What would you do? RTA

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some nice comments in those links which will only start a flame war, so im removing the links.
 
matty said:
some nice comments in those links which will only start a flame war, so im removing the links.
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"Flame War" Aint that the truth !!

I know one thing.If that had been my Lancruiser the rider would have been a lot worse:shake:

Can we get this linked to a site in the US etc.. they got some weird folk on the net over there :lol::lol:
 
weve got enough weird folk over here, we dont need anymore.

A few facts for our tank driving viewers on other forums...

Landy is damaged on bullbar
landy is melting
road is damaged
numberplate is damaged, looks like the bike was already sliding (marks on road) and hit the landrover low down and bounced after chucking its fuel all over the landy

Ive looked hard at the full size original image, and the exif data, and cant see anything to suggest photoshopping at all, the only thing would be poor image resizing.

Perhaps something will come up in the local news or web in the next couple of days.
 
matty said:
weve got enough weird folk over here, we dont need anymore.

A few facts for our tank driving viewers on other forums...

Landy is damaged on bullbar
landy is melting
road is damaged
numberplate is damaged, looks like the bike was already sliding (marks on road) and hit the landrover low down and bounced after chucking its fuel all over the landy

Ive looked hard at the full size original image, and the exif data, and cant see anything to suggest photoshopping at all, the only thing would be poor image resizing.

Perhaps something will come up in the local news or web in the next couple of days.
Click to expand...

ok... you have the benefit of the original file and exif.

i agree that if the resizing is poor this will create a weird illusion . and thats what got me thinking.


Ok .. can we have a "Guess the Bike" ?:bonk::bonk:
 
redhand010 said:
first posted here.
I reposted herewe have" a comedian on the forum who's stock reply to any question, is "burn it"
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OK, i managed to read the links for they were removed due to the comments from some of the people.

I didn't see anyone say they were firefighters or photographers so can't comment on that.

it also appears that you haven't made any decisions yourself as every accusation you have posted on here you've basically copied and pasted from elsewhere. Also, some of the comments on there are just silly, talking about how one area is in focus and yet another isn't and how easy that is to do with photoshop. You can do that with a camera too, its called depth of field. You've got someone else talking about black edges around the fire, ermmm, nope there is on bit on the bike because the fire is behind the bodywork.

I have a brother who is an accident investigator for an insurance company, showed him this shot and he said the same as me.

Basically, there is so little damage to the front because of the impact because the bike wasn't on it's wheels when it his the landy which is what I think you are imagining.

Open the image and read this while looking at it:

The bike was going around the left hand bend from where the photographer is towards the landy. He loses control, maybe on the gravel you can see on the road and ends up sliding sideways towards the signpost. You can see a black groove in the tarmac that was probably made by the bike foot rest.

The landrover comes around the corner and the bike slides underneath and makes contact with the suspension on the landy's passneger side front. Ruptured fuel tank results in fire. The landy hits the brakes and stops where the bike is in the photo. Landy driver see's the flames and does what we all would do and reverses back away.

However it's too late as it's already on fire where the bike impacted (the passenger front wheel) and that spreads up to the engine and wing. Smoke will start to fill the cabin which is why the back door is open, either to let smoke out or perhaps there was people in the back.

There are no people around, because, lets face it, who would be stupid enough to stand next to 2 burning vehicles?

Does this make things a little clearer for you?
 
Harvey_nikon said:
OK, i managed to read the links for they were removed due to the comments from some of the people.

I didn't see anyone say they were firefighters or photographers so can't comment on that.

it also appears that you haven't made any decisions yourself as every accusation you have posted on here you've basically copied and pasted from elsewhere. Also, some of the comments on there are just silly, talking about how one area is in focus and yet another isn't and how easy that is to do with photoshop. You can do that with a camera too, its called depth of field. You've got someone else talking about black edges around the fire, ermmm, nope there is on bit on the bike because the fire is behind the bodywork.

I have a brother who is an accident investigator for an insurance company, showed him this shot and he said the same as me.

Basically, there is so little damage to the front because of the impact because the bike wasn't on it's wheels when it his the landy which is what I think you are imagining.

