When you don't like a photo

dazzajl

dazzajl

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Darren
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This is something that was milling around my head yesterday. I only ever realy comment on pics here that I like. If someone has asked for thoughs or critique, I'll probably also say why I like it and perhaps how I might change it.

Sometimes I'll just say I like it and it seems that other people pretty much do the same as me choosing what they comment on.

So, it's OK to say "I like a shot" with no explanation and people are happy enough to have these posts in their threads.

But...... what if you don't like a shot. Would it also be Ok just to post and say "I don't like it"?

Like and dislike are surely just two sides of the same coin so why do we all stick to this unspoken rule of "nice" comments only.

I'm not saying we should all go around saying how much we hate peoples work. I'm just musing on this group behaviour and wondering how I'd feel/what I'd get from it, if folks were as comfy to say they don't like my shots.
 
I only comment on shots that I really like
I don't comment on shouts I dont like, but only because I don't think I have enough experience to point out if a shot is technically wrong!

And if someone say they did not like my shot I wouldn't be offended. :bat::lol:

Hope that makes sense??

Spence
 
I dont comment on everything I look at. That'd take all day and I've a job to do :( .
Usually I post on thinks I like, but then I've reputation for saying what I see. Some people dont like it, and on occasion I've been pullued up short for being out of order, so I appologize.
I do however try to be constructive (yeah I know ... :coat:)
 
I'd say if somone has asked for critique, and you don't like it then just should say so. But, say it properly, don't say "that's sh*t I don't like it", explain why you don't like etc. Although to be fair if you think something is truely vile maybe it is best to stay silent.
 
If I think something's not right about a shot I'm commenting on I'll say so but I'll always try to expand on it a bit and say why, I try to be as honest as possible about it but not offensive. Certain images I will just pass by, HDR for example which does nothing for me at all, or flower/animal shots in general, I'd rather not comment on those because while I may not like them it doesn't mean they are bad shots.
 
I agree, you can't comment on it all, or even just all the shots you like. There are simply too many.

Put briefly, no-one minds when I just type "I like that". Would people be just as happy if I was to say, "I don't like that"?
 
Of course you should say so if you don't like any image, especilly if the user has asked for a critique - and of course it goes without saying that you should use your wisdom/experience/tact/diplomacy when so doing.

Nobody likes being insulted, but I'd say we are all here to learn from each others experience and expertise. Anything that helps is good yeah?

The only other thing to bear in mind is that much of the elements of an image are subjective. Note: I appreciate there is a technical and therefore objective element to photographs and images, I appreciate that. However, one persons food is another persons poison yeah? What one person likes, another won't - so don't be too offended or put off if someone doesn't like your images because someone else will :)

How's that?
 
I'm by no means experienced enough to give in-depth critique. But I will say that I like a picture and why, and I may also say if it's a bit dark or too bright in parts.
I only really comment on the aesthetics though, what appeals/does not appeal to me as a viewer.
 
Ok..... but you're all sliding around the crux of the issue.

Nobody has ever minded a post saying a shot is liked but with no reason given for why. So it follows that it should also be OK to post saying you don't like shot, with no reason given.

I wouldn't do this but why......?

Surely if it's ok to write one opinion without reason, then it should be ok for any other opinion too.

Discuss........ :D
 
oldgit said:
I dont comment on everything I look at. That'd take all day and I've a job to do :( .
Usually I post on thinks I like, but then I've reputation for saying what I see. Some people dont like it, and on occasion I've been pullued up short for being out of order, so I appologize.
I do however try to be constructive (yeah I know ... :coat:)
Click to expand...

I have to say, I do like your style of CC. Short, sharp and to the point. As you say, some people can take offence to this style, but personally I like to hear it how it is, as long as you can expand on a point if required. But your getting too soft in my threads, wheres the criticism? :p
 
I have a personal rule that if I'm going to comment on a shot I will always qualify my comments. ie I won't just say "good shot", I'll explain why I feel it's a good shot and vice versa. If I see a shot has technical flaws (imo of course) then I will point them out politely and in a constructive manner. I believe that is why people post their work here, to hear comment, good or bad and have errors pointed out, otherwise how can we improve?

