where to start dabbling in film?

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puggie

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I've bought a DSLR (Canon 20D) and started playing, but due to lack of funds and desire for stuff, I've bought a few older manual Pentax M42 lenses and adapters. I'm now looking into 'how cheap could I play with film' so after some advice. I have a few M42 primes and canon EF nifty fifty and 28-105mm zoom. What body would be a good starter for film, thinking cheapy cheap like a budgie?? I guess I'm looking at Canon EOS if I want to use my canon lenses, but would I be better just sticking with the M42 stuff and an older body? I'm only wanting to do B&W stuff for starters, so what bodies would you suggest on a budget? there are a few Zenits in my local oxfam, my growing MF collection is mainly Asahi Pentax stuff (so could go for a spotmatic) any suggestions :)
 
Get a Spotmatic, if their looked after well then they will usually work fine as theres very little to go wrong with them. The best model to get would be a Spotmatic F, their a bit more expensive than the original or the model II but the open aperture metering is well worth it, however it only works with SMC Takumar lenses which are seriously worth it, they still hold their own today. Non SMC Takumar lenses can be used using normal stop down metering.

If you get one to see if you need a new battery, set the ISO to 100 (lift and turn the shutter speed wheel) and set the shutter speed to 'B'. Look in the viewfinder, if the meter needle on the right remains at the top, the batteries fine. If not you need a replacement battery, this one here is the best as its the same voltage etc as the old banned mercury type.

http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_mrb625.htm
 
Thanks for the reply,

can you explain this open aperture metering for numpty here? I'm assuming it allows me to meter with the aperture wide open before taking a shot at a pre-set aperture. Is this something to do with the little push pin on the lens mount?

what would I lose in features going from a spotmatic F down to say a 500 or 1000?


EDIT: It appears my lenses are not the SMC ones, some are coated but all are the older auto aperture type and will my work with the open aperture metering. So how does that affect my potential body purchase, would I do as well with an earlier body than the spotmatic F?
 
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The little push pin is present on virtually all M42 lenses. Basically a little 'kicker' stops the iris down with this when the shutter is triggered, allowing you to focus wide open with a nice bright image. The open apperture metering basically allows you to focus and meter with the iris wide open as SMC Takumar lenses have a special aperture sensing lug that tells the camera what aperture the lens is set to. If their not SMC Takumars they don't work with this feature, unfortunately the M42 mount was so old at the time that no one else bothered releasing lenses with this feature either apart from Tamron who have a an adaptall 2 mount that works with it, called the ESII (For the Pentax ESII, basically a slightly improved electronic version of the F with aperture priority, but the mount works with the F and ES as well)

I would not bother with the 500 as it only has a top speed of 1/500 (well there is an unmarked 1/1000 that is not calibrated and according to dome reports is more like 1/750), theres no built in flash mount so you have to buy a Perntax flash mount and it lacks a self timer.

I would basically get an F for the open aperture metering, theres not much difference between it and a Spotmatic II apart from that (it uses a different battery type to the one I linked to). However it is definitely a feature worth having as SMC Takumar lenses are excellent performers and as I said can still hold their own even today. 55mm f1.8 versions are usually not too expensive on ebay and 28 and 35mm f3.5 versions can usually be got from ebay or camera collector shops for around £40. Basically, anything below 28mm or above 200mm or the 135mm f2.5 or the 35mm f2 will be expensive as their a bit rarer.The 50mm f1.4 can be quite expensive as well as its very sought after. Most non specialist lenses inbetween are usually a bit more reasonable.
 
I use my M42 lenses on my EOS 10 that I paid £25 for but you would have to factor in the cost of an adapter,unless you go down the Zenith Praktica route you could probably pick ip an EOS (1000,100,650) for less than a decent M42 body
 
Well I have a decent 50mm f1.4 multi coat (not SMC with sensing lug though) and tidy 35mm f3.5 (really like that one on my canon 20D, iris blades need a clean though, they are a touch slow). I've been looking for a sensibly prices 85mm, but I don't think they exist. I'm looking for this as a 'fun' camera for mainly doing B&W stuff and play with film (and probably developing), I don;t want to invest much into it and it won;t be used in anger for any serious photography. I'm thinking of getting a more basic spotmatic lack of flash doesn't bothet me and if I get serious I'd upgrade to a decent F.

this caught my eye but its only an SP2, the ding doesn't bother me if it stays cheap...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pentax-Spotmatic-SP2-/300454002274?pt=UK_Photography_Film_Cameras_ET

what sort of prices do the SP2 and Fs go for?


EDIT: CaptPenguin, I already have M42>EOS adapters as I'm using the M42 lenses on a Canon 20D, I just fancy playing with film.
 
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F's tend to be more expensive, from £60 - £110 depending on their condition. SPII's are a bit cheaper.

