What New Scanner

CockneyViking

CockneyViking

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Patrick
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I have about 2000 negatives I would like to scan. The big question is what scanner to use? I bought a Canon 5600 with a 6 negative carrier and came to the conclusion it is slow and the images are not that good. I am thinking of spending between £200 and £500. The main considerations are:

  1. The best speed I can get for the money... so potentially a Canon 9000 Mk2 might be a good choice as it has a 12 Negative Carrier which means it could be effectively twice as fast as the 5600 ... (Although could I get a 12 carrier and software to go with it for the Canon 5600 ??)
  2. Some of the negatives are slightly damaged showing white spots and what looks like white fibres. I am pretty sure the negatives are scratched or poorly developed so the surface is damaged. Would software like Epson's Kodak ICE, Canon's or anyone else's equivalent software automatically remove the blemishes or would I have to man up for many long Photoshop sessions?
  3. Would a dedicated negative Scanner like an Plustek OpticFilm 8200i AI improve the quality of the images or speed of the operation significantly? I can the see carrier might be less fiddly and save and few seconds per scan but would the image quality be any better?
Would be delighted to hear from anyone with a relatively new Canon 9000, Epson (600/700/750) or Plustek 8200SE AI .
 
I've moved this to film and conventional, as you're more likely to get a better response in here.
 
1. Speed and quality are two things which don't really go together, you generally get one or the other.

2. Digital ICE will only work with colour negatives or transparencies (but not Kodachrome) as B&W absorbs the IR light which picks up the dust/scratches. The effectiveness of the removal does also massively depend on the scanner, take a look at in depth reviews.

3. A dedicated scanner will give you much better quality from 35mm, but I would look at the similarly priced/slightly more expensive Reflecta Proscan 7200 rather than the Plustek as it is massively faster for the same resolution/detail (to get the maximum resolved detail out of the Plustek you have to scan at the maximum 