What no jeremy cobyn thread?

Phil V said:
Not that far, if you read what the 'expert' said after he'd been misquoted by the Sun.
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You'll have to help me out here, I googled and failed :) which expert got misquoted?

The words are quite clear of what he has to agree to. Unless perhaps he can do a "respectful silent" agreement ;)
 
Llamaman said:
They don't actually wipe the monarch's arse anymore...
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I was hoping for a serious and constructive response.

I've got nothing against republicans, I think the process/tradition is fundamentally flawed as it basically eliminates a republic from ever taking up office if they remain true to what they support. To me that surely can't be right in 2015, plotting against the monarchy in an open non aggressive and legal manner should be allowed. So to me if he just goes along with it, just like he avoided the issue with his lack of singing then it will never change. This is his moment to make a real difference in the opposition and he doesn't seem to be taking it.

Furthermore silly things like this have totally overshadowed his TUC speech which actually should be much more important. This man needs a spin doctor, or let's call him an adviser to stop him from making beginner mistakes.
 
dejongj said:
I was hoping for a serious and constructive response.

I've got nothing against republicans, I think the process/tradition is fundamentally flawed as it basically eliminates a republic from ever taking up office if they remain true to what they support. To me that surely can't be right in 2015, plotting against the monarchy in an open non aggressive and legal manner should be allowed. So to me if he just goes along with it, just like he avoided the issue with his lack of singing then it will never change. This is his moment to make a real difference in the opposition and he doesn't seem to be taking it.

Furthermore silly things like this have totally overshadowed his TUC speech which actually should be much more important. This man needs a spin doctor, or let's call him an adviser to stop him from making beginner mistakes.
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It's a tricky one, his 'charm' is based on the fact that there is no 'spin', but that also plays straight into the hands of his opponents.
 
dejongj said:
A bit disappointing how quickly he moves his principles aside. Sure it is the practical thing to do for the team, but for someone who fought his campaign on principles it doesn't bode well.
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dejongj said:
He will join Her Majesty's council, have to go down on one knee and kiss her hand whilst agreeing to:

You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done or spoken against Her Majesty's Person, Honour, Crown or Dignity Royal.

Ok he hasn't done that yet, but would be rather hypocritical considering his stance regarding the monarchy, hypocritical but also deceitful unless he now all of a sudden supports the monarchy. I would have more respect if he stuck to his word and refused and forced the issue.
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Phil V said:
He's sworn allegiance to the queen for every year he's been an MP, it's hardly a change of heart, just something the media have picked up on.

Again, I'm not his apologist, but smears by the right wing media should be questioned rather than swallowed whole.
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dejongj said:
Sure but the privy council goes well beyond that.
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Phil V said:
Not that far, if you read what the 'expert' said after he'd been misquoted by the Sun.
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dejongj said:
You'll have to help me out here, I googled and failed :) which expert got misquoted?

The words are quite clear of what he has to agree to. Unless perhaps he can do a "respectful silent" agreement ;)
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Phil V said:
Huff Post?
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I think you've misunderstood my point. I was quite clear about the council and did not reference the money at all. Your "expert" from the huffington post seems to agree with that.
 
Phil V said:
It's a tricky one, his 'charm' is based on the fact that there is no 'spin', but that also plays straight into the hands of his opponents.
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I don't think it plays into his opponents, it does a disservice to his own message. Likewise with being "respectfully silent", I would belief it and respect it if he was without spin and just said that he doesn't belief in the monarchy and refuses to sing those words. Absolutely fine and then there is no spin.
 
Just one question, Cobyn - what colour poppy will he be wearing at the cenotaph if at all ?
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Just one question, Cobyn - what colour poppy will he be wearing at the cenotaph if at all ?
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Whos Cobyn, is it his evil twin, but shorter :)

Why wouldn't he wear a poppy, red or white?
 
jakeblu said:
Whos Cobyn, is it his evil twin, but shorter :)

Why wouldn't he wear a poppy, red or white?
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Well he's a known pacifist. They advocate the wearing of white poppies don't they !

He didn't sing the National Anthem at the 75th Battle of Britain service yesterday. His views on his dislike for the Monarchy have already been detailed on here.
 
At least JC did'nt make himself look a complete prick like John Redwood managed to. I am sorry but I fail to what the big deal is with JC not singing the British anthem, lets be fair, at football matches and elsewhere it is actively boo-ed..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc
 
Like his straight talking or not, the fact is that politicians get judged daily by the media (ie milliband and the bacon sarnie). Maybe it's just Eary days but a couple of contradictions don't help (benefit caps).
 
mex said:
At least JC did'nt make himself look a complete prick like John Redwood managed to. I am sorry but I fail to what the big deal is with JC not singing the British anthem, lets be fair, at football matches and elsewhere it is actively boo-ed..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc
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Maybe it's because you've never served in the Armed Forces or sworn an Oath of Allegiance to the Crown? Everybody that has, and there are many feel differently.