Open the image and read this while looking at it:

The bike was going around the left hand bend from where the photographer is towards the landy. He loses control, maybe on the gravel you can see on the road and ends up sliding sideways towards the signpost. You can see a black groove in the tarmac that was probably made by the bike foot rest.

The landrover comes around the corner and the bike slides underneath and makes contact with the suspension on the landy's passneger side front. Ruptured fuel tank results in fire. The landy hits the brakes and stops where the bike is in the photo. Landy driver see's the flames and does what we all would do and reverses back away.

However it's too late as it's already on fire where the bike impacted (the passenger front wheel) and that spreads up to the engine and wing. Smoke will start to fill the cabin which is why the back door is open, either to let smoke out or perhaps there was people in the back.

There are no people around, because, lets face it, who would be stupid enough to stand next to 2 burning vehicles?

Does this make things a little clearer for you?
Click to expand...

If you had turned up on page one of this thread with this info. we could have all been asleep by now :cool:

But your right, i doubt very much this was a full on mega speed accident. Poor Bloke dropped his bike at the worst possible time.
 
Harvey_nikon said:
OK, i managed to read the links for they were removed due to the comments from some of the people.

I didn't see anyone say they were firefighters or photographers so can't comment on that.

it also appears that you haven't made any decisions yourself as every accusation you have posted on here you've basically copied and pasted from elsewhere. Also, some of the comments on there are just silly, talking about how one area is in focus and yet another isn't and how easy that is to do with photoshop. You can do that with a camera too, its called depth of field. You've got someone else talking about black edges around the fire, ermmm, nope there is on bit on the bike because the fire is behind the bodywork.

I have a brother who is an accident investigator for an insurance company, showed him this shot and he said the same as me.

Basically, there is so little damage to the front because of the impact because the bike wasn't on it's wheels when it his the landy which is what I think you are imagining.

Open the image and read this while looking at it:

The bike was going around the left hand bend from where the photographer is towards the landy. He loses control, maybe on the gravel you can see on the road and ends up sliding sideways towards the signpost. You can see a black groove in the tarmac that was probably made by the bike foot rest.

The landrover comes around the corner and the bike slides underneath and makes contact with the suspension on the landy's passneger side front. Ruptured fuel tank results in fire. The landy hits the brakes and stops where the bike is in the photo. Landy driver see's the flames and does what we all would do and reverses back away.

However it's too late as it's already on fire where the bike impacted (the passenger front wheel) and that spreads up to the engine and wing. Smoke will start to fill the cabin which is why the back door is open, either to let smoke out or perhaps there was people in the back.

There are no people around, because, lets face it, who would be stupid enough to stand next to 2 burning vehicles?

Does this make things a little clearer for you?
Click to expand...

Pretty much spot on :thumbs: and my interpretation of what happened!
 
Gosh, go away for a couple of hours and all hell breaks loose :lol:

I'll stand by my comments that the photo looks odd but I'll put it down to the resizing and accept its real :eek: I hope all those involved recover.

For the record I'd like to think I'd do the right thing and help the people involved before taking photos but without being involved I'll be honest and say I don't know what I'd do! I am a first aider and supposedly have the skills but never having been in the position I don't know what I'd do.
 
MisterE said:
Is somebody else going to call him one, or is it down to me?
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redhand010 said:
Now I'm not a photographer but I do know landrovers and I know a fake photo when i see it,. The defender is apparently undamaged apart form the front wing, The grill is plastic and yet it isn't in the least bit melted?? the wreck debris is leading away from the landy.
Click to expand...

We have an admission that you're not a photographer. So you believe that anything is possible with Photoshop but in reality you don't know anything about the program and photo manipulation. Time for some education. Splog took the photo in what is known as RAW format. You cannot alter this permanently with Photoshop or any program. The original always remains untouched and any changes can be undone. From the RAW you can produce a jpg file, as you see here, which can be the end result of a Photoshop session. Splog has the truth in RAW form, and no amount of jumping up and down can change that fact. If he has the RAW file showing effectively the picture you see here, then it cannot have been Photoshopped.

