Which basic kit to consider buying

[Garry Edwards]

The Bowens results seem quite good, the Alien Bees are about what I would expect. I feel that they demonstrate the importance of consistent colour temperature.

AB's are incredibly popular in The States and with good reason - they brought basic studio lighting within reach of people who wouldn't otherwise have used it and although some of their own accessories may not be very good, they use the Balcar accessory fitting, which means that there's a good range of high quality accessories available.

Like Interfit in this country, they tend to sell to newcomers who recommend them on forums (perhaps they wouldn't if they had experience of other makes) and have a loyal, almost passionate customer base that they maybe don't deserve. Good luck to them, and to their owner Paul Buff, who is a bit of a maverick and very successful

 

[kalibre]

The Bowens results seem quite good, the Alien Bees are about what I would expect. I feel that they demonstrate the importance of consistent colour temperature.

AB's are incredibly popular in The States and with good reason - they brought basic studio lighting within reach of people who wouldn't otherwise have used it and although some of their own accessories may not be very good, they use the Balcar accessory fitting, which means that there's a good range of high quality accessories available.

Like Interfit in this country, they tend to sell to newcomers who recommend them on forums (perhaps they wouldn't if they had experience of other makes) and have a loyal, almost passionate customer base that they maybe don't deserve. Good luck to them, and to their owner Paul Buff, who is a bit of a maverick and very successful

Don't mean to snigger but you should have been a politician Garry. There's no hiding your feelings for Interfit...lol

I'm sure if we could play with kit from all manufacturers then I doubt Interfit would be near the top of anyone's list, however if your only a budding amateur and simply don't have £500+ to spend on a twin/triple head kit then I don't see any other brand being an option.

Light, no matter how bad has got to be better than no light.......

 

[mortm]

Findings on the Lastolite F400

My test also revealed that the
F400 heads produce a slightly
larger colour temperature shift,
and a warmer reading than the
stated 5300–5600K range, as
both the heads in the F400 review
kit measured from 4700K
to 5200K (on min and max output).
Overall, these discrepancies
aren’t enough to dent what is a
very respectable performance.
The slave unit was very reliable
in a studio setting and the power
and quality of light are comparable
with some of the established,
budget fl ash lighting brands.

This is however 1 - 1/32, but still 500k

Interfit on their INTERFIT PRO 1000 WATT claim a 100K shift

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I had much better experience with Genesis 400 than with otherwise excellent Alien Bees in terms of WB inconsistency

I looked at buying some calumet lights but when the manager of my local store discovered I would be using them in a professional capacity he cautioned me that they were not for professional use and using them in such a situation might invalidate the warranty. The ABs are the only manufacturer which advertise "bang-bang-bang shooting" & "heavy all-day shooting conditions" & "most demanding professional use" and that's the main reason I bought them.

As with all subjects it's easy to get anal about what's right and what's not right. Bangs for buck the AB heads are pretty good value, the digibee kits are less so when you take shipping, handling and VAT into consideration. I just bought the heads and sourced the stands etc locally. They are very lightweight and consequently easy to transport (and they've paid for them selves several times over already) but I wouldn't evanaglise about them, they are just lights. I guess I ought to change my avatar now ?

A few k difference, as pointed out in the Digital Photo extract, isn't of major concern for 99% of people. Doing a grey card will be sufficient in most cases. If you need 100% accuracy don't buy el-cheapo lights, whatever the brand & if a client demands 100% colour fidelity, sub the job out to Garry Edwards

 

[mortm]

You forgot to mention they do the ABs in pink. Got to be a consideration factor in my book

 

[Garry Edwards]

You forgot to mention they do the ABs in pink. Got to be a consideration factor in my book

Probably to match Paul Buff's hair - he's very much into art deco

More seriously, AB make good products for the price, although the colour shift is about as bad as it gets

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Probably to match Paul Buff's hair - he's very much into art deco

More seriously, AB make good products for the price, although the colour shift is about as bad as it gets

"The colour shift is about as bad as it gets" ?

As good as someone is with the physics I can't take such a statement seriously.

The light from a flash head comes from the flash tube and not the gubbins inside the head yes ?

If you've tested every Paul C Buff tube and have averaged out the data to back up your assertion that all tubes are equally bad, I'd like to see it.

Seriously, I'm not having a dig, I'd really like to know.

 

[Garry Edwards]

The physics can get complicated and there are various factors at play, including operating voltage, circuit design, the design of the flash tube, the capicitor arrangement and even the UV coating on the flash tube.
Forgetting the UV coating for a moment, the other factors affect the flash duration. The flash duration affects the colour temperature (profoundly). This doesn't much matter in itself as long as the flash duration is constant, but it hardly ever is, and the Alien Bee lights have a very short flash duration at full power and a very long one at the other end of the scale. Because of this, the colour temperature changes rapidly and dramatically as power is reduced, with the effect that many people consider them to be unusable at anything less than 1/4 power.

