What type of camera next ?

stevie1965

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Hi all. I have sold my Canon sx50 hs bridge camera and I wish to have a lighter camera. I'm trying to decide between a 1" or Micro four thirds camera. Do I go for a 1" with a good optical zoom, or a Micro four thirds with less zoom but better quality pics and then crop ? I do tend to zoom into the moon on my holidays so I would like to re-create the pics I have taken with my bridge camera. My research so far has led me to the Panasonic Lumix tz100.

Hope this is clear & thanks in advance. Steve.
 
The TZ100 is good.. but very soft towards the end of the zoom. Shame you can't squeeze a lttlle bit bigger really, the Sony RX10 is a stunner.
 
Thanks for your reply, my last bridge camera was really good but I do want a smaller/lighter camera.
 
I personally find the 1" compact cameras too small and fiddly, although if you don't then maybe this will be a great option as it would be smaller and lighter that an m4/3 with lens, assuming you want a camera with a viewfinder.

If you are happy with a fixed lens then one of the Fuji X100's, or the Ricoh GR series would be good options to look at as they will have very good IQ.
 
As I'm not that experienced I need to know if it's vital I have a decent zoom, or should I just crop my photos on my laptop ? Most of the cameras I've looked have a max optical zoom of 4x. I only want spend a mx of £600 & don't mind buying 2nd hand.
 
If you want a long zoom in a small format camera then M43 all the way. E-M10 III twin lens outfit will cover things well within budget, but won't be much smaller than your bridge camera.

How important is a long zoom? Nothing at this scale will crop well.
 
I had a Canon sx50 hs which had a 50x optical & 200x digital. I was pleased with the photos I had but want something less bulky. Maybe I'm asking for the impossible but I'm asking for advice from more experienced people on here. I just thought that if I got a camera with better clarity then I could crop the photos on my laptop afterwards and that way the zoom wouldn't be so important.
 
With your old camera you could zoom in a lot with optical zoom and still have a 12 megapixel image.

With a new camera you may be able to crop in, but you may end up with a significant smaller image which limits what you can do with it.
 
Thanks, I think I know where this is going.....buy another bridge-camera :LOL:

Nothing else comes close to the tiny size and incredible zooming of a bridge camera. The image quality will suck a bit because of the tiny sensor, but that tiny sensor also allows an incredible zoom range to be made so small. It's just physics really. I owned a Fuji HS30 and at the same time my brother had an SX40 (model before yours). They're amazing at what the can do, but image quality is never going to be very good BECAUSE of that same small sensor - my Fuji convinced me that I wanted to go back to an interchangeable lens camera again.

I just thought that if I got a camera with better clarity then I could crop the photos on my laptop afterwards and that way the zoom wouldn't be so important.

This is possible, but not in a small, cheap camera. To replicate the zooming capability of that SX50 (1200mm equivalent) but have better image quality you'd want something like a Sony A7rIV and the 24-240mm and 200-600mm zoom - that would be a couple of months salary for most people and weigh 5X as much. It's just physics really.

:)
 
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I had a Canon sx50 hs which had a 50x optical & 200x digital. I was pleased with the photos I had but want something less bulky. Maybe I'm asking for the impossible but I'm asking for advice from more experienced people on here. I just thought that if I got a camera with better clarity then I could crop the photos on my laptop afterwards and that way the zoom wouldn't be so important.
Forget digital zoom tbh, that’s no different to cropping on the computer and reduces resolution. The sx50 has a 24-1200mm lens and you’re just not going to achieve this with a larger sensor format without significantly increasing size and weight.

But I would ask myself how much you actually need that reach? Unless you’re an avid wildlife photographer or trying to shoot the Clangers on the moon I doubt you need it other than to go “wow look how far I can zoom in” ;) For a lot of people a 24-70mm is a pretty good allrounder lens.

You could get something like the Olympus EM10 and 14-150mm lens, giving you the effective focal length of 28-300mm and in that range the IQ should be significantly better than your bridge camera but it won’t be any smaller or lighter.

I you don’t want to compromise too much with a zoom but still want better IQ in a smaller package then the 1” TZ cameras are your only option really, but they’re still not going to come close to 1200mm.
 
