Whats a professional photographer?

You would need to be in business as a photographer... thats it..

ADDYONBIT: I meant what Daryl said below.. I didn't mean you needed to own a business.. :)
 
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Anyone who earns their living, or a significant part of it, as a photographer I suppose? I had a look at the list and it does seem pretty arbitrary/random.
 
I guess its someone who takes shots like this:

the-professionals-image-3-863959860.jpg


:D
 
So what if you are at a profesional level but don't make any money from it???
What if the image above where shot for free, to get a foot in the door etc???

Or and this is my strongest reservation, we have all seen these photographers, (Not a great photographer but gets paid, because people don't know any better) is this person a pro photographer???

For me a Pro Photographer describes a level of knowledge and skill within the area photography, not just anyone who can make a buck because they have a clever sales pitch. I would also expect this person/s to be professional (have a basic level of customer service and not be rude, impatient etc).... Mark.



Having a camera makes you no more a photographer than having a hammer and some nails makes you a carpenter....
 
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The term professional means its your profession. So its nothing to do with skill level.

Also, the above photo is of Cowley, Bodie and Doyle from the series The Professionals. T'was a joke (and a good one at that :p)

Paul
 
MADDOGHARPER said:
So what if you are at a profesional level but don't make any money from it???
What if the image above where shot for free, to get a foot in the door etc???

Or and this is my strongest reservation, we have all seen these photographers, (Not a great photographer but gets paid, because people don't know any better) is this person a pro photographer???

For me a Pro Photographer describes a level of knowledge and skill within the area photography, not just anyone who can make a buck because they have a clever sales pitch. I would also expect this person/s to be professional (have a basic level of customer service and not be rude, impatient etc).... Mark.
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The concept of 'Professional' is really very simple and basic- it's about how someone earns their living, not about the standard of their work or competency. If they are tonk then market forces will soon push them out of business.

In short, Daryl nailed it.
 
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MADDOGHARPER said:
So what if you are at a profesional level but don't make any money from it???
What if the image above where shot for free, to get a foot in the door etc???

Or and this is my strongest reservation, we have all seen these photographers, (Not a great photographer but gets paid, because people don't know any better) is this person a pro photographer???

For me a Pro Photographer describes a level of knowledge and skill within the area photography, not just anyone who can make a buck because they have a clever sales pitch. I would also expect this person/s to be professional (have a basic level of customer service and not be rude, impatient etc).... Mark.





Having a camera makes you no more a photographer than having a hammer and some nails makes you a carpenter....
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You are right but if you make your living from knocking in nails good or bad you are proffesional.

There will always be people who are better than someone making money from it but they will never be pro unless they start to charge for their services

spike
 
MADDOGHARPER said:
So what if you are at a profesional level but don't make any money from it???
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then your a very good amatuer

MADDOGHARPER said:
What if the image above where shot for free, to get a foot in the door etc???
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then your considered naughty by most pro photogrpahers..

MADDOGHARPER said:
Or and this is my strongest reservation, we have all seen these photographers, (Not a great photographer but gets paid, because people don't know any better) is this person a pro photographer???
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if they are getting paid they are pro

MADDOGHARPER said:
For me a Pro Photographer describes a level of knowledge
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thats for you.. not the industry on the whole..

MADDOGHARPER said:
Having a camera makes you no more a photographer than having a hammer and some nails makes you a carpenter....
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agreed.. dont see your point or what it has to do with this but agree... we have a guitar in the house.. you really wouldnt want to hear me play it:)
 
As an ex pro all I can say,don't bother getting photographer put on your passport,you might not always be welcome as you think in some countries :)
 
paulf1990 said:
The term professional means its your profession. So its nothing to do with skill level.

Paul
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I fully agree there is no link between the term "professional" and the skill level or even the quality of the product.

Daryl said:
You make your living from Photography. That's it.

If you make your main living from driving a bus and do 15 weddings a year on the side. You are a bus Driver.

Nothing else to it.
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No you are a bus driver and a part time professional. I don't see any requirement for it to be your main source of income. If you can be a part-time GP or a part time teacher you can be a part time photographer. Its just title which suggests you provide a service in exchange for money.
 
Most professions require years of study and experience to demonstrate a degree of competence. I'm an engineer by profession, and am registered with the Engineering Conuncil as achartered engineer. This took years to achieve, and it's similar in other professions such as legal, finance, etc. The fact that you can set yourself up as a photographer, a trade in which there is no governing body with no set pathway to becoming recognised as being competent, makes it a bit odd (IMO) that it's recognised as a profession by HM passport office.
 
