about)

This is the setup I have decided on after playing with my own kit and going to one of Lencarta's studio days.

Why not have a word with Garry Edwards from Lencarta and tell him what you want to do. Your studio room is massive and would make a brilliant studio!

Keep me up to date. I am just building my studio now as well. I am aching all over after building the floor today!

 

[AliB]

Also, what about standing up to the elements? How good are each of these brands in putting up with the sand, heat, humidity (in excess of 100% in summer), etc.

That's why I recommend a chat with Tomas, shooting in exactly the opposite conditions can be just as demanding and if it can stand up to Tomas in the snow then it can't be bad!

 

[bastic]

Talk to Tomas!

SB900's have the advantage of portability and you can take them out ito the desert with you. Disadvantage is the amount of power you would need with the light levels in the desert.

Ive seen a video on YT not long ago from photoshoot on a desert...
that had one light stand with around 10(if not more) sb800's on it ;D

 

[AliB]

That's Joe McNally for you!

 

[Wail]

Good morning, and thank you all for the detailed feedback. Sorry, I wasn't able to reply last night as it was getting pretty late for me

...

Then replacing several of the items:

swap the battery radio triggers for mains (free)
upgrade the light stands to air stands (+£30)
add a couple of softbox (strip box 30cmx140cm & 70cmx140cm)
add a reflector arm
add a low wheeled stand
remove one of the reflectors and the bag (-£55 about)

...

Now, that seems like an excellent set-up you've gone with.

Yes, I have thought seriously about Lencarta, especially as it UK made and seems to offer all the bits of kit that I need & hope to buy over time. Speaking to Garry will be a must do

I've been following your thread with enthusiasm, as I've done with a few others (EG to name one). Your set-up comes closer to what I have in mind as all I would have is the one room studio.

A few questions if you don't mind me asking ...

- Why did you change the radio trigger to a cable one?
- What's the difference between "light stands" and "air stands"?
- "reflector arm", I am guessing that's an arm to hold the reflector in place; saving you the need to have someone holding it for you?
- "low wheel stand", have no clue what that is!?

As for the set-up you've bought, does it come with good manuals & tutorials, or could I buy something like that? Unfortunately, being in Saudi and being unable to come over to UK means I will have to order these via Internet and have them shipped to me. Learning will be purely from whatever I can get my hands on to read / view.

That's why I recommend a chat with Tomas, shooting in exactly the opposite conditions can be just as demanding and if it can stand up to Tomas in the snow then it can't be bad!

Again, thank you so much ; I will definitely be PMing both Tomas and Colin as bothering them BIG time

Ive seen a video on YT not long ago from photoshoot on a desert...
that had one light stand with around 10(if not more) sb800's on it ;D

I think I saw that YouTube a couple of years ago; but way out of my technical ability range.

I sold my one SB600 due to lack of use and lack of wanting to get into artificial lighting. I don't regret the sale, but now I want to get into this, I figured to get the gear set-up as good as possibly can be without overkill.

 

[Wail]

As a general rule, would it be advisable to go with a whole set-up (as with what Darren / cowasaki has done); or should I be looking at getting one flash head and a diffuser and build on that one item more at a time?

My gut feeling tells me to buy the best set-up, as a whole, I can stretch and afford then use them bit by bit; but is that the right way to go about it or would I just over burden myself with things I haven't a clue on how to use them?

If I go with the one item at a time, I'd have the problem of having to order each item from UK and paying courier shipment to Saudi; of course, there's also the waiting period and then the logistics for getting it through customs (not as easy as I would hope it to be).

On the flip side, if I buy a whole set-up, I fear that I will never learn the ins & outs of each item well enough, while I may get too overburdened with the number of items, putting me off or limiting my learning. I'd hate to fork out a good few £££ and then fall face down miserably due to "over saturating" myself :shake:

 

[Garry Edwards]

As a general rule, would it be advisable to go with a whole set-up (as with what Darren / cowasaki has done); or should I be looking at getting one flash head and a diffuser and build on that one item more at a time?
My gut feeling tells me to buy the best set-up, as a whole, I can stretch and afford then use them bit by bit; but is that the right way to go about it or would I just over burden myself with things I haven't a clue on how to use them?

