Which is it......?

big soft moose said:
Well at least you admit that you are just trolling - you must have a very sad life if that's how you spend your time



As I said when in a hole stop digging - it wasn't a comparison , it was an observation that its ironic that an Islamic group have an acronym which is also the name of a pagan goddess who's followers persecuted the founder of the Islamic faith. For someone who claims to have a law degree you aren't very good on the meanings of words.

Also I know you like to claim to be an expert on (pretty much everything but in particular) the Islamic region because you work for a shipping company which does some business in the area, but if that were true surely you'd have something more pertinent to add to this thread rather than frankly pathetic hair splitting and pedantry
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:dummy1:
 
I'm going up to Scotland tomorrow for a few days. It'll be interesting to see how this thread has developed when I get back. Always assuming it's still open.:)
 
andy700 said:
The name changes depending which sources of information you read.
The term ISIL means Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, and refers to the potential Islamification of all Middle East countries including others such as Southern Turkey and Cyprus.
I would also suggest that anyone considering a holiday in the last two places should maybe reconsider.
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Not sure why your advising people to avoid Cyprus. Could you please explain.
 
Bernie174 said:
Andy

Apart from an exercise in finding out who's against ISIL/ISIS or whatever they want to call themselves this week, it would achieve nothing. It might well have the opposite effect, attracting those who don't like any race and start a mass punch up. While I always looked forward to a good bundle when I was a Police Officers, really, they do have other things to do.
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I hope that you do not represent the average police (or ex) police officers intellect Bernie, I really do.
On the other hand, my recent dealings with the police have revealed that sadly, the majority are as thick as two short planks, and seem to hold views which are more in line with the criminal fraternity - obviously they spend a lot of time together, so you may expect behavioural patterns to merge, and maybe a kind of "kinship" develop"?
To get to the point, if people of all races and creeds were demonstrating against a common enemy, why on earth would you expect violence to break out?
 
To get to the point, if people of all races and creeds were demonstrating against a common enemy, why on earth would you expect violence to break out?
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Simply because you wont attract all races and creeds on the supporting side. You will also attract a counter demo, in exactly the same was as when the NF used to march, they only had to be there, those on the counter demo always felt obliged to start the throwing bricks, bottles etc. You can stop that by very large numbers of police, which then takes them away from what they should be doing.

However, neither that, nor your point on police change the simple fact that a demo is utterly pointless, and would have no impact on anything. Those you suggest it is aimed at aren't interested.

Trying cheap shots at the Police isn't helpful either, most of the public I met as a Policeman lacked common sense, and an inability to resolve their own problems, no matter what social standing they held. It does not mean that every member of the public is the same, in exactly the same way as your opinion of some does not mean all Police officers.

Not sure why your advising people to avoid Cyprus. Could you please explain.
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I think he presumes because aircraft are launched from Cyprus, then IS would target it.
However, even as a thick ex copper, I know that the UK bases on Cyprus are independent of the Cypriot State, and are in effect British Overseas territories. While the Cypriot Government are supportive of the attacks, they have no say or control over our use of the bases. Unlike for example the US bases here which remain RAF Stations and cannot be used for offensive action without the UK's consent.

So an attack on the Cypriots as revenge or an attempt to prevent the RAF using the base would be pointless and a waste of resources. Attacking the bases themselves might well happen, but Akortiri is well away from anywhere you'd go as a tourist, and very well protected.

I would advise you to avoid Cyprus at the moment, but only because if you think it's nice and hot, it's not. in around a months time, it gets bloody cold. We used to break ice on puddles on the way to school from the end of October.
 
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Bernie174 said:
Simply because you wont attract all races and creeds on the supporting side. You will also attract a counter demo,

most of the public I met as a Policeman lacked common sense, and an inability to resolve their own problems, no matter what social standing they held.

I think he presumes because aircraft are launched from Cyprus, then IS would target it.
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1) The only people likely to arrange a counter demo to this would be supporters of ISIL. Do you really think that they wiould be bold enough to show who they are? If they did, then the security forces would have a field day.

2) I often imagined that is how the police regarded the general public, so you have simply confirmed that.

3) Irrespective of where the planes are based, I believe that there is a danger to Western tourists in Turkish and Cypriot resorts, due to the proximity of them to the war zone.
 
1. Not necessarily so, there's a body of opinion amongst Muslims that the general population has a biased against them, so it wouldn't just be 'supporters' of ISIL that would turn up.

2. Not at all, Doing something is better than being sat around doing nothing. Generally, on a demo, there are coach loads of police officers sat around in side roads. If there's a punch up then we got to play. As I said, some members of the public aren't very bright, but not all of them. Police come from the public, it's no surprise if they match the levels of that source. However most police officers can grasp what the problem is with your demo plan. I think that tells us something.