That one looks fine, but one thing I would be wary of is that he says its not been used for a few years. With mechanical cameras like them, the faster shutter speeds can become inaccurate when the shutter is not fired for a while so if you get it you might have to factor in the cost of servicing if theres a problem. Asahi Photo do a very good job for about £50 on Spotmatic if you get it and find a problem (your may be cheaper as thats a quote for an F which is a bit more complex). Unfortunately you won't really be able to tell until you've run some film through it and check the results, preferably using slide film as the lab can't correct it. With colour negative film though you shouldn;t have any problems due to their increased lattitude so I would get that camera.

http://www.asahiphoto.co.uk/

I was lucky with my F, the original owner who had brought it in 1973 had only recently stopped using it and had had it serviced 2 years before. The camera literally looked like it came straight out the box apart from some minor scratches around the tripod mount and pentaprism. Plus it came with a very nice SMC Takumar 55mm f1.8, several filters, a long cable release, the original instructions and accessory book and a load of out of date film. And all that for just £60! I couldn't believe my luck.

Try getting a Tamron Adaptall 2 90mm macro lens, it may be a macro but what says you have to focus closely? Their supposed to be quite nice, but be mindful that the adapter for M42 could cost more than the lens in the end! (If you don't know Adaptall 2 lenses can be used with practically any camera as they by default come with no actual mount, you buy the relative one for your camera and fix it on, allowing you to use on pretty much anything you've got)
 
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Thanks for the advice, I'm going to trawl the charity shops first and see what I find, there seems to be a ew on fleabay as a back up play, I won't have chance to play for about 3 weeks so may as well go stalking for a cheap F.
 
puggie said:
I've bought a DSLR (Canon 20D) and started playing, but due to lack of funds and desire for stuff, I've bought a few older manual Pentax M42 lenses and adapters. I'm now looking into 'how cheap could I play with film' so after some advice. I have a few M42 primes and canon EF nifty fifty and 28-105mm zoom. What body would be a good starter for film, thinking cheapy cheap like a budgie?? I guess I'm looking at Canon EOS if I want to use my canon lenses, but would I be better just sticking with the M42 stuff and an older body? I'm only wanting to do B&W stuff for starters, so what bodies would you suggest on a budget? there are a few Zenits in my local oxfam, my growing MF collection is mainly Asahi Pentax stuff (so could go for a spotmatic) any suggestions :)
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For people who want to try film....Believe me, you can equal/get near results from expensive DSLRs and expensive film cameras for £5-£10, how? Go to boot sales etc (even the bay) and pickup a Praktica MTL3 with Helios 44m or Meyer or Tessar 50mm standard lens.
My choice is the M42 Meyer 50mm f1.8 Oreston, so what next? well put some Fuji superia 200asa colour film in, take your shots and get it developed and scanned to CD at Tesco (£3)....so for a total outlay of about £16 you have the potential for quality 10"X12" prints and to see if you enjoy a film camera.
 
What he said ^^^
 
I have that camera lying around and never stuck a film through it :)

An equally useful alternative is to buy one of the less trendy models of a camera in your companies line up so if you have a Nikon for example go and buy a Nikon EM, F601 or something like that. They are often maybe £25 with a 50mm f1.8 manual lens. You can nick that lens to play with on your current camera and and full frame lenses you have can also go on the film camera.

Definitely the Tescos tip is useful, that is what I do also. If you ask them nicely they may even scan them at a higher resolution than normal for you :)
 
cowasaki said:
I have that camera lying around and never stuck a film through it :)

An equally useful alternative is to buy one of the less trendy models of a camera in your companies line up so if you have a Nikon for example go and buy a Nikon EM, F601 or something like that. They are often maybe £25 with a 50mm f1.8 manual lens. You can nick that lens to play with on your current camera and and full frame lenses you have can also go on the film camera.

Definitely the Tescos tip is useful, that is what I do also. If you ask them nicely they may even scan them at a higher resolution than normal for you :)
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I did look at the Canon EOS Film range as I have the 20D, a couple of thinks leaned me towards the Pentax:

I actually have more pentax M42 glass than Canon despite it currently all being used on the 20D

The Pentax looks like a proper SLR camera, the canons are a bit plasticy and modern looking (I have the 20D for that)

I had read about some issues with the EF lenses on the older film cameras somewhere, probably required more research into that one, I'm guessing it may be a none issue really.


I'm now getting impatient, off on holiday at the end of the week so I'm guessing it won't turn up til I'm back.
 
If you want nice prime lenses with wide apertures, no makes or mounts will be cheap unless you hit lucky. However some attract more buyers - like Nikon - which ups the price whereas Miranda, Exacta and others tend to have limited UK appeal but made very nice lenses.
Canon FD are a good compromise, being made in enough numbers and sufficient quality to be reasonable and attractive. The best deals are often in kit form, i.e. someone wants to sell a body or two, flash, converters, bags and so on and there'll be some nice lenses in the mix. People are put off because they don't need half the junk and ignore the diamonds. Wide primes sold alone rarely go cheaply.