If I go with the one item at a time, I'd have the problem of having to order each item from UK and paying courier shipment to Saudi; of course, there's also the waiting period and then the logistics for getting it through customs (not as easy as I would hope it to be).

On the flip side, if I buy a whole set-up, I fear that I will never learn the ins & outs of each item well enough, while I may get too overburdened with the number of items, putting me off or limiting my learning. I'd hate to fork out a good few £££ and then fall face down miserably due to "over saturating" myself :shake:

For purely financial/logistical reasons it makes sense to buy everything at once (discounted prices on kits, cost of shipping and customs) - I take it you're not going to tell the Customs people that you're importing it for glamour shots
But then learn by using just one light to start with (after all, there is only 1 sun so only 1 light should be used until it becomes clear that a second light is needed too, and so on).

As for learning, there are various basic free tutorials on the Lencarta website, there are various very reasonably priced videos and tutorials on my own website, there are a host of videos on Youtube (some are good, some are awful and I don't know whether you can access them in Saudi), you can ask questions on here and even if you don't buy Lencarta you can always phone or email me - everyone else does

 

[cowasaki]

Now, that seems like an excellent set-up you've gone with.

Yes, I have thought seriously about Lencarta, especially as it UK made and seems to offer all the bits of kit that I need & hope to buy over time. Speaking to Garry will be a must do

I've been following your thread with enthusiasm, as I've done with a few others (EG to name one). Your set-up comes closer to what I have in mind as all I would have is the one room studio.

A few questions if you don't mind me asking ...

- Why did you change the radio trigger to a cable one?
- What's the difference between "light stands" and "air stands"?
- "reflector arm", I am guessing that's an arm to hold the reflector in place; saving you the need to have someone holding it for you?
- "low wheel stand", have no clue what that is!?

As for the set-up you've bought, does it come with good manuals & tutorials, or could I buy something like that? Unfortunately, being in Saudi and being unable to come over to UK means I will have to order these via Internet and have them shipped to me. Learning will be purely from whatever I can get my hands on to read / view.

Wail,

Not actually bought the lighting setup yet as I was waiting till either the end of this month or the end of next month so that I can get the whole lot together.

I already own two sets of radio triggers as I already have a set of lighting kit (the lighting kit is a stable imaging kit and will be sold on here just before I buy Lencarta). The mains one piggybacks into the power lead of the light so does not require batteries for the receiver. Probably less flexible but as I have the others this would be better for me.

There are 3 types of fixed stand that they sell basic ones, spring damped ones and air damped ones. They are ten pound more for each step with this set coming with the middle ones as standard.

You're right with the reflector arm.

The low wheel stand is a stand on wheels that is a foot high, buying one for flexibility.

Just about to get out of bed and get on with the next days work on the studio. I now have a full wooden floor and three of the wall panels are in place. I have had to remove the entire electrical consumer unit, light switches, 16A mains sockets and a couple of extra sockets so I can hide them away tidily so I now have work on the electrics too. I did go and buy enough carpet tiles to tile it in dark grey whilst out on Monday so the floor should be sorted and I have two 1 1/2" metal poles to use as backdrop stands coming tomorrow plus the metal to weld together a product photography table......

Garry was saying, and it made complete sense, that having your light stands on wheels was a safety thing too. If someone trips over a wire the stand just scoots across the floor rather than tipping over and hitting someone.

Darren

 

[cowasaki]

Oh and Garry's videos look really good (there are some examples on his site and he is giving TP members a discount although I am not sure what that is yet). I will be buying a full set with the PDFs as soon as I have the lights. I learn't more in one session at his studio than I have in all the other time spent playing with studio lights. Lots of old wives tails got rid of and as he is not obsessed with plain white backgrounds like lots of other people, we found out how to do more interesting ones plus the black ones I like. Thing is his explanations were so good that I know how to do the white backgrounds too. It is a shame it is a little too far to travel

 

[david1701]

if you want to head out into the desert you will need some serious power and quite a lot of portability (will heavy stuff sink?)

you could try dusk/night shooting with sb's as that might work?