I don't think you have to have a certain level of experience to give critique to a photo, in depth or otherwise. A lot of what makes a photo good or bad is in the eye of the beholder and none of us should be afraid to say "I don't like that because......". My 9 year old son will often tell me a photo is good or bad and often he will have a valid point lol!
 
Messiah Khan said:
I have to say, I do like your style of CC. Short, sharp and to the point. As you say, some people can take offence to this style, but personally I like to hear it how it is, as long as you can expand on a point if required. But your getting too soft in my threads, wheres the criticism? :p
Click to expand...

Thanks.

As to the crit's post up something that's bol**x or that I think I could do better and I'll say so. Your stuff is generally too good. Bahh.
 
I don't see why you'd need a reason. If you're saying it's good, you're saying, well done, you made it with this one. If you're saying there's something wrong with it, you're saying this is what you need to do to make it such that I'd like it.

The fact you like it and don't have anything wrong with it implies it's a good all-round photo usually. You don't need to say 'I like it because the composition is good, the lighting is spot-on and the little dog looks really nice'.
 
Is it the thread or just your dislike for brevity? :razz:
:lol:

edit to say that was aimed at ratty. I dont know you well enough to insult you ian......yet. ;)
 
Personally I think the feedback is key to how you improve as a tog. There are a variety of ways to comment on a shot none of which should be stopped, in fact all should be encouraged and I think it's something that TP could really make themselves stand out from the competition if they get it right.

Positive Praise - No comment - Seems to generally accepted. Personally I woudl liek to see a positive comment also justified
Negative opinion - No Comment (Not keen on this photo without a reason will always have the tog wondering why; was it a personal thing with the shot, was it technically flawed or did I just not like it. Difficult not to provide a comment in this situation.
Positive Praise - Comment - Always works -Could be a technical comment or just a reason for the thumbs up
Negative Opinion - Comment - Should always be taken constructively by the tog, who may decide to agree/disagree, that's why photography is so opinionated because whilst a shot may be technically perfect - it may not sit well with an individual beucase it conjures up some memories.

I do believe we should start thinking about adding some rules for posting shots, maybe a flickr style approach to some of the group ideas ...One Photo equals one comment or such like - Just my opinion :)
 
There is the alternative though.

You can simply state that the subject is no good.
Or just demote the thread to a lesser forum!

Seems to work.
 
Interesting thread.

If I am commenting on someone's work, I don't feel I can say 'I don't like it' without giving a reason why, yet I will happily say that I like a shot without quantifying why I like it. Maybe I will start doing this now :)
 
mm, (and others) I suspect it's the human nature of not wanting to offend someone. Or the recipients sensitivity to adverse comments.
So to praise is OK as it pleases, whereas to be negative is probably going to dis-please (generally).

Although if someone asks me a question they always get the honest answer. If that offends them they shouldn't have asked the question.
If I ask a question I want the honest answer not someone being nice to me.

Not many folk are genuinely like that though even if they do state they they won't be offended they often are.

sorry for the lack of braver..... brevity, Daz
 
A few have suggested that they do not feel qualified to comment on images. If the poster has asked for comments then I do not see the harm in anyone commenting (experienced or not).

How do you know if you are more or less experienced? Does it matter......I think not. I prefer the comments from the 'man on the street' rather than the so called 'pros' because it is the man on the street who purchases and reflects the vast majority of opinions.

Everyone likes praise....it's human nature. However, constant praise does not help. How can you improve without pointers in the right direction?

I have often thought that it would be nice to have a set of points to cover when giving an in-depth critique...sort of a proforma.

Comments such as "I like it" are great to receive but don't always help you to improve. Qualifying comments are important. I am guilty of not always doing it myself!

Interesting thread because......
 
Ratty, you're absolutely right. I don't think I suggested anything different and totally agree with you.

All I suggested is that one uses ones experience when delivering the scathing critique ;) we don't want to offend people eh:)
 
This may be longer than I hope. Sorry.:thinking:

I'm sitting in a pub with a 'togmate' and I show him/her my latest creation on a 6x4..

