What would you do? RTA

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I'm not first aid trained but do know enough to know not to try to move a casualty unless he/she is in immediate mortal danger, so unless he/she was in the fire, there's very little i could do to help)
Having done a 'First Bike on Scene' First Aid course - not moving them isn't always the best thing to do*.

I'd recommend everyone do some sort of general first aid course - you never know when it could help.

(*As I recall the problem with leaving motorcycle casualties means more die from asphyxiation because people think they have to leave their helmets on!)
 
snip>...........perhaps I am not a proper togger then not to get this opportunity.........<snip

you arent wrong...if a camera makes the heart hard then toss the thing away

not all people who like photography as a hobby want to be a paparazz
 
not all people who like photography as a hobby want to be a paparazz
Not all people who wield a camera do so as a hobby, nor are they paparazzi.
 
Not all people who wield a camera do so as a hobby, nor are they paparazzi.

can you mention anyone....:lol:

do you get a kick out of others misfortune:...'(

its not an attack on you old chap...:)
 
can you mention anyone....:lol:

Sure! - photography is not a hobby and I am not a paparazzi! I am a freelance who does a lot of press work but also documents the world. I don't get a kick out of others misfortune but I document it for others to see/discuss/archive.
I don't believe we should just photograph the pretty things in life - we should photograph life! And death!
 
Ive been looking at the photo, its been photoshop'd.

So far I can see 4 things that are wrong with it.
 
do you get a kick out of others misfortune:...'(

its not an attack on you old chap...:)

I know it's not, and no, I don't get a kick out of others misfortune, but why should I not make the most out a situation from a commercial or documentary aspect after the wellbeing of those involved has been secured?

Let's say you're in the business of selling widgets. And your biggest widget competitor dies. His widow decides to offer you the business for 50% of the going rate. Are you going to say no because it's heartless and you'd be getting a kick out of her or her husband's misfortune? Of course you're not.

Photography to some is no different than selling widgets to others; work is work.
 
Ive been looking at the photo, its been photoshop'd.

So far I can see 4 things that are wrong with it.

care to list? or just carpet bombing the thread before clearing off back to whence you came?
 
Ah well, I have resisted long enough..........:D

If bikers want to ride like clowns and treat the roads, and back roads of the Forest of Bowland, the Yorkshire Dales and the Lake district as their own personal race track,without being able to see over hedgerow, stone wall or crops, going so fast as to be unable to stay on their side of the road, then *******s to them.

I ain`t moving for them anymore, nor are the farmers with tractors.............;)
 
Ive been looking at the photo, its been photoshop'd.

So far I can see 4 things that are wrong with it.

Oh really, care to share your wisdom?

care to list? or just carpet bombing the thread before clearing off back to whence you came?

Nicely put :thumbs:
 
care to list? or just carpet bombing the thread before clearing off back to whence you came?



Matt... maybe the guy has a point ? I to also dont think this pic is "correct"

There is no harm at all in him questioning this. Unless its suddenly become un "PC" to question another members photograph


Also, having done a full google and yahoo search .There is NOTHING about this in the local press. Now i had a pic published by the Independent last week. It was Online within 40 mins as it was a good local story. I would imagine that papers up there also have a online edition where it would make a story.


Anyway.... I am still not convinced. Total lack of people . Unless everyone was behind the land Rover ?










did I say it was the "Enfield Independent " ? :-)
 
Ah well, I have resisted long enough..........:D

If bikers want to ride like clowns and treat the roads, and back roads of the Forest of Bowland, the Yorkshire Dales and the Lake district as their own personal race track,without being able to see over hedgerow, stone wall or crops, going so fast as to be unable to stay on their side of the road, then *******s to them.

I ain`t moving for them anymore, nor are the farmers with tractors.............;)

Not all bikers are like that mate, and alot of crashes involving bikers are because drivers in cars don't look out for them. Mind you you do get alot of muppets on bikes but you also get alot of muppets in cars :thumbs:
 
Whilst driving in Cumbria near Windermere I came across this RTA. The heap on the right is a bike that had gone under the land Rover and burst into flames also setting fire to the car. The rider appeared to be very seriously injured and a couple who had also stopped were very distressed as was the car driver.