3. There is a danger to Westerners no matter where they are, thats the essential point on this issue you don't seem able to grasp. Cyprus is not that close to the fighting in fact and there's no more danger to people there than there is anywhere else. The same with most of Turkey. Nothing in all that has changed in the last few weeks. You would have been a bit stupid going to the Turkey Iraq boarder 2 months ago, 2 years ago, or 10 years ago.
 
Bernie174 said:
You would have been a bit stupid going to the Turkey Iraq boarder 2 months ago, 2 years ago, or 10 years ago.
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Why? The Zakho border has been (until recently), one of the most stable Iraqi border areas, even during the the last conflict.
Dodgy as all hell now though, but then even Trebil's a bit spicy at the moment.
 
The Turks have had a problem with Iraqi Kurds for many years. Historical Kurdistan extends over the Turkish boarder. So, the issue hasn't been with Iraq, as such, although in theory Kurds are Iraqi, but a bullet hurts no matter who fires it.
 
You might also like Eliza Massey http://elizajmassey.blogspot.co.uk/

can't find the one i was looking for - On a forum I used to be on, she rode from the UK, down through through europe, middle east, africa, shipped her bike to Asia and rode all around there. Paused in vietnam or thailand for 9 months to earn money, shipped the bike to New Zealand, rode all around both islands and last I heard was doing Australia. She was then planning to do the US, via Japan. She had a gps logger than plotted her route on her website, but I no longer know what it is... :(
 
Byker28i said:
You might also like Eliza Massey http://elizajmassey.blogspot.co.uk/

can't find the one i was looking for - On a forum I used to be on, she rode from the UK, down through through europe, middle east, africa, shipped her bike to Asia and rode all around there. Paused in vietnam or thailand for 9 months to earn money, shipped the bike to New Zealand, rode all around both islands and last I heard was doing Australia. She was then planning to do the US, via Japan. She had a gps logger than plotted her route on her website, but I no longer know what it is... :(
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Thanks for that (y)
I'll definately take a look at that from home.
Works server doesn't let us access blogspot :lol:
 
andy700 said:
3) Irrespective of where the planes are based, I believe that there is a danger to Western tourists in Turkish and Cypriot resorts, due to the proximity of them to the war zone.
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Well it's never EVER happened before but there's always a first time for everything I suppose.

But I would be more concerned walking the streets of London than Larnaca.
 
viv1969 said:
Looks like a good read.
Iran (looking at the link - not had time to read it yet) is a very different kettle of fish to Iraq, and doesn't even have to be war torn or terrorist riddled to be dodgy, especially for women.
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Speaking from experience, I felt less threatened in Iran than many other parts of the World. I think that women would be treated better in Iran than Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iraq and many other Middle Eastern countries. The people are very friendly, and even strangers will be happy to try out their English on you. The standard of driving in Iran is a bit worse (a lot worse actually) than we would expect over here, and I get the impression that there is no impression of being vulnerable. Walking around Iranian cities - Tehran, Isfahan, Shiraz, even at night was a very chilled out experience, very safe, and although the police are armed, I never witnessed any incidents (apart from traffic related, where the policeman had his hands on his hips shaking his head in disbelief at the two drivers).
The problem is, that the foreign office tend to put out negative comments about Iran, probably because they don't want people like myself saying how much I enjoyed it there.
 
The Greek said:
Well it's never EVER happened before but there's always a first time for everything I suppose.

But I would be more concerned walking the streets of London than Larnaca.
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I would be concerned in the future about nearly every city in Europe, but particularly concerned about going to places where there are many Western tourists from places which have supported the bombing raids on ISIL.
 
i think you will find thats standard practise for most places that don't meet the M.I.B formula that our government support ,i.e i would feel nervous walking through my own small welsh town late at night but have no problem in sharm el sheik
 
andy700 said:
Speaking from experience, I felt less threatened in Iran than many other parts of the World. I think that women would be treated better in Iran than Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iraq and many other Middle Eastern countries. The people are very friendly, and even strangers will be happy to try out their English on you. The standard of driving in Iran is a bit worse (a lot worse actually) than we would expect over here, and I get the impression that there is no impression of being vulnerable. Walking around Iranian cities - Tehran, Isfahan, Shiraz, even at night was a very chilled out experience, very safe, and although the police are armed, I never witnessed any incidents (apart from traffic related, where the policeman had his hands on his hips shaking his head in disbelief at the two drivers).
The problem is, that the foreign office tend to put out negative comments about Iran, probably because they don't want people like myself saying how much I enjoyed it there.
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I've personally only ever been there 3 times; twice to Tehran, and once to Bandar Abbas, and whilst I've never had problems, I've also never mozeyed around alone.
I have though, seen how some women were treated and spoken to. Their "rules" for women are archaic, and the punishments for infringing them are harsh.
I have no experience of Saudi.
 
