What no jeremy cobyn thread?

RedRobin said:
Treating The House of Commons Question Time as if it was a public radio phone-in was ridiculous and extremely irresponsible in its time wasting.
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Yeah, it was terrible how he asked valid questions about government policy. Imagine trying to hold HMG to account on issues that affect and concern the public!
Doesn't he know the point of PMQs is to shout and holler like baboons, throw insults at each other than go and have a huge boozy lunch?

If we want to talk about time wasting, how about recalling parliament to eulogise a divisive former PM?

If we want to talk about irresponsible, how about putting a tax break in the Finance Bill purely as a pretext to make a cheap joke about the Leader of the Opposition's physical appearance?

Corbyn isn't the saviour of British politics. But to suggest he's any worse than the rogues gallery of recent history is myopic at best.
 
RedRobin said:
I don't think that Jeremy Corbyn is as honest and straight talking as he claims to be. I have noticed that in many interviews he totally ignores some direct questions and they're not silly questions either. Sure, all politicians appear to not answer a question but usually do answer it even if it involves talking a lot about the broader aspects first, or taking the opportunity to snipe at their opposition party on the way to giving an answer. Corbyn rudely ignores many questions outright. I find him devious and humourless and he behaves as if he was a messiah - Just because he has the same JC initials as Jesus Christ doesn't mean he can behave as if he is able to walk on water.

Treating The House of Commons Question Time as if it was a public radio phone-in was ridiculous and extremely irresponsible in its time wasting. Regardless of whether I agree with his policies or not, I don't see him as a dignified representative of Britain in international affairs. Anyway, we'll see how the cookie crumbles.
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Well I found prime minister's questions quite refreshing. Far better than the previous claptrap. And his general behaviour on answering questions is far more honest and upfront than we've seen from virtually any current politicians whatever their party. And to the best of my knowledge I don't think he's ever claimed to be able to walk on water! :p
 
Llamaman said:
Yeah, it was terrible how he asked valid questions about government policy. Imagine trying to hold HMG to account on issues that affect and concern the public!
Doesn't he know the point of PMQs is to shout and holler like baboons, throw insults at each other than go and have a huge boozy lunch?

If we want to talk about time wasting, how about recalling parliament to eulogise a divisive former PM?

If we want to talk about irresponsible, how about putting a tax break in the Finance Bill purely as a pretext to make a cheap joke about the Leader of the Opposition's physical appearance?

Corbyn isn't the saviour of British politics. But to suggest he's any worse than the rogues gallery of recent history is myopic at best.
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....LOL :D

When you have an open discussion scenario such as in The House of Commons it is inevitable that voices are raised to be able to be heard and to emphasise points about which the MPs representing the people feel passionately. The bantering etc is healthy and is better than what otherwise might degenerate into physical brawling. Besides which, it's often entertaining.

If you think that the Tories are rogues, then fair enough but I don't. They're not perfect but no-one is. However, Corbyn fills me with contempt. :)
 
bindex said:
And to the best of my knowledge I don't think he's ever claimed to be able to walk on water! :p
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....Agreed - Corbyn hasn't claimed he can walk on water but behaves as if he can. :)
 
Llamaman said:
A general election doesn't reflect how party members think.
New Labour's triumph was convincing the same people who backed Kinnock to adopt a more centrist position. But a crushing election defeat (especially in Scotland) has seen them return to the comfort of the left.
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... and defeat in the last general election.

Most people who decided to vote preferred a stance right of centre.
 
RedRobin said:
If you think that the Tories are rogues, then fair enough but I don't.
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I wasn't just limiting it to the Tories. Saw Jack Straw the other day (he lives near me) - I resisted the urge to heckle as he was with his family.
But I'll also give just one example of poor Tory behaviour - Ms May deliberately misrepresenting (that's 'lying' in non-Westminster speak) a specific residence claim in order to make an invalid political point. Even her own cabinet colleagues (Ken Clarke) admitted she was telling lies.