As for the damage to the Defender - I have hit a car whilst travelling at around 60mph on a bike - a Norton 750 Commando. Back in the 70s when cars had steel bumpers. The only damage to the car was a dent in the bumper about the size of an egg. The bike was a write off. I walked away.

Now lets see who has the experience here. You've been on this forum a matter of minutes. No points there. You say you know Land Rovers, so that's one point to you. So do I. I've had a Discovery for years. I know a little bit about photography - decades of experience. Working with digital photos on PCs - 12 years. I've been using Photoshop for, say 8 years. Working with RAW files for 7 years. Riding motorbikes in the 750-1000cc size - 20 years. One aforementioned impact with a vehicle, and a couple of minor scrapes. Member of this forum - a bit short of 3 years. Familiarity with Splog for probably all of that time (no, not familiarity in that way). But I have no vested interest in supporting him.

So that totals up to my 9 points to your 1. Not exactly a wealth of experience on this topic for you then. Anyway Mr Redhand, I believe you have some homework to do and your clothes to get ready for school tomorrow.
 
London luke said:
well i still think that certain elements of this pic look "weird" . maybe the real file as mentioned shows a lot more detail etc ? Thats why i asked if it has been played with etc .

Not calling the OP a liar. Just confused as to why this story is not "online " anywhere ?

The press love anything where a Air Ambulance has been involved. Its a first-third page story for sure.
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redhand010 said:
Now I'm not a photographer but I do know landrovers and I know a fake photo when i see it,. The defender is apparently undamaged apart form the front wing, The grill is plastic and yet it isn't in the least bit melted?? the wreck debris is leading away from the landy. Suggesting the bike hit the back of the landrover slid underneath it and then shot backwards and hit the front of the defender & exploded. Where is the driver & other witnesses? If a bike had hit a defender with enough force to explode, the front bumper would be very very bent, and the wing (made of thin aluminum) would have been pushed back over the front wheel. nothing adds up on this one
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London luke said:
Ok.... have checked local papers to see who has a online version. Also when they publish etc. so lets see if it gets reported.

this does not make sense at all


Pm me the reg. (mate works for very large insurance comp) now the accident will be recorded and the data base will have been notified.


hey...there is b****r all on TV so bored :)
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You two seem hell bent on causing trouble for no apparent good reason and are effectively questioning the integrity of one of our members with your repeated snide accusations and inferences. Luke, just because you are bored do you think it gives you the right to make these accusations and call into question someone's honesty? If Splog were a professional photographer (he might be, I don't know) your unfounded comments could have an impact on his business and for what? Just because you've got nothing better to do? It's time to grow up sunshine.

You have no evidence to back up your claims that this has been faked and one of you admits you are not a photographer but you 'know' a fake photo when you see one. I'd love to know how, do you have extensive knowledge of Photoshop or a similar graphics programme, maybe you are an experienced accident investigator or insurance loss adjuster, or maybe it's just because 'You readz the internet'.

I say again, you are trolling and if you have nothing constructive to add I'd suggest you refrain from posting in this thread.

Finally, maybe you could apologise to Splog but I somehow think that won't be happening.
 
Hacker said:
You two seem hell bent on causing trouble for no apparent good reason and are effectively questioning the integrity of one of our members with your repeated snide accusations and inferences. Luke, just because you are bored do you think it gives you the right to make these accusations and call into question someone's honesty? If Splog were a professional photographer (he might be, I don't know) your unfounded comments could have an impact on his business and for what? Just because you've got nothing better to do? It's time to grow up sunshine.

You have no evidence to back up your claims that this has been faked and one of you admits you are not a photographer but you 'know' a fake photo when you see one. I'd love to know how, do you have extensive knowledge of Photoshop or a similar graphics programme, maybe you are an experienced accident investigator or insurance loss adjuster, or maybe it's just because 'You readz the internet'.

I say again, you are trolling and if you have nothing constructive to add I'd suggest you refrain from posting in this thread.

Finally, maybe you could apologise to Splog but I somehow think that won't be happening.
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Calm down !
Many others also thought the JPG looked "doctored" so we have a right to question it. Also the lack of anything in the media.

