What would i need to shoot a wedding?

chocky

chocky

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Si
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Im after some advice on the above if you could give me your advice please :)

First off im already buying the following in april, Canon 5D Mk II + 24-70mm f/2.8 L + Canon 70-200mm f/4 L + Nissin Di866 Pro Flashgun. Then there is the cursory memory cards, spare batteries, tri-grip reflector(s) and tripod. Im also buying the Gary Fong Light sphere kit as well then finally im considering hiring a canon 16-35mm L from lenses for hire as well for the actual event but other than that what else would you call absolutely necessary?

Im nowhere near experienced enough to do weddings on my tod but im hoping to get there in a couple of years (the actual wedding ive been asked to do is in march 2012 so ive got plenty of time), but im toying with the idea of offering my services for free as an assistant or something then leading to my own gigs when ive built my portfolio.

Is my thinking correct or too ambitious? What other kit should i take to any wedding? Have you had any books or any learning materials (for weddings or portraits) that you would recommend? And finally since my kit is going to massively increase in value which insurance companies would you recommend?

Thanks in advance, any and all help is greatly appreciated as i really want to earn some money from this ludicrously expensive (but equally as enjoyable, if not more so) hobby.

Si
 
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The lenses you've listed will be fine, but you'll ideally need a second camera body in case of 'accidents' - I find it's better to have both in use with different lenses attached so as not to miss any opportunities.

If you're going for a basic approach, I think you'll be fine as you are, assuming your photographic skills are up to the task (BIG caveat there...pay heed). For a more ambitious package then the route you've suggested here: acting as a 'second' for a year or 18 months should put you in the position of knowing whether you can undertake a solo wedding or not.
 
chocky said:
Im after some advice on the above if you could give me your advice please :)

First off im already buying the following in april, Canon 5D Mk II + 24-70mm f/2.8 L + Canon 70-200mm f/4 L + Nissin Di866 Pro Flashgun. Then there is the cursory memory cards, spare batteries, tri-grip reflector(s) and tripod. Im also buying the Gary Fong Light sphere kit as well then finally im considering hiring a canon 16-35mm L from lenses for hire as well for the actual event but other than that what else would you call absolutely necessary?

Im nowhere near experienced enough to do weddings on my tod but im hoping to get there in a couple of years (the actual wedding ive been asked to do is in march 2012 so ive got plenty of time), but im toying with the idea of offering my services for free as an assistant or something then leading to my own gigs when ive built my portfolio.

Is my thinking correct or too ambitious? What other kit should i take to any wedding? Have you had any books or any learning materials (for weddings or portraits) that you would recommend? And finally since my kit is going to massively increase in value which insurance companies would you recommend?

Thanks in advance, any and all help is greatly appreciated as i really want to earn some money from this ludicrously expensive (but equally as enjoyable, if not more so) hobby.

Si
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As you're going to be charging, insurance is an absolute must, liability insurance is a 100% requirement. Even if not in the eyes of the law, a lot of venues will ask for proof. Professional indemnity as well in case a disgruntled company decide to sue you :D

Kit wise, you're onto a good start and to be honest could shoot a whole wedding with the lenses you have. I'd be looking for at least one prime though and like Rob says, you really do need to get a second body, the thought of shooting a wedding armed with only one camera would frighten me.

Good luck :thumbs:
 
The only thing you can't buy (and you've already high-lighted your own shortfall) ......
......

EXPERIENCE

Apart from that I agree with all the above
 
What about a second flash... a 580exII and 480exII at least?

At the last wedding I attended, I was there as family. The pro tog there was using Nikons, during the speeches he had a flashgun and small softbox below and infront of the top table. He was triggering them during the speeches, from the furthest back in the room he could stand. Ambient lighting wasnt great, late in the afternoon.

Just an idea, I have no experience so just offering an observation!


Andy
 
Thanks all, unfortunately i havent got the cash to buy a second camera just yet, i might be able to afford it in a year or so but not yet. Glad to see that ive got the right kit other than that though.