RedRobin said:
They're not perfect but no-one is.
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Oink oink.

RedRobin said:
However, Corbyn fills me with contempt. :)
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Strong words. I'd rather have a sincere, but misguided politician (Corbyn) than a scoundrel (Farage) or a zealot (half the Greens and SNP).
 
rjbell said:
Did they? Last I looked less than half did.
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Yet 20% more votes then the next nearest party ;) whose members are behaving disgustingly in Manchester, spitting and threatening conservative conference goers. Even rape threats. What is wrong with them. Yet Corbyn and the unions see it fit to go there and address that rude unruly crowd.
 
kendo1 said:
I seem to remember New Labour being voted in- probably because the people thought their policies were what they wanted.
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Nope, New Labour got voted in because the country had enough of the vile and constant sleaze and the in-party arguments within the Tory party. They managed to stay in power for a further 3 terms because the electorate could'nt bring themselves to vote Tory again, New labour were close enough politically, but after a while they clocked onto the right wing B.S. of Tory Bliar and ousted them at the next election.Simple as.
 
dejongj said:
Yet 20% more votes then the next nearest party ;) whose members are behaving disgustingly in Manchester, spitting and threatening conservative conference goers. Even rape threats. What is wrong with them. Yet Corbyn and the unions see it fit to go there and address that rude unruly crowd.
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As reported by The Mail,The Express and Sky news.......say no more.
 
dejongj said:
Yet 20% more votes then the next nearest party ;) whose members are behaving disgustingly in Manchester, spitting and threatening conservative conference goers. Even rape threats. What is wrong with them. Yet Corbyn and the unions see it fit to go there and address that rude unruly crowd.
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Less than 5% in actual votes but as mentioned above with fptp it means nothing.
 
dejongj said:
members are behaving disgustingly in Manchester, spitting and threatening conservative conference goers. Even rape threats.
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So, not at all like the treatment progressive MPs like Stella Creasy got (for daring to suggest a woman on a banknote wouldn't be the worst thing in the world)?

Strange how some things are only bad when 'leftists' do it?
 
mex said:
Nope, New Labour got voted in because the country had enough of the vile and constant sleaze and the in-party arguments within the Tory party. They managed to stay in power for a further 3 terms because the electorate could'nt bring themselves to vote Tory again, New labour were close enough politically, but after a while they clocked onto the right wing B.S. of Tory Bliar and ousted them at the next election.Simple as.
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Have it your own way if that is what you believe.


I suspect that voters voted the way they wanted to, as I did.
 
mex said:
As reported by The Mail,The Express and Sky news.......say no more.
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Isn't it amazing how easily people get sucked in and so willingly swallow the propaganda, and truly incredible how little critical thought some people possess.
 
mex said:
As reported by The Mail,The Express and Sky news.......say no more.
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Rapscallion said:
Isn't it amazing how easily people get sucked in and so willingly swallow the propaganda, and truly incredible how little critical thought some people possess.
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Perhaps some people don't read those newspapers and have actual direct experience, but please don't let that possibility get in the way of your prejudices ;)
 
Llamaman said:
So, not at all like the treatment progressive MPs like Stella Creasy got (for daring to suggest a woman on a banknote wouldn't be the worst thing in the world)?

Strange how some things are only bad when 'leftists' do it?
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Who says that wasn't bad? It was terrible behaviour by those internet trolls.

