Which lens to buy (IS or Not)

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Halflap

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Have decided to buy a Canon 70-200L lens but not sure which one to buy.

Cannot afford the latest F2.8 IS MkII version at around £1800

So the choice is between the F2.8 non IS at £950 or the F4 IS at just over £900.

Or should I just save money and go for the F4 Non IS at around £500.
 
Depends, are you shooting fast moving subjects in which case you'll be using the higher shutter speeds (making IS unnecessary)
 
Just general all round shooting. Portraits, Kids, days out, hols, Landscape. Took some shots of some 60's bands recently and was less than happy with the results.

Just not happy with the results from my current lenses/camera and wanting to take my photography to the next level.

Was going to buy a 5D MKII with 24-105 F4 but with all the rumours about possible new Canon Cameras over the next few months, I decided to upgrade lenses now and wait.
 
First of all....
2.8 is not something IS can compensate
But...
depends on the purpose of this new lens
you need to realise that whether you need 2.8 all the time (whether you want it for indoor low light shooting or outdoor sport shooting or what), sometimes you wont that large aperture in some cases like indoor portrait which subjects are too close that creates too much DoF

f4 With IS...
it is quite all rounded....close up, indoor, outdoor....


Accoding to my experience,
recommend to get f4 IS if you are using crop sensor cameras
but the 2.8 non IS if you are using full frame
 
Halflap said:
Have decided to buy a Canon 70-200L lens but not sure which one to buy.

Cannot afford the latest F2.8 IS MkII version at around £1800

So the choice is between the F2.8 non IS at £950 or the F4 IS at just over £900.

Or should I just save money and go for the F4 Non IS at around £500.
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Or do what I did and pick up a mint condition second hand f4 IS on fleabay for £690 :whistling:
 
What lenses do you currently have in that range or are now letting you down?
 
Thanks for all the suggestions

edinburgh said:
recommend to get f4 IS if you are using crop sensor cameras
but the 2.8 non IS if you are using full frame
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Can you expand on this. Why would 2.8 be better on full frame?. I was going to go full frame later this year and would not want to be changing the lens as well.

markmullen said:
I was in your predicament, I went for the F4 IS as it is weather sealed unlike the non IS.
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Was the weather sealing the only reason or did other things sway your decision towards the F4.

God said:
Or do what I did and pick up a mint condition second hand f4 IS on fleabay for £690
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Thanks for the suggestion. Personally will not use FleaBay.

AndyB1976 said:
What lenses do you currently have in that range or are now letting you down?
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Currently have
18-55 kit lens
Tamron 70-300
Sigma 28-300
50mm 1.8 II - Love the pictures but limiting on the focal length. Has been dropped twice. Pushed back together (probably incorrectly) and still works

All of these perform averagely well in ideal sunny conditions but struggle at other times.

I was originally thinking of the F2.8 as this would help with focussing. Also that this would give better quality when used stopped down to F4-5.6 than the F4 lens at F4-5.6. Not sure if I am correct with that or not.
 
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Halflap said:
Thanks for the suggestion. Personally will not use FleaBay.
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I agree it can be a pain sometimes, but I guess you can pick up some real bargains and if there are any issues you can still say the item wasnt as described and send it back. Bit of faffing for a saving but I guess you get your moneys worth in the end :)
I say this, Ive never once had a problem with anything I have bought off of ebay...
 
God said:
I agree it can be a pain sometimes, but I guess you can pick up some real bargains and if there are any issues you can still say the item wasnt as described and send it back. Bit of faffing for a saving but I guess you get your moneys worth in the end :)
I say this, Ive never once had a problem with anything I have bought off of ebay...
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I have the sort of luck that if 1 in a million was a scam, I would be that 1.
 
Does anyone know what the difference would be in resale value of the two lenses if I decided in 6 months to sell and buy the 2.8 IS MKII?
 
I'd definitely buy one of the IS models. I have the f4 non IS and miss IS a lot. I am used to having IS on my 300 f4 and 500 f4

I am currently trying to decide which 2.8 IS to get once I have enough cash.

Neil
 
I use my 70-200 f2.8 for different types of shoot so from this point of view I find it very useful to have IS on mine when I need it
 
I have the 70-200 F4 IS it’s a really great lens so sharp.

I know a lot of people manage without the IS but at 200mm I think you need it, maybe it’s just my subjects or shaky hands.

95% of the time the F4 is perfect the other 5% I wish I had the 70-200 F2.8 IS. One day!!!!
 
Halflap said:
Does anyone know what the difference would be in resale value of the two lenses if I decided in 6 months to sell and buy the 2.8 IS MKII?
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70-200mm F4 between £350-420
70-200mm F4 IS between £600-750

It really is dependent on age but if you bought new and sold at 6 months I wouldn't take less than the upper prices I've listed above.