POAH said:
forget the nissin, get a canon 430ex2 at least.
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Im not too clued up on flashes but i was under the impression that the nissin was better than the 430EXII, only going off guide numbers though not experience, the nissin has a guide number of 60 and the canon 43. Also Photoplus magazine (canon edition) gave the nissin the best flashgun award so i thought it was a wise choice but maybe ive messed up. Ill look into the canon flashguns again i think :)

AndyB1976 said:
What about a second flash... a 580exII and 480exII at least?

At the last wedding I attended, I was there as family. The pro tog there was using Nikons, during the speeches he had a flashgun and small softbox below and infront of the top table. He was triggering them during the speeches, from the furthest back in the room he could stand. Ambient lighting wasnt great, late in the afternoon.

Just an idea, I have no experience so just offering an observation!


Andy
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I may be able to afford a second flash ill defo consider it, would i need wireless triggers as well? Any idea which ones and how much?

Cheers :)
 
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TBH, apart from definately recommending you save up for another body, if you are giving yourself 18mths before going solo, I wouldn't be stressing too much about which additional kit yet. Use this time to get some practice, see what other photographers are doing, and then decide what kit is right for you and what you want to do.
 
chocky said:
Thanks all, unfortunately i havent got the cash to buy a second camera just yet, i might be able to afford it in a year or so but not yet. Glad to see that ive got the right kit other than that though.



Im not too clued up on flashes but i was under the impression that the nissin was better than the 430EXII, only going off guide numbers though not experience, the nissin has a guide number of 60 and the canon 43. Also Photoplus magazine (canon edition) gave the nissin the best flashgun award so i thought it was a wise choice but maybe ive messed up. Ill look into the canon flashguns again i think :)



I may be able to afford a second flash ill defo consider it, would i need wireless triggers as well? Any idea which ones and how much?

Cheers :)
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I'm probably not (...definately not) best qualified to answer this, however I'll give it a go and I'm sure we'll be informed one way or t'other.

A 580exII has a Master controller function which allows E-TTL to be sent to other Canon E-TTL compatible slave flashes via infrared. Some third party flashes may be compatible, but for this answer and my lack of knowledge, I'd stick for Canon for assurance.

A 430exII can only act as a slave, or in other words if connected to the hotshoe it can't fire other flashes with E-TTL.

I have a 580exII, it was a bit of an expense for my one and only flash, however I am now glad I went with that choice. If I get another flash, Id probably go again for another 580exII. It has additional features including the infrared transmitter which I think makes it a better purchase.

Therefore if you have one 580EX it could trigger a number of 430 or 580 flashes using the built in infrared transmitter and not spend addtional cash on triggers. Infrared has its disadvantages compared to radio, distance is not as good and it falls off more outside.

Here is a comparison for those two specifically;
http://photo-tips-online.com/review/canon-430ex-ii-vs-canon-580ex-ii/


There are other wireless methods, cheap manual RF602 triggers, Pocket Wizards and Radio Poppers. The latter two transmit E-TTL, and are quite expensive compared to the manual RF602's, arguably you get what you pay for with these.


Andy
 
I've got the Nissin di866 and it's not too shabby but do consider a powerpack of either the canon version (it holds an additional 6 batteries) or the Nissin PS300 power pack or a Quantam (sp) powerpack. Otherwise the recharge time is very slow!

I'd certainly have this flash over a 430! I've also got a 550ex and a broken 580ex II which is why I got the Nissin.

I got my Nissin flash from 7dayshop at £179 and the PS300 from Digital Rev for £174 (over half price than the UK).

Not too sure on using the Nissin as a master and firing a second 580 or 550 but at weekend I'll give it a whirl and see if I can report back!

HTH,
Carl.
 