You don't need any qualifications to be a Director of a Limited company either
(also on the list)

its all a bit ambiguous.

Ta for comments though, I'm no clearer :-)
 
Professional photographer is a meaning less title, with no real credibility or extra worth, like the majority of job titles. As previously stated no qualification or registration is required, it is purely descriptive.
 
In this context, that is there so that when you get a passport photo taken by a photographer, they can sign it to verify that it is you straight away, no fuss. Same as getting your accountant next door neighbour to sign the passport photo when you send it off.
 
Kaolin said:
Professional photographer is a meaning less title, with no real credibility or extra worth.
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sorry but tosh..:)

If your selling your service to business.. do you think they will look at profesional photographers listed as professionals.. or will they look in the amatuer section? it doesnt matter if other photogrpahers know its not worth saying it... but to customers? of course its worth and has value..
 
KIPAX said:
sorry but tosh..:)

If your selling your service to business.. do you think they will look at profesional photographers listed as professionals.. or will they look in the amatuer section? it doesnt matter if other photogrpahers know its not worth saying it... but to customers? of course its worth and has value..
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But any moron :naughty: can get themselves listed as a professional, as quoted above there is no professional body to police who is/isnt a pro.

i have not seen a pro tog and an amatuer tog section in the yellow pages:thinking:
 
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Dervish99 said:
But any moron :naughty: can get themselves listed as a professional, as quoted above there is no professional body to police who is/isnt a pro.
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I AGREE

I do not agree that there is no value to the title because there is... customers will look at a photographer listed as professional not amatuer.. especialy business customers.. the fact that they arn't clued up about the situation is there downfall...

I list myself as professional.. I have enough confidence in what I do to know I can ..However I am still learning and I still aspire to other photogrpahers I know are better than me..

But thats not whats its about.. its not about who is best or who acts more pro.. its about who gets the work :) and listing yourself as a Pro has more meaning to customers than listing yourself as anything else..
 
KIPAX said:
sorry but tosh..:)

If your selling your service to business.. do you think they will look at profesional photographers listed as professionals.. or will they look in the amatuer section? it doesnt matter if other photogrpahers know its not worth saying it... but to customers? of course its worth and has value..
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I don't see how it can have any value "professional photographers" is a meaningless title. The only value comes from the quality of the product provided and the experience of the interaction with the photographer. It is equally valid whether delivered by a "professional" or weekend warrior. Either the customer is happier or not.
 
In the modern world of the internet, most consumers would consider anyone offering paid for services as being "in business" aka "professional".

I think thats where the hang up is on this subject every time.

The term used should be "commercial photographer" - ie someone engaged in paid for work in the field of photography.

Its certainly the term used when describing the type of activity prohibited in many locations...
 
Kaolin said:
I don't see how it can have any value "professional photographers" is a meaningless title.
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Well I have to sell my services to other companies.. I seek out work and I advertise myself to them... I call myself a professional photogrpaher when i describe me and my services.... if i described myself as anything less then it would have less value..its a selling point if you will..

Look at it from that viewpoint :)


Kaolin said:
The only value comes from the quality of the product provided and the experience of the interaction with the photographer. It is equally valid whether delivered by a "professional" or weekend warrior. Either the customer is happier or not.
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I agree... but you gave a blanket NO VALUE .. I agree wiht your views as listed..unfortunatly your view is blinkered and your not seeing that others may have a value to the title.. I give you good reasons why it has a value to me... yet still you say it has no value...

Open your mind :)
 
desantnik said:
In the modern world of the internet, most consumers would consider anyone offering paid for services as being "in business" aka "professional".

I think thats where the hang up is on this subject every time.

The term used should be "commercial photographer" - ie someone engaged in paid for work in the field of photography.

Its certainly the term used when describing the type of activity prohibited in many locations...
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I think that is a much more accurate description of what we are talking about.:thumbs:
 
KIPAX said:
I agree... but you gave a blanket NO VALUE .. I agree wiht your views as listed..unfortunatly your view is blinkered and your not seeing that others may have a value to the title.. I give you good reasons why it has a value to me... yet still you say it has no value...

Open your mind :)
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I will agree to disagree, I do think I am blinkered maybe cynical but it does not make me wrong.

Dervish99 said:
I think that is a much more accurate description of what we are talking about.:thumbs:
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I think commercial photographer is a much more accurate title, with a defined meaning.
 
