What no jeremy cobyn thread?

The funny thing is that for once we have a more mature debate here on TP :) there is still hope.
 
rjbell said:
Can we put Blair in trial?
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For what? Further more parliament should not interfere with justic in my opinion. So no :)
 
Does anyone remember a discussion from a while back. This was about a reporter and I think Margaret Beckett iirc. That reporter was so right to ask why she nominated a person she didn't support herself. I bet she is kicking herself now for nominating him.

I see yvette cooper has now joined the anti Corbyn rethoric.
 
Wow 150,000 registered in 24hr.
 
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Yes a nice little earner for them ;)
 
dejongj said:
I see yvette cooper has now joined the anti Corbyn rethoric.
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I hope he does well. Atleast as far as I can see he's just stood by his principles. I don't agree with all of them, but atleast he's standing by them. I do agree when he say the current behaviour devalues the political process though. Ms Cooper et al. haven't actually managed to play the ball yet. Just the man. If that indicates what the alternatives are then he deserves to win.
 
The guardian have just announced they are backing Yvette.
 
The Labour Party MPs seem to lack any appropriate self awareness - they keep referring to it as 'our party' and saying things like 'we won't let people take over our party'. Yet it is not their party, they are there to represent the members who constitute the party. Its the same ego/sense of entitlement through government as a whole, where MPs seem to forget they are not there as rulers telling the population what to do, but are actually there as representatives of their employers (the voting population of the UK)

I have signed up to vote for Corbyn as I am sick of all the establishment entitlement. I am also tired of all the news articles and comments by has-been politicians, both elements thinking its ok to treat the population like brain dead fools that its ok to patronise and verbally abuse (get a heart transplant, people don't understand what they are voting for etc). I am tired of the lack of respect towards normal people from those paid on our tax payroll.

Further up the post someone said that they did not understand why people ignored the broken promises of the Conservatives. I think it is because all parties now lie to get voted in and then go back on what they said very promptly. People get ground down by it happing every time and by having no real protest vote outlet as we are almost a 1 party state. Corbyn has rocked that cosy little nest for the MPs and their families and all those who feed of having handy political connections. I think its the same with the other 3 Labour contenders - they too will lie about who and what they are to get elected - they are either pretending to be a left party but will continue with the present right wing agenda they have been following, or they will pretend to be right wing and deceitfully swing back if elected. I want an honest politician who says what s/he intends so I can vote with accuracy and not have my vote wasted by liars with snouts in the trough.

I so hope Corbyn wins, as UK politicians need to understand they are not born to rule and parachute their kids, friends and relatives into cushy unassailable and well paid safe havens for life, while the rest struggle even for health care and places to live.
 
MidnightUK said:
The Labour Party MPs seem to lack any appropriate self awareness - they keep referring to it as 'our party' and saying things like 'we won't let people take over our party'. Yet it is not their party, they are there to represent the members who constitute the party. Its the same ego/sense of entitlement through government as a whole, where MPs seem to forget they are not there as rulers telling the population what to do, but are actually there as representatives of their employers (the voting population of the UK)

I have signed up to vote for Corbyn as I am sick of all the establishment entitlement. I am also tired of all the news articles and comments by has-been politicians, both elements thinking its ok to treat the population like brain dead fools that its ok to patronise and verbally abuse (get a heart transplant, people don't understand what they are voting for etc). I am tired of the lack of respect towards normal people from those paid on our tax payroll.

Further up the post someone said that they did not understand why people ignored the broken promises of the Conservatives. I think it is because all parties now lie to get voted in and then go back on what they said very promptly. People get ground down by it happing every time and by having no real protest vote outlet as we are almost a 1 party state. Corbyn has rocked that cosy little nest for the MPs and their families and all those who feed of having handy political connections. I think its the same with the other 3 Labour contenders - they too will lie about who and what they are to get elected - they are either pretending to be a left party but will continue with the present right wing agenda they have been following, or they will pretend to be right wing and deceitfully swing back if elected. I want an honest politician who says what s/he intends so I can vote with accuracy and not have my vote wasted by liars with snouts in the trough.

I so hope Corbyn wins, as UK politicians need to understand they are not born to rule and parachute their kids, friends and relatives into cushy unassailable and well paid safe havens for life, while the rest struggle even for health care and places to live.
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That's pinko hippy talk!
I agree with every word.
 
Flipping heck, this is getting worse and worse, are they doing this on purpose to make certain Corbyn wins?


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...-jeremy-corbyn-win/ar-BBlIQSk?ocid=spartandhp

What a bunch of arrogant t***s. Sure they can have a voice as well, but openly scheming and manipulating is disgusting to watch. I'm hoping the labour supports give them a good message and have an overwhelming majority support for the guy...
 