 

[cowasaki]

Wail,

I had a look at Lencarta's Safari line too. They are battery powered so you could use them out on location. For what I wanted they would have been out of my price range though so I stuck to the mains ones but I would prefer the Safari's. They do a kit which adds 2 Safari lights to an existing setup which I could look at later but if you have the available funds getting them would give you more flexibility.

 

[Wail]

This is one of the reasons why I just love this place ; the feedback is so overwhelming .. and you haven't seen the mini-book Tomas sent me via PM

I will take one reply at a time, as there are too many issues on my mind; thank you for bearing with me.

 

[treeman]

I may be over simplifying things, but wouldn't it be best to buy kit that you can get serviced and repaired locally, rather than importing :shrug:

 

[Wail]

For purely financial/logistical reasons it makes sense to buy everything at once (discounted prices on kits, cost of shipping and customs) - I take it you're not going to tell the Customs people that you're importing it for glamour shots
But then learn by using just one light to start with (after all, there is only 1 sun so only 1 light should be used until it becomes clear that a second light is needed too, and so on).

As for learning, there are various basic free tutorials on the Lencarta website, there are various very reasonably priced videos and tutorials on my own website, there are a host of videos on Youtube (some are good, some are awful and I don't know whether you can access them in Saudi), you can ask questions on here and even if you don't buy Lencarta you can always phone or email me - everyone else does

Absolutely, from a financial and logistical point of view it makes sense to just order all that I was, and can afford, in one go and learn to use one bit of kit at a time.

The downside to this, people in general get too distracted and too overly anxious to move on to the next bit of kit without mastering the first one. I fear I'd fall into that; but I guess that's something only I can deal with.

With that said, I will draft my "needed kit" and then post it here to see what you folks think of it, and if I've missed something.

Saudi customs, know of Glamour shots I'm planning :bonk:, yes sure. If you're looking to have me sent away for a few good months .

But that's the whole reason why I want to venture into this. I've been on the good side of the fence for far too long. While I can buy some decent kit locally (Elinchrom and Broncolor are available, along with a few others no-name brands); I don't know of anyone who shoots Glamour here, or may be there are a few who are just being ultra discrete about it too.


The tutorials, thank you for pointing these out to me. Saudi censoring is rather strict, but thankfully they leave just enough to filter through that allows us to view things that are seen as a bit too raunchy. With that said, I can access most of what's on YouTube, so that's a good start.

I think my end decision will come down to one of the two set ups, either the Visatec set I can get locally, or the Lencarta I'd get from UK. It all depends on the list of items I want to order and how much all that will cost me. I can stretch my budget, but not a lot as this is purely a hobby and will always remain as such.

Again, thank you for the feedback


Edit --- Just wanted to add another big thank you, been over to check the links you've provided and what an amazing resource of information.

 

[Wail]

...

There are 3 types of fixed stand that they sell basic ones, spring damped ones and air damped ones. They are ten pound more for each step with this set coming with the middle ones as standard.

....

The low wheel stand is a stand on wheels that is a foot high, buying one for flexibility.

Just about to get out of bed and get on with the next days work on the studio. I now have a full wooden floor and three of the wall panels are in place. I have had to remove the entire electrical consumer unit, light switches, 16A mains sockets and a couple of extra sockets so I can hide them away tidily so I now have work on the electrics too. I did go and buy enough carpet tiles to tile it in dark grey whilst out on Monday so the floor should be sorted and I have two 1 1/2" metal poles to use as backdrop stands coming tomorrow plus the metal to weld together a product photography table......

Garry was saying, and it made complete sense, that having your light stands on wheels was a safety thing too. If someone trips over a wire the stand just scoots across the floor rather than tipping over and hitting someone.

Darren

Again, thank you for getting back to me on this; and sorry if my IQ seems to be low, but ....

What's a spring dampened stand vs. an air dampened one vs. a normal one? What's the point of a dampened one? Of course, I am guessing you mean the light stand here, but why would you want one that is dampened? [please do not laugh at silly questions]

Low level wheel stand , what for? I guess, since I don't know what it's for then I don't need one .. but I'd like to learn, if you don't mind.