There is a big difference though in the context, situation and location. This is a party conference, and the leader of the opposition is joining in this protest. Unless I'm mistaken the tories didn't do that to Stella Creasy. The leader of the opposition has to tell his troops to not spit, how civilised and embarrassing. It just highlights the difference between those fit to govern and those who are just anti everything....It will cost them dearly and they should be ashamed.
 
dejongj said:
Yet 20% more votes then the next nearest party ;) whose members are behaving disgustingly in Manchester, spitting and threatening conservative conference goers. Even rape threats. What is wrong with them. Yet Corbyn and the unions see it fit to go there and address that rude unruly crowd.
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dejongj said:
Perhaps some people don't read those newspapers and have actual direct experience, but please don't let that possibility get in the way of your prejudices ;)
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What prejudice? Let the facts speak for themselves:-

UKoEf5a0lg-1200x1200.png
 
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Rapscallion said:
UKoEf5a0lg-1200x1200.png
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Yup, all part of the operation and tactics to defuse the situation...Aligned with the very number of arrests to avoid full scale riots...It was not the time and place, especially not for the leader of the opposition.
 
dejongj said:
Unless I'm mistaken the tories didn't do that to Stella Creasy.
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They said that, as a woman who didn't have children, she wasn't fit to be an MP.

Feminism the Tory way!
 
dejongj said:
Yup, all part of the operation and tactics to defuse the situation...Aligned with the very number of arrests to avoid full scale riots...It was not the time and place, especially not for the leader of the opposition.
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Now who's showing a prejudice?! No matter what is shown you will attribute the fault to Corbyn. I have this amusing image of you ranting at Corbyn when you lose your keys!
 
On a very different slant, it is rather disturbing to see police snipers on the rooftops during a political party conference, a sad part of modern day life.
 
Rapscallion said:
Now who's showing a prejudice?! No matter what is shown you will attribute the fault to Corbyn. I have this amusing image of you ranting at Corbyn when you lose your keys!
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You've got a very odd way of interpreting what I am saying. You think it is normal and statesman like to spoil the governing party conference by addressing a protest? And in contrast, he didn't exactly set the world alight last week at his own conference.

mex said:
On a very different slant, it is rather disturbing to see police snipers on the rooftops during a political party conference, a sad part of modern day life.
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A very said state of affairs indeed that it is required, and labour dares to call the Conservatives the nasty party? Then again, not an unusual protocol for protection of the Prime Minister of this country....As a more moderate interpretation ;)
 
Llamaman said:
They said that, as a woman who didn't have children, she wasn't fit to be an MP.

Feminism the Tory way!
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That is a bit disingenuous of you, that is not what she said. She, Molly, was drawing a comparison between candidates as can be seen in the picture in the article attached...


http://labourlist.org/2015/04/tory-...stella-creasy-for-not-being-a-wife-or-mother/

Unless I'm missing some other juicy stuff I think that is a pretty fair and factual comparison. It is up to the electorate to choose what they value more and who they find more representative. And the public has chosen that they prefer Stella which is fair enough. I do not see that as the same thing as spoiling a party conference with blessing from the leader of the opposition.
 
dejongj said:
That is a bit disingenuous of you, that is not what she said.
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It is exactly what is being inferred.
The poster makes no reference to policies and is a purely personal attack.
It is very clear that it is saying being a mother makes you a better MP/person than someone who is not.
It is exactly the kind of personality-driven, policy-absent crap that turns voters off and leads to divisive politics based around point scoring rather than serving the electorate.
 
Llamaman said:
It is exactly what is being inferred.
The poster makes no reference to policies and is a purely personal attack.
It is very clear that it is saying being a mother makes you a better MP/person than someone who is not.
It is exactly the kind of personality-driven, policy-absent crap that turns voters off and leads to divisive politics based around point scoring rather than serving the electorate.
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Not sure how this is the same as the abuse hurdled by the rent-a-mob crowd in Manchester, but regardless of that I disagree. But maybe it is a cultural difference, in advertising in many other countries it was normal to compare two brands, the UK has always had an issue with that....I have no problem with it, and what Molly did. Now what the other internet trolls did is inexcusable in my opinion.
 
I've not read through most of this, but I will say it's an interesting time in politics and like him or lathe him their is far more discussion at present.

For all the he'll never get in, I'm not so sure. I posted earlier in the thread I thought he was hopeless on question time when I saw him, but his different approach is refreshing.