We know each other quite well and this has been a regular occurrence in both directions. Get the picture?

During the following discussion others in the room would hear 'grunts, coughs, a little laughter, hu huhs, I see,and me buying the round - again!

I would see my friend hold the image carefully up to the daylight from the window, study it for some time whilst giving the occasional nod or frown.

He then asks one or two (or more questions) to which I try and give honest answers even if they make me feel a little uncomfortable.:gag:

I then get what I asked for.:cuckoo:

Which is a considered, careful and honest opinion (critique) knowing that as much care has gone into that opinion as went into the photograph (well not quite as much - but you get the drift).

On the 'web' without one question, without any knowledge of the viewer (or very little), without the comfort of physical communication and in a lot of cases without being able to restrict my request for an opinion in some way I can be almost 'hit' with some quite blunt/short comments that can and are hurtful, destructive and occasionally offensive often so quickly that it is obvious how little time has been spent looking !.

Luckily for me this type of comment rarely appears on 'TP',:thumbs:, only occasionally annoys the hell out of me, and is often treated with contempt.:bat:

If someone takes the time and care over their comments and criticises the image, backing up their critique with eg's or tech. notes then I read with care and am grateful for their time. I appreciate them far more than I do a quick 'like it' and go (not sure thats a good thing to say).:thinking:

Personally I have a thin skin :suspect: and have had probs. in the past with this very thing. So I can see the dangers of " I don't like it'.

So finally heres my point..

If you cannot say 'something positive 'tis best to say nothing at all'

Until you learn how !!:thumbs:
 
Well, i don't get time to comment on every single image i see, if i see one i like that needs improving i say so, if i see one that's truly awful i will also say so, although i never say "that's really crap" i will often say its a good effort but if you did this or that and maybe that as well it would improve the image. If i dont like an image of can see it needs something else i will always try and spend the time to explain what i think is wrong with it.

I tend not to say much more than nice shot or whatever if i cant add anything to the image, ie if i see no way i could improve it. Otherwise i would live on here 24 hours a day 7 days a week, we all have to limit our comments sometimes due to life getting in the way.

As has been said if nobody tells you its not right you will never improve because you don't think you need to !

I'm no pro and never feel really qualified to get into the technical aspect of a shot, i just try to pass on my feelings on the image.

At the end of the day that's all we can do, a bit of diplomacy goes a long way, and hopefully is appreciated. You can see the improvement in peoples images over a period of months there's nothing more satisfying than that :)
 
I'm still confused. If I like a photo, by default there's nothing wrong with it. It therefore follows that I like everything about it.

QED.
 
If you cannot say 'something positive 'tis best to say nothing at all'
Click to expand...

It always anuses me to see that phrase being used.
Mostly because it is utterly pointless.

No-one ever improved anything/anyone by silence.

If people ask for an opinion then they should be prepared for it.

If you like a picture then it is good.
Even if technically poor if it pleases the taker then that's what matters.
So subjectively opinions are just that.
If, however , the question being asked is abotu it's technical attributes then that's a whole different thing.

For example...
If I post a pic that I like then it means it's a good picture... because it pleases me in some way. That's enough.
If I ask for C&C on it then it is for the technical stuff so that I can improve on the technique etc... and make the next pic even better from that aspect.
That can still be subjective with all this PP going on but not so much.
But then we get into composition. That can be commented on but is still very much a personal thing rather than 'right or wrong'.

It's still nice to think that pic can be liked by others as well but that won't improve my skills, only being told what I'm doing wrong can achieve that.
And all those comments that are "That's great but....."
Who coined the phrase that any sentence containing a 'but' can be ignored before that 'but' because what you need to know follows it.

Liking and disliking are, as said, two sides of the same coin but we (generally) only ever need to justify one side of it.

I'm just rambling now as I forgot about a lens I was bidding on and missed it while typing.:bang:
 
Its all so bloody subjective anyway, what does it matter?

