What no jeremy cobyn thread?

andyscott said:
The monarchy is hugely important, even if you disregard all of the powers (and yes she does have a few) Remember the PM has to ask her permission to form a government, she has to open parliment etc etc.

The soveriegn brings in a huge amount of income to the country, and makes a lot more than they cost.
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The Monarchy is not important. The UK is a de-facto republic. The monarchy could be removed tomorrow from all it's political roles and not a bit of difference would be made beyond the ceremonial.

I really do despise this faux patriotism that has proliferated through the UK. Poppy Fascism, the union flag draped around everything, and now this anthem fascism. The British national anthem is outdated and non-representative of the UK. It's theistic and pro-monarchy. Any principled republican and athiest should be allowed to sit it out without being haranged by the media and public.
 
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A ceremonial Monarchy with no ties to the workings of government would remain able to promote tourism for those who are wowed by an elite section of society born into privilege who provide no ACTUAL purpose. It's absolutely absurd that people still have deference to these people...
 
rjbell said:
Well this is a whole other argument. I would beg to differ.
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Yup. People who say this always conveniently leave out certain costs, like security detail for royal visits, while assuming that people wouldn't visit the many British estates and attractions without the existence of a Monarchy; "What there's no Monarchy?!? No way am I visiting the Tower of London now."
 
decigallen said:
I really do despise this faux patriotism that has proliferated through the UK. Poppy Fascism, the union flag draped around everything, and now this anthem fascism. The British national anthem is outdated and non-representative of the UK. It's theistic and pro-monarchy. Any principled republican and athiest should be allowed to sit it out without being haranged by the media and public.
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Its not facist in the slightest, at it is totally representative of the UK.
 
Steve Smith said:
Not always. I don't think it's that important. No one whose funeral I have been to whilst not wearing a tie would have cared. Ties are the most ridiculous item of clothing ever.


Steve.
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No thats a Gillet ;)

Or button flies on Jeans
 
ghoti said:
Nobody suggests anything about respect or superiority? Really? Apart from half the country lambasting Corbyn for not singing a sycophantic song about her? And the fact things like "royal protocol" exist?
If you think the queen is just a person, deserving of no special respect, great, I agree. But you can't seriously be suggesting that "nobody" thinks the queen is especially important?
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Right you are mixing up various references in the posts now. It is very hard to have a discussion when you shift goal posts like that.
 
andyscott said:
Its not facist in the slightest, at it is totally representative of the UK.
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Tell that to Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish people - the song itself actually has a go at the Scottish. It also invokes the Christian 'God' so isn't representative of atheists or those who don't believe in a Christian God. Finally, those who are Republican will have issue with it.

And it is fascist. The idea that Corbyn can't abstain from singing it is authoritarian, right-wing and intolerant b******t - the very definition of fascism.
 
Llamaman said:
The bit about Scotland isn't!
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Wrong. We voted to remain part of the Union, therefore it's as representative here as much as anywhere else.
 
andyscott said:
So you do sometimes, its about the people you are wearing it for, not your own beliefs
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No. It's about the relatives and friends of the people whose funeral it is. If I think I would offend them by not wearing one, I probably would. It's still a ridiculous thing though.


Steve.
 
BRASH said:
Wrong. We voted to remain part of the Union, therefore it's as representative here as much as anywhere else.
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So unrepresentative of 45% of Scottish people. And unrepresentative of the 40% or so of Northern Irish republicans. And many Welsh are non too fond of it either.
 
decigallen said:
Tell that to Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish people - the song itself actually has a go at the Scottish. It also invokes the Christian 'God' so isn't representative of atheists or those who don't believe in a Christian God. Finally, those who are Republican will have issue with it.

And it is fascist. The idea that Corbyn can't abstain from singing it is authoritarian, right-wing and intolerant b******t - the very definition of fascism.
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Good grief:rolleyes:. Typical pinko, leftie intolerance of anything but their own beliefs. Did somebody mention fascism?

Ah well, just as well I'm proud to be a white, working class, homophobic, nazi, fascist, misoginistic, chauvinist, royalist, racist and any other phobic/ist a label can be attached to then.
 
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decigallen said:
So unrepresentative of 45% of Scottish people. And unrepresentative of the 40% or so of Northern Irish republicans. And many Welsh are non too fond of it either.
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You need to get your head round democracy.
 
I think the queen is bloomin great and will admit to being a real lover of the royal family. If old grey miserable corby doesn't want to sing thats upnto him. He will have to do far more distacefull things as leader of a near death political party in the future.
 
Mr Bump said:
I think the queen is bloomin great and will admit to being a real lover of the royal family. If old grey miserable corby doesn't want to sing thats upnto him. He will have to do far more distacefull things as leader of a near death political party in the future.
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I think he's as irrelevant as his party has become.
 
BRASH said:
Good grief:rolleyes:. Typical pinko, leftie intolerance of anything but their own beliefs. Did somebody mention fascism?

Ah well, just as well I'm proud to be a white, homophobic, nazi, fascist, misoginistic, chauvinist, royalist, racist and any other phobic/ist a label can be attached to then.
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Oh please, save your rhetorical nonsense for the Daily Mail comment section.

I FULLY respect the right of anyone to choose TO sing the national anthem, or choose NOT to sing it without reprimand or harrassment based on their PERSONAL beliefs. That is my belief. I oppose intolerance and support freedom of choice and expression. A lot of people died for me (and Corbyn) to have that right.
 
decigallen said:
Oh please, save your rhetorical nonsense for the Daily Mail comment section.

