What would you do..

stevelmx5

stevelmx5

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Ok, having got 35mm out of my system again I'm moving back to 120 format with a limited budget. I've come across two different options, both with some issues although neither should be a major problem to resolve.

Option 1 - Mamiya M645J - Boxed with oriiginal strap, 120 insert and 80mm 2.8

The issue with this is that the 80mm lens has oil on the aperture blades so is not stopping down properly. I had the same issue with the Kiev 88 I had and stripping the lens down to clean/re-fit the blades was relatively painless. Looking online it appears that the Mamiya lens is similar construction. Other than that, the rest of the kit looks pretty much mint and will come with a 6 month guarantee (for body only).

Option 2 - Bronica S2 (appears to be an S2A from the serial number), 120 back, 75mm 2.8 Nikkor lens

This kit is in worse condition visually and will need new leatherette covering all over. The body itself appears to be in reasonable condition and the seller has stated that the shutter sounds correct. The other issue is that there is no darkslide so that will have to be factored in and until I had one I couldn't get the back off to check internal condition etc.


My head is telling me that, of the two, I would have much less pain from the Mamiya. Worst case it would need a new lens which are relatively cheap whereas the S2 could have problems internally and the poor covering suggests less than careful use (although that could mean it's been in pro use and serviced I guess).

Just thought I'd guage people's opinions. I've shot both 6x4.5 and 6x6 and am happy with either and I've seen various online reports of the less than subtle mirror slap on the Bronica but as this would be a predominantly landscape setup that's not a major issue.

All thoughts appreciated :0)

Cheers
Steve
 
Personally I'd go with the Mam. I looked at getting an S2 recently but from the research I did it appears that they can have some serious problems and given their age these can be difficult and expensive to correct. They do however look bl*ody brilliant.
The Mamiya does seem to be very highly thought of and the lenses are top notch.

Andy
 
Must admit my only experience is with my Mam RB67 if the 645 stuff is similar then I would be happy.

I am looking in the future at a 645 and the Mam is on my list to.
 
Well Steve I'd wait until you can get some gear that has been look after....anyway what's the rush it's a horrible time of the year to shoot landscapes (well for some of the UK :eek:).
 
excalibur2 said:
Well Steve I'd wait until you can get some gear that has been look after....anyway what's the rush it's a horrible time of the year to shoot landscapes (well for some of the UK :eek:).
Click to expand...

I would second that !
 
What would I do? More like what did I do?

This!
stevelmx5 said:
Option 2 - Bronica S2 (appears to be an S2A from the serial number), 120 back, 75mm 2.8 Nikkor lens
Click to expand...

Try to find one in good condition though.


Steve.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. The reason for picking something up now rather than waiting is that the cash I have from selling existing kit has a habit of going to use elsewhere if I sit on it so I'm keen to pick up the kit now. With regards to weather, if you're not getting wet you're just not committed ;0)

@Andysnap - It's the looks of the S2 that's making me consider a visually tired looking version with the intention to restore it. However, the fairly regular comments regarding reliability are an issue. It's one thing having a nice shiny camera but if the gears inside are seized then it becomes an attractive paperweight!

The idea of repairing the oily blades on the Mamiya is actually quite appealing. Always good to get inside the kit and make sure everything is smooth and free so that doesn't really worry me. As above, worst case is the blades are beyond repair but additional lenses aren't hard to come by.

Cheers again guys, I think my head is ruling my heart and swaying towards the Mamiya.

Steve
 
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The tricky bit is making them stay there whilst you put it all back together!


Steve.
 
Definitely :0) I can see where an octopus would come in handy but it's an achievement when you get them to stay in place and they carry on working after you're re-assembled the lens!

Steve
 
stevelmx5 said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. The reason for picking something up now rather than waiting is that the cash I have from selling existing kit has a habit of going to use elsewhere if I sit on it so I'm keen to pick up the kit now. With regards to weather, if you're not getting wet you're just not committed ;0) Steve
Click to expand...

Graveyards look nice this time of the year and great for B\W ;)
 
If limited budget means that you simply won't be able to pick up anything in better condition then i'd go for the Mamiya as you have the skills to strip down and rebuild the lens.

Ideally, hold back from buying either and see if you can't increase your budget a little more ( perhaps over several months), then pick up something that is complete and in decent nick.
 
Sorry Asha/Excalibur, I didn't get notifications for your replies. Not sure about graveyards but I'm definitely heading to the coastline!

The budget is pretty fixed at the moment after christmas etc and relying on selling my 35mm kit to fund it. I might look to use it for a few months once the lens is repaired and then sell it on and add cash to it for a different model.

I also seem to have just bought the Mamiya ;0) I should have it Monday/Tuesday so if it's in as good condition as it looks I'll be shooting with it by the end of the week.

Cheers for everyone's suggestions
Steve
 
Steve Smith said:
Sometimes the fingers clicking the buttons on your mouse seem to have a mind of their own!


Steve.
Click to expand...

Yes, I find that sometimes my computer buys things for me when I have been to the pub, at least thats how it appears as I have no recollection of clicking anything...

