Which Lighting Kit?

Digitalize

Digitalize

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Matthew
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I'm thinking of purchasing a Flash Kit, it will mainly be used on location, cars etc so think it needs to be fairly powerful to work during the day.

I use Bowens kits at university and can borrow the Gemini 250 kit with travelpak but only for 3 days at a time, if its not booked out and not outside term time, so considering purchasing my own.

As I'll be on location I'm unsure what, if any power will be available, so I'm thinking one with a battery would be my best bet, or at least has the option of one.

As said I've got experience with Bowens, know how they work etc but I'm open to any brand really.

Borrowing an interfit EX150 to use on a shoot tomorrow that luckily has power available, I'm pretty much assuming they'll be fairly weak though. But they seem the budget option, but I can't find any battery option. Heads with built in remotes would be good too as I'm fairly sure I'll rarely be tethered.

Cheaper the better really but not against spending more for a kit that will last, good warranty etc.
 
Lencarta Safari Li-on.
 
Hoppy's brief and decisive answer is pretty good.... With your Bowens 250 you have ( single head) less than half the power of the Li-on, and yet the price is extremely reasonable, with a 2head Li- on kit well below the Bowens with Travel Pack..... In fact the list price of a 2head Li-on kit is not far ahead of the Bowens 250R 2 head mains only kit ( ie with no Travel Pack )

Having worked with both, Lencarta offers great value for money, and few have been disappointed by it
 
Bayrunner said:
Hoppy's brief and decisive answer is pretty good.... With your Bowens 250 you have ( single head) less than half the power of the Li-on, and yet the price is extremely reasonable, with a 2head Li- on kit well below the Bowens with Travel Pack..... In fact the list price of a 2head Li-on kit is not far ahead of the Bowens 250R 2 head mains only kit ( ie with no Travel Pack )

Having worked with both, Lencarta offers great value for money, and few have been disappointed by it
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This is true on the pricing, but its not that comparable, just cause the bowens kit includes soft box, brolly, stands and triggers which the Li-on doesn't. I don't think you can compare the two price wise . Both have pros and cons is usage as well. The Li-on has a much longer lasting battery, but the Bowens is capable of full control of two heads (rather then just using ratios) and has an optical sync port.


I'd seriously look at the Li-on,the Bowens travel pak and also the Ranger Quadras, all have things going for them, all have negatives as well.
 
A group of TP members went on a location fashion shoot using the Lencarta Safari Li-on a few months ago.

The blog entry and video that we shot are here on the Lencarta lighting blog, you may find it helpful. We used it in various different ways, supplementing the existing light when we had bright sunlight, creating our own sunlight when there wasn't any sunlight and completely overpowering the sunlight and reversing the direction of the sunlight in once scene - that needs both power and good control, and lower powered units wouldn't have done that.

For those of you who thought that the farm was muddy when we went there - you should have been there yesterday, I was up to my axles in mud:)
a_10Aug12_0042.jpg

http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/a_10Aug12_0072.jpg
a_10Aug12_010.jpg
 
The main off putting thing for me having a quick look at the Li-ons is that there's no individual control, and one is weaker than the other. While this is usually fine for modelling, I'm unsure if it would limit me with cars/bikes, where I'm not looking to replicate the sun etc, just light it how I want within an environment.

The EX150s were pretty rubbish today, just not powerful enough and I couldn't get the slave mode to work at all, think they were too far apart, ended up just using one.

Need to do some research of my own, so Bowens, Lencarta, any other brands to look at? The kit needs to include carry case, boxes, cones, stands etc, or I'll have to factor that cost in. But I need it.
 
The reality is that nearly all twin head kits have the 'limitation' of a fixed ratio, which is normally 2:1. Exceptions are normally limited to a choice of other fixed ratios, rather than to true individual control.

True individual control is possible, but it basically involves having two separate flash generators sharing the same box and the same battery, which makes the whole thing heavy, bulky and very expensive.

Fixed ratios are nowhere near the problem that people imagine them to be; in reality, the 2:1 ratio only ever actually happens if the two heads are both at exactly the same distance from the subject and if both are also fitted with exactly the same modifier. In practice, that doesn't happen.
The EX150s were pretty rubbish today, just not powerful enough and I couldn't get the slave mode to work at all, think they were too far apart, ended up just using one.
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You shouldn't expect slave cells to work outdoors, unless it's pretty dark. Slave cells are triggered by a difference in lighting intensity, and even with powerful heads, there isn't usually enough difference in ambient light.
Heads with built in remotes would be good too as I'm fairly sure I'll rarely be tethered.
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When you're using battery powered flash generators (or mains powered ones come to that) there are no controls on the heads, all the controls are on the flash generator, which is normally within easy reach, so although a remote control can be 'nice to have' it isn't as important as when using individual mono heads that can often be out of easy reach.
 
Thanks for your help Garry.

I can only speak from experience of Bowens, but they have individual control on the heads when on Battery and are controlled from the head. Upsides and downsides I guess. They may be able to be triggered from the battery though not 100%.