I said if i am wrong i will say sorry. did you not read that bit. And i dont need you to remind me . And if you dont mind there is nothing wrong with a bit of late night fun:):)

so chill out

And its been done many times by well known "faces" on forums before . Either as a test or a joke etc.
 
London luke said:
Calm down !
Many others also thought the JPG looked "doctored" so we have a right to question it. Also the lack of anything in the media.

I said if i am wrong i will say sorry. did you not read that bit. And i dont need you to remind me . And if you dont mind there is nothing wrong with a bit of late night fun:):)

so chill out

And its been done many times by well known "faces" on forums before . Either as a test or a joke etc.
Click to expand...

maybe if you listened to other people...

NOT EVERYTHING GOES INTO THE NEWS!!!!

You obviously know **** all about anything or/and are as thick as a battered Whitby cod.

especially if you read my earlier post, if the biker slid off his bike, I have had many many RTC's I have attended where the biker is un harmed, the driver from this RTC also look like he would be un harmed considering the impact zone.

why would media be bothered about that?, no more that a little car/bike fire with no injuries, not much of a jucie story.

As said a bit of late night fun could have turned out to potentially harm Splog, or anyone else who posted it who has photography as a main profession, especially if it has been crossed to other site.

fun has its limits, know your line or EDIT....'do one'
 
London luke said:
Calm down !
Many others also thought the JPG looked "doctored" so we have a right to question it. Also the lack of anything in the media.

I said if i am wrong i will say sorry. did you not read that bit. And i dont need you to remind me . And if you dont mind there is nothing wrong with a bit of late night fun:):)

so chill out

And its been done many times by well known "faces" on forums before . Either as a test or a joke etc.
Click to expand...


I'm perfectly chilled and calm thank you very much, it takes more than a couple of trolls to get me going. :) As you say others have commented on it but you don't seem to want to let it go which is why I posted what I did.

You seem to have missed the bit about how your 'late night fun' is questioning another member's integrity, I know if it was directed at me I wouldn't be so chilled and calm and I think Splog has shown remarkable restraint in the face of your unfounded allegations.
 
fracster said:
Ah well, I have resisted long enough..........:D

If bikers want to ride like clowns and treat the roads, and back roads of the Forest of Bowland, the Yorkshire Dales and the Lake district as their own personal race track,without being able to see over hedgerow, stone wall or crops, going so fast as to be unable to stay on their side of the road, then *******s to them.

I ain`t moving for them anymore, nor are the farmers with tractors.............;)
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As a daily bike rider commuting to work it's a shame you have that attitude, but these days I'm not surprised. I'm amazed at how many people deliberately aim at you when filtering, or move over to block your path and that's the drivers who bother to notice you.
These days it seems it's manoeuvre, signal, look in the mirror to see if you've upset anyone.

fracster said:
No, not all bikers are like that, not all ride outside the boundaries of their abilities, but a lot do.
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Fancy backing that up with proven statistics, or is that your own biased perception based on your statement above?
fracster said:
How many bike deaths are caused by speed rather than other interference? Be an interesting stat.
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There's two major causes of motorcycle accidents found in numerous studies, interaction with other vehicles and loss of control, usually on bends.

Off the top of my head, Mannering and Grodsky , Rutter and Quine, Hurt, all found that in interaction with other vehicle type accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcyclist’s right of way and caused the accident in two-thirds of all such accidents.

I have the excel table for 2007 figures, Total accidents for bikes were 20342, broken down into several sections. In 8900 accidents under driver error/rider reaction, 5469 were caused by other drivers failing to judge the other persons path/speed, or failing to look properly.

Out of the 20342 accidents, 1096 were judged to be caused by excessive speed by the rider.

Would you like a list of bedtime reading - I've a long list of motorbike studies/statistics?
 
Robbo said:
maybe if you listened to other people...

NOT EVERYTHING GOES INTO THE NEWS!!!!

You obviously know **** all about anything or/and are as thick as a battered Whitby cod.

especially if you read my earlier post, if the biker slid off his bike, I have had many many RTC's I have attended where the biker is un harmed, the driver from this RTC also look like he would be un harmed considering the impact zone.

why would media be bothered about that?, no more that a little car/bike fire with no injuries, not much of a jucie story.

