Which compact system?

Ajf350d

Ajf350d

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I am looking to get a compact camera system to compliment my full size Canon sale - 600d.

Like many I am sometimes finding the weight and bulk is restrictive.


Only want to spend around £400 to £450 with one lens.

I have considered another fixed lens compact but think I will go with interchangeable lens ones and the larger four thirds or aps-c sensor.


So far I have thought about

Olympic E-PL5 or E-PM2 with the 14-42mm lens.

Like the idea of the built in art' filters for the likely use it would get, but against it looks a bit basic control wise without using menus.
Price wise these also seem to be available at excellent prices considering this is a second camera.


Fuji x-e1 or x-m1 with 27mm lens or possibly 35mm lens if I stretch the budget. These are assuming I can get used from non etc.

Seems to have good control via dials and aperture on some lenses. Not many obvious negatives from what I can see.


Any comments and other suggestions?

From the examples above I hope you get an idea of the type and sizes I am after.

I would have liked wireless built in but I guess I can use eye-fi with them?
 
Out of the 4 only the XE-1 has a build in viewfinder if you need that,and with the firmware update its still a very good camera.

The others i havnt tried any of them :)
 
I rarely take my Canon 5DM2 out of the house. My wife got fed up with carting it around for me (that might have been a joke). For a walk-about camera I use a Panasonic G3 which is excellent. It just feels so good to use, and I much prefer using it to the 5D - although the 5D does take better images for printing. The Panasonic is up to the G6 now - here's a link to it http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-panasonic-lumix-dmc-g6-digital-camera-with-14-42mm-lens/p1538079 It's a good deal for £469. The kit lens is 14-42 and is a pretty good lens. I also have the Panasonic/Leica macro lens (45mm) that they do, but that's £600!

Review http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/slrs/panasonic_dmcg6

I'd urge you to visit a large camera store and try some cameras for yourself before you buy. The G6 is a small camera and some people find it fiddly to use if they have large hands or a dexterity problem.

 
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I recently picked up the EPL-5, and, although it lacks the wonderful feature-rich capabilities of more expensive MFT kit and equivalent, it's very good for what it is. If you can cope with no EVF, or having to buy one to get the capability, it's not a bad little snapper at all. With the 14mm pancake f/2.5, it's slim enough to put in a jacket pocket.

The Double Zoom Kit can be had for £399 at Currys, which I think is a pretty good deal (14-42 and 40-150). I'm still learning about it, but there are some examples from the EPL-5 on my stream here, if that helps in decision making. If you want an accompaniment, decide how much it should cost - it'd be easy to spank £1500+ on a complimentary camera system, but it depends on what you have to spend and how much you think you'll use it.

Like how you described, my 350D (old!) is more or less retired now, as OH loves being able to press the screen to take photos and focus on specific points. It is a small unit and people do indeed find it a bit tricky. I have size 11 hands (I play in goal a fair bit, which is why I know my glove size), and I would struggle if I was using an EVF, but I instead brace the camera to my body and fold the screen out. The stabilisation is really very good indeed and allows for some remarkable shots at 150mm (300mm equiv) by hand, where my Canon equivalent 150mm wasn't up to the job (progress, it seems).

FWIW, I am yet to use the art filters - CS6 probably does more for my needs, but I don't tend to tinker too much. Most of the MFT range is slim, so a lot of them will do equivalent jobs in terms of size and portability. I chose MFT for the lens choices mainly (and the impressive sensors all things considered). The EPL-5 uses the same sensor as the OM-D E-M5, but has two-axis stabilisation to the E-M5's five axis (if you didn't already know).

Good luck!
 
The e-pl5 is very cheap at the moment, some places have been selling it for £330. Add another £100 for a used evf or an additional lens such as a Sigma 19/2.8, Sigma 30/2.8, Sigma 60/2.8 or Panasonic 14/2.5.

Focusing with the touch screen is easy and there's dedicated buttons for most things including exposure compensation, iso etc.
 
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sony nex or ax000 series is good too, or buy a sigma dp and take pics that would make your canon cry :)
 
manualfocus-g said:
The e-pl5 is very cheap at the moment, some places have been selling it for £330. Add another £100 for a used evf or an additional lens such as a Sigma 19/2.8, Sigma 30/2.8, Sigma 60/2.8 or Panasonic 14/2.5.