My first thought after selling my sx50 was the canon sx740, but then I started looking at the 1" sensors and then onto the m43. I just wanted something similar to the sx50...but smaller.
 
The TZ100 is small, smaller than a bridge and has a 25-250mm zoom, or something like that. It's pretty good apart from as Stickytape says the lens which is soft at some lengths. The picture quality doesn't quite match MTF but isn't bad if you can stop yourself from pixel peeping,

There's a thread here...

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/panasonic-tz100.653653/

If you are happy to crop that's an option but I'm not sure what length you're wanting to go to and what focal length is the starting point. If you like I'll take a picture with my TZ100 and crop a MFT picture to the same field of view but I'd need to know what focal length to shoot with.

A GX80 with a 14-42mm G vario lens is compact little thing but maybe it'd make more sense as a two lens set up with the small and capable 45-150mm. I don't know what a GX80 and those two lenses will cost though.

If you want me to take two comparison pictures just let me know. I could do it tomorrow, that's Friday.
 
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My first thought after selling my sx50 was the canon sx740, but then I started looking at the 1" sensors and then onto the m43. I just wanted something similar to the sx50...but smaller.
I think as you mentioned you are looking for something that doesn't exist unfortunately.
 
Thanks everyone, this has really helped. After thinking about what types of photos I mainly take ( landscapes/seascapes ), I think I'm going to sacrifice the long zoom over quality. So given I've only got £600, what are your thoughts ?
 
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Thanks everyone, this has really helped. After thinking about what types of photos I mainly take ( landscapes/seascapes ), I think I'm going to sacrifice the long zoom over quality. So given I've only got £600, what are your thoughts ?
So here's the issue, assuming similar age tech then the larger the sensor the better the image quality but then the bigger the lenses need to be to cover that sensor. This is why you can get a compact 24-1200mm lens in a bridge camera as it only has a 1/2.3" sensor, compared to a FF sensor which is roughly 36mm x 24mm


The next thing is the lens, lens quality has a big impact on image quality. Faster/brighter lenses with wide apertures tend to be heavier and larger. So as you will be becoming aware of, it's always a compromise between size/weight, image quality and cost. I've been searching for the holy grail in getting the best IQ but in a small lightweight package and I am still looking. The best compromise I found was the m4/3 system and am a big fan of Olympus. Image quality is excellent and size is manageable', however depending on the body and lens(es) you choose it can still be considerably bigger and heavier than your bridge camera.

The first 'step' into getting noticeably better image quality (IMO) are the 1" type cameras, such as the Sony RX100 series, the Canon G7x and G5x series, and Panny TZ series (some of them). Sony and Canon have the advantage in that they have faster lenses allowing more light to enter the camera and therefore will perform better when light is less than desirable. The TZ's have the advantage of extra reach (zoom) but at the sacrifice of light gathering, at the long end less than a quarter of the light that the Sony and Canon allow. One consideration with the compact cameras is that whilst they're good for carrying around the size means that they 'can' be fiddly to use.

The next step up is the Panasonic LX100 and LX100 II which use an m4/3 sensor although it's slightly cropped and so not quite the full size of the sensor. These again have nice bright lenses and offer better IQ than the 1" cameras, but at the expense of them being bigger and having a 'limited' zoom.

Next step (in terms of sensor size) is the m4/3 system which can produce excellent images. You can have a pretty small setup like the EM10 and pancake zoom which will take very nice images, but light gathering of this lens isn't the best. You can get a superb fast (that means it gathers a lot of light) zoom lens in the 12-40mm f2.8 but it's larger and more expensive.

There are then fixed lens APS-C cameras which have bigger sensors still. Some have zooms such as the G1x series but at the sacrifice of lower light gathering, and then you have fixed single focal length cameras such as the Fuji X100 series and Ricoh GR series.

You then have the interchangeable DX and FF cameras but we're generally starting to get into bigger, heavier and more expensive gear here.

Here's a comparison of sensor size, what you have currently is the 1/2.3" (bottom row second from right)

camera-sensor-size-12
by TDG-77, on Flickr





And here's a comparison of the size of some of the cameras I've just mentioned.