I totally agree with the stands best to be on wheels, if possible, to avoid them falling down; and helps to make it easy to move about bit at a time.

As I've said, I've been following your studio development with great details, but you go into things I wouldn't even think about. I am not too keen on electrical items, done a bit of that when I was younger, didn't do me much good :nuts:. Good luck with your progress.

Oh and Garry's videos look really good (there are some examples on his site and he is giving TP members a discount although I am not sure what that is yet). I will be buying a full set with the PDFs as soon as I have the lights. I learn't more in one session at his studio than I have in all the other time spent playing with studio lights. Lots of old wives tails got rid of and as he is not obsessed with plain white backgrounds like lots of other people, we found out how to do more interesting ones plus the black ones I like. Thing is his explanations were so good that I know how to do the white backgrounds too. It is a shame it is a little too far to travel

I've had a quick glance over at his site and that of Lencarta. You have the luxury of being there (in UK) and being able to drop in for a learning session. Not possible, I regret to day, for me; not for a good while to come. All though I have seriously considered booking a few sessions before I hit the trigger, take a flight over, spend a week or so (how much I miss UK, rain, cloudy weather); but I think that's not a viable option.

Getting the DVD and PDF set seems like a very good alternative

Luckily, before I left UK I made a good list of books I wanted to get (a rather big list at that), and I was lucky enough to order them and brought them back here. So, book-wise, I'm stocked up; but it's the actual tutoring and learning the little bits that books and text do not teach, which makes up a whole world of difference.

Time to get some ordering done

 

[Wail]

if you want to head out into the desert you will need some serious power and quite a lot of portability (will heavy stuff sink?)

you could try dusk/night shooting with sb's as that might work?

Yup, dusk & night shots would be an option; but that opens up another problem for us in Saudi.

Problem 1 .. finding a model who's willing to be shot Glamour & Implied-Nude

Problem 2 .. finding a location to go out and shoot at, without getting caught (there is a lot of legality issues with this). Nudity is a very subjective matter, and it varies A LOT from country to country; I say no more, and will leave the rest of this to readers' imagination :bang:

Problem 3 .. finding the time of day to be able to go shoot and come back before parents, guardian, authority find out; getting into trouble over this isn't worth it, unless I was shooting someone of high publicity etc.

Problem 4 .. keeping all this from the Ms. (if you hear me with a squeaking voice, you'll know I've not done well on this part)

Wail,

I had a look at Lencarta's Safari line too. They are battery powered so you could use them out on location. For what I wanted they would have been out of my price range though so I stuck to the mains ones but I would prefer the Safari's. They do a kit which adds 2 Safari lights to an existing setup which I could look at later but if you have the available funds getting them would give you more flexibility.

This looks more and more tempting and what we're after

 

[cowasaki]

Wail,

When you release the clamp on a stand in order to change height the dampening stops the light dropping from the higher level to the lower one with a thud! Studio lights are heavy and with a delicate lamp etc can be damaged by hamfistedness so the air or spring dampening just avoids this. The low level stand allows you to more easily light something from low down, something you may well want to do depending on what you are photographing so the low wheeled stand will do just that. If I can afford it I might well change one of the air damped stands to wheels with my original order. I am madly saving up and will have about £800 plus what I get from my current light kit by the end of the month. Apparently stock is low on some items but the reality is that I might end up buying the lighting kit at the end of June instead of May. I am still messing with options in order to maybe get one Safari light and the rest as mains but their site is not the best !

Oh and my studio is not finished anyway! I have just finished totally re-wiring it today so that it is neat and tidy and wiring in a light for the changing room etc. Also had to re-wire the alarm system for a window foil and change the up and over door contacts for normal ones plus adding a PIR. The floor was finished yesterday and now the walls are wooden up to 4 feet all round and up to the ceiling where the light switches etc are! Its all good fun but I'm working for the next 4 days so no more work there! It could be into June before it s finished anyway.

 

[Wail]

Thanks Darren ; so, which of the two are better, the air dampers or spring dampers?