Focusing with the touch screen is easy and there's dedicated buttons for most things including exposure compensation, iso etc.
Click to expand...

Indeed- £330 is cheap and another £70 for the 40-150mm zoom is a bargain for the DZK at £399.

All the buttons can be reconfigured as well - not just the Fn button at the top, though I have left most of the buttons as standard, with the Fn being a quick ISO selection. That said, enabling super control panel is like a world of difference from stock too.

The 14mm f/2.5 Panasonic lens is £99 mint from Camera Jungle to boot - they go for about £120 on eBay, so it's not a bad deal either.
 
Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions.
I am leaning towards one of the Olympus I think, partly based on price, but also the examples 'thesilverfox' posted which are outstanding and well within what I was expecting.
As also pointed out it is too easy to start adding up big numbers looking at the options!
The 14-42 kit lens seems to be decent too so also reduces the need to then immediately buy other lenses.
I have seen the E-PL5 for £310 with lens and the E-PM2 for £265 with lens. Is the main difference just the movable screen?

The Fuji with 35mm is nice but I start to think I might find the one focal length slightly restrictive, even if it does give superior quality to a zoom.
I can see me then spending extra on more lenses.

Interesting suggestion of the Sigma though. I assume that would be the DP3 Merrill?
I keep reading very mixed reviews on this camera and again, given the fixed lens, after further thought I am not sure it is quite what I want.

One quick clarification. The four thirds Olympus has a 2x crop factor I think?
So the 14-42 is 28-84mm '35mm' equivalent.
 
Ajf350d said:
Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions.
I am leaning towards one of the Olympus I think, partly based on price, but also the examples 'thesilverfox' posted which are outstanding and well within what I was expecting.
As also pointed out it is too easy to start adding up big numbers looking at the options!
The 14-42 kit lens seems to be decent too so also reduces the need to then immediately buy other lenses.
I have seen the E-PL5 for £310 with lens and the E-PM2 for £265 with lens. Is the main difference just the movable screen?

The Fuji with 35mm is nice but I start to think I might find the one focal length slightly restrictive, even if it does give superior quality to a zoom.
I can see me then spending extra on more lenses.

Interesting suggestion of the Sigma though. I assume that would be the DP3 Merrill?
I keep reading very mixed reviews on this camera and again, given the fixed lens, after further thought I am not sure it is quite what I want.

One quick clarification. The four thirds Olympus has a 2x crop factor I think?
So the 14-42 is 28-84mm '35mm' equivalent.
Click to expand...

Yes AJF,2x crop as you say.
I had the E-PL5,i was most impressed with it,very fast focussing.the 45mm lens is great
 
Ajf350d said:
Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions.
I am leaning towards one of the Olympus I think, partly based on price, but also the examples 'thesilverfox' posted which are outstanding and well within what I was expecting.
As also pointed out it is too easy to start adding up big numbers looking at the options!
The 14-42 kit lens seems to be decent too so also reduces the need to then immediately buy other lenses.
I have seen the E-PL5 for £310 with lens and the E-PM2 for £265 with lens. Is the main difference just the movable screen?

The Fuji with 35mm is nice but I start to think I might find the one focal length slightly restrictive, even if it does give superior quality to a zoom.
I can see me then spending extra on more lenses.

Interesting suggestion of the Sigma though. I assume that would be the DP3 Merrill?
I keep reading very mixed reviews on this camera and again, given the fixed lens, after further thought I am not sure it is quite what I want.

One quick clarification. The four thirds Olympus has a 2x crop factor I think?
So the 14-42 is 28-84mm '35mm' equivalent.
Click to expand...


dp1 is 28mm equivilent, dp2 is 42ish i think and dp3 is 75mm equivilent, there nearly identical apart from lens. at low iso they are superb. and terrible at high iso :x. but where they are good, they would give you better pictures than anything canon has produced :)
and they are a pixel peepers dream as they are so damn sharp. most pics viewed at 100% are utterly sharp and packed with detail.

if you can live with its foibles and it suits your needs, then you do get near leica levels of wanting them :)
 
For the same money as the epl5 you could get either the Fuji XM-1 or XA-1 with the kit zoom. The advantage of the Fujis is the sensor is larger than the micro-4/3s on the Olympus or Panasonic, so the quality is better. And their kit zooms are optically extremely good - arguably better than the Olympus 14-42. However the Fujis don't have a viewfinder and unlike the Olympus, don't have an add-on one available either.
 