I'll list what I took to last weekend's wedding :)

(OK so it was a winter wedding in three locations and the late ceremony meant no light at all but that is what we have to cope with)

2 x D700s with six batteries and six CF cards
14-24mm f2.8
24-70mm f2.8
70-200mm f2.8

50mm f1.4
85mm f1.4
105mm f2.8

2 SB900's
Pocketwizards
2 Studio heads, brollies and lightstands

2 video lights and spare batteries

Tripod and monopod.
Laptop and card reader (for downloading my second's shots and backing up before leaving)

The whole lot just about fit in the back of my poor long suffering other half's Land Rover because the weather was so pants!

I know you are just starting out but thought it might be useful information that I used just about every bit of that kit on Saturday. The groups all had to be shot indoors so had to set up a corner of the venue "event stylee"

If you decide that it is what you want to do long term that's the level of kit you need to be considering (depending on style but I'd have been knackered without the extra lighting this week)
 
i'm not sure you'd need to go the extreme's of hiring a 16-35 on a full frame. that is v e r y wide. maybe the wedding togs would tell you different, but i'd much prefer to swap that in place of a nifty 50 and say a 135mm prime.

you're talking a lot of dough here for initial outlay - so it's good that you're choosing wisely and considering all the options.

just my 2p.
 
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AliB said:
I'll list what I took to last weekend's wedding :)

*snip* Loads of stuff...*snip*
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And we still only get to charge more or less the same as we did 20 years ago...

Think about that...

What other industry has seen prices effectively fall by that amount?
 
@AndyB1976 - Thanks for that fella, think im going for the 580EX II now, use that on my hotshoe then get either 430's as slaves or maybe push the boat out for the extra power of the 580's. Can maybe afford two of the 580's giving me one off camera flash or 1 580 and 2 430's giving me 2 off camera flashes, not decided yet but thanks again for that. Would certainly save me buying wireless triggers if the 580 already has the built in capability.

@CarlOgden - Awesome, would be interested to hear how that goes, thanks mate :)

@AliB - Thank you very much, that list gives me a far better idea of what i need and also tells me that ive got nowhere near enough kit, or even a big enough car for that matter :/ One step at a time though lol :) The kit i can expand gradually over time but ive got a lot of practising to do in the meantime to get used to flash photography. Noobie question coming up, whats a video light and is more essential than than the standard flashgun's?

@leftcurl, OK, taken in, thanks mate, will defo think twice about that lens now, i should be able to hire two primes instead but im more worried about the fact that i can defo only get one camera body, makes 4 lenses quite difficult to work with, i may be able to afford a second hand cropped sensor body but even thats doubtful in the short to medium term. Since the two lenses that im buying (24-70mm L and 70-200mm L) cover both the ranges that youve stated anyway could i get away with just those or is it a massive leap in quality on a prime? Ive got a prime in my current setup (sony 50mm 1.8) and its really sharp but imo not so sharp that id drop everything else for it. Cheers again fella :)

Thanks again all, really appreciate this, its giving me a far more realistic idea of what ive taken on here. I now realise my initial capital is not enough to get the stuff i actually need but a bit of perserverence and some sacrifices here and there (bye bye gym membership :() and i may be able to get all the stuff i need (except a bigger car lol).

Si
 
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chocky said:
...I now realise my initial capital is not enough to get the stuff i actually need but a bit of perserverence and some sacrifices here and there (bye bye gym membership :() and i may be able to get all the stuff i need (except a bigger car lol).

Si
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You'll need the bigger car to carry it all in and you'll need the gym membership to bulk up enough to carry it all to the car...lol
 
lol I have to admit I was a bit tired after 12 hours lugging everything around in sub zero temperatures. You are right Rob, should be in the gym!

A video light Si is not essential. It's basically a focusable halogen spotlight that I can ask my second to point at the couple on the end of my monopod. Makes for fast shooting because I just ask for the light higher, lower, step in, step out etc. Works a treat in this really cold weather because I can plan and shoot three or four outdoor setups in a just a few minutes before everyone freezes.

