Which One is Faulty?

Haldir

Haldir

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This morning the L Bracket and Quick Release Clamp with Plate arrived from Amazon, both Arca Swiss Compatible, and were listed as "Buy together"...
Other than welding, no amount of tightening will secure the L Bracket inside the clamp. I've used calipers to measure the width of the L Bracket and the
Quick Release Plate supplied with the Clamp, and there may be a 10th of a mm difference. After scratching my head I had a look at the Bevelled Groove
in both the L Bracket and Quick Release Plate, and there's the problem! It's cut too low down in the L Bracket for the Jaws of the Quick Release Clamp
to grip...

So the question is...Which one do I send back? Or return them both? In that case can anyone recommend replacements that are compatible?

PS: If it helps, I was hoping to buy a Focus Rail when I've decided which one and a Benbo Trekker MK3 with Ball Head, if this affects the Quick Release Clamp option...

L Bracket Q Release Clamp.jpg
 
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Hmmm!

The clamp you have bought looks like the QR design one that RRS make.

Hopefully not teaching you how to suck eggs ~ the screw opposite the clamp lever is designed/there to fine tune the clamping action:-

This has IMO two purposes.
1) to ensure the clamp latches & engages properly i.e. does not inadvertently delatch

2) to compensate for (read #1 above) for variations is AS plate engineering/dimensions.

Does that make sense!

HTH
 
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Box Brownie said:
Hmmm!

The clamp you have bought looks like the QR design one that RRS make.

Hopefully not teaching you how to suck eggs ~ the screw opposite the clamp lever is designed/there to fine tune the clamping action:-

This has IMO two purposes.
1) to ensure the clamp latches & engages properly i.e. does not inadvertently delatch

2) to compensate for (read #1 above) for variations is AS plate engineering/dimensions.

Does that make sense!

HTH
Click to expand...


That makes sense. I used an Allen Key to tighten up the finger screw on the Quick Release Clamp, it made a little difference but not enough
to stop the L Bracket from sliding. The Locking Clamp on the opposite side has no adjustment. Usually you can rotate this type of lever 360 degrees
for fine adjustment, but this one is fixed.
 
Haldir said:
That makes sense. I used an Allen Key to tighten up the finger screw on the Quick Release Clamp, it made a little difference but not enough
to stop the L Bracket from sliding. The Locking Clamp on the opposite side has no adjustment. Usually you can rotate this type of lever 360 degrees
for fine adjustment, but this one is fixed.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I got the maker wrong.... watch the video here as it explains....how to set their version and may throw some light in setting the clamp on the one you bought?
https://www.acratech.net/quick-release-clamps/gp-gps-quick-release-locking-lever-clamp

Next, if you mean you used an Allen key on the recessed bolt on the knurled knob? I surmise that is primarily an assembly bolt and not intended for clamp tightening.

PS have you got a link to the ones you bought?
 
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Box Brownie said:
Firstly, I got the maker wrong.... watch the video here as it explains....how to set their version and may throw some light in setting the clamp on the one you bought?
https://www.acratech.net/quick-release-clamps/gp-gps-quick-release-locking-lever-clamp

Next, if you mean you used an Allen key on the recessed bolt on the knurled knob? I surmise that is primarily an assembly bolt and not intended for clamp tightening.
Click to expand...

I've been through all that in the video, the Quick Release Plate supplied with the Clamp is in there solid, nothing is moving that, but the Bevelled Groove is cut higher up
so the jaws of the plate can grip it. No amount of adjustment with the Quick Release Plate, will it grip the L Bracket. I think the best solution is too send them both back
and buy ones form the same manufacturer...
 
Box Brownie said:
PS have you got a link to the ones you bought?
Click to expand...

Apologies Box Brownie, I missed the PS. Links below but I've already printed the return label off for both. I suppose this is one of the problems buying cheap sometimes
from different brands. I'll keep looking...Thank you for taking the time to help out, it is much appreciated:giggle:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07MGV1XZX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B078H83PXC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Andoer I recall being mentioned as "a budget" worth attention. The other is a new name to me???

The one concern I would have about the QR clamp is what they describe as the 'safety slide'. Does it automatically click in to lock the lever in place.....and then require a positive action to then allow release of the lever? If not acting as a true "failsafe" then IMO it is a recipe for a disaster, as it could inadvertently allow the lever to release :(

FWIW even if the safety slide indeed works as a true failsafe, how robust would it be compared to the (apparently) well engineered Acratech version???
 
while chinese third party brackets may not be finely tuned i have 4 seperate ones and all fit in 3 clamps from 3 different suppliers. I would lean on the clamp being the issue based purely on the rational that it is supplied with a plate and could see that its arca swiss type rather than fully compatible. Are there any reviews of the bracket indicating a fit issue as if that wasnt truly arca swiss there would be more unhappy people than with the clamp?
 