Kaolin said:
I will agree to disagree, I do think I am blinkered maybe cynical but it does not make me wrong.
.
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I dont think your wrong and I agree wiht what you say.. I just think you need to widen your view...its a big world :)
 
desantnik said:
The term used should be "commercial photographer" - ie someone engaged in paid for work in the field of photography.
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if I contact an organisation who are putting on a big football festival and I want to be the official photogrpaher... i tell them who i am and what I do.. I use the term "professional photographer".... I dont think "commercial photogrpaher" would work the same.... maybe I am just not used to the term but it looks like i photogrpah buildings not sport :)
 
I might expect a professional photographer to have some form of "professional liabilty indemity insurance" so should something go horribly wrong there would be a level of finacial redress for the client.
Whereas few amateurs would/could justify the cost/need for such insurance.
 
If I had no knowledge of the photography industry, I'd probably assume that a 'commercial photographer' only works for corporate and business clients. 'Professional photographer' seems to cover a wider range. It still implies someone who does this for a living, and should be able to deliver good results. It would be up to me - as a client - to confirm if they are able to meet my expectations.
 
MartynK said:
If I had no knowledge of the photography industry, I'd probably assume that a 'commercial photographer' only works for corporate and business clients.
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What other sorts of clients do businesses have other than business ones? A client is the recipient in a business transaction - they engage you to provide goods/service.

"Personal clients" is probably something only dens of ill repute have :naughty:
 
KIPAX said:
if I contact an organisation who are putting on a big football festival and I want to be the official photogrpaher... i tell them who i am and what I do.. I use the term "professional photographer".... I dont think "commercial photogrpaher" would work the same.... maybe I am just not used to the term but it looks like i photogrpah buildings not sport :)
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Well, in your and my world there's actually another category "media photographer" who is someone gathering images for news reporting.

And in fact is not the same as "commercial photographer" who's aim is to create retail sales from his work (or derivatives thereof) and is specifically (in motorsports circles) not someone granted "media access".

"media" doesn't mean "professional" neccessarily. Few are staff togs in anything other than in F1/MotoGP - probably the same in football I'd imagine.
 
If being a photographer is your profession, or one of your prefessions, with profession meaning 'a vocation founded upon training, with the purpose of providing a service compensated by others', then you are technically a 'Professional Photographer' be this full time, part time or once in a blue moon.
 
desantnik said:
What other sorts of clients do businesses have other than business ones? A client is the recipient in a business transaction - they engage you to provide goods/service.
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Business in the sense of corporate, as opposed to individual, but I'm sure you knew what I meant.
 
Wow, you guys really ran with this one.
So if someone asks if your a professional photographer but you don't charge for charge for although you produce professional results what are you???

If you google Professional you will get this answer;

A professional is a person who is paid to undertake a specialised set of tasks and to complete them for a fee.

I can't help wonder about the specialised bit.... M.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
In this context, that is there so that when you get a passport photo taken by a photographer, they can sign it to verify that it is you straight away, no fuss. Same as getting your accountant next door neighbour to sign the passport photo when you send it off.
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yes but the signature has to come from somone that "knows" you.

I dont think a photographer taking the picture on a one off basis, could sign as knowing you for 'x' years.


Back to the original Q then, What evidence could I use to qualify a photographer? perhaps there is'nt any?
Maybe I'll call the passport office for clarity, its certainly an interesting one.
 
MADDOGHARPER said:
So if someone asks if your a professional photographer but you don't charge for charge for although you produce professional results what are you???
.
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you asked the same question earlier in the thread and it was answered in post #11
 
Vass said:
Back to the original Q then, What evidence could I use to qualify a photographer? perhaps there is'nt any?
Maybe I'll call the passport office for clarity, its certainly an interesting one.
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I doubt if the Passport Office will have an answer for you. It's just not that important. The occupations on the list are just given as examples, and a lot of them don't require any qualifications at all.
 
I think why it's still on the list for passports,come from the old days when most town & city,had a small local photographer shop in the high street,which was know by everybody,and that person took most of the local photos wedding etc,and was well know in the community,and was seen as a reputable person :)
 
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simonblue said:
I think why it's still on the list for passports,come from the old days..
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Let me update that for you:

from current day ...is known to the police,and that person takes mostly illegal photos of public buildings and children in the park etc,and is well known by the pitch fork and burning torch waving community,and is seen as a child molester
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:lol::lol:
 
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