The rider was later taken away by the air ambulance, although by this time I had left the scene and parked a bit further away as the emergency services started to arrive.

I was seriously tempted to take more shots but felt it would cause to much distress to those at the scene ... What would you have done?

4591928163_3d412d7008_o.jpg
when was this exactly?

nothing about it here ?

http://northwestairambulance.wordpress.com/
 
Matt... maybe the guy has a point ? I to also dont think this pic is "correct"

There is no harm at all in him questioning this. Unless its suddenly become un "PC" to question another members photograph


Also, having done a full google and yahoo search .There is NOTHING about this in the local press. Now i had a pic published by the Independent last week. It was Online within 40 mins as it was a good local story. I would imagine that papers up there also have a online edition where it would make a story.


Anyway.... I am still not convinced. Total lack of people . Unless everyone was behind the land Rover ?



did I say it was the "Enfield Independent " ? :-)

Feel free to share your reasons for the picture being incorrect :shrug: Regarding the people! When I took this very few people were actually in attendance no emergency services had arrived! and if you look you will see it's on a bend and a hill. The people were behind and to the left.
 
Not all bikers are like that mate, and alot of crashes involving bikers are because drivers in cars don't look out for them. Mind you you do get alot of muppets on bikes but you also get alot of muppets in cars :thumbs:

No, not all bikers are like that, not all ride outside the boundaries of their abilities, but a lot do.

How many bike deaths are caused by speed rather than other interference? Be an interesting stat.
 
i think it's about keeping with the thread, it's not about the image being real or fake the question is what would you do, not spot the difference :)
 
Matt... maybe the guy has a point ? I to also dont think this pic is "correct"

There is no harm at all in him questioning this. Unless its suddenly become un "PC" to question another members photograph

No, but so far we have had 2 people who appear to have registered purely to say that it has been photoshopped but have not backed it up with anything.
 
Am I right in thinking that a story can't be published until the outcomes of those effected have been established? If the rider passed away immediate family would have to be informed of the situation before the big red publish button is pressed, right? If that's the case then perhaps thats why nothing has been said. Thats how some of it works here anyway.

No comment on the morality of the image though. Things like this are wee bit delicate on this forum (no offense).
 
Matt... maybe the guy has a point ? I to also dont think this pic is "correct"

There is no harm at all in him questioning this. Unless its suddenly become un "PC" to question another members photograph


Also, having done a full google and yahoo search .There is NOTHING about this in the local press. Now i had a pic published by the Independent last week. It was Online within 40 mins as it was a good local story. I would imagine that papers up there also have a online edition where it would make a story.


Anyway.... I am still not convinced. Total lack of people . Unless everyone was behind the land Rover ?

He might have a point but just like the other poster this a first post and stinks of troll.

I'd also like to hear why you think this image is not "correct" as to me it just seems like you are stirring it without anything to back it up with. Just because you cannot see anyone does not mean it did not happen or do you think Splog decided to get a motorbike and a Land Rover, smash them up a bit and then set fire to them?
 
Matt... maybe the guy has a point ? I to also dont think this pic is "correct"

There is no harm at all in him questioning this. Unless its suddenly become un "PC" to question another members photograph

Also, having done a full google and yahoo search .There is NOTHING about this in the local press. Now i had a pic published by the Independent last week. It was Online within 40 mins as it was a good local story. I would imagine that papers up there also have a online edition where it would make a story.

Anyway.... I am still not convinced. Total lack of people . Unless everyone was behind the land Rover ?

did I say it was the "Enfield Independent " ? :-)

0 post members coming in and going 'this if FAKE!!!!' and then not hearing from them again annoys me. If you have reasons to believe its not right, then say what they are, dont dick about.

I find it odd that there are no people too.
 