This was the 75th Battle of Britain anniversary after all. JC was representing the Labour a party. There is a big difference between this event and a sports match !

Personally I'm not bothered about football matches, it's a tradition but let's face it Rooney is too thick to even know the words or can't be bothered to learn them.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Maybe it's because you've never served in the Armed Forces or sworn an Oath of Allegiance to the Crown? Everybody that has, and there are many feel differently.

This was the 75th Battle of Britain anniversary after all. JC was representing the Labour a party. There is a big difference between this event and a sports match !

Personally I'm not bothered about football matches, it's a tradition but let's face it Rooney is too thick to even know the words or can't be bothered to learn them.
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I saw nothing disrespectful from JC,he simply chose not to sing? John Redwood was representing the government at the time and would have done well to have followed the same tact as JC. I totally agree with Rooney though!
 
Corbyn at an "anti-war" rally in 2009:
"It will be my pleasure and my honour to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I also invited friends from Hamas to come and speak as well.....

Says it all really this man is dangerous. What World or European leaders are going to take him seriously.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Well he's a known pacifist. They advocate the wearing of white poppies don't they !

He didn't sing the National Anthem at the 75th Battle of Britain service yesterday. His views on his dislike for the Monarchy have already been detailed on here.
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That's just media [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] though (a complete non questioon for the unthinking), insisting that people only fit into little boxes so that people with small minds can understand the story.

I generally consider myself a pacifist, but I am very proud of my Grandad who I never met as he died in the war, and in his memory and the memory of many others who served I wear a red poppy.

As an aside, I appreciate that the Queen has done her bit for the country, but a monarchy isn't something I'm a particular believer in, if we could find a way to respectfully move on to being a proper democracy, that'd be great too. But I'm not in favour of publicly beheading them all. Again; a bit too complicated an issue for a typical Sun headline.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Corbyn at an "anti-war" rally in 2009:
"It will be my pleasure and my honour to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I also invited friends from Hamas to come and speak as well.....

Says it all really this man is dangerous. What World or European leaders are going to take him seriously.
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Bombing the f*** out of them isn't really working.
dejongj said:
I don't think it plays into his opponents, it does a disservice to his own message. Likewise with being "respectfully silent", I would belief it and respect it if he was without spin and just said that he doesn't belief in the monarchy and refuses to sing those words. Absolutely fine and then there is no spin.
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As I said above regarding my own views - there's a subtle but very real difference between not really being in favour of a Monarchy and not respecting the status quo. I'd be happy with a government of any persuasion looking to modernise the way we are governed, I don't have strong feelings about our present Queen, but to hand power to the inbred nincompoop she'll be replaced with? It might be time for a change.
 
Phil V said:
That's just media b****x though (a complete non questioon for the unthinking), insisting that people only fit into little boxes so that people with small minds can understand the story.

I generally consider myself a pacifist, but I am very proud of my Grandad who I never met as he died in the war, and in his memory and the memory of many others who served I wear a red poppy.

As an aside, I appreciate that the Queen has done her bit for the country, but a monarchy isn't something I'm a particular believer in, if we could find a way to respectfully move on to being a proper democracy, that'd be great too. But I'm not in favour of publicly beheading them all. Again; a bit too complicated an issue for a typical Sun headline.
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It's not [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] Phil, he's stated it ! I'm all for peace too but the reality is I've never known it in my lifetime.

I don't read the Mail,The Sun or the Leftie Guardian come to that. Some people either get it or they don't, but that's ok. That's democracy in action. People will vote with their feet when the time comes. He's not doing Labour any favours at all and this will play right in the hands of other parties.
 
Phil V said:
I don't have strong feelings about our present Queen, but to hand power to the inbred nincompoop she'll be replaced with? It might be time for a change.
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How much power does the monarch actually have? I'm not challenging you on this, I just don't know and I'm curious.

I'm pretty indifferent to the whole idea of the royal family too.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
It's not b****x Phil, he's stated it ! I'm all for peace too but the reality is I've never known it in my lifetime.

I don't read the Mail,The Sun or the Leftie Guardian come to that. Some people either get it or they don't, but that's ok. That's democracy in action. People will vote with their feet when the time comes. He's not doing Labour any favours at all and this will play right in the hands of other parties.
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But the point of the post I was referring to is [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER], it's quite possible to both be a pacifist and wear a red poppy. it's a non issue important only to people who can't understand shades of grey.

though the ad skimming made me smile - I wish it was more predictable
 
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MartynK said:
How much power does the monarch actually have? I'm not challenging you on this, I just don't know and I'm curious.

I'm pretty indifferent to the whole idea of the royal family too.
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Our government represent us with the permission of the Monarch, our current Queen has been very good at being Apolitical (apart from when Cameron told the world she was pleased at the Scottish referendum result).

However every act of Parliament has to be approved by an unelected bunch of in-breds and political lickspittles in the House of Lords, before then getting Royal Assent.