Nearly all monoblock heads are affected to some extent, the more expensive makes are usually affected less than the cheaper ones but it's probably true to say that very few lights can produce acceptable colour temperature at less than 1/16th power

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

As I understand it, using lights in the middle of their output range is the best course of action anyway ? i.e if you need to use a
(x) powered light on full power to correctly light a subject it's better to use a higher power light on a lower power setting.

Also, if you want to keep the power setting at, say, 1/2, what's the optimum distance from the subject for the flash ?
What I'm trying to ascertain is how far forward/backwards would you have to move the light in order to keep the
power output within an acceptable colour temp range ?

Finally, can you recommend some decent lights which come in at a reasonable price point which do have great colour fidelity ?

 

[goatee]

I'm sure if we could play with kit from all manufacturers then I doubt Interfit would be near the top of anyone's list, however if your only a budding amateur and simply don't have £500+ to spend on a twin/triple head kit then I don't see any other brand being an option.

To be honest, I used top end Elinchrom gear in my last job (where I had free access to a fully stocked pro studio for one of the big national newspapers), and for what I do, the Interfits are just fine - I'd be really interested to try the Stable Imaging kit as well, as I think it would also do the job.

Actually, what I do miss, is having loads of space, and a massive octabox with boom.

 

[Garry Edwards]

As I understand it, using lights in the middle of their output range is the best course of action anyway ? i.e if you need to use a
(x) powered light on full power to correctly light a subject it's better to use a higher power light on a lower power setting.

Also, if you want to keep the power setting at, say, 1/2, what's the optimum distance from the subject for the flash ?
What I'm trying to ascertain is how far forward/backwards would you have to move the light in order to keep the
power output within an acceptable colour temp range ?

Finally, can you recommend some decent lights which come in at a reasonable price point which do have great colour fidelity ?

In an ideal world, just don't use the lowest power settings (unless you're using Bron lights in which case it doesn't matter) because the problems of inconsistent power, inconsistent colour temperature and low colour temperature tend to rear their ugly heads when the lights have too great a range of adjustment and are used at low settings which IMO shouldn't be available to you.

My guess is that the manufacturers know that their lights don't perform at the lowest power settings but add in the 'benefit' of extra adjustment just to impress with their specs.

You should never, ever, adjust the distance of a light to control its effective power - that's what the power adjustment is for. If there isn't enough power adjustment then of course you use neutral density gels to reduce the power.

Adjusting the distance also changes the effect of the light - move it closer and the light becomes larger and therefore softer, move it further and it becomes smaller and harsher, with more clearly defined shadow transfer edges. Lighting is about shaping and controlling the light, not about its brightness.

As for recommendations, I can only repeat what I've said in other threads - September is the month in which manufacturers tend to announce new models, so I strongly advise you to keep your hands in your pockets for a week or 2 and see what becomes available.

 

[mortm]

This might answer something that has been baffling me, On all three of my Stable Imaging lights even though the markings on the power knob go from full to 1/8 I can turn the knob below 1/8 and get 1/16, so why didn't they mark them that way

Maybe it's because they can't guarantee consistency, although mine seem fairly consistent. Or more likely 1/16 on a 180W is a bit of a joke. Beats my first thought that they were saving on ink to keep the price down

Going back to an earlier point about comments on kit that haven't been through rigorous testing. It's all we can do. All the kit mentioned serves people well and I'm sure people are happy. My main reason to going on about colour temperatures etc was to ascertain how the Stable Imaging kit I have compares to others with these regards. Assumptions can be made and are often all we have, such as 'colour temperature is often very inconsistent' (Garry :nono I was in a position to be able to test this and share my findings. Then it became a debate as to what would be acceptable for the lower priced kits and so I went off on my mission and I think the conclusion at least for me is that 200-300K is to be expected and doesn't have that much of a noticeable effect to the people buying this kit. I can now rest happy knowing that my Stable Imaging kit gives a consistent power output with a respectable and consistent colour shift for a budget kit of 150k from full to 1/8 or 200k from full to the suprise 1/16 .... no assumptions necessary (well apart from my testing ability).

When it comes to this budget kit question which is often asked I think this thread has been one of the better ones. We need to get people with various kits to test to the best of their ability and share such information, then we can make more informed judgements of what we are after which will differ from buyer to buyer. In the snippet from one of the magazines I posted they say they don't do temp tests on budget kit, why not? In my surfing I have found comments about some cheaper kits giving a 1000k shift, now this you would want to know.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Assumptions can be made and are often all we have, such as 'colour temperature is often very inconsistent' (Garry :nono In the snippet from one of the magazines I posted they say they don't do temp tests on budget kit, why not? In my surfing I have found comments about some cheaper kits giving a 1000k shift, now this you would want to know.