You can check the exact differences between models here:
http://snapsort.com/compare/Olympus-PEN-E-PL5-vs-Olympus-PEN-E-PM2

In a nutshell, EPL-5 has flip-out screen (a must if no default EVF) and slightly faster start-up (not many of us would notice). EPM-2 has CAF with video.

Pretty close. If you'd be doing film more, EPM-2. If you want a bit more street photography and remain unnoticed, EPL-5 (due to articulated screen benefits).
 
Again thanks for the help and suggestions.
Problem is now I have started looking I keep seeing 'alternatives'!

Good point re the sensor size of the Fuji ones, but from a pure quality viewpoint the 4/3 seem to be pretty good. The only other advantage I guess is the ability to get shallower DOF with an APS-C sensor but not sure how much of a difference there is there.

Still looking towards the Olympus though. Main reasons are initial lower price - lower than X-M1 - and also the range of cameras and lenses available if I did for some reason find I prefer a compact system to my current Canon.
 
I saw the Fuji X-A1 with the 16-50 kit lens for £389 with the offer of a 55-230 free lens. Flog that and buy a prime if zooms are not for you and bobs your mothers brother!!

Although the X-E1 that's currently on offer from WEX is mega tempting!! :)
 
Decisions!
One additional thought:
With the XM-1 (not sure if XA-1 is the same) it appears to have two control dials/wheels. Can these be set for shutter and aperture?
Couple of reviews I read were unclear.
That 'might' be clincher for the Fuji if it does!
 
Ajf350d said:
Decisions!
One additional thought:
With the XM-1 (not sure if XA-1 is the same) it appears to have two control dials/wheels. Can these be set for shutter and aperture?
Couple of reviews I read were unclear.
That 'might' be clincher for the Fuji if it does!
Click to expand...
Yes I believe they can. I'm also pretty certain that the only differences between the XM1 and XA1 are the sensor type and the price, so they're functionally identical.
 
DOF is a sticking point for some when comparing APS-C and MFT. It's perfectly valid, too, but it's horses for courses and all that. I would prefer the larger sensor, but decided that a wealth of lens options was more important to me - the overall perfect system and accessories doesn't yet exist (to the very best of my knowledge and the caveats we all place on what perfect is).

Most of the mirrorless systems that I looked at allow all the buttons (more or less) to be reconfigured and remapped. The EPL-5 (my only full experience, so of course, slightly biased), allows nearly all buttons to be re-assigned, including the rear dial/wheel, and the directional "click" button.

Though the defaults are pretty much spot on, I do like the ability to assign ISO/DOF preview elsewhere. In fairness, there aren't many lemons in the systems and models you've referenced. A lot of pressure to get the "right" one, but probably best to decide how "right" feels to you personally - they're all relatively comparable and it's a case of going to shoot and being happy with the gear available!
 
I have 2 CSC systems - I have a couple of Fuji X series bodies and 4 lenses as well as a pair of 1 series Nikons - the AW for underwater and the V1 because it was a bargain and is fairly permanently fitted with the FT-1 adaptor and an 18-200mm zoom, although the 70-300 gets fitted when I want a bit more reach. I've taken plenty of photos that I'm very happy with from all the bodies but the Fujis are the ones that usually come out to play when I'm out and about since the ultimate image quality SOOC (JPEGs) is better IMO.

You might be lucky and find a small 1 series kit for your budget - possibly even a body, converter and a lens if you want to use F mount lenses on it. The main reason I went for the 1 series was that I have loads of F mount lenses to mount on it (and the USP of the AW!), not something that a Canon shooter would have in their bag.
 