I agree.

I also hope the Tory grandees have the good sense not to be quietly sniggering up their sleeves.

They might be in for a surprise.
 
I agree, the other parties should learn from this and not take it lightly. This public mood is not unique to Labour at all in my opinion.
 
MidnightUK said:
The Labour Party MPs seem to lack any appropriate self awareness .... it is not their party, they are there to represent the members who constitute the party ..... MPs seem to forget they are not there as rulers telling the population what to do, but are actually there as representatives of their employers (the voting population of the UK) ..... I am sick of all the establishment entitlement ..... all parties now lie to get voted in and then go back on what they said very promptly ..... Corbyn has rocked that cosy little nest for the MPs and their families and all those who feed of having handy political connections ..... I want an honest politician who says what s/he intends so I can vote with accuracy and not have my vote wasted by liars with snouts in the trough
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Excellent post, well argued.

I disagree with you in the sense that I think Corbyn's policies would be a disaster for the country. But I totally agree with your observations about politics and the political process. And I admire and respect Corbyn, even though I disagree with his policies. We could do with more people like him across the whole political spectrum.
 
dejongj said:
Flipping heck, this is getting worse and worse, are they doing this on purpose to make certain Corbyn wins?


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...-jeremy-corbyn-win/ar-BBlIQSk?ocid=spartandhp

What a bunch of arrogant t***s. Sure they can have a voice as well, but openly scheming and manipulating is disgusting to watch. I'm hoping the labour supports give them a good message and have an overwhelming majority support for the guy...
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I didn't realise you could do that. Well i'll be voting corbyn and no one else.
 
rjbell said:
I didn't realise you could do that. Well i'll be voting corbyn and no one else.
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That's my intention too. There's no obligation to vote any of the others at all. The same goes for the deputy leader vote as well although I have a couple of choices I'll make there. But for the leadership vote only 1 entry for me. I certainly don't want my vote passed on to any of the other leadership candidates! It'd be good to see Labour go back to its core principles of justice and fairness for all.
 
I wonder if the Conservatives have stopped laughing yet. The way this election for the Labour leader has been handled is a farce.

Rather than saying that anyone who was a Labour Party member at the time Ed Millband stood down could vote, they say, "Bung us a few quid and you can have a vote" and don't realise some folks might try to sway the outcome.
Something that annoys many voters is one party has a go at an opposing party rather than saying what they would do themselves, but then the some of the candidates in the leadership election do exactly the same thing! Though I note on the news on Radio 4 just now that Andy Burham is distancing himself a little from the 'anyone but Corbyn view'.

I'm not having a go at Labour, I'm a Labour supporter but this is a mess.

Dave
 
dejongj said:
hat a bunch of arrogant t***s. Sure they can have a voice as well, but openly scheming and manipulating is disgusting to watch. I'm hoping the labour supports give them a good message and have an overwhelming majority support for the guy...
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I agree.

I assume that if or as looks likely when Corbyn does win then his rivals will respect the wishes of the party and get behind their newly elected leader and not allow their own petty squabbles to mire the party, preventing there from being a decent opposition at all this parliament
 
Tringa said:
I wonder if the Conservatives have stopped laughing yet. The way this election for the Labour leader has been handled is a farce.

Rather than saying that anyone who was a Labour Party member at the time Ed Millband stood down could vote, they say, "Bung us a few quid and you can have a vote" and don't realise some folks might try to sway the outcome.
Something that annoys many voters is one party has a go at an opposing party rather than saying what they would do themselves, but then the some of the candidates in the leadership election do exactly the same thing! Though I note on the news on Radio 4 just now that Andy Burham is distancing himself a little from the 'anyone but Corbyn view'.

I'm not having a go at Labour, I'm a Labour supporter but this is a mess.

Dave
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He was just on Jeremy Vines. He sure has changed his tune! This guy changes his mind/views like the weather. Everything he says he seems to constrict himself. He gets tripped up in every interview i've seen so far.
 
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I think Burnham has seen which way the wind is blowing and is angling for the role of 'middleman' in the ensuing Labour divide. A Gordon Brown if you like, except this time the reformers and traditionalists have swapped roles.
The others - Cooper in particular - have burnt their bridges now - they won't be in the shadow cabinet and will have to content themselves sniping from the backbenches waiting for a chance to coup.
 
rjbell said:
He was just on Jeremy Vines. He sure has changed his tune! This guy changes his mind/views like the weather. Everything he says he seems to constrict himself.
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That's one of the reasons I really can't go for Burnham. It reminds me of a joke by Marx (Groucho not Karl) who told of a politician at the end of a long speech stating "these are my principles... but if you don't like them... I have others"
 
Calm down! calm down! it's OK everyone, Gordon Brown is going to make a speech tomorrow in which he will set out how all Labour members will get full autonomy, devomax and vouchers for Greggs if they vote no to Jeremy Corbyn.