Box Brownie said:
Andoer I recall being mentioned as "a budget" worth attention. The other is a new name to me???

The one concern I would have about the QR clamp is what they describe as the 'safety slide'. Does it automatically click in to lock the lever in place.....and then require a positive action to then allow release of the lever? If not acting as a true "failsafe" then IMO it is a recipe for a disaster, as it could inadvertently allow the lever to release :(

FWIW even if the safety slide indeed works as a true failsafe, how robust would it be compared to the (apparently) well engineered Acratech version???[/QUO

Yes, the "Safey Slide" locks automatically as soon as the lever is closed and you have to pull it forward to release the lever. I wouldn't like to compare the quality as
this is the first one I've bought, but for the price, first impressions are good. It's nicely machined and everything works and locks tightly, how long it'll last I wouldn't
like to say....The L Bracket is nicely made too, just a bloody shame they are not Arca Compatible as advertised. It's not as though they have cheated on the quality of parts,
it just required a little more accuracy when they made the recessed bevel. A smidgen higher and the clamps would be able to grip.
Click to expand...
 
AgentOrange76 said:
while chinese third party brackets may not be finely tuned i have 4 seperate ones and all fit in 3 clamps from 3 different suppliers. I would lean on the clamp being the issue based purely on the rational that it is supplied with a plate and could see that its arca swiss type rather than fully compatible. Are there any reviews of the bracket indicating a fit issue as if that wasnt truly arca swiss there would be more unhappy people than with the clamp?
Click to expand...

Good point James, I've made the mistake of blaming the L Bracket rather than the Clamp, sadly I don't have any others to cross reference. Having had another look, there is a
review on the clamp that says it doesn't fit all L Brackets.
 
@Box Brownie @AgentOrange76 @Retune

All sorted:giggle:...It kept playing on mind last night so I thought I'd have another look. Even with the Locking Knob made tight as possible there was a little play in the jaw,
I mentioned yesterday I'd used an Allen Key to see if I could tighten it up. Last night I thought, I'll remove the Locking Knob and put a small washer between that
and the jaw, it should work! I started to remove the bolt holding the Locking Knob, and it's not a bolt, but a grub screw. Behind that, is the bolt that secures the Locking Knob.
Once the grub screw is out, you can then adjust the Locking Knob removing any slack in the jaw. Grub screw back in place, works perfect:giggle:

I wouldn't have thought something like this would warrant instructions, but when fine adjustments that are hidden can be made, it would have been handy.
It might also help the manufacturer from receiving negative reviews...

Q Release Clamp.jpgL Bracket Q Release Clamp Cam.jpg
 
These things have to be made adjustable because Arca Swiss do not publish their design tolerances. and why would they when every Tom Dick and Harry plagiarises them to extinction.
A fitting that is used by SmallRig is the Nato slide, which was designed to mount Military rifle sights. it looks similar to a smaller Arca Swiss design but actually has quite different and more precise mating surfaces and is fully specified. it establishes an entirely repeatable and precisely fitting location. Though smaller it is extremely strong and would make an ideal camera mount.
Just about all camera mounts rely on a 1/4 inch screw to mount the QR plate to the camera and is the weakest link in just about all designs.
How much better would it be to machine a nato slide into the base of all cameras as an added alternative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_.../File:STANAG_4694_“NATO_Accessory_Rail”_1.jpg
I
 
@Haldir
See I told you that silver coloured Allen 'bolt' was not related to the screw action ;)

But seriously, good for you for thinking it through and investigating. The fact that you remove that "cover screw" and reveal the adjuster bolt to make the small correction required, just illustrates that the low cost assembly will produce piece to piece variation! C'est la vie.

So are you keeping it/them and simply not bothering to use the already printed return label?
 
I think we're stuck with the current (non)standard. It didn't help that RRS etc. seem to have made their plates a mm or so wider than Arca did. One thing to consider is whether the lever clamp can be adjusted to a single setting that work with all the plates you might own - does it still work with the Andoer plate?
 
Box Brownie said:
See I told you that silver coloured Allen 'bolt' was not related to the screw action ;)
Click to expand...