I have been through more CSCs than is really sensible trying to find the one that suits me best and none are perfect but all have been very good (apart for a faulty Olympus). Personally I don't get one with the controls on the Sonys and found the small sensor in the Nikons very limiting. I currently have a couple of m43 bodies which are excellent and also the Canon EOS M. For me (as a Canon user) the EOS M is my favourite so far. The controls are very familiar and the results are outstanding (it will perform at least as well as your 600D). Amazon currently have it with the kit lens for £245 which is a bargain then add the 22mm for ~£100 and you'll be set up for under your budget. I really like shooting the M with the 22mm. It is a very compact set up which delivers great results. Since getting it my m43s gear has hardly had a look in and will probably be sold soon.

That said I am on the verge of buying a Fuji to try as the current offers are too good to resist...
 
postcardcv said:
I have been through more CSCs than is really sensible ...
Click to expand...
Sounds like me :) I agree with you on the Sony - I had a NEX-5 for a while and the results were good, but I found the kit zoom poor and the interface horrible. I also agree with you on the EOS-M. The initial reviews slated it for slow AF and killed the sales, but it's not that bad and improved considerably with the recent update, and the results are excellent. The ability to mount EOS lenses is less useful than I'd expected though as they become cimbersome on the M, and focus slower than on a proper EOS body. However the dedicated lenses are all extremely good. I also own and use m43 cameras (Olympus and Panasonic) but the image quality from the larger APS-C cameras is noticeably better in my experience. If image quality is a prime factor I'd always pick the largest sensore, although I've yet to try the Sony full-frame cameras. If image quality is less critical, then the feature-set offered by the OM-D cameras is so good they are hard to beat and make them the best replacement for a DSLR kit.
 
Regarding depth of field, the diference between an aps-c and m43 is about half or two thirds of a stop, not really much. And to all intents and purposes the output is almost identical.

I have had both a fuji (an x100) and a m43 (omd em5). I used the fuji as a walk around camera when i had a nikon dslr, and loved it despites its shortcomings. But after using an omd, and studying the quality of output it can achieve, ditched both the fuji and the nikon, and went to m43. I personally find the omd much more responsive than the x100 (and also an x100s i have tried). The lenses are also more compact than the fuji, and the omd is tiny when i ditch the hand grip and use a small prime like the 17, 25 or 45. But you may fall in love with the fuji 'feel' of the camera, rather than the outright responsiveness and usability of the omd.

Without you trying out the cameras and seeing how they feel to you, these recommendations are only words on the screen. And personally, i would find a used camera here in whatever system you decide on, get one decent lens, and stick to that for a couple of months before spending a lot of moey on what maybe the wrong system.
 
Wow, more replies :)
Didn't think I would get so many helpful posts and I also appreciate no one has gone off about which is better and don't buy this and that etc!
All very civilized compared to some other forums!

Still a bit undecided so think I will make a list of the pros and cons of all the options suggested and then try and see the best options in store.
 
postcardcv said:
I have been through more CSCs than is really sensible trying to find the one that suits me best and none are perfect but all have been very good (apart for a faulty Olympus). Personally I don't get one with the controls on the Sonys and found the small sensor in the Nikons very limiting. I currently have a couple of m43 bodies which are excellent and also the Canon EOS M. For me (as a Canon user) the EOS M is my favourite so far. The controls are very familiar and the results are outstanding (it will perform at least as well as your 600D). Amazon currently have it with the kit lens for £245 which is a bargain then add the 22mm for ~£100 and you'll be set up for under your budget. I really like shooting the M with the 22mm. It is a very compact set up which delivers great results. Since getting it my m43s gear has hardly had a look in and will probably be sold soon.

That said I am on the verge of buying a Fuji to try as the current offers are too good to resist...
Click to expand...

Same here in the end found the Fuji were best for me,as those i wish they would hurry up and bring the faster zooms soon :)
 
I switched to M43 exclusively last year, partially driven by a burglary that took away my Nikon gear.....

You know what, they done me a favour. The size of the format is brilliant. M43 from Olympus and Panasonic is very good. I choose it over;
- Canon M: well do I really need to explain that one?
- Sony Nex: just didn't like the look of the bodies, didn't have the lenses that I'd be interested in, etc
- Sony RX1: I was very tempted, but knew I'd still had to get another camera as I couldn't solely shoot at that focal length
- Fuji: Very interesting, but coming from Nikon with holy trinity lenses I was used to fast auto focus, point, click and a keeper. The focussing system is just not fast enough for me...
- Leica: No auto focus, although they do now and it looks very very interesting....but you need a big budget...

