Where do I legaly stand!
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King_Boru
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Its on public grounds so as far as I think they cant tell you not to take photos. Someone on here has the UK Photographers Right PDF form worth printing and keeping to hand.
This is all getting a little bit rediculous. Paranoid 'pros' worrying about amateurs taking pictures better than theirs.
This is all getting a little bit rediculous. Paranoid 'pros' worrying about amateurs taking pictures better than theirs.
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its found here http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php
Sounds a bit over the top only allowing the pro on the edge or in the water, but not sure where you stand as the beach isnt exactly public (even though we have access it isnt a right) as all beaches are privately owned by either the crown/NT or private land owners. (May be wrong but this was on Coast a little while ago
)
Sounds a bit over the top only allowing the pro on the edge or in the water, but not sure where you stand as the beach isnt exactly public (even though we have access it isnt a right) as all beaches are privately owned by either the crown/NT or private land owners. (May be wrong but this was on Coast a little while ago
)
Irritable_Rabbit
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Mmm. 
I wouldn't fight this one if I was you.
I mean, are you a pro with accreditation? Will it cost you to stay away from the water's edge to take pictures?
Although I agree that a beach is in essence seen as a public place, but I can see safety problems that are unique to sports like this. At a race track they don't let you trackside without accreditation and insurance. At the beach they cannot keep you behind crash barriers as such so are left with the only option to ask you to help them, the competitors and the marshals by keeping a reasonably safe distance away.
If a few spectators/amateur togs get injured they are going to find it very difficult to get insurance to run events like this. Grief! Our local Carnival has problems with insurance and that's not exactly high risk! :bang:
Of course this kite surfing malarky could be safer than cuddling cuddly teddy bears in which case I'll be quiet and you go ahead and get your waders and waterproof camera covers!
*Thanks for confirming the beach rights Mr IanC, which sheds a different light on the situation.
I wouldn't fight this one if I was you.
I mean, are you a pro with accreditation? Will it cost you to stay away from the water's edge to take pictures?
Although I agree that a beach is in essence seen as a public place, but I can see safety problems that are unique to sports like this. At a race track they don't let you trackside without accreditation and insurance. At the beach they cannot keep you behind crash barriers as such so are left with the only option to ask you to help them, the competitors and the marshals by keeping a reasonably safe distance away.
If a few spectators/amateur togs get injured they are going to find it very difficult to get insurance to run events like this. Grief! Our local Carnival has problems with insurance and that's not exactly high risk! :bang:
Of course this kite surfing malarky could be safer than cuddling cuddly teddy bears in which case I'll be quiet and you go ahead and get your waders and waterproof camera covers!
*Thanks for confirming the beach rights Mr IanC, which sheds a different light on the situation.
Lufbrarunner
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Where do I legaly stand!
According to the BKSA, behind the line of the judging vehicle
According to the BKSA, behind the line of the judging vehicle
Jonnyreb
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Unless the organisers own the beach they cannot stop you standing where you please. Doing so would constitute a breach of civil liberty and blocking your way would be either assault or, at its most severe, false imprisonment :rules: . Do your homework and find out who owns the land and if its private or NT ask permission in advance to take photographs on the day in question. If its crown you have the same tight of access as anyone on the day.
Kick some
Kick some
Liberalis
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Unless the organisers own the beach they cannot stop you standing where you please. Doing so would constitute a breach of civil liberty and blocking your way would be either assault or, at its most severe, false imprisonment :rules: . Do your homework and find out who owns the land and if its private or NT ask permission in advance to take photographs on the day in question. If its crown you have the same tight of access as anyone on the day.
Kick some
How-ever, the people running the event can just stop the race/games using your H&S as excuse.
Irritable_Rabbit
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Most likely spot on, and then you'll be the most popular photographer on the beach for sure. Loved by competitors, spectators, marshalls and the local press........
Pass the lynch mob somebody.
Jonnyreb
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Very true - and the flip side is that they may want an unobstructed view for the judges - except for their tog of course.