As said a bit of late night fun could have turned out to potentially harm Splog, or anyone else who posted it who has photography as a main profession, especially if it has been crossed to other site.

fun has its limits, know your line or EDIT....'do one'
Click to expand...
blah blah blah

we are allowed to have different opinions. So lets stick to facts. He never offered the car details nor a copy of the RAW file. so that made me think it might be a wind up to see the reaction. It has been done many times before. That does not make him a liar etc .

You cannot expect everyone to just go along with a forum member. We all have a right to question if we think something is wrong.
And many did ,
so you chill out and if the man wants to fight his own corner let him..... until that time i am not so interested in your comments as you are in mine
 
Byker28i said:
As a daily bike rider commuting to work it's a shame you have that attitude, but these days I'm not surprised. I'm amazed at how many people deliberately aim at you when filtering, or move over to block your path and that's the drivers who bother to notice you.
These days it seems it's manoeuvre, signal, look in the mirror to see if you've upset anyone.



Fancy backing that up with proven statistics, or is that your own biased perception based on your statement above?


There's two major causes of motorcycle accidents found in numerous studies, interaction with other vehicles and loss of control, usually on bends.

Off the top of my head, Mannering and Grodsky , Rutter and Quine, Hurt, all found that in interaction with other vehicle type accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcyclist’s right of way and caused the accident in two-thirds of all such accidents.

I have the excel table for 2007 figures, Total accidents for bikes were 20342, broken down into several sections. In 8900 accidents under driver error/rider reaction, 5469 were caused by other drivers failing to judge the other persons path/speed, or failing to look properly.

Out of the 20342 accidents, 1096 were judged to be caused by excessive speed by the rider.

Would you like a list of bedtime reading - I've a long list of motorbike studies/statistics?
Click to expand...


I think that a few years ago when the kids all went nuts on their new Mopeds etc . Things got bad. But the average motorbike rider is a lot better than most typical drivers. I think the quality of car drivers is terrible.
One reason is far to many foreign drivers who where allowed to "swap" their licenses without ever been checked to see what standard they drove at. I can honestly say just about every Turkish driver i know is terrible and would never pass a uk test . Yet they have managed to somehow get a license. I refuse to ever get in a car been driven by any of my Turkish friends. Its the way they "think" when driving. And kids driving today seem to have this idea that when a car rolls over and hits a wall bursting into flames. They just have to press "reset" and start again.

Even couriers in LOndon seem to be far more chilled out these days. maybe its due to there been far less? But i dont get cut up as much as i use to by them

I think car drivers in the main are worse.
 
London luke said:
I think car drivers in the main are worse.
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Difficult to even qualify that statement to be honest. There's poor standards in all road users. I could give you examples of lycra clad cyclists in groups, horse riders, white van man etc. There has been a huge rise in antisocial behaviour in vehicles that people would never do if they were just walking about in a crowd. As a motorcyclist, you just have to be aware of it as the most vulnerable road user. At least once a week I'll have something thrown at me on my daily commute, apple cores, banana skins, countless fag ends, once even half a cup of coffee.

Anyhow starting to get way off thread
 
Byker28i said:
Difficult to even qualify that statement to be honest. There's poor standards in all road users. I could give you examples of lycra clad cyclists in groups, horse riders, white van man etc. There has been a huge rise in antisocial behaviour in vehicles that people would never do if they were just walking about in a crowd. As a motorcyclist, you just have to be aware of it as the most vulnerable road user. At least once a week I'll have something thrown at me on my daily commute, apple cores, banana skins, countless fag ends, once even half a cup of coffee.

Anyhow starting to get way off thread
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Swindon.... Bloody hell that "magic Roundabout" thing you have/had was a nightmare at first !
Its easy for me to qualify it. Its what i see and think. The quality of lane control in the Uk is terrible . I have lives and worked in Third world countries that have better road manners.
 
jabbermack said:
A local reporter would not have hesitated in getting that shot first.
Just take a look at the image of the UKIP MP in considerable discomfort in the overturned airplane.
It was on the TV within minutes.
You did nothing wrong.
Click to expand...
I've changed my mind.
The image is photo-shopped, therefore everything is wrong about this.
:cuckoo: I think he's looking for attention.
 