I'm catching up on processing the images but I do plan to write a blog post about planning your way out of potential disasters! ;)
 
lol, keeping the gym membership then :D

OK so video light not essential but could do with one eventually i guess. Sounds like its a constant light which would make it easier to point the light in whatever direction. How much do decent ones retail for?

Also how important is it to have an assistant? If its quite important how much (percentage wise) do you usually pay them?

Cheers

Si
 
Being a complete amateur and hobbyist picture taker I would say the main thing you need is a portfolio of wedding shots.
The reason I say this is if you require so much advice you are not confident in what you are doing.
A wedding is a one off event and I would not do one without being 100% confident in my skill. (Which I am not hence I don't do weddings even for family)

The best advice as someone as said is practise as a ******ed of bride is not a pretty sight.
 
chocky said:
lol, keeping the gym membership then :D

OK so video light not essential but could do with one eventually i guess. Sounds like its a constant light which would make it easier to point the light in whatever direction. How much do decent ones retail for?

Also how important is it to have an assistant? If its quite important how much (percentage wise) do you usually pay them?

Cheers

Si
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A good video light is not cheap (cough £500!)

I like working both AS a second and WITH a second. Done right it adds a lot to the coverage. There are times I cannot be in two places at once so I will ask my second to shoot specific shots for me. When I work AS a second I usually get tasked with specific things to do so it's all good.

The other benefit of working as a team is the lighting. Having a second who can put either video light or flash just where it is needed is a great help, saves oodles of time and is just more efficient. You can shoot weddings solo, I know plenty of great photographers who do just that. I just find teamwork helps :)

We don't pay each other but help each other out as and when required and we all gain from that :)
 
Having been through various iterations of kit I now carry two bodies - one with the 27-70mm and the other with the 70-200mm. I keep a 50mm f1.4 with me as well but I find I don't need anything else apart from a couple of flashes and associated modifiers/stands etc.

I would caution against using the GF Lightsphere at a wedding as they are very bulky - at best it will be getting knocked off, at worst you could end up with a flash snapping at or around the hotshoe due to the strain. Try practicing bouncing the flash of walls or ceilings for a softer light or failing that, use something like the Demb Flip-it which is an excellent bit of kit and can be folded back against the gun when not in use. Get yourself a couple of small lightstands, I use these for all the speeches now with two flashguns and remote triggers set up (with the Demb Flip-its) and this gives me consistent light at the top table. As Andy mentioned above this gives me the freedom to move around and shoot from all parts of the room if required. I also use the stands for the first dance shots, there are plenty of my posts with examples if you are interested.

Finally, for the bride and groom portraits consider getting a portable softbox type thing to give you softer light.

Above all, practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. :D
 
@Hacker, your setup sounds more achievable fella, when you say 2 bodies are they both D3's? I defo cant afford a second 5D Mk II thats just far far beyond my budget unfortunately. Could i get away with a cropped body, say a 550D or something (maybe even up to a 60D but not just yet). Just had a lil look at the flip its, they look better in terms of weight and are hugely cheaper as well so i think ill get them instead, cheers for that. Ref the portable softbox i dont suppose you have a link to a good example for a wedding have you? Just so i can see what size and what brand that kind of thing. Lightstands have now been added to my list so thanks again mate :)

Sorry to all if im being so precise or anal, i just wnat to make sure i get the kit right and then i dont have to worry about anything else on the day itself :)

EDIT: Just to clarify, if, for instance, i had 3 x canon speedlite 580 EX II's - 1 on camera and 2 off camera, i take it i wouldnt need any triggers? As the 580 has this capability built in? Just wnat to make sure im right before i decide im buying 3 of them :)

Si
 
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Thanks for that fella, forgot to mention in my OP i already have CS5 anyway say hopefully that should be OK. But thanks all the same :)
 
Yes but the OP was asking about the equipment so that's what we are answering :)

And I do believe our OP is at the start of the journey and we have all been there once, you can only get experience by actually doing it :)
 
DerekL said:
Or the artistic skill to do the clients justice!!!