If you have reasons to believe its not right, then say what they are, dont dick about.

I do like your forthright comments Matt...............:lol:
 
I used to be so mellow. pressures of work you know.

Splog, any chance of a 100% crop of the wing of the landrover and/or the bike?
 
0 post members coming in and going 'this if FAKE!!!!' and then not hearing from them again annoys me. If you have reasons to believe its not right, then say what they are, dont dick about.

I find it odd that there are no people too.

Matt, I appreciate what you say, but this was a back road in the lake district on a Sunday afternoon :shrug: How many people would anyone seriously expect to be there within a few minutes of an accident :thinking:

If anyone can suggest how the shot has been faked then please do so :cool:
 
I used to be so mellow. pressures of work you know.

Splog, any chance of a 100% crop of the wing of the landrover and/or the bike?

PM about to be sent :)
 
Matt... maybe the guy has a point ? I to also dont think this pic is "correct"

Anyway.... I am still not convinced. Total lack of people . Unless everyone was behind the land Rover ?

did I say it was the "Enfield Independent " ? :-)

I'm with the random newbie and luke here.

Photographically the image doesn't look right the light on the landrover doesn't appear to match the light in the rest of the shot, very contrasty with a clear light direction vs a very diffused light.

The size of the landrover compared to the road sign looks wrong as does the contrast levels.

Assuming the bike was travelling towards the landrover I am surprised at the lack of any tyre marks from the breaking of the bike as it lost control.

The positions look odd for a head on RTA the momentum of the bike would have driven it forward and caused some damage unless of course the landrover was reversing.

I could be wrong of course....
 
Whilst driving in Cumbria near Windermere I came across this RTA. The heap on the right is a bike that had gone under the land Rover and burst into flames also setting fire to the car. The rider appeared to be very seriously injured and a couple who had also stopped were very distressed as was the car driver.

The rider was later taken away by the air ambulance, although by this time I had left the scene and parked a bit further away as the emergency services started to arrive.

I was seriously tempted to take more shots but felt it would cause to much distress to those at the scene ... What would you have done?

4591928163_3d412d7008_o.jpg


Steve

is this pic a RAW or JPG file, and was it "touched" in anyway before it was posted?

Any other pics at all? if you hung around etc, i would have expected a few more shots of the emergency services turning up etc ?

Ok.. to use the expression "lets shoot from the Hip" PM me the reg details of the Land Rover.It would take very little to see if it was recorded as been involved in a accident

then we can get on with life ! And i say Sorry or you explain why this "event" is not real ?
 
I'm with the random newbie and luke here.

Photographically the image doesn't look right the light on the landrover doesn't appear to match the light in the rest of the shot, very contrasty with a clear light direction vs a very diffused light.

The size of the landrover compared to the road sign looks wrong as does the contrast levels.

Assuming the bike was travelling towards the landrover I am surprised at the lack of any tyre marks from the breaking of the bike as it lost control.

The positions look odd for a head on RTA the momentum of the bike would have driven it forward and caused some damage unless of course the landrover was reversing.

I could be wrong of course....

Yes, you could !


So how often is that updated?
 
If you all look in the middle of the image, on the road you will see a dark line, it looks like something off the bike has dug into the tarmac as it was sliding across the road. If it had carried on along this line it would have hit the Defender just in front of the sign post.

The defender would of pushed the bike to where it currently sits and then I would of hoped, reversed backwards, off the bike to where it currently stands.

As for the original question, I have the hero complex so would probably have made sure everyone was ok before getting the camera out. However, even using the camera is a moral decision that everyone must make on their own.
 