I'll read in to your system, it's probably out of my price range though, which means any battery kit will be, so maybe one I can add one at a later date?

Short term upside with a Bowens kit is I could borrow a battery from uni.

I'm not preferencing Bowens, just pretty much all I have any knowledge on, like I've said need to do some research on the whole thing.
 
You're right, they do - but they are in fact mono heads that can also run from a battery, they are not generator units, so they have some advantages and some disadvantages compared to a generator unit.

Your best bet may be to read the very comprehensive Advanced Photographer head to head tests, carried out earlier this year - I always get mixed up with the date, but I think it was the March issue, published in February
 
I'm unsure of the difference? When power is available I'd like to use it rather than battery's, preserve the life and faster recharge etc.

Thanks for all your help, I'll try and find the article and get researching! Luckily I don't need them soon so have time to research etc.
 
Digitalize said:
I'm unsure of the difference? When power is available I'd like to use it rather than battery's, preserve the life and faster recharge etc.

Thanks for all your help, I'll try and find the article and get researching! Luckily I don't need them soon so have time to research etc.
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It's the February-dated edition of Advanced Photographer magazine. Back issues from their website.

I'm not a fan of the Bowens TravelPak. It's not a truly mobile system, just a battery to plug their regular heads into, with slow recycling and modest capacity. If you want that, then Innovatronix does it better http://www.theflashcentre.com/innovatronix-explorer-xt-se-i8353.html and you can take your pick of any head. Lencarta for value, Elinchrom if you have a bit more to spend.

If it's a pukka location kit, then Lencarta Safari Li-on wins easily on power and value, or Elinchrom Quadra is higher quality with more features. Get the S-head for max power, A-heads for fast durations.
 
HoppyUK said:
It's the February-dated edition of Advanced Photographer magazine. Back issues from their website.

I'm not a fan of the Bowens TravelPak. It's not a truly mobile system, just a battery to plug their regular heads into, with slow recycling and modest capacity. If you want that, then Innovatronix does it better http://www.theflashcentre.com/innovatronix-explorer-xt-se-i8353.html and you can take your pick of any head. Lencarta for value, Elinchrom if you have a bit more to spend.

If it's a pukka location kit, then Lencarta Safari Li-on wins easily on power and value, or Elinchrom Quadra is higher quality with more features. Get the S-head for max power, A-heads for fast durations.
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Cheers for that.

I see what you mean. I never had issue running 2 250s off a large pak but it's expensive and proprietary. Something that will work for anything sounds more useful. I'll look in to it, seems like it would work out similar price paired with a 400/500w kit too, maybe a little more.

Still not 100% sure what I'm wanting, it's all location work so I guess one designed for that would be good. I'll look in to them both thanks.
 
HoppyUK said:
I
I'm not a fan of the Bowens TravelPak. It's not a truly mobile system, just a battery to plug their regular heads into, with slow recycling and modest capacity. If you want that, then Innovatronix does it better http://www.theflashcentre.com/innovatronix-explorer-xt-se-i8353.html and you can take your pick of any head. Lencarta for value, Elinchrom if you have a bit more to spend.
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Just to disagree with you a little, I know the specs are modest for the travel pak, but in real use it never really presents any capacity issues. Just a quick example I shot mine most of yesterday, 2 500w heads on around 1/2 power. After maybe 400 pops like that its still reading 50% charged this morning. Although on full power recycling is pretty slow, with it turned down a little its more then fast enough.

It is as mobile as an innovatronix battery with a standard head
 
Garry Edwards said:
The reality is that nearly all twin head kits have the 'limitation' of a fixed ratio, which is normally 2:1. Exceptions are normally limited to a choice of other fixed ratios, rather than to true individual control.

True individual control is possible, but it basically involves having two separate flash generators sharing the same box and the same battery, which makes the whole thing heavy, bulky and very expensive.
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Actually, that's not true.

If you stick to old fashioned flash systems then you either get fixed ratios or heavy packs. Using newer tech it's perfectly possible to get complete control over both heads from a lightweight pack.

I was using one all day yesterday.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Actually, that's not true.

If you stick to old fashioned flash systems then you either get fixed ratios or heavy packs. Using newer tech it's perfectly possible to get complete control over both heads from a lightweight pack.

I was using one all day yesterday.
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For the sake of completeness, that's right. But I was talking about powerful units.
 
Garry Edwards said:
For the sake of completeness, that's right. But I was talking about powerful units.
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Oh. I thought the question was about Gemini 250s.

The ones I had yesterday were PLENTY powerful enough for an all day Indian/Turkish wedding. But you're right - I could have taken the dual mains/battery system if I had needed more power. Still full control of 2 heads off 1 battery pack.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Oh. I thought the question was about Gemini 250s.

The ones I had yesterday were PLENTY powerful enough for an all day Indian/Turkish wedding. But you're right - I could have taken the dual mains/battery system if I had needed more power. Still full control of 2 heads off 1 battery pack.
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The OP has plenty of choices, including the units that you sell.
I didn't fail to mention them specifically, I was talking about what may or may not be important to the OP.