End of June, now that's a bit far off; but at least you're getting there; me, I'm still undecided on the lights and am struggling to find the models :shrug:

 

[cowasaki]

Thanks Darren ; so, which of the two are better, the air dampers or spring dampers?

End of June, now that's a bit far off; but at least you're getting there; me, I'm still undecided on the lights and am struggling to find the models :shrug:

Air dampers are more expensive and give less bounce whilst still damping! Its end of May or end of June partially down to cash and partially stock etc.

You have a decent sized room for a studio should get some good results. At least models are not as much of an issue over here. Have you seen Model Mayhem ..... http://www.modelmayhem.com/1636086

 

[tfboy]

Another idea for shooting out in the desert, what about reflectors? Relatively cheap, light, portable, etc. I've never ventured south into KSA but my time in Bahrain and Dubai certainly proved sun was never a shortage.

I imagine you'd need silly amounts of power to overcome the sun during the day.

However, You could do some seriously impressive fillflash stuff at dawn / dusk I wanted to have a play when I was out there (with just SB900), but never had the time.

 

[Wail]

Thanks Xavier, that's an option I'm seriously considering (the use of plenty of reflectors). But as I'm totally new to this type, I have no clue as to what I really need :shake:, hence why I'd like to go with the safest bet.

But I also want to get into home studio shoots too.

It seems I've narrowed down my options pretty well; just need to decide on my short-term needs (up to 2 years) and what's the best means to get the equipment. If I go with Lencarta, I may opt to come over to UK to pick them up; it would be a lot cheaper for me to fly over and collect them than have them mailed over to me here.

I think I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on this

 

[Wail]

Just an update,

This idea of buying flash kit turned out to be a lot more complex than I expected.

After digesting all that's been suggested here, and reading the numerous threads and articles, we've come to the conclusion that the best course of action would be to go with a whole set-up. Lencarta was the option to go with, but Visatec was more suitable due to warranty support (should that be needed). We thought of taking a flight over to UK and picking up the Lencarta kit we wanted

We then toyed with the idea of space & premise.

The scouting for local models isn't coming as well as was hoped. One of the obstacles is the lack of anyone willing to pose, the other obstacle is the lack of a professional space. As we can't rent out a studio for what we have in mind, the idea came to mind that we rent an office space and set-up a full-fledged studio to try to legitimise what we wanted to do by turning this into a real business. May be making it easier for models to accept that this isn't a couple of perverts. We liked this idea, and started to draft up a business plan; how to make some form of income from this pseudo-studio to cover the running expenses!

Then it hit us, we started with wanting to spend no more than £400, that got pushed-up a bit to cater for a full kit, we were looking at about £1000; but now, with a whole business set-up we're closer to £20000 and that doesn't account for any real income for us (we're happy with the income from our current jobs to sustain us).

As an ex-banker (you can freely substitute that first letter with any other of your choice), I am more than capable with financial forecasting and business plans; my buddy is a media strategist, and he's more than capable on the marketing side. So, giving this a run wasn't that far fetched.

But £20000 is 50x the initial amount we had in mind, this is getting way out of hand; especially as I haven't used a flash in any good and serious manner for well over a decade , which translate into a uphill learning curve ahead. Not to mention the slow progress with the models.

So, our decision, after much delibirating, has come to a couple of SB900 and smallish kits (stand, softbox, snoot, bouncers). This way we can get to experiment with fill-in flash, a bit of playing around with CLS etc. before we forkout for something more expensive.

We will practice with toys and dummies for starters (got myself my Star Wars and Dinosaurs out from mothball) and will see how we go with this.

Meanwhile our scouting for the models will continue; and if we feel that we are making good progress then the pseudo-studio will be the next step.

Tomorrow we go and get a couple of SB900. Then it's back to here to give Flash in The Pan a visit


For now, thank you for all your help and I hope you don't mind me coming back with more and more questions as we start to pick-up speed with the two SB900.

 

[Garry Edwards]

FWIW I think that deciding to start off with hotshoe flashguns is the right choice for you, especially given the other difficulties that you need to overcome - you can always move to studio lighting later, and your SB-900s won't be redundant because you can use them for other things and even alongside studio lighting.