M43 to me had the lenses and lens quality that I wanted, it has the auto focus speed, is small, and got outstanding quality....I think it is a very good compromise for quality....

My main camera is the Olympus PEN E-P5, just love the retro look of it. The super fast instant focusing. The build quality is amazing. And it has like my Nikon had the two control wheel in exactly the right place. As silverfox has highlighted, you can reconfigure anything if you don't like it.

A few more great advantages;
  • Shooting with wide open apertures is great. The sensor size is to me an advantage, instead of just having a single eyelash in focus or an ear lobe you'll get the whole side of a face. Thus you have the light gathering advantage over the larger sensor cameras, and you have a picture with decent focus, and auto focus remains lightning fast (think I've mentioned that a few times).
  • Size - M43 sensor means great sized lenses as well. An APS-C or FF sensor size will mean larger lenses. My Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 is same focal length and aperture as my Nikon 70-200 f2.8 was. Also super quality, but the size is about the same as the flange and the tripod mount of the Nikon. Superb when you like street photography etc it is not intimidating for any subject.
  • The collection of prime lenses got to be one of the best....Superb examples like the instant 17mm f1.8 (classic 35mm lens), the rendering of the 25mm f1.4 which is just special, the quality and sharpness you get for the 45mm f1.8 at a bargain price anyone should have one, and then the very costly but oh so amazing 42.5mm f1.2....it is rivalling one of the sharpest lenses of them all the 75mm f1.8...
  • And then there are the quality zooms 12-40 f2.8 from Olympus and the 12-35/35-100 f2.8 combo from Panasonic. Amazing zooms.
  • And recently I got a tele zoom, an Olympus 75-300...whilst on paper it reads like a very slow lens...and yes it is from an aperture perspective...however it is an outdoor lens as after all it is an 150-600mm equivalent. Super fast to focus, very quiet, and excellent out smooth out of focus rendering.
I'm so impressed with the 75-300 I've included a picture at 300mm f/6.7 1/400 ISO200 as shot on my Olympus PEN E-P5 hand held....So that is 600mm in full frame terms....It was on my first outing...
American Bald Eagle by JP de Jong, on Flickr

So yes, I like the micro four-thirds format :)
 
Even the cheap 40-150mm kit lens does a bang up job on the E-PL5 and will increase your focal range on the 14-42mm without breaking the bank. Both with the E-PL5 and 40-150mm kit lens.

f5.6 @ ISO 800

Friends by Paul Silk Photography, on Flickr


f6.7 @ ISO 3200
Gabriel by Paul Silk Photography, on Flickr
 
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How is the decision going? Have you considered the panasonic g5, a very capable camera indeed. I sold mine to upgrade my dslr kit, but would have one back or certainly would consider an eos m, plus you have the option for an adapter for your main canon lenses too.
 
Panasonic GX1 with 14-42 pancake zoom and/or a pancake prime (20mm f1.7 or 17mm f2.8).
Loads available second hand for well within budget.
 
Sorry for no more replies, but good news :)
I got the Olympus E-PL5 kit from Currys last night.
After much decision making and to and froing I decided the M43 was the best option as it seems to have the most potential for future expansion - I REALLY like the look of the E5 and E1 bodies..!
Not 'used' it as such yet, just going through the manual and setting up all the options how I wan them. eventually found how to get the Super Control Panel too.
One thing I think I will have to add sooner rather than later if I am really happy is a Macro lens as the small size makes it much easier to handle for this compared to my Canon SLR.
 
I like my EPL-5 so much, I picked up the EPM-1 body only for £99.99 :) It's a more basic body (of course), but it's a great little bit of kit. Spare beater body!

Bear in mind, the below is JPEG OOC, then cropped in MS Office photo editor (all I gots at work today). It's a 100% crop from the "small" 12MP sensor on the EPM-1, of a shirt in my bedroom with sunlight shafts lighting it. I'm very impressed (used my 14mm Panasonic f/2.5). My free 17mm f/2.8 black pancake is on its way today as well - hooray!

P5150003ms.jpg
 
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theres 2, an olympus 60mm and a panasonic 45 - take a lokk at photozone for reviews, hevent used either myself, but would probably go for the longer olympus.
 
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