Something appalls me about a few of the posts here. I cannot believe in this day and age there are so many people about who have no idea of first aid. Surely ANYONE who came across a scene like this would stop to render assistance? But no, I know from first hand. I witnessed a fatality only a couple of week sago. The bike came past me, perfectly good overtake. The next bend he braked too hard, lost the front end and hit the front wing of a car coming the other way - the other car driver was in no way to blame. The guy lost his leg, in two places, and my son and I watched his leg parts flying through the air, and his body, like a rag doll. That bike also caught fire on impact with the ground. Whilst we were only seconds behind, we did what we could at the time - but within 10 seconds maybe there was a car came the other way, a gold Merc, the driver actually weaved through the burning wreckage and body parts on the road and refused to stop and help.....first witness on scene from the other direction, drove past the body of the rider and had to avoid wreckage to get through, but was too wrapped up in his own business to stop and help at the scene. I got his number - he has had a visit.

Back to this picture. I can't get my head around the smoke. The angle of the main smoke is towards the camera - so the wind direction is from behind the landy - so why is there smoke coming from the back of the land rover?

The rider I saw was probably dead on impact, but it was still my duty to assist and to check for vital signs - his thgh was open was it was torn off, no trousers left. I still see visions and it has made me wonder at what the medics out in Afghanistan and Iraq and other places have to deal with in the battle field - bloody incredible. At the time, I just did what I could for the couople in the car, who were totally hysterical and shocked. It was pretty obvious I could do nothing for the rider, there were no vitals when I checked. Cleared the scene - directed traffic. My lad ran ahead 9to behid the car) and stopped traffic that way and turned people away so we contained the scene until the paramedic and police arrived - some 10 minutes later. It was also in a rural area. The bike had burned out before the police/paramedics arrived. I still wonder if I shouldn't have covered the body with something from pour car - I carry a blanket and sleeping bag at all times (and a camp stove, soup and water - but that is another matter). It troubles me that I didn't think to give the poor rider some peace and dignity at the scene, but I was concerned for the old couple and concentrated my efforts on them. My car was blocking the road from our direction - I brought it up across the road when we stopped.

Anyway - shoulod I have taken pictures at the scene - I had my camera. I am a full time pro working in press situation. NO. I was first on scene and it was my duty to render assistance.

GO AND GET FIRST TRAINING ANYONE WHO IS READING THSI AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO IN SUCH A SITUATION. NEXT TIME IT MIGHT BE ME YOU ARE LOOKING AT, OR MY SON, OR SOMEONE YOU KNOW.

YES I AM SHOUTING. I WANT IT TO SINK IN.
 
I'd have helped. I'd be open to potential legal action if I so much as stopped to take a single shot - unless it was important for mechanism. Quite a few of us trauma guys ride bikes, too... In this case, though, the first rule is scene safety. There are at least two fuel tanks there, ready to go; if it's not safe, I'd have to wait.

Dan, Is that due to your profession? What if it was me for example and I was heartless, Not helping people in distress and carried on shooting, Could I be done for soemthing? (All hyperthetical of course, I would help however I could)
 
Nothing wrong with that rant Simon, I am first aid trained, a motor sport safety officer & walk with a stick due to a horrid bike smash in the late 70's, I would not hesitate to assist & have dealt with multiple stabings & heart attacks as well as rta's.
 
Something appalls me about a few of the posts here. I cannot believe in this day and age there are so many people about who have no idea of first aid. Surely ANYONE who came across a scene like this would stop to render assistance? But no, I know from first hand. I witnessed a fatality only a couple of week sago. The bike came past me, perfectly good overtake. The next bend he braked too hard, lost the front end and hit the front wing of a car coming the other way - the other car driver was in no way to blame. The guy lost his leg, in two places, and my son and I watched his leg parts flying through the air, and his body, like a rag doll. That bike also caught fire on impact with the ground. Whilst we were only seconds behind, we did what we could at the time - but within 10 seconds maybe there was a car came the other way, a gold Merc, the driver actually weaved through the burning wreckage and body parts on the road and refused to stop and help.....first witness on scene from the other direction, drove past the body of the rider and had to avoid wreckage to get through, but was too wrapped up in his own business to stop and help at the scene. I got his number - he has had a visit.

Back to this picture. I can't get my head around the smoke. The angle of the main smoke is towards the camera - so the wind direction is from behind the landy - so why is there smoke coming from the back of the land rover?