Screenshot 2020-06-05 at 13.16.30
by TDG-77, on Flickr
 
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Thanks everyone, this has really helped. After thinking about what types of photos I mainly take ( landscapes/seascapes ), I think I'm going to sacrifice the long zoom over quality. So given I've only got £600, what are your thoughts ?


My money would (did!) go on a Sony RX-100. Small in size (fits in a shirt pocket) and great image quality (for a compact). There are a few things I would like to change on it but I'm willing to put up with them for what else it offers.
 
Thanks for such detailed answers, I think my minds made up to get a m43or aps-c. I'll do some more research on here ( maybe some more threads ) & online and see where my £600 will go.
 
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Thanks for such detailed answers, I think my minds made up to get a m43or aps-c. I'll do some more research on here ( maybe some more threads ) & online and see where my £600 will go.
OK so this is going to be controversial but quite a lot of time it's difficult to distinguish a photo taken with an m4/3 camera with one taken with a full frame camera, let alone the tiny difference between m4/3 and APS-C so I'd say to focus on which has the features you want and which has the better ergonomics rather than the difference in IQ between m4/3 and APS-C

Assuming that you want an interchangeable lens camera I would either recommend something like the EM10-II, or Sony A6000 series. There's Fuji too but they don't tend to do much in the way of budget friendly lenses.
 
OK so this is going to be controversial but quite a lot of time it's difficult to distinguish a photo taken with an m4/3 camera with one taken with a full frame camera, let alone the tiny difference between m4/3 and APS-C so I'd say to focus on which has the features you want and which has the better ergonomics rather than the difference in IQ between m4/3 and APS-C

Assuming that you want an interchangeable lens camera I would either recommend something like the EM10-II, or Sony A6000 series. There's Fuji too but they don't tend to do much in the way of budget friendly lenses.

I'd go along with this. It does no harm to start off with something that's basically good and pretty cost-effective that will allow you to develop and upgrade if you decide you want to without losing too much. IIRC you said that used was also OK, so consider too an Olympus E-M5 MkII.
 
I'd go along with this. It does no harm to start off with something that's basically good and pretty cost-effective that will allow you to develop and upgrade if you decide you want to without losing too much. IIRC you said that used was also OK, so consider too an Olympus E-M5 MkII.
I thought about the EM5-II but didn’t think they’d be in budget but just checked and they’ve come right down in price used. If it was me I’d absolutely choose this over the other options given (y)
 
Update: I've just found another £100 in my Paypal account from when I sold my Canon SX50...yayyy ! I've attached one of my favourite photos from Skiathos that I took with that camera. I should be going on holiday for 2 weeks to Greece today (before Covid-19) so I thought that photo was apt. It also gives you the type of photos I like to take. I've decided on the Four Thirds over the APS-C as my research indicated it would be better for Landscapes. I've seen the Olympus PEN E-PL9 (same spec as E-M5 Mk 3) is down to £399.97 in Currys and I thought I could buy an addition zoom lens with the left-over money. Anyone have any thought? or should I use the whole amount and buy a better camera?
 

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Does that have a viewfinder? I wouldn't be happy with only back screen shooting but if you're happy then you're happy :D

If you want a RF style camera with a VF maybe take a look at the Panasonic GX80.
 
There's NO viewfinder on that one, but it looks like a solid all-rounder. What is 'RF' ?
 
There's NO viewfinder on that one, but it looks like a solid all-rounder. What is 'RF' ?

Using a longer zoom on a Pen model is not ideal because of the lack of a viewfinder because holding the camera away from the body (unless precautions with the type & configuration of the strap used) will not be well balanced!

RF ~ that to me is short for Range Finder.,.....maybe only photographers of a certain age will have used RF cameras back before digital was not even a twinkle in its inventors eye :lol:
 
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There's NO viewfinder on that one, but it looks like a solid all-rounder. What is 'RF' ?
I couldn't recommend a camera without viewfinder - problems taking pictures in bright light, balancing with a longer zoom, difficulty composing. Buy a used E-M5II.
 