However, if you buy 2nd hand for those prices than you could expect to lose no more than 10% in 6 months.
 
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I was in similar situation myself not long ago. I was stuck between a 2.8 Non IS or a F4 IS. After lots of advice I bit the bullet and bought a used 2.8 IS MK1 for around £900. The 2.8 IS is awesome in low light and gives amazing shallow DOF.
The only downside is it's bit heavy. If you buy a F4 or 2.8 Non IS I can guarantee you will be wondering what if..... I am so glad I got the 2.8 IS, good luck ;)
 
For the quality the f4 IS, for the vertability, the f2.8, you can allways use an moopod to compensate the shake. Or even better wait until you will get money for the f2.8 IS ;)
 
Halflap said:
Thanks for all the suggestions


Can you expand on this. Why would 2.8 be better on full frame?. I was going to go full frame later this year and would not want to be changing the lens as well.
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In crop sensor....70 x 1.6 = 112....since in a further focal length 112mm, DoF using a f4 can be obvious...
IN full frame .... 70 = 70mm, f/4 wont give you any impression DoF...your subject wont be isolated which you will still see the background in 70mm f4
(because minimum focus length is 1.2m)
however 2.8 gives you an great experience in DoF and faster focus speed on 5D or mark 2 (I expect you are not using 1D or 1Ds series)
 
edinburgh said:
In crop sensor....70 x 1.6 = 112....since in a further focal length 112mm, DoF using a f4 can be obvious...
IN full frame .... 70 = 70mm, f/4 wont give you any impression DoF...your subject wont be isolated which you will still see the background in 70mm f4
(because minimum focus length is 1.2m)
however 2.8 gives you an great experience in DoF and faster focus speed on 5D or mark 2 (I expect you are not using 1D or 1Ds series)
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I'm not sure I'm following exactly what you are saying, or if I am then actually you have your understanding of DoF and the relation to focal length and field of view confused.

With a full frame camera you will be using a longer lens than on a crop camera for the same field of view so actually you will get a shallower depth of field when you frame the same with a full frame camera than with a crop.

As DoF is a function of actual focal length (along with aperture and distance to subject - we won't go into circle of confusion as well.... that's more confusing) then the longer the focal length the shallower the depth of field.

So to go back to the 70mm example, you would actually use 112mm on the full frame camera to get the same field of view as 70mm on a crop camera so DoF is reduced. As it's almost 3am and I'm dead tired I will stop there in case my brain has given up, but check out http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html and punch in the relative info for each camera and see how it goes.
 
edinburgh said:
In crop sensor....70 x 1.6 = 112....since in a further focal length 112mm, DoF using a f4 can be obvious...
IN full frame .... 70 = 70mm, f/4 wont give you any impression DoF...your subject wont be isolated which you will still see the background in 70mm f4
(because minimum focus length is 1.2m)
however 2.8 gives you an great experience in DoF and faster focus speed on 5D or mark 2 (I expect you are not using 1D or 1Ds series)
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No that's not correct. A 70mm lens is 70mm on both cropped and FF. On cropped you just see a smaller part of the projected picture. So DoF should be the same
 
iced_jacob said:
No that's not correct. A 70mm lens is 70mm on both cropped and FF. On cropped you just see a smaller part of the projected picture. So DoF should be the same
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But you have to move backwards to get the same picture framing which increases DoF on the APS-C camera. That's why people say there is a DoF advantage to FF cameras.
 
iced_jacob said:
No that's not correct. A 70mm lens is 70mm on both cropped and FF. On cropped you just see a smaller part of the projected picture. So DoF should be the same
Click to expand...



OH I SEE.....
so its nth to do about the actually focal length .... but crop sensor is only showing a part of the 70mm which looks like 112 mm in full frame
I got this confused for years......OMG!!!!
SORRY "HALFLAP"...I made a wrong comment!!
THANKS people for correcting me!!!!
 
If you *need* the extra stop of the f/2.8 for low-light situations and/or shallower DoF then go that way. Otherwise get the F4 IS as it's a more versatile lens.
 
I would like to thank everyone for their help so far. It has all been really helpfull.

I think that Oxford_Matt was probably right when saying that if I bought anything but the 2.8 IS I would always be wondering what if. The only way I could do that would be to buy a 2nd hand MKI model.

Now though I have thrown another spanner in the works by looking at the Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 EX DG OS HSM which at £999 is about the same as the Canon 2.8 Non IS. I have heard some good things about the Sigma but also many bad things about their quality control. I would be worried that if I got a dodgy copy it would not really show on my current 450D but would when I upgrade to full frame later this year.
 