:LOL: I couldn't find my thinking cap yesterday morning:giggle: I should have known after all the woodworking machines I've tinkered with, I'm sure I've come
across this "Grub Screw Cover" in the past and perhaps it was that that wouldn't leave me alone last night. I was sat in the chair itching:giggle:

Box Brownie said:
But seriously, good for you for thinking it through and investigating. The fact that you remove that "cover screw" and reveal the adjuster bolt to make the small correction required, just illustrates that the low cost assembly will produce piece to piece variation! C'est la vie.
Click to expand...

I couldn't adjust the holding bolt, that was in as far as in would go, but removing the Grub Screw allowed the outer casing of the Locking Knob to
move that little bit closer to the jaw which was all it needed. The Grub Screw is acting as a "Stop" once it hits the holding bolt.

Box Brownie said:
So are you keeping it/them and simply not bothering to use the already printed return label?
Click to expand...

Definitely keeping both, and "Returns" cancelled :giggle: I'm surprised at the quality and finish of both for the money, perhaps the only weak point over time is the
Lever Lock Release on the QR Plate. The only thing I'm going to change is the camera mounting screw on the L Bracket, sadly it didn't come with "D" ring style.
 
Retune said:
I think we're stuck with the current (non)standard. It didn't help that RRS etc. seem to have made their plates a mm or so wider than Arca did. One thing to consider is whether the lever clamp can be adjusted to a single setting that work with all the plates you might own - does it still work with the Andoer plate?
Click to expand...

Works perfect with the Andoer Plate as well Retune. It's a bit daft just how little play there was in the jaw after the Locking Knob was fully tightened, but that small amount of slack
that could be taken up, was all that it needed...
 
Haldir said:
This morning the L Bracket and Quick Release Clamp with Plate arrived from Amazon, both Arca Swiss Compatible, and were listed as "Buy together"...
Other than welding, no amount of tightening will secure the L Bracket inside the clamp. I've used calipers to measure the width of the L Bracket and the
Quick Release Plate supplied with the Clamp, and there may be a 10th of a mm difference. After scratching my head I had a look at the Bevelled Groove
in both the L Bracket and Quick Release Plate, and there's the problem! It's cut too low down in the L Bracket for the Jaws of the Quick Release Clamp
to grip...

So the question is...Which one do I send back? Or return them both? In that case can anyone recommend replacements that are compatible?

PS: If it helps, I was hoping to buy a Focus Rail when I've decided which one and a Benbo Trekker MK3 with Ball Head, if this affects the Quick Release Clamp option...

View attachment 278317
Click to expand...
I have them and they work perfectly.

What you do is open the quick release lever fully. Turn the controls knob till the plate just drops in nicely (at an angle till one side is in the lay it flat). Close the lever and fine tune the knob as you do so so that the lever is not too hard to close. One that is done you do not alter the know again. Open lever halfway to slide plate in clamp or fully to remove.
 
They have the lever as the main clamp release and the knob to adjust the width as not all Arca Swiss plates are 38mm, some are as wide as 42 and some non-arce swiss are wider still and those clamps are made to work with them all.
 
@Haldir I got 4 of those clamps to replace the standard type because my Nest Gimble is a different size to arca swiss (it actually has 2 different widths) and this work perfectly for every arca swiss plate, nodal slider & bracket I have.
 
What I can't understand about the arca swiss system is why most (if not all) of the arca swiss tripod heads, gimbals etc. are designed with the clamp front to back which is ideal for a LONG lens where the foot is front to back yet the camera plate, right angle plate etc. are side to side. Works if you also use a nodal plate but not everyone needs one as not everyone shoots panoramas (stitching images) and many that do rely on software to cope with any errors introduced by not using a nodal plate. I have searched for a neat plate to clamp turned 90 degrees or a square plate with slide groves on all four sides for a reasonable price
.0.jpg

This one costs £70.
 
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Dangerous said:
@Haldir I got 4 of those clamps to replace the standard type because my Nest Gimble is a different size to arca swiss (it actually has 2 different widths) and this work perfectly for every arca swiss plate, nodal slider & bracket I have.
Click to expand...


Hello Norman :giggle: This image best explains what I was saying yesterday about the "Recessed Bevel" being too low on the L Bracket (Right Image), and why out
of the box no amount of adjustment worked. The QR Clamp wouldn't grip the L Bracket, even though the QR Plate and the L Bracket are the same width, the Bevel
was too low for the jaws to grip. That extra little adjustment made by removing the Grub Screw allowed the jaws to get a grip...