I agree about the viewfinder as I do a lot of photos in Greece and I do actually struggle sometimes using the screen in the sunshine. looks like its the GX80 then, now where to find one in the nice brown colour ? :runaway::runaway:
 
Sorry, RF does indeed mean range finder but in this case it's not actually a range finder but just in the style of as many people use RF style as a bit of shorthand for having the evf in the corner rather than in the middle like an SLR.

PS.
I have a GX80 and I think it's a decent camera. It has a 16mp sensor and the performance is ok. The evf is probably one of the less good ones in use on new cameras today but people not as finicky as me will probably be perfectly happy with it. It is quite a compact camera.

Among others I have this lens...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-...words=panasonic+14-42mm&qid=1591446554&sr=8-4

It's tiny, light and sharp enough wide open. I also have the tiny 45-200mm but mostly I tend to use primes. All my primes are Olympus, I have the 17, 25 and 45mm f1.8's. For a really nice camera and lens package the Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 is nice but it is more expensive and bigger than that tiny and capable 14-42mm.
 
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I agree about the viewfinder as I do a lot of photos in Greece and I do actually struggle sometimes using the screen in the sunshine. looks like its the GX80 then, now where to find one in the nice brown colour ? :runaway::runaway:


I do most of my photography on Crete these days (or would, if we could get there!!!) and really wouldn't suggest anything without some sort of viewfinder rather than using the rear screen. Quite apart from being able to see the screen in Mediterranean sunshine (you can't...), I also have a slight problem in that I wear contact lenses and unless I faff about finding reading glasses, I can't focus on the rear screen.
 
Some cameras come as a kit with a lens. Does this one?

If you just get the camera and need to buy a lens separately see my recommendation above.
 
That's not a lens I could live with as as far as I know it doesn't have a focus ring and if you want to focus manually you have to do so with a sliding scale on the back screen. That's fine if you're going to rely on auto focus all the time or don't mind using a scale on the back screen but I think I'd drop kick it over a hedge after 5 minutes. I'd recommend selling that lens and buying a conventional lens with a focus ring.

There are times when I want to manually focus, for example auto focus can focus on the wrong thing in several situations such as when taking pictures through glass, fencing or foliage or even in snow or I suppose rain even and if the background or foreground has more contrast than your subject, in short any situation in which your subject may be partially obscured by other things or if there are things around your subject that the auto focus may decide to focus on.
 
It's automatic and manual zoom adjustment only. Its also out of stock :crying:
 
I did seriously consider the Olympus OM-EM10 M3 too :D

One advantage of the Olympus cameras is that the image stabilisation is in the body (so any lens you fit will be stabilised) while Panasonic have it in the lens (so stabilisation only happens for panny lenses). My wife has an E-M10 MkI, bought as a replacement for a TZ80. Image quality was a lot higher than the compact while physical size with the pancake zoom is only a little larger.

In your situation with £600-£700 to spend I'd probably look for an E-M5 MkII with used warranty from a shop: i.e.
https://www.parkcameras.com/p/SH-38...AWIN&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=724241
or
https://www.parkcameras.com/p/SH-87...AWIN&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=724241

A 14-150 II zoom as a replacement for the flexibility you had with the bridge camera:
https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equi...us-m-zuiko-ed-14-150mm-f-4-5-6-ii/sku-964804/
or
https://www.harrisoncameras.co.uk/p...4-56-ii-micro-four-thirds-lens_used-ac7250549

and perhaps a panasonic 25mm f1.7 for when you needed a faster lens in low light:
https://www.harrisoncameras.co.uk/pd/used-panasonic-25mm-f17-lens-micro-four-thirds_used-xa7da101863
or
https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Panasonic-25mm-f1.7-Asph_275443.html

Note that all M43 lenses fit all camera bodies.

But it's easy for me to spend your money - you need to feel happy with what you get. :)
 
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I did seriously consider the Olympus OM-EM10 M3 too :D
Ok so here’s what I’d buy:-
Olympus OMD EM5-II £339 used like new
Olympus 14-42mm II R £69 used like new
Olympus 40-150mm F4-5.6 R £109 used like new.

And then when you’ve saved a bit more the Olympus 45mm f1.8 £149 used like new.

Just for the record m4/3 isn’t any better for landscape than APS-C, both can take superb landscapes,.. in the right hands.
 
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