This is to concentrated on equipment and not skill and experience.
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Wow, thanks for the input :cuckoo:

Rather than slating the thread you could have offered some advice, if you read the OP it does ask for any advice as well as the kit??!! But since i cant do anything without the kit then it is really rather important!!
 
Hi Colin, a question for you :)

If you only take the three lenses what would you do it a disaster struck your 70-200mm?

I know I shoot a heck of a lot on mine and I worry that I could damage it, smash it or it develops a fault. That's why I also have some primes that cover some of the range. With the 85mm and 105mm I can cover that off to an extent and the macro gets used a lot for bridal prep and details.

Is it a case of kidnapping Yv? :)
 
Sorry another noobie question coming up, the canon speedlite 580 EX II says it comes with a hot shoe table stand, is this what id use to attach it to a light stand for off camera flash? On top of that with the 580 would i need wireless triggers?

EDIT: @Hacker, trying to find the demb flip-its mate, all i can find is american sites, any idea where i can it from in the UK?
 
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You can do it Si but it is basically a plastic foot and I would not trust it! Better to get something called a cold shoe that fits on top of the light stand or an umbrella bracket so you can use it with a brollie Calumet do a decent brollie adaptor.

To trigger it off camera you have three options. An ST-E2 from Canon which works on IR (so it's based on light) Radio triggers (obviously based on radio waves) or a TTL cable.

Radio trigger wise there are loads to choose from from Chinese imports to Pocketwizards. Some work only on manual and some work on TTL so they transmit the cameras metering info.

HTH
 
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AliB said:
You can do it Si but it is basically a plastic foot and I would not trust it! Better to get something called a cold shoe that fits on top of the light stand or an umbrella bracket so you can use it with a brollie Calumet do a decent brollie adaptor.

To trigger it off camera you have three options. An ST-E2 from Canon which works on IR (so it's based on light) Radio triggers (obviously based on radio waves) or a TTL cable.

Radio trigger wise there are loads to choose from from Chinese imports to Pocketwizards. Some work only on manual and some work on TTL so they transmit the cameras metering info.

HTH
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You are fast turning into my hero :) Thank you very much, you have been really helpful :) :thumbs:

Would this baby do the job for connecting my flash to or would i still need some sort of bracket? http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy...brellas-_-WexPro-Off-Camera-Flash-Kit_1523166

Thanks again

Si
 
Not a problem at all Si, you ask the right questions! lol

Yes that will do the job nicely :)
 
chocky said:
EDIT: Just to clarify, if, for instance, i had 3 x canon speedlite 580 EX II's - 1 on camera and 2 off camera, i take it i wouldnt need any triggers? As the 580 has this capability built in? Just wnat to make sure im right before i decide im buying 3 of them :)

Si
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Thats correct, they would be triggered by the 580exII using infrared. You don't need to buy more 580s, you can trigger 430s off the 580 master. The problem arises if you only have one master, in this case a 580 and it fails. Also please check the literature on the effective range of the infrared beam indoors and outdoors to ensure its suitable at distance. Its online somewhere, Ill have a look and drop a link in later if I can find it. Otherwise you will need radio triggers.

You can also buy a simple Canon infrared transmitter, a ST-E2, mentioned by AliB, which slips onto the hotshoe and acts as the master. This in not a flash, simply a commander if you like.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Speedlite-Wireless-Remote-Transmitter/dp/B0000C4G95

You can see the price here is about £170 add a 430 for £199, you can see thats slightly more expensive than a 580ex, although you would have another flash effectively off camera now. I believe the 580 is weatherproof, head twists 180degrees in both directions and recharges quicker than a 430 (amongst other things).

You have great kit, and a desire to go ahead with it.....I think 580s are your best bet (instead of a £100-£150 saving on the 430ex). Thats just my gut feeling, and as I said earlier, Im merely an amature in the strictest sense of the word, and yet Id still consider a second 580 for my bag....but Ive got the bug :bonk:
 
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