There was a time when M42 screw mount glass went for less than bayonet but generally speaking a F1.2 50mm, or a F1.8/1.4 35mm or 85mm will be comparable whether screw or bayonet. There are a lot of beaten up lenses growing their own mushroom farm out there, I'd pay a premium for condition and look after it.
 
TheBigYin said:
:bat:Stop pointing people at FD kit, I haven't got all the bit's I want yet!!!!:lol:
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But I didn't mention the downside, the infamous Canon cough, bane of the A-series. Actually, almost every manufacturer has its Achilles Heel, whether it be price, lack of interchangability or sheer old age. For instance I recently picked up three near mint Minolta bodies for £17 posted! Hunting down a decent prime to fit was another matter :thumbsdown:

Anyway, I haven't finished collecting my Canon bottles either!
 
The one slight problem that the Spotmatic F has is that some M42 lenses will not mount properly as the open aperture metering pin in the body gets in the way. For instance I can't mount my Helios 44-M on mine, which is a great shame as its a really sharp lens.

Conversely though I can't mount my 55mm f1.8 SMC Takumar on my Zenit EM either. Try getting at least one SMC Takumar for that as it deserves them.
 
Popped into LCE in town at lunch because I now need film :) so bought a single roll of Ilford HP5 Plus 400 to run through it when it arrives...

and accidentally bought a virtually mint SMC Takumar 135mm f3.5, with hood, both endcaps and skylight filter all genuine Asahi Pentax bits. £30 :)

Really would like to change my Super Tak 50mm 1.4 for a SMC one now. it has the coatings just not the open aperture metering bits on it.
 
The SMC coating is very different to the Super Tak version, Super Takumar's are only single coated with somewhat inferior coating. The SMC Takumars were the first lenses to ever have multi-coating, it was an Asahi Pentax innovation, all the other manufacturers actually had to pay royalties on the patents for years so to allow them to multicoat their lenses using Asahi's process. You can tell as they are different colours when light is reflected in them.

However some later Super-Takumars were SMC coated but not branded as such and usually don't have as many layers of coating or on all the elements. This was so that they could capitalise on SMC Takumar's being 'better' when really they were almost the same and so they could test the experimental coating. But thats only on quite late versions so I doubt that you've got one as theres no real way of telling apart from reflecting the light on them.

Check ebay frequently, those SMC Taks can go for a fortune or very cheaply.
 
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If I reflect light on the 50 I get a definite layers of purple/red, yellow/amber and green. I still want to swap it for the later auto aperture featured one though.
 
Well you'll be looking at quite a sum of cash then. Three are currently listed on ebay and 2 of them are around the £90 mark and ending soon. I think I'll be sticking with my 55mm f1.8 for quite a while longer.
 
Well I have a Spotmatic F here, arrived this morning and I'm aiming to get my first roll of film into tescos on the way home from work :) Found a battery that fits (well enough to work) and have the 50mm f1.4 and 35mm f3.5 with me. May have to detour home via the cathedral to finish off the film :)

it does feel nice and proper though :)

I might also have bought an ESII with the SMC 50mm f1.4 I wanted :nuts:
 
Hi,
I'm new here I found the thread via google. I have bought several ESIIs' (to get one that is working properly) recently as I used one regularly in the 70's, and had brilliant results with it. Also bought a SMC 55mm f1.8 when I screw in the lens the auto manual lever will not work, although when I press it down with my finger before attaching it to the camera it moves freely. Is this a fault or is ut part of the open aperture system please?
 
pauli said:
Hi,
I'm new here I found the thread via google. I have bought several ESIIs' (to get one that is working properly) recently as I used one regularly in the 70's, and had brilliant results with it. Also bought a SMC 55mm f1.8 when I screw in the lens the auto manual lever will not work, although when I press it down with my finger before attaching it to the camera it moves freely. Is this a fault or is ut part of the open aperture system please?
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The Spotmatic F, Electro-Spotmatic, ES and ESII all have a little pin that doesn't allow the SMC lenses to move the switch between Auto and Manual when they are mounted on the camera, if you want to stop down the lens then push down the depth of field preview lever on the camera (the little black sliding bit of plastic by the side of the lens mount with a down arrow marked on it)
 
If you've got canon EF lenses, check out old Canon EOS film cameras.

A canon EOS 5000 for example can be had for around £10 on ebay!

sure, it's not great, and pretty cheaply made, but in general, for £10 it's perfect. comes with enough settings to have a play around with too.

Alternatively, a canon EOS 30 can be had up to around £50

there's a lot of models inbetween too!
 
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