Halflap said:
I would like to thank everyone for their help so far. It has all been really helpfull.

I think that Oxford_Matt was probably right when saying that if I bought anything but the 2.8 IS I would always be wondering what if. The only way I could do that would be to buy a 2nd hand MKI model.
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Bear in mind that I went from an F4 IS to the F2.8 IS Mk1 and then back to the F4 IS again. You may well end up wondering "what if" if you don't get the F2.8 IS but then you may equally end up wishing you'd gone for the F4 IS instead :)
 
IMHO, the only reason to get the 2.8 anything is because you are running out of ISO speed or you want a DoF advantage. The 450D is quite limited ISO wise, the 5D2 is streets ahead by comparison. You will loose very little with going for the f4 if you are going to upgrade to a 5D2.

Additionally, don't forget the 2.8 is a lump of glass and 2x as heavy as the f4. The 5D2 (particularly if you put a grip on it) is over 2x the weight of a 450D. Not only will the 2.8 seriously outbalance the 450D, when you couple it with a 5D2, you will have a very weighty lump to carry about with you. That alone would put me off (and has) the 2.8.

At short distances, even f4 can be razor thin on DoF. I'd really think carefully and go for a second hand F4 first. I know I've never worried about either missing IS or the extra stop of light with the 5D2...
 
arad85 said:
IMHO, the only reason to get the 2.8 anything is because you are running out of ISO speed or you want a DoF advantage. The 450D is quite limited ISO wise, the 5D2 is streets ahead by comparison. You will loose very little with going for the f4 if you are going to upgrade to a 5D2.

Additionally, don't forget the 2.8 is a lump of glass and 2x as heavy as the f4. The 5D2 (particularly if you put a grip on it) is over 2x the weight of a 450D. Not only will the 2.8 seriously outbalance the 450D, when you couple it with a 5D2, you will have a very weighty lump to carry about with you. That alone would put me off (and has) the 2.8.

At short distances, even f4 can be razor thin on DoF. I'd really think carefully and go for a second hand F4 first. I know I've never worried about either missing IS or the extra stop of light with the 5D2...
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I think that's the wiser option. Save some of your money, get the f4 second hand. It's a smaller lens so it would feel more natural on your 450d. Put the money somewhere and never touch it and if you find the f4 is limiting you sell it (they tend to hold value used), get your money back and add the saved to get the 2.8!

The good thing with SLR owners is that we usually take care of our stuff so you can find a lot of lenses in great condition and also test it before you buy
 
iced_jacob said:
No that's not correct. A 70mm lens is 70mm on both cropped and FF. On cropped you just see a smaller part of the projected picture. So DoF should be the same
Click to expand...



Accorthing to this: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html


Simple change the Body between Canon 7D and Canon 5D MK2 and the dof will be diferent.


And the major point if the effective focal lenght, not the MM in the lens.

The same happend in 5X4,8x10 inch or 6x4,5, 6X6,6X7, 6X9, the effective focal lens is given by the sensor plus the lens that is there, an 150mm, its a Tele lens in 35mm format, but on 5x4, its normal one.


I shot 6x9, with an 135mm lens at 4.5 and gives me around the same dof at 2 meters, that shotting with 7D (1,6X) with 56mm lens at f2,8.
 
Wife wanted a trip to the coast today so I have taken her to Brighton with a stop at Park Cameras on the way :).

Tried the 2.8 and the 4 and as has been advised on here the 2.8 is a fair size on the 450D. I think I would have struggled to hand hold without the IS. So I bought the 70-200L F/4 IS at £909.

Thanks for all the help given. It really helped make the decision.

The diversion into DOF has been interesting as well :)
 
You will be not regreat with that lens, fantastic color and sharpness and very light compared with f2.8 IS.
 
Sorry to disagree but the 2.8's across the brands are fantastically easy to hand hold with correct technique. The missus is outside handholding hers for what will be 9 hours shooting.

(And no she's not built like a brick out house either)

Even back when I had the 300D the pair were easily held and balanced.
 
Thanks Neil_g. If I could have got the 2.8 IS I think I would have gone for that. To justify paying £1800 on a single lens i would need to be doing paid photography work which i do not want to do.

I have trouble handholding my current Sigma 28-300 unless shutter speeds are high. Either my technique needs improving or I just have shaky hands.

I had intended to buy the 24-70 2.8 as well. Problem was that it does not seem to be in stock at any of the major suppliers. There were rumours of a MKII version being released on April 21 but obviously with the horrific recent events in Japan that was not likely.

The guy I spoke to in Park Cameras sort of hinted at there being a shortage of 5D MKII's and the 24-105 F4 but also agreed that the 5D was looking good for a new version.
 
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