The OP specifically mentioned the Bowens, which are a perfectly good unit if a few years out of date, and one of their problems is limited power. He also mentioned using a 150Ws mains flash head - that proved to be totally inadequate in terms of power, but it is more powerful than the units you're talking about.

If very fast recycling at low power settings, and very short flash duration at low power settings is important, plus good battery life at low power settings, then the field opens up even more, and the OP should look at the units you sell, as well as many others, including hotshoe flashes powered by separate battery packs.

It's all horses for courses.
 
Garry Edwards said:
He also mentioned using a 150Ws mains flash head - that proved to be totally inadequate in terms of power, but it is more powerful than the units you're talking about.
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Sigh.....

Since I don't have advertisers' privilege I'll leave this thread.

I'm sure Safaris will be perfect.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Sigh.....

Since I don't have advertisers' privilege I'll leave this thread.

I'm sure Safaris will be perfect.
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Well, if there are any privileges associated with being an advertiser, I suppose that I do have them - but I don't believe that there are any, other than the banner advert at the top of the page...

I may be wrong, but I believe that it may be OK for you to post relevant links as long as you also declare your interest, this is something that you might want to clarify with the admins.

But in any event, since your product is relevant to this thread, I think it's OK if I post it for you, so that the OP is aware of your option. I think it's this one

If I'm wrong, I may get into trouble but you won't:)
 
boyfalldown said:
Just to disagree with you a little, I know the specs are modest for the travel pak, but in real use it never really presents any capacity issues. Just a quick example I shot mine most of yesterday, 2 500w heads on around 1/2 power. After maybe 400 pops like that its still reading 50% charged this morning. Although on full power recycling is pretty slow, with it turned down a little its more then fast enough.

It is as mobile as an innovatronix battery with a standard head
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I thought you might Hugh ;) There's no doubt the Bowens TravelPak works, though maybe you are referring to the bigger version whereas I was thinking of the smaller one sold with the head kits. It's basically the same thing as the Innovatronix.

I imagine the OP is getting quite confused now. As a bit of general guidance, mobile flash kits come in various forms, and I don't think any one of them can truly claim to be equally good at both mains-connected studio work and location stuff.

As a rule, the fully mobile kits have small and lightweight heads with an LED modelling light, connected to a battery-generator that houses both the flash capacitors and controls, plus battery power pack. These power packs vary from huge and heavy lead-acid, to small and much lighter lithium (ie shoulder-portable). Expect slower recycling, limited modelling light, and check capacity.

Then there is another type that is basically just a battery and some pure sine-wave electronics that allow a regular mains-powered studio head to be used on location. Same limitations apply.

This seems to be an area ripe for development, particularly as lithium power becomes more available, but it's a bit of a minefield for the uninitiated. Traditionally the well-heeled professional will have separate mains and location outfits, but maybe that's changing. You need to be clear about primary requirements, read and ask questions, and perhaps hire something to try (Calumet, The Flash Centre etc).
 
I can't see myself ever really shooting in a studio, people aren't my thing at the moment. Much prefer location shoots too.

So with that, I guess it's better to be looking at a fully mobile solution? I think the capacitors/controls mounted in the battery would be a better idea too, guessing it makes the heads lighter, smaller and cheaper If they break.

The kit with a remote seems pretty nice, maybe a little excessive for now, and expensive really, looking closer to £500 but seems I'm not getting anything with a battery for that.
 
Digitalize said:
I can't see myself ever really shooting in a studio, people aren't my thing at the moment. Much prefer location shoots too.

So with that, I guess it's better to be looking at a fully mobile solution? I think the capacitors/controls mounted in the battery would be a better idea too, guessing it makes the heads lighter, smaller and cheaper If they break.

The kit with a remote seems pretty nice, maybe a little excessive for now, and expensive really, looking closer to £500 but seems I'm not getting anything with a battery for that.
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From what you've said, Lencarta Li-on still looks favourite. You will need all the power you can get and nothing matches the Lencarta at anything close to budget - at 600Ws it's two stops up on the Interfit 150.

No remote control though, so Elinchrom Quadra with Skyport is probably your best bet there. Very nice kit, especially with the lithium pack and option of fast flash durations with the A-head, but more money.
 
HoppyUK said:
I thought you might Hugh ;) There's no doubt the Bowens TravelPak works, though maybe you are referring to the bigger version whereas I was thinking of the smaller one sold with the head kits. It's basically the same thing as the Innovatronix.
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You know me :). I do only have the smaller battery though.
 
Had a look, the Safari Li-on does seem a very good kit, excellent reviews and it doesn't seem the forced 2:1 ratio will be too annoying as long as I remember which is which. Would still prefer a 1:1 split of 300w with individual control though!

Unfortunately it's way too expensive for me at the moment, but I'm unsure if there is any point looking at a mains kit when I'll rarely be within mains power reaches.
 
Just a quick thread hi jack sorry, can the battery be charged from a 12v car type supply with a cheap inverter or has it got to be one of those pure sine wave jobbies
 
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