Really, people should be able to accept the fact that their image is not to everybodies taste without needing to commit some sort of ritual suicide because they've transgressed the bounds of decency and posted a dog (not literaly, obviously)

I don't expect everybody to like my work, and nor should they. If that's so then I also don't expect people to justify it.

However If people turn up and spurt out 'It's carp' then that's entirely different k of f. You are then making a quality judgement and without some of that flowery rhetoric to back up your sweeping generalisation, you'd better hope I don't find out where you live, cos the semantics police will be round to see you very shortly.


I find this more and more in life. People are happy to dismiss something they don't like as being rubbish without actually examining why they don't like it or not having the maturity and insight to say 'I don't like it but it's good nonetheless'


There is a difference people! 'I dislike' is subjective and needs no further explanation. 'It's rubbish' is objective and needs backing up so you don't sound like a ****.



Go read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle maintenance' anybody who doesn't understand this basic difference.



Grrrrrrr.













(btw driving in Bristol makes me very angry!)
 
Ratty said:
No-one ever improved anything/anyone by silence.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with your whole post. On another forum I'm on everyone's patronising, and the most rubbish, blurry no-excuse-top-of-persons-head-cropped-off ***** gets the reply 'Nice photo mate!' and it's lame. Then when someone is told it's abit over/under-exposed, etc, they get 'Oh, fine. I don't slate your work blah blah'.

The thing I like about this forum is people will say if something's wrong with a photo, and that way the photographer can improve their ability (or go off crying if they so wish).

Possibly going off-topic, but I just wanted to say all that anyway. Still don't see it's necessary to give a reason for a photo actually being good, although if one particular feature stands out then it may warrant a special comment.
 
"That's great but....."

How about.

That is the worst example of photographic technique I have ever seen but despite that the dreamy quality that the camera shake has created somehow keeps it in the worth having box.:thumbs:
 
I hate the fact most forums are really overly positive about shots that quite obviously are subpar. TP is good because if you have a crap shot people will actually tell you that its crap and give you tips on how to improve the shot.

Sure you'll get the odd person will throw the rattle out of the pram when suddenly their shots arnt being hailed as the greatest thing ever anymore like they are on other sites but the loss of them is only minor compared to the amount of people who will respect the better critisim.
 
First off, on a forum even half the size of this one, it would be impossible to comment on every picture, so I often find myself clicking on the ones that have titles that appeal to me. Often I will look and go back later and comment, after maybe a second or third look. I will try and post a comment on threads that have been there for a while with no comments at all, but you dont always see all of them. When I do comment, I try and say why I think what I do about the image, especially if its a critism of some sort and try to do it positively. I don't know if I succeed, I just hope I do. By the same token, i have no objection to people liking or disliking my work, as has already been said, photography is subjective. ;)
 
When a shot is good it is usually obviously good. I'll sometimes leave it at an unqualified 'good shot' comment for one of those.

Then there is this big grey area in the middle where the shot is good but not great, average etc. Those I'll try and say something constructive.

At the bottom of the pile are the bad pictures. If I think it is bad I will say so and give reasons. Some people might take exception and disbelieve all comments (Photomad?) but usually it is well taken.

As said earlier in the thread you don't know the poster most of the time and you don't know the intent or the ability - so even though you may be misinterpreting the shot you can only say what you see.

I'm no expert. My comments are just general experience and personal opinions. Comments are really valued by the posters - so any comment is better than none. The amount of comment has improved a little but I still wish more people would comment whatever their experience level.

As to what I skip over - black and white! 95% of monos I don't like... 5% I do. A lot of mono shots posted just look like they were made mono 'because I can'. I can't see past the mono to see the picture so I move along.
 
Talking about life in generally rather than photography, I would say, "I like you" to someone I liked. I would not walk up to someone and say, "I don't like you" and leave it at that. There's be no point, and it would be mean.

Now, if I said, "I don't like you because you are rude and arrogant," well, that would actually serve a purpose. That gives the person some information to consider.

Simply put, I don't believe compliments have to be explained. I do think negative statements need to be explained.

- CJ
 
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