Looks to be in very nice condition Steve.
 
lol, so true about the pub purchases...not that I'm drunk at 11am! :0)

Apparently it's already got a brand new battery too so I can try it out as soon as it arrives (at F2.8 anyway!)
 
looks nice that im looking at mamiya 645 in a short whil.
I fancy the 645 pro but its pricey.

nice one perhaps a write up :-)
 
No problem, I'll put a quick review up once it arrives. I've used a Mamiya Pro before and it feels considerably newer than most of the film kit I use normally! It was a nice camera but I killed two rolls by not feeding it onto the spool properly without realising (my fault, not the camera). That put me off it a bit so I shot with the Kowa six I had at the same time instead.

Steve
 
I quite enjoyed the Mamiya 645 I borrowed, but felt the need for exchangeable backs.... which I believe the Pro does have. It would be interesting to hear your feelings comparing the two!
 
I did think about waiting for a Pro but as far as I can see (without trying the M645) the only major difference is the exchangeable backs and I don't shoot enough of a mix of film/B&W to find that a problem (yet!). I'll probably be shooting mainly B&W Acros 100 with with 645 so I can develop and scan it myself.

This is an example of the Mamiya Pro looking 'slightly' more imposing than my NEX!


Mamiya 645 Pro vs Sony Nex-5! by Steve Lloyd, on Flickr
 
View attachment 5574

Well, it arrived and my initial thoughts are;


It's mint
It's smaller than I expected
I've already got the front element off the lens
I can't wait to get a roll of film in it

I'll put a review up once I've run a film through it. Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Cheers
Steve
 
I've just spent half an hour stripping the lens back and found the blades and retaining rings with a film of oil. I've got no acetone or lighter fluid to hand at the moment so I've just dry wiped them with some q-tips and kitchen roll followed by a rocket blower for now. Re-assembled the blades and they're stopping down as they should :0).

Currently the auto aperture setting (using the internal spring/rear lever to stop down) is a bit intermittent so I'm guessing there's still too much friction for the spring to return the blades so I'll give them another clean when I get some fluid.

Either way, the kit looks perfect elsewhere so I'll put a roll of film through it over the next week and check out the results.
 
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This is looking into the iris from the front of the lens with the black plate holding the aperture blades in place.

View attachment 5585

This is the underside of the same plate showing the aperture blades stuck to it with oil :0(

View attachment 5586

I get the feeling that somebody had tried to stop the aperture down in the auto setting and stretched the return spring due to the blades being stuck so I might need to wind it tight again.
 
Fixed it :0)

I stripped and cleaned all of the blades again with lighter fluid to make sure it was oil free but the auto setting still wasn't returning. I then removed the rear cover and spotted a rogue spring sitting by itself on the focus helix...

Cue some origami with a couple of small screwdrivers and a long pair of tweezers and it's now back in place and returning the aperture :0)

View attachment 5739

This was before I attached the other end.

I'm a happy bunny now with a mint M645J for a bargain. Now to get some New Portra loaded.

Cheers
Steve
 
Blimey. You're a real handyman Steve. Have fun with it.
 
Thanks Trevor, I don't like kit getting the better of me...and can't resist a good deal ;0)
 
Hmm, I've just been offered a Bronica S2 at a good price so will soon be able to do my own direct comparison!

As much as I would like to keep both, I think I'll be selling one of them to fund the kit but I'll put up a review of each before I do :0)

Cheers
Steve
 
stevelmx5 said:
Hmm, I've just been offered a Bronica S2 at a good price so will soon be able to do my own direct comparison!
Click to expand...

I have only had mine for a couple of months but I like it a lot.

And it's the camera used by Austin Powers so it's super cool!


Steve.
 
The S2a (going by the serial number of 159873) has just arrived and looks to be in generally good condition. The seals are a bit sticky and one side of the WLF is catching on the magnifyer when opening so just needs to be bent slightly to clear it. The only other issue I can see is that the DOF button is sticking slightly but when I remove the lens/helicoid I can move it back so that looks like a result of not being used for a while so i'll keep working that.

I do have a question for the experts on here though, the lens isn't the standard Nikkor 75mm 2.8, it's a Zenza Bronica Zenzanon MC 75mm 2.8. Is this just a later/earlier version of the lens as I can't find much about it?

View attachment 6584 View attachment 6585

I'll do a full comparison review with the M645J over the weekend. Early impressions are that the Bronica is larger, heavier (probably due to the film back) and much more retro ;0)

Cheers
Steve
 
Update 1 on the S2a :0)

I've now sorted the WLF so all 3 sides popup cleanly and interlock correctly. Neither of the side pieces are catching the magnifier which is also locking into place smoothly.

The DOF preview function is also working as it should with the button returning when released so the lens remains wide open for focussing. Looks like it is just lack of use so I'll keep working it to make sure it stays free.

I've noticed that there are some marks/dirt on the underside of the ground glass but when I went to remove it I noticed one of the screws have been attempted before without success so for now I'll leave it in place. The marks don't affect the focussing particularly.

I've just taken some quick comparison pictures of this and the M645J for the review I'm putting together so I'll get that finished over the next few days. Although the Bronica is around 450g heavier than the Mamiya, it's not actually that much larger (must be the solid engineering inside!)

Cheers
Steve
 
I've posted a comparison review of these two cameras on the main thread and also listed the Bronica for sale in the classifieds having compared them side by side for my use.

Cheers
Steve
 
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