London luke said:
Swindon.... Bloody hell that "magic Roundabout" thing you have/had was a nightmare at first !
Its easy for me to qualify it. Its what i see and think. The quality of lane control in the Uk is terrible . I have lives and worked in Third world countries that have better road manners.
Click to expand...

Have. It's brilliant, works really well, much better than the Hemel Hempstead one.
Sri Lanka had a great system based on good manners and the horn. A toot to let people know you were there, a toot to let them know you were overtaking, usually in an inappropriate place, but the drivers just all backed off to make room. Worked a treat, we saw only one accident all the time we were there.
 
Byker28i said:
Have. It's brilliant, works really well, much better than the Hemel Hempstead one.
Sri Lanka had a great system based on good manners and the horn. A toot to let people know you were there, a toot to let them know you were overtaking, usually in an inappropriate place, but the drivers just all backed off to make room. Worked a treat, we saw only one accident all the time we were there.
Click to expand...

Byker

where you in Swindon when it first opened ? I was, well Marlborough. It was mental for a bit. I also have visited Sri Lanka In fact my great grand father was a very big business man there. My grand father went to school there also .
we also did not see any major accidents. I think they are a little less stressed than us !!

Did you take the train to Kandy ? thats a great trip worth doing.
 
ive removed a few posts, keep it civil or there will be people with custom login pages to look at
 
This thread has been reopened in light of a report received from Redhand. It is NOT an invitation to troll, stir things up or be otherwise objectionable. Anyone posting like that will get three days off, no discussion, no chances.
 
Report? so do we now have confirmation the event in question took place and put an end to all the nonsense? :)
 
I think we should wait for Redhand to post :)
 
dod said:
This thread has been reopened in light of a report received from Redhand. It is NOT an invitation to troll, stir things up or be otherwise objectionable. Anyone posting like that will get three days off, no discussion, no chances.
Click to expand...

Thanks for re-opening the thread :) much appreciated!
 
I go away for 48 hrs because of 'tinterweb' problems and miss all the fun - bloomin typical.

I think it's real. Mostly because I've seen lots of burning vehicles and know that smoke goes in all directions and also because sometimes damage isn't too apparent - wintness the Mastiff blown up by an IED in Afghan last October with barely any paint missing, but both rear-axles off...

Splog - you should have taken more photos: this is fine as an establishing shot, but where's the follow-up? :lol:
Could have avoided all this nonsense by doing the job properly...lol

Another reason to take more photos!!! Thus confounding all those who would say not to...
:naughty:

I'm uploading a set to my Flickr page now that shows how it should be done.
Only those who are already added as friends or family contacts will be able to view as it's not for public viewing.
We had a Mastiff over-turn during an excercise in 2007 at Hohenfels in Bavaria prior to deploying in Iraq. One soldier was killed in the accident and seven others seriously injured.
Shot about 200 images and used about 50. And yes, I got threatened by some of the other people there: blokes were telling me they'd smash my cameras, smash me etc etc etc...I had a job to do. You worry about that part later.

One of the less upsetting images from the set: yes, there is someone underneath that thing.
4598455375_aca5c86e4a.jpg
 
Arkady said:
Splog - you should have taken more photos: this is fine as an establishing shot, but where's the follow-up? :lol:
Could have avoided all this nonsense by doing the job properly...lol

Another reason to take more photos!!! Thus confounding all those who would say not to...
:naughty:
Click to expand...

Lesson learned :)
 
Redhand contacted staff providing a link which confirms Splog's version of events. He also asked if we would apologise on his behalf, hence the reason why the thread was opened. He has already apologised publically on other forums where he questioned the legitimacy of the photograph. It's not easy to admit you're wrong so fair play to him :) I suspect he also wanted to PM splog but with only 4 posts he couldn't, as I remembered when I tried to PM him :$.

Personally I think there are one or two others who also owe Splog an apology.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/home/motorcyclist-taken-to-hospital-1.705960?referrerPath=home/2.3320
 
pity the Evening Mail didn't use a picture! :(
 
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