It will be interesting how he deals with the inevitable compromises he will have to get into to. You can keep your views without breaking from the opposition backbenches easily, a lot harder to do when leading your party. He seems at present to be saying he will lead by consensus, which seems unlikely to work but as I say interesting times ahead.

As for his PM questions I thought it was a great way to start and quite clever, much harder to ignore a question from the public.
 
dejongj said:
Not sure how this is the same as the abuse hurdled by the rent-a-mob crowd in Manchester,
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You were making a point about respect (or lack of it) from politicians towards their rivals, so the comparison is valid.

dejongj said:
in advertising in many other countries it was normal to compare two brands,
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But the comparison would be of details relevant to the consumer's choice, such as efficacy or price, not the family life of the factory workers.
If Persil ran an advert saying 'don't buy Daz, it's made by gingers', it would be considered pretty poor form. But saying 'don't vote for her, because she's childless' is OK?
 
Llamaman said:
You were making a point about respect (or lack of it) from politicians towards their rivals, so the comparison is valid.


But the comparison would be of details relevant to the consumer's choice, such as efficacy or price, not the family life of the factory workers.
If Persil ran an advert saying 'don't buy Daz, it's made by gingers', it would be considered pretty poor form. But saying 'don't vote for her, because she's childless' is OK?
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How many times on here isn't the argument put forward that one cannot know what it is like. Or being accused of being out of touch. This is no different. Just look at the children at the zoo and photography thread. Experiences can, don't have to but can, form the viewpoint of human beings. I see no issue with that.
 
I notice the tory shills are now hounding the Police regarding the handling of the crowd at the conference today.

Louise Mensch has been "at it" all day on Twitter (nothing new there) but refreshingly, a Policewoman has been giving back as good as she gets. It's well worth a look. :)

www.BANNED/DC_Cartwright

Edit: she's now "locked" her account (this usually happens because "shills" mass-report an account to try and get it closed down).
 
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ZoneV said:
I notice the tory shills are now hounding the Police regarding the handling of the crowd at the conference today.

Louise Mensch has been "at it" all day on Twitter (nothing new there) but refreshingly, a Policewoman has been giving back as good as she gets. It's well worth a look. :)

www.BANNED/DC_Cartwright
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You do realise that is a factoid character from a TV show ;) If there is a real DC behind that persona hmmmm breaks a fair few policies.
 
ZoneV said:
Psst. You don't have to use your real name on the internet. :)

You don't think my real name is ZoneV, do you? :D
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Yup, but just making up a pretend character doesn't make you an expert either, yet people fall for it all the time.
 
I had a wonder in to Manchester on Saturday, I forgot the tory party was in town..... :ROFLMAO:
Was hardly the rent-a-mob crowd. Police and protesters getting on fine. Quite a lot of people were buying drinks, haribo and biscuits for the police.

Like I mentioned above in all highly charged political protests you will get a few bad eggs but from what I saw 99.99% were fine, even the police I spoke to would agree.
 
For anyone to turn up en masse and in protest outside the party conference of a rival is very bad form indeed in my opinion, but I am not surprised by such behaviour from Corbyn and his mob whether behaving peacefully or otherwise. What was the purpose? To protest that a conference was being held?

Corbyn clearly has no respect for the UK Parliamentary system, neither for the monarchy. I wonder how he will behave as a member of The Queen's Privy Council. His antics so far are at least entertaining although verging on being treasonous.
 
eeyore said:
Like I mentioned above in all highly charged political protests you will get a few bad eggs but from what I saw 99.99% were fine, even the police I spoke to would agree.
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And I doubt the masked gap-year anarchists could name any of the shadow cabinet. They're not there to support Corbyn or socialism (the anarchist flags are a bit of a giveaway).

And the Tories using teenage activists as agent provocateurs is pretty pathetic as well. No-one looks good in this.
 
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