The rider I saw was probably dead on impact, but it was still my duty to assist and to check for vital signs - his thgh was open was it was torn off, no trousers left. I still see visions and it has made me wonder at what the medics out in Afghanistan and Iraq and other places have to deal with in the battle field - bloody incredible. At the time, I just did what I could for the couople in the car, who were totally hysterical and shocked. It was pretty obvious I could do nothing for the rider, there were no vitals when I checked. Cleared the scene - directed traffic. My lad ran ahead 9to behid the car) and stopped traffic that way and turned people away so we contained the scene until the paramedic and police arrived - some 10 minutes later. It was also in a rural area. The bike had burned out before the police/paramedics arrived. I still wonder if I shouldn't have covered the body with something from pour car - I carry a blanket and sleeping bag at all times (and a camp stove, soup and water - but that is another matter). It troubles me that I didn't think to give the poor rider some peace and dignity at the scene, but I was concerned for the old couple and concentrated my efforts on them. My car was blocking the road from our direction - I brought it up across the road when we stopped.

Anyway - shoulod I have taken pictures at the scene - I had my camera. I am a full time pro working in press situation. NO. I was first on scene and it was my duty to render assistance.

GO AND GET FIRST TRAINING ANYONE WHO IS READING THSI AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO IN SUCH A SITUATION. NEXT TIME IT MIGHT BE ME YOU ARE LOOKING AT, OR MY SON, OR SOMEONE YOU KNOW.

YES I AM SHOUTING. I WANT IT TO SINK IN.
Now lets add in the madness of "i am going to sue you for trying to help me"

thats the sick world we live in. My soon to be wife is a fully qualified nurse. She works at the UK most prestigious Hospital. she is very worried about ever helping someone in a RTA etc just incase they decide some of their injuries where down to anything she did.


sad sad world.
 
Back to this picture. I can't get my head around the smoke. The angle of the main smoke is towards the camera - so the wind direction is from behind the landy - so why is there smoke coming from the back of the land rover?

If you look the back door is open on the discovery, probably due to smoke inside the cabin. The air passing over the top would pull the smoke out from the back door and back over the top of the car towards the front.

As for first aid, no matter how much training some people get, they would be useless under the pressure you get at an accident. When it comes to first aid, if you can't do it well then you shouldn't do it at all as you could make things worse!
 
I would have to go help first....I am a fire fighter and ambulance technician by profession, so thats my natural first instinct to help in situations like that.

If there were people already there helping, the camera would be out.
 
Steve

is this pic a RAW or JPG file, and was it "touched" in anyway before it was posted?

Any other pics at all? if you hung around etc, i would have expected a few more shots of the emergency services turning up etc ?

Ok.. to use the expression "lets shoot from the Hip" PM me the reg details of the Land Rover.It would take very little to see if it was recorded as been involved in a accident

then we can get on with life ! And i say Sorry or you explain why this "event" is not real ?

Luke, the shot was taken raw and converted to jpeg for the forum! Regarding more shots .. I didn't take them (point of the OP?) Please see my OP

Whilst driving in Cumbria near Windermere I came across this RTA. The heap on the right is a bike that had gone under the land Rover and burst into flames also setting fire to the car. The rider appeared to be very seriously injured and a couple who had also stopped were very distressed as was the car driver.

The rider was later taken away by the air ambulance, although by this time I had left the scene and parked a bit further away as the emergency services started to arrive.

I was seriously tempted to take more shots but felt it would cause to much distress to those at the scene

I had to move to the bottom of the hill about 200 yards. I was in a large motorhome and blocking the road to any emergency services!
 
splog has sent me the full hires image

the burning front corner of the landrover, the bullbar, that is bent, the numberplate is damaged and there is a lot of bike bits around that area, clearly where the bike hit the vehicle. the fire is the left front tyre of the vehicle, which has set the wing off, the light has fallen out as the sheild around it has melted. The bike is trashed. the road is also marked, which would be consistant with a slide.
 
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