I FULLY respect the right of anyone to choose TO sing the national anthem, or choose NOT to sing it without reprimand or harrassment based on their PERSONAL beliefs. That is my belief. I oppose intolerance and support freedom of choice and expression. A lot of people died for me (and Corbyn) to have that right.
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I've never read the Daily Mail in my life, in fact gave up reading tabloids many, many years ago.

As for people giving up their lives for our freedoms, we'd do well to remember that as many of them will be turning in their graves.
 
BRASH said:
I've never read the Daily Mail in my life, in fact gave up reading tabloids many, many years ago.

As for people giving up their lives for our freedoms, we'd do well to remember that as many of them will be turning in their graves.
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And many won't.
 
BRASH said:
I've never read the Daily Mail in my life, in fact gave up reading tabloids many, many years ago.

As for people giving up their lives for our freedoms, we'd do well to remember that as many of them will be turning in their graves.
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Why can't people get their head around the fact that that's irrelevant?

I can have total respect for my war hero grandad without worrying that he'd 'turn in his grave' because I'm not a fan of the monarch. Why would that be an issue? If his wife (who I also dearly loved) is anything to go by, he was probably a casual racist too. Should I be a racist to stop him turning in his grave?

And why can't people understand that 'daily mail comment section' is shorthand for a set of political beliefs and has nothing to do with the purchase of a newspaper (in fact 'comment section' refers to the opposite of a physical newspaper).
 
BRASH said:
Wrong. We voted to remain part of the Union, therefore it's as representative here as much as anywhere else.
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So you think that the majority of Scottish people are in favour of the National anthem encouraging us to crush rebellious Scots?
 
As an atheist, I don't believe anyone is turning in their graves anyway - literally or metaphorically.
 
BRASH said:
many of them will be turning in their graves.
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No they won't. They're dead.

We shouldn't judge previous generations by the standards of today, and likewise today's generation should not be judged by the standards of the past.
 
BRASH said:
I am aware of the anti Scots sentiment. Flower of Scotland has the same. No big deal really.
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No big deal at all... unless you're the person the song is referencing.

And flower of Scotland doesn't urge the country to Crush the English now does it? And the song isn't supposed to be representative of the UK as a whole either.
 
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Llamaman said:
No they won't. They're dead.

We shouldn't judge previous generations by the standards of today, and likewise today's generation should not be judged by the standards of the past.
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Or in Heaven or come back as a butterfly or caterpillar, I fancy coming back as a squirrel.
 
Phil V said:
Why can't people get their head around the fact that that's irrelevant?

I can have total respect for my war hero grandad without worrying that he'd 'turn in his grave' because I'm not a fan of the monarch. Why would that be an issue? If his wife (who I also dearly loved) is anything to go by, he was probably a casual racist too. Should I be a racist to stop him turning in his grave?

And why can't people understand that 'daily mail comment section' is shorthand for a set of political beliefs and has nothing to do with the purchase of a newspaper (in fact 'comment section' refers to the opposite of a physical newspaper).
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1) everything is irrelevant apart from your (collective) views.

2) broader picture than the wording of the NA or whether one is a fan of the monarch or not.

3) racist has nothing to do with it but in your inimitable way you have managed to squeeze that in

4) the daily mail comment has no relevance to me as I've never read it an know nothing of the 'shorthand' terminology but thank you for educating me.
 
I wonder if he his going to support England in the Rugby World Cup

presumably there are some kind of reasons why he shouldn't on ground of race, nationalism, women rights, prejudice, gay and lesbians or whatever or whatever ... and maybe because it's Rugby Union not Rugby League

why does he get so serious about some of the ceremonial stuff mentioned in here - it is all about people, the economy, quality of life, the health service, the environment and dare I mention it defence ..... many other stuff that will be chipped in by

If he does not support England in the World Cup, (Rugby of course), I will never forgive him ........

I have just asked the oracle, my wife, she said "of course he will, no politician would be that stupid, (not to)" ...... and there lies a problem?
 
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Llamaman said:
No, it just makes a big deal about their one (temporary) victory. Bless. :exit:
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Yes an we should be thankful because we now have the Union.
 
BRASH said:
1) everything is irrelevant apart from your (collective) views.

2) broader picture than the wording of the NA or whether one is a fan of the monarch or not.

3) racist has nothing to do with it but in your inimitable way you have managed to squeeze that in

4) the daily mail comment has no relevance to me as I've never read it an know nothing of the 'shorthand' terminology but thank you for educating me.
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So, for fun, tell me why there's any relevance to my long dead grandad whether or not I'm a Monarchist.

No deflection, just an answer.
 
BillN_33 said:
I wonder if he his going to support England in the Rugby World Cup

presumably there are some kind of reasons why he shouldn't on ground of race, nationalism, women rights, prejudice, gay and lesbians or whatever or whatever ... and maybe because it's Rugby Union not Rugby League

why does he get so serious about some of the ceremonial stuff mentioned in here - it is all about people, the economy, quality of life, the health service, the environment and dare I mention it defence ..... many other stuff that will be chipped in by

If he does not support England in the World Cup, (Rugby of course), I will never forgive him ........
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Who me? I'd watch chess if the English were getting beat but then I am a racist and xenophobic.
 
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