viv1969 said:
I've personally only ever been there 3 times; twice to Tehran, and once to Bandar Abbas, and whilst I've never had problems, I've also never mozeyed around alone.
I have though, seen how some women were treated and spoken to. Their "rules" for women are archaic, and the punishments for infringing them are harsh.
I have no experience of Saudi.
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So, we have been the same number of times. I only walked around on my own for half a day when I visited Shiraz, and didn't have any problems. The dress code for women in Iran is one of the most relaxed in the Middle East (but like you I don't agree with it), and in all the places I visited, many of the younger women were really pushing the boundaries, wearing designer jeans, light tops, and the Roosarie (headscarf) pulled back so far they may just as well not have been wearing one. All the women wear makeup, and it is only in the holy areas - mosques etc, where you see women wearing the full length chador - but again the face is left uncovered.
I have never witnessed any women in Iran being spoken to or treated badly (although like ALL other countries I have no doubt that it does go on). Women in Iran are allowed to drive, have equal education rights, and can be employed in commerce and industry at top levels.
As for Saudi Arabia, I think that most people are aware of their attitude towards women, and it is a direct result of the teachings of Sunni Wahhabism (which originated in Saudi Arabia) in the Madrassas of Gulf States, Pakistan and Afghanistan, that despotic extremists treat women so badly in the Middle East.
 
andy700 said:
So, we have been the same number of times. I only walked around on my own for half a day when I visited Shiraz, and didn't have any problems. The dress code for women in Iran is one of the most relaxed in the Middle East (but like you I don't agree with it), and in all the places I visited, many of the younger women were really pushing the boundaries, wearing designer jeans, light tops, and the Roosarie (headscarf) pulled back so far they may just as well not have been wearing one. All the women wear makeup, and it is only in the holy areas - mosques etc, where you see women wearing the full length chador - but again the face is left uncovered.
I have never witnessed any women in Iran being spoken to or treated badly (although like ALL other countries I have no doubt that it does go on). Women in Iran are allowed to drive, have equal education rights, and can be employed in commerce and industry at top levels.
As for Saudi Arabia, I think that most people are aware of their attitude towards women, and it is a direct result of the teachings of Sunni Wahhabism (which originated in Saudi Arabia) in the Madrassas of Gulf States, Pakistan and Afghanistan, that despotic extremists treat women so badly in the Middle East.
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Should only get better since the poisoned dwarf ceased to be president too.

I so wanted to visit Persepolis, but didn't get the opportunity....I doubt I'll go back now :(
 
viv1969 said:
Should only get better since the poisoned dwarf ceased to be president too.

I so wanted to visit Persepolis, but didn't get the opportunity....I doubt I'll go back now :(
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Never say never. I am convinced (I do hope that I am right), that the old guard of hardline Conservative fundamentalists will die out in Iran, because of the demographic in the country (so many young people, compared to the UK where there is a majority of older people).
I also think that Rouhani is a definite step in the right direction.
Tourism to Iran is actually quite healthy amongst other European nations - Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, but diplomatic relations with the UK have not thawed out completely.
Persepolis is a fantastic place to visit, because you get a real sense of being transported back to the ancient World. Pasargadae is also another interesting place, the capital city of Cyrus the Great, which has his two and a half thousand year tomb.
 
andy700 said:
Never say never. I am convinced (I do hope that I am right), that the old guard of hardline Conservative fundamentalists will die out in Iran, because of the demographic in the country (so many young people, compared to the UK where there is a majority of older people).
I also think that Rouhani is a definite step in the right direction.
Tourism to Iran is actually quite healthy amongst other European nations - Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, but diplomatic relations with the UK have not thawed out completely.
Persepolis is a fantastic place to visit, because you get a real sense of being transported back to the ancient World. Pasargadae is also another interesting place, the capital city of Cyrus the Great, which has his two and a half thousand year tomb.
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You’re not kidding. Sanctions have meant it's become almost impossible to export there. The documentation required is staggering for some items of possible dual use.
There are exceptions for the likes of food, medical goods etc. (almost like the Iraqi Oil for Food programme in the 90’s / 00’s), but in terms of manufacturing and transport it’s a nightmare.
Just Googled Pasargadae and yeah it looks like another great place to visit.
 
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