So our democratically elected representatives need the permission of the Queen to make any decisions. She is effectively and officially 'above the law', as I say I'm not particularly 'anti Royal', but being governed by someone granted her powers by God doesn't really sit with my sense of fairness and justice.
 
dejongj said:
I think you've misunderstood my point. I was quite clear about the council and did not reference the money at all. Your "expert" from the huffington post seems to agree with that.
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Could you clarify your point JP?
 
dejongj said:
I was hoping for a serious and constructive response.
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In OOF? o_O

The official line is that Parliament is Sovereign. It isn't, because if you don't swear allegiance to the Queen, you don't get in. Parliament is inherently subservient to the Monarch, which is why Sinn Fein have never taken up their seats.

So, a Republican has one of two choices - a small amount of hypocrisy (taking the oath) and try to change the system from within, or bloody revolution.
Given the choice, I prefer the former, and am pleased Corbyn does too.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Corbyn at an "anti-war" rally in 2009:
"It will be my pleasure and my honour to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I also invited friends from Hamas to come and speak as well.....
Says it all really this man is dangerous. What World or European leaders are going to take him seriously.
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Was John Major 'dangerous' for speaking to the IRA?
 
I always thought that wearing a white poppy still allowed you to show respect for those that gave the ultimate sacrifice but still allowing for your pacifist beliefs, a compromise if you like. I certainly don't see it as disrespectful, neither does the royal legion.

From wikipedia

The Royal British Legion has no official opinion on the wearing of white poppies, stating that it "is a matter of choice, the Legion doesn't have a problem whether you wear a red one or a white one, both or none at all".

Personally I never sing the national anthem because like many others I prefer not to sing to a person, thats a personal choice and i have no problems with those that do. But, you would probably get a better rendition of the NA if it were a tune extolling the virtues of the country such as Elgar's pomp and circumstance march no1, although being an anti-imperialist that doesn't appeal to me either :)
Blank_Canvas said:
Maybe it's because you've never served in the Armed Forces or sworn an Oath of Allegiance to the Crown? Everybody that has, and there are many feel differently.
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Not sure about Nigel, who this comment was aimed at, but I haven't served in the armed forces, well unless you count the army cadets :) Still my son has, Royal Engineers with two tours of Afghanistan. I was there when he swore the oath of allegiance, it was one of the proudest days of my life but not because of the oath.
 
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The RBL have been asked twice if they would make white poppies and twice they have had said no.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
The RBL have been asked twice if they would make white poppies and twice they have had said no.
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I'm sure if I asked them to make me a soufflé they'd probably say no to that as well.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Almost certainly! , but then again they don't have soufflé factory do they. Just a poppy factory !
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And adding an extra product line, then making sure it gets added to every box, then working out how to deal with left over poppies of either colour if they get the mix wrong... will all cost money which as a charity they can ill afford to waste.
But you miss the point - just because they choose not to make it, doesn't mean they disapprove. They just choose not to make them.
You can infer all you like from a manufacturing decision, but their explicit statement on the matter is more informative.
 
Anyway, the fact that JC should be singing the national anthem (as agreed by his own party) has now been addressed. He will be doing it from now on. In addition, he won't be wearing any white poppies at the cenotaph either so he won't offend anyone.
 
Llamaman said:
And adding an extra product line, then making sure it gets added to every box, then working out how to deal with left over poppies of either colour if they get the mix wrong... will all cost money which as a charity they can ill afford to waste.
But you miss the point - just because they choose not to make it, doesn't mean they disapprove. They just choose not to make them.
You can infer all you like from a manufacturing decision, but their explicit statement on the matter is more informative.
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No, you miss the point, that may be the official stance from the RBL but the the RBL members which make up the membership disagree with the white poppy. Ipso facto.

Unless you are actually a member of the RBL (as I am) or have taken part in the internal members surveys and read the results and comments of its members you will never really know the true feelings that run very deep. The red poppy is a symbol of remembrance and also the logo of the RBL.
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
Corbyn at an "anti-war" rally in 2009:
"It will be my pleasure and my honour to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I also invited friends from Hamas to come and speak as well.....
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Its accepted that no Middle East peace is possible without those groups. Dangerous man or chap who wants to find genuine solutions to the issues that work?
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Anyway, the fact that JC should be singing the national anthem (as agreed by his own party) has now been addressed. He will be doing it from now on. In addition, he won't be wearing any white poppies at the cenotaph either so he won't offend anyone.
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I'm sure those that have decided a priori to be offended will find a reason. Maybe his shoelaces will be disrespectful. Can hair be treasonous?
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Are yes the quotes !

Didn't Corbyn once state that he would "like to assassinate Margret Thatcher" !

No need to reply to that one it's recorded for prosperity.
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I would have liked to assassinate Maggie, unfortunately the queue, had the opportunity arrisen, would have been far too long.
 
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