On the 'business model' side, have you thought about a sideways approach? If you can't find locals to pose for you as such, how about setting up something like a glamour portraits service? Maybe recruit a female photographer to provide reassurance/avoid local problems and offer makeovers, boudoir or something similar (to suit local market conditions) and see where that takes you. You may find yourself with a queue of willing models once you've established a local reputation, and will then be able to move on to your original concept. And even if you don't, it will be a good learning experience.

Sorry to move this thread sideways into what is really more about business than lighting, ut that's the way my mind is working.

 

[Wail]

FWIW I think that deciding to start off with hotshoe flashguns is the right choice for you, especially given the other difficulties that you need to overcome - you can always move to studio lighting later, and your SB-900s won't be redundant because you can use them for other things and even alongside studio lighting.

Thank you, and while it is our combined decision, I keep thinking if this is the right way forward; but it's exactly as you've put it.

We need to pick-up on a couple of issues: -

1) Learn about artificial light
2) Source the models

Doing the two at the same time is proving to be very cumbersom. Also, I am very uncomfortable with putting too much into my plate.

The Speedlight option keeps things rather simple for us to start with. Once we're in a more comfortable position with this, we can move on to the next level (buying the studio kit, and getting the models to pose [ideally we'll have sorted this out in the next few weeks]).

We're also contemplating taking a quick break from there, coming over to UK, and attending a course (a week or so) on studio & glamour photography. There are obstacles to that too, but nothing that can't be managed in due time.

So, thank you for putting our mind to rest with your feedback on this regards

On the 'business model' side, have you thought about a sideways approach? If you can't find locals to pose for you as such, how about setting up something like a glamour portraits service? Maybe recruit a female photographer to provide reassurance/avoid local problems and offer makeovers, boudoir or something similar (to suit local market conditions) and see where that takes you. You may find yourself with a queue of willing models once you've established a local reputation, and will then be able to move on to your original concept. And even if you don't, it will be a good learning experience.

Sorry to move this thread sideways into what is really more about business than lighting, ut that's the way my mind is working.

The Glamour & Portrait Service is what we were planning to go with;and we are willing to write-off the whole expense of this business for the sake of learning this, but it will not be easy.

Glamour, as it is known in the West, is impossible to shoot in Saudi Arabia. The women would simply not do it, and there is no way that I can fly-in the models for this :bang:. It's a culture, social and religious thing, regardless of whomever is shooting, it just isn't doable.

The funny thing is that many Saudi women are more than happy to be in their bikinis across Europe etc., some (I have known from my past) have even been photographed in Glamour and Semi-Nude, but not in Saudi! Doing it here is a big :nono:

As complicated as this may get, the logic of all this, I fully understand their argument; even though I may not agree with it.

Hence why I want to do this! I am not the type that wants to change the social values of any country, nor do I want to "bring Saudi out of this dogmatic thinking" ... I just want the challenge on a personal level.

The downside to this, this is running a very fine line on the legal & ethics front; I don't want to push too much, nor do I want to over-expose my plans.

For 34 years now, I shoot purely for self gratification, nothing more, nothing less. All my shoots have been a personal challenge for me to attain and capture a certain beauty (nature & landscape, predominantly). This, Glamour in Saudi Arabia is just a few challenges coupled into one.

So, while we've digressed from the studio needs (which is now on a temporary hold); the business approach seems like the best way forward. If anything, as you've said, it will be a good learning curve for us.

But first, let us get a few months with the Speedlights, a few accessories on that, and then see how things transpire.


[To Be Continued]

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well, if you plan to come to the UK for a course you'll find that a full day will be enough, with the right teacher (me)

 

[Wail]

... that's the plan we had in mind; the only couple of things, a) finding the time and b) getting a bit up to speed with the use of artificial light. May be sometime after summer

Thank you for the feedback and the offer

 

[Wail]

Just an update

Today, went and got myself the SB900 and one SD-9. Wanted to try and source the Quantum SC, but couldn't find them locally.

For batteries, went with standard off-the-shelf Energizer until I do a bit of reading as to which rechargeable are best.