I don't see anything wrong here. If you're a professional with public liability insurance then you'd be covered. If not and something happened there could be an issue. They would have had to jump through hoops to get permission to have this on the beach and they'd to be covered in case of injuring someone so the photographer would have to be too. Its not one of those "omg but its public " things I'm sure its insurance related.
Irritable_Rabbit
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Good grief, I HATE agreeing with you Pete. I might have to change my point of view in a minute, and my original post up above.
OP
malla1962
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I have no problems with safety issues and do not even intend geting in or even at the waters edge.The thing that gets right up my nose is there photographer is the only one who can go beyond the judges station,whats safe for me has to be safe for him.I would be happy at maybe 50yards from the water,on the day it will be a very small tide and there will be quite a distance between the water and the judges station and rekon I would need a 600mm lens with a 1.4 extender lol.
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What does that mean, with regards to Ian's post above?
Can they get permission from the crown to 'take over' the beach?
The reason I ask is partly due to Southport Air Show. Basically forcing people to pay to go on the beach. Gits.
mrgubby
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Under the Health & Safety at Work Act you must record 'Significant' Risks to your emloyees / public etc if you employ 5 or more people , if they say you are at 'Risk' at the waters edge ask to see the Risk Assessment they Legaly must have completed
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I am going to the BKSA national chapionships next week here in my home town,the event will be held on a public beach.I have had this form sent to me and not happy about rule number 2:rules: what do you guys think
The whole thing has just gone completely mad! :bang:
Just curious as to why Pro Togs need £2 million P/L insurance are cameras really that dangerous? :shrug: Still I guess a Bigma round t' ear'ole may do a little damage or a poke in the eye from and extending lens might be an issue
Sorry but these issues are fair game to have the urine extracted as far as I am concerned
Irritable_Rabbit
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It's probably to cover the event organisers liability. It's all about insurance nowadays without which the event wouldn't take place! :bang:
And then everyone can take pictures of something that isn't happening.
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And then everyone can take pictures of something that isn't happening.
PMSL
That would be sooo funny if it wasn't a real possibillity :rules:
Yeah but he'll be covered by insurance and everything. He's their photographer. I really doubt its anything other than liability and insurance issues. Its all a case of "What if?" and if something happened you're not covered by them.
The whole thing has just gone completely mad! :bang:
Just curious as to why Pro Togs need £2 million P/L insurance are cameras really that dangerous? :shrug: Still I guess a Bigma round t' ear'ole may do a little damage or a poke in the eye from and extending lens might be an issue
Sorry but these issues are fair game to have the urine extracted as far as I am concerned
You're not allowed trackside at race days unless you have it. Its not just in case you bonk someone on the head with a 50mm
Irritable_Rabbit
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Let's say I wandered onto the track, caused a rider to swerve and career into a tree/obstacle and he was permanently injured, that's why you have P/L.
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:rules: Exactly. Its basically H&S, they have to abide by the risk assessment in order to be covered themselves insurance wise. Dont blame the organisers, blame a litigious society. Although in fairness, being a frequent trackside photographer, and living with someone that used to race, tog P/L insurance is important should something happen - imagine being the driver that suddenly got your view of the next apex obscured by a tog and having a major stuffingtons as a result!
The official tog will have been chosen way in advance and either be insured and driected by them, or have his own checked paperwork.
Yes, I want the freedom to take my pictures as much as anyone else here, but common sense and some degree of safety at such events must prevail.
The official tog will have been chosen way in advance and either be insured and driected by them, or have his own checked paperwork.
Yes, I want the freedom to take my pictures as much as anyone else here, but common sense and some degree of safety at such events must prevail.
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they'll have paid to use the area and as part of that they can ask you to abide by their rules to allow them to comply with the H+S restrictions which are placed upon them by their insurance policy.