In theory, I have the means to test equipment (I have the studio facilities and I have the testing equipment) but I don't have the kit to test, unless manufacturers ask (pay) me to test it for them, which some have done but most haven't.

So, I tend to reply to forum posts based on what I've heard from other professionals who have tested various bits of kit, in other words the information is often second hand and has often been passed to me in confidence. Because of this, and because I don't want to be sued by the manufactuers I tend to avoid giving actual figures

Of course the various magazines don't publish figures on colour temp inconsistencies - why would they want to upset the advertisers who pay their wages? Magazines make their money from advertising revenue, not from magazine sales and they support their advertisers every way they can. Their 'Independant reviews' are usually part of an advertising deal, so if you want impartial advice don't take too much notice of magazines - buy my Photolearn tutorials!

 

[mortm]

Trouble with your tutorials is they make you dig into your purse. After reading your free intro to portrait I ended up buying a grey muslin backdrop. Hopefully £33 well spent

 

[Carlsbad]

"The colour shift is about as bad as it gets" ?

As good as someone is with the physics I can't take such a statement seriously.
LOL, what grades you were getting for physics ?
Check this:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=565628

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

LOL, what grades you were getting for physics ?
Check this:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=565628

"So I am in enviable position to compare Genesis 400 and AB800 side by side. I do not have a color meter or even an exposure meter so the comparison is solely based on my unscientific experience with both units."

Methodology is questionable to say the least. I'll cover the reasons I bought the bees here:

Pros:
1. Very fast recycling. I have never missed a shot although I have a nasty habit of firing up a series of shots even in a studio setting
2. Cheap to maintain, has good warranty and customer service reputation
3. Power slider is maybe less precise but is easy and fast to use, even when the light is mounted high on a light stand
4. Nice cubic design that potentially fit into many cases and does not take much space
5. Very light

Cons:
1. A notoriously misleading unit name, that tries to present the light higher than they are.

Only to people who don't know what they are buying into, ignore effective w/s and you're ok.

2. Inconsistent color when dialing down. Even at 1/16 the images require color correction in post processing, which might be a hassle.
You do not want to use a grey card every time you change the light settings.

I don't mind. Takes seconds & much easier to do than PP

And using two lights at too different power might be impossible.

Might do, haven't done it, doesn't matter for me.

3. Flimsy build(still unlikely to break at normal use.)

Feel lighter than they should, a lot lighter that the calumets. For me that's a bonus.
I know someone who's been using 4 bees on the road for 5 years and has never broken one.

4. Weak modeling light. As corected this is not entirely tue

5. Dead end units, meaning that If ever you want to grow you have little choice of using the same brand.

eh ? No idea what that's about. the AB 1600s are too powerful for most situations, the 400s are ok, the 800s are sufficient for most uses
although given the unsatisfactory colour temp results I've seen, if colour fidelity was of utmost importance I'd either buy another brand or hire a studio for the job.

The pros for the genesis lights are all good, it was the cons (and the not for pro use warning) that put me off:

Cons:
1. [U]Recycle time is noticeably longer[/U]. After I switched from AB a missed a few shots before I learned to wait for the light, which I never had to do with AB. But it might be my shooting style, which I am eager to change.

Which would dramatically reduce throughput in some situations. I went for fast recycle times.

2. Heavier and larger than AB units. I managed to squeeze three lights into a medium size suitcase.

Who wants to lug them around ? Not me.

When you've got studio lights & a spares kit, extension leads, surge protectors, reflectors, lighting stands, background stands
and a massive camera bag and you have to carry all that in and out of places on a daily basis, you will welcome any
reduction in weight, volume or increase in portability. I've seen photographers using a sack truck for their studio lights, for example !

Most lights I've seen follow a similar format and look very samey, almost identical from the outside. I think that throwing away the perceived 'tube with a blub on the end' shape was a good thing.

3. Flash duration is 1/250, which however rarely is a problem. Unlike Photogenic Studio Max III where the flash duration is 1/125 the Genesis units do not underutilize most popular cameras. You will start feeling it only with the most expensive cameras such as Canon 1D, which have synch speed of 1/500.

Higher sync speed is good.

4. When dialing down the unit discharges the extra power by emitting a flash, which is annoying. The AB on the other hand discharges the extra power not using the light tube.

After the 1000th flash of the day, anything which makes for fewer flahes is good !

Papa carlo reaches the same conclusion as I did: "Just choose what is more important to you"

I did: Lightweight, compact, easy to transport, very reliable, very short recycle times, great customer service, and you can get them in
a bright alien green casing which really really annoys other photographers with their more serious (read proper) always black,
always metal, always heavyweight lights which usually develop a small problem on day 2

As always, do your homework, buy what works for you.