Our lass has borrowed my Manfrotto tripod for her spotting scope, which probably isn't ideal for what I want so I'm hoping the get a Benbo Trekker MK3. Hopefully
I've made the right choice of QR Plate for that:giggle:

QR Plate L Bracket.jpg
 
My clamps fit this
1.jpg

The bottem edge is at most 1.2mm but I think it is only 1mm
 
Shame there is so many sizes in one 'standard' and some stupid prices on some parts.

EDITED TO ADD.

I try to stick with Andoer as they are a reasonable price and as standard as they come.
 
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Haldir said:
Hello Norman :giggle: This image best explains what I was saying yesterday about the "Recessed Bevel" being too low on the L Bracket (Right Image), and why out
of the box no amount of adjustment worked. The QR Clamp wouldn't grip the L Bracket, even though the QR Plate and the L Bracket are the same width, the Bevel
was too low for the jaws to grip. That extra little adjustment made by removing the Grub Screw allowed the jaws to get a grip...

Our lass has borrowed my Manfrotto tripod for her spotting scope, which probably isn't ideal for what I want so I'm hoping the get a Benbo Trekker MK3. Hopefully
I've made the right choice of QR Plate for that:giggle:

View attachment 278496
Click to expand...


with an Arca Swiss system plate the contact is between the base and the bottom face of the angle slot. So the thickness of the lip is critical to how much adjustment is needed as well as the width of the plate. In the normal way even the angle of the slot mates extremely poorly, and only grips along a very narrow contact line. and probably not along its entire length.Fortunately this is pretty much all it needs.
The equivalent Manfrotto plate only contacts in three points. but has equally poor repeatability.
 
Dangerous said:
Shame there is so many sizes in one 'standard' and some stupid prices on some parts.
Click to expand...

About prices but not clamps Norman. Two weeks back I added a cheap and cheerful Ring Flash to my Amazon Wish List, it was £26 something, in that time,
it's gone up to £33.00, down to £28, and today, £29.99. It's been easier to keep tabs on my pension :giggle:
 
If the bracket is "floating" in the clamp I would get a different one...
The jaws of the clamp should ride on the ramps of the plate and force the base of the plate down against the clamp surface. If it's floating instead then you have much less clamping surface/force... and it could even be floating high enough that the safety stop screws would not engage against the clamp surface in the event the plate slips.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
In the normal way even the angle of the slot mates extremely poorly, and only grips along a very narrow contact line.
Click to expand...
IDT this really matters... a smaller contact area results in the same leverage having a greater force/area. I.e. the same amount of force from the knob/lever creates a higher psi/Pa force.
 
I wanted a right angle plate for my camera but I cant find one to fit the camera correctly. I certainly don't want to keep swapping or removing the plate as that defeats the object of arca swiss. I converted my camera harness to arca swiss as most come with a special bracket which has to be removed or just gets in the way.

Try as I might I could not get all the arca swiss compatible items I needed for my setup at a reasonable price. The ones I need are either not made or are a stupid price and not financially worthwhile to me. All I need is a square plate as above but I'm not paying £70.
 
Dangerous said:
What I can't understand about the arca swiss system is why most (if not all) of the arca swiss tripod heads, gimbals etc. are designed with the clamp front to back which is ideal for a LONG lens where the foot is front to back yet the camera plate, right angle plate etc. are side to side. Works if you also use a nodal plate but not everyone needs one as not everyone shoots panoramas (stitching images) and many that do rely on software to cope with any errors introduced by not using a nodal plate. I have searched for a neat plate to clamp turned 90 degrees or a square plate with slide groves on all four sides for a reasonable price
.View attachment 278501

This one costs £70.
Click to expand...


Sorry Norman I missed this earlier. Not on your nelly would I pay £70.00 for that either, I understand what you meant about prices now.
 
Dangerous said:
What I can't understand about the arca swiss system is why most (if not all) of the arca swiss tripod heads, gimbals etc. are designed with the clamp front to back which is ideal for a LONG lens where the foot is front to back yet the camera plate, right angle plate etc. are side to side. Works if you also use a nodal plate but not everyone needs one as not everyone shoots panoramas (stitching images) and many that do rely on software to cope with any errors introduced by not using a nodal plate. I have searched for a neat plate to clamp turned 90 degrees or a square plate with slide groves on all four sides for a reasonable price
.View attachment 278501

This one costs £70.
Click to expand...
There's this pair from Novoflex at a much more reasonable £27 each:
https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/arcaswiss_type/novoflex_qpl_slim_39/20994_p.html
https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/arcaswiss_type/novoflex_qpl1_standard_1_4/8489_p.html

I have a couple of the slim version so I know it works on the clamps I have.
 
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