Sorted.
 
Steep said:
Calm down! calm down! it's OK everyone, Gordon Brown is going to make a speech tomorrow in which he will set out how all Labour members will get full autonomy, devomax and vouchers for Greggs if they vote no to Jeremy Corbyn.

Sorted.
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We can scoff (quite rightly) at the promises Brown made in that speech, but in terms of passion and delivery it was the best performance I'd ever seen him give. If he'd shown a bit more of that in government he might not have polled so badly.
Compare it with Cameron's embarrassing "I'm really fired up" speech in this campaign, which was about as sincere and genuine as Donald Trump's hair.

Hopefully Corbyn's success can reignite some passion in our politics - and by passion I don't mean "I hate you because you're in a different party" of the American type, but passion of a genuinely held conviction, eloquently argued.
I'm probably dreaming, but we can try. Ultimately we get the politicians we deserve, so it's up to us to make this happen.
 
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crofter said:
Back to the sixties then,it was f*****g great................not.
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What do they say? if you remember it, you wasn't there ;)

dejongj said:
Flipping heck, this is getting worse and worse, are they doing this on purpose to make certain Corbyn wins?
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I think its called politics ;)
 
Tringa said:
Rather than saying that anyone who was a Labour Party member at the time Ed Millband stood down could vote.....
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That's a very good point.

It would have been totally logical, and easily justifiable, for the vote to be restricted to those who were members at the time the position became vacant. A bit like the way that companies only pay dividends to people who held shares on a particular date, not those who bought them after the dividend announcement.
 
RufusG said:
Is it me, or does Corbyn stand out head and shoulders above most other politicians in the limelight (not least Mrs Balls, the other Blairite lady and Andy Burnham) in being considered, straightforwards and having some conviction, rather than just swaying whichever way public feeling is judged to be heading? Integrity is the word which comes to mind, in the same way it does whenever I see John Major interviewed, or David Davies.
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Rufus what a great name! Its what I called my boy :).
Not many around. You're the first I've encountered.
 
Well Kezia (Deputy) Dugdale is the 'new' leader in Scotland, I suspect she'll only last until next years defeat at the polls.
 
Llamaman said:
We can scoff (quite rightly) at the promises Brown made in that speech, but in terms of passion and delivery it was the best performance I'd ever seen him give. If he'd shown a bit more of that in government he might not have polled so badly...
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It became old fashioned to be principled and passionate in politics in the 80's. leading us to the professional 'politicians' we've got stuck with. I think we can thank Nigel Farage for reintroducing personality into the mix.
Llamaman said:
... which was about as sincere and genuine as Donald Trump's hair...
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Made me laugh out loud
 
Phil V said:
It became old fashioned to be principled and passionate in politics in the 80's. leading us to the professional 'politicians' we've got stuck with. I think we can thank Nigel Farage for reintroducing personality into the mix.
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I think half of Farage's 'personality' is an act, and his 'principles' entirely fake.
But he is at least entertaining.
 
Llamaman said:
I think half of Farage's 'personality' is an act, and his 'principles' entirely fake.
But he is at least entertaining.
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I think all his personality is an act...

But he made people realise that the Westminster bubble had become unsustainable. Which is ironic, because he's a public school educated ex-banker professional politician taking advantage of the EU gravy train (who was) employing his foreign wife to make up a very decent income. I think he did brilliantly putting on an anti EU 'man of the people' façade in light of that. But succeed he did, and he managed to convince the English that he was the genuine alternative to the Westminster elite. Meanwhile in Scotland, the same chickens were coming home to roost, but this time with a Nationalist badge and an anti-austerity message. Once the UKiP voters realise it's not the immigrants but the bankers that are bleeding them dry, there's a chance for some new thinking in British politics.
 
Did anyone's see the academic endorsement for corbyn today? Nice do see professors in the field who have been largely ignored by both parties. Corbyns vision doesn't have to be back to the 70s ideas and mistakes.
 
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Any links? I didn't come across any of that.
 
dejongj said:
And it is the same old same old. Why not focus on positive messages of how good alternative candidates are instead of reiterating the message of how bad this choice would be.

Is it just me, or would people rather hear why to vote for someone opposed to this constant why not to vote for someone.
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Exactly that. I have much more respect for someone who tells me why they are the best choice over someone who tells me someone else's faults.

In fact, when they are in the same party, they should be supportive of each other, even in competition for leadership as their core values should be the same. Otherwise, one of them is in the wrong party.


Steve.
 
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