Witch
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Perhaps the Professional chap, rather than being "paranoid" has actually paid for the right to be there covering the event as it means he can get images to sell on and earn his living? I work with professional 'togs all the time at speedway - I ALWAYS check before starting where they would prefer me to work and during the course of the meeting if I change position I make sure I'm not impeding them. It's a courtesy thing - they have a living to earn, I have a day job first and foremost and my photography is a hobby.
Just my two pennorth'!
Just my two pennorth'!
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when you say "but if the official photog is allowed to stand in the water why cant i"
can you please answer me a question...
whats easier to hit? one single photog in the competitive arena (i.e all that is wet and soggy) who has experience of kite surfing and how the competitors move or 40 photographers in either a huddle or dotted along that dont have a clue where your likely to be heading as you do your thang on your board...?
can you please answer me a question...
whats easier to hit? one single photog in the competitive arena (i.e all that is wet and soggy) who has experience of kite surfing and how the competitors move or 40 photographers in either a huddle or dotted along that dont have a clue where your likely to be heading as you do your thang on your board...?
unclerichy
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Look on the bright side - now you can buy that really big lens (oh, and a step-ladder so that you can get above people's heads)
CarlOgden
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Most of this will be guess work and presumtion. BUT.....
It's a beach but they will probably corden areas off, at a guess, they don't want that many people in front of the judges SO they stop people from hugging the edge.Therefore, there is an area for officials and an area for joe public.
Also, so that images are got from that even, they may have paid for a tog to attend and provide them with shots. Therefore, he could ask for option 2. However, through experience of organising previous events (organisers not me), THEY might not want loads of photographers in front of the judges hense clause 2.
What could also happen is that a pro tog has either won a contract or paid or been asked to be the official and wants the best advantage, regardless of their ability. Therefore, they want the cream. Why shouldn't they have this?
PLI for 2mil is pretty standard, I've got 3mil. No, you don't have to be a pro to get PLI but you do get trackside having it.
For Cadwell and that sort of circuit, you've got to have 5mil cover, therefore, you have to payout something like £150 per year on your PLI cover.
Oh and with the 70-200 I get way to close to the circuit and am always getting moaned at off the marshalls. Glad I've now got the 300, keeps me further away from danger.
Carl.
It's a beach but they will probably corden areas off, at a guess, they don't want that many people in front of the judges SO they stop people from hugging the edge.Therefore, there is an area for officials and an area for joe public.
Also, so that images are got from that even, they may have paid for a tog to attend and provide them with shots. Therefore, he could ask for option 2. However, through experience of organising previous events (organisers not me), THEY might not want loads of photographers in front of the judges hense clause 2.
What could also happen is that a pro tog has either won a contract or paid or been asked to be the official and wants the best advantage, regardless of their ability. Therefore, they want the cream. Why shouldn't they have this?
PLI for 2mil is pretty standard, I've got 3mil. No, you don't have to be a pro to get PLI but you do get trackside having it.
For Cadwell and that sort of circuit, you've got to have 5mil cover, therefore, you have to payout something like £150 per year on your PLI cover.
Oh and with the 70-200 I get way to close to the circuit and am always getting moaned at off the marshalls. Glad I've now got the 300, keeps me further away from danger.
Carl.
I would assume the council 'own' the beach at that location. The organisers will have had to lease it from them for a (huge) fee.
I was involved in the UK Windsurfing Champs many years ago (a mate was sha**ing one of the event organisers, so we got free access) and they had to comply with loads of H&S stuff even then.
In order for them to run the event, all ar$es will have been covered and there will be private security on-hand to enforce what is in the end another H&S issue.
If you get whalloped by a giant kite on the head it could kill you.
If you really want to photograph this event, get accredited, or get a longer lens. Hire it or buy it.
I was involved in the UK Windsurfing Champs many years ago (a mate was sha**ing one of the event organisers, so we got free access) and they had to comply with loads of H&S stuff even then.
In order for them to run the event, all ar$es will have been covered and there will be private security on-hand to enforce what is in the end another H&S issue.
If you get whalloped by a giant kite on the head it could kill you.
If you really want to photograph this event, get accredited, or get a longer lens. Hire it or buy it.