Unfortunately, getting one of the stupid pancreas attack; it seems playing with my new toy will be on hold for a while. Once I'm well again, time to give FiTP thread a visit for the little bits & bobs that I want.

Meanwhile, while I'm bed I will do some reading

 

[cowasaki]

Just an update

Today, went and got myself the SB900 and one SD-9. Wanted to try and source the Quantum SC, but couldn't find them locally.

For batteries, went with standard off-the-shelf Energizer until I do a bit of reading as to which rechargeable are best.

Unfortunately, getting one of the stupid pancreas attack; it seems playing with my new toy will be on hold for a while. Once I'm well again, time to give FiTP thread a visit for the little bits & bobs that I want.

Meanwhile, while I'm bed I will do some reading

Wail,

Not sure if this will help but after much testing I found Eneloops were the best

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=131144

 

[Wail]

Good morning,

Thank you very much ; and yes, this is very helpful as I am not sure what to buy!

I didn't want to start a thread asking about the batteries, as I was certain it was asked a gazzillion times before, but I've been too under the weather to dig them out.

Now, to see if they're available here

 

[david1701]

I have speedlight mods and safari gear so you can have a little play with them if ya like

bit off the beaten track but I can promise cornish beer

 

[Kaouthia]

Ive seen a video on YT not long ago from photoshoot on a desert...
that had one light stand with around 10(if not more) sb800's on it ;D

This one?

[youtube]k7qEgl2uQHg[/youtube]

It was only 6 speedlights (plus the commander on the hotshoe).

Or this one?
[youtube]90mlK8ktV68[/youtube]

Here I he only used 7 with an SU-800 commander on the hotshoe.

 

[Wail]

I have speedlight mods and safari gear so you can have a little play with them if ya like

bit off the beaten track but I can promise cornish beer

Thank you for the offer; but I think we're a bit too far away right now. I may just take you up on this next time I'm in UK


Those YouTube, seen them and made me wonder why would he use SpeedLights? It's a lot more expensive and cumbersome :shrug:. I'm sure he has his own good reasons

 

[Kaouthia]

I would say that 6 or 8 speedlights is far less cumbersome than using his usual Elinchrom Ranger RX gear in the middle of the Dubai Desert (especially with the amount of extra battery packs he'd needs).

Also, I'm not sure what portable studio strobes would even support high speed sync shooting at 1/4000th of a second. Nikon speedlights handle this no problem.

I can't really see 6 or 7 speedlights being more expensive than a decent Elinchrom Ranger RX system (that he would probably have otherwise used).

But, it goes to show that speedlights can do most things the big boys can if you have enough of them.

 

[Wail]

John,

Thank you for the clarification; goes to show just how little I know about this. I've only just got my SB900 and it's still boxed.

I've got a lot to learn

 

[Kaouthia]

They're fantastic.

I have three SB-900s at the moment and an SB-600, with another 9 SB-900s on my eventual shopping list (gonna wait'll used ones come up at the right price. £339 for each one new is a little more than I'm willing to pay).

The main problem with needing so many is not that the SB-900 isn't that powerful, it's that when you go above 1/250th of a second, you're into high speed sync territory.

In normal flash, your shutter opens, your flash goes off, then your shutter closes. The entire flash duration has happened while the front and rear curtain are both open.

Once you go into FP sync, the flash changes the way it works (which is why many flashes don't support this ability). Here the Nikon speedlights send out a pulse of speedlight flashes, in order to sustain the light for the duration of the exposure. After 1/250th, there is never a point at which both front and rear curtains are fully open, so otherwise you'd end up with dark bands across parts of your image.

Doing this basically loses you about 2 stops of light from the flash (potentially more). So, that's why you might need 7 or 8 flashes where you might only need one or two if you were able to stay below sync speed.

For example, 1/250th at f/22 is the essentially same as 1/8000th of a second at f/4 - if you were shooting for ambient light, the only difference you'd see would be the depth of field. But, you would require less speedlights to adequately expose the 1/250th shot than you would with the 1/8000th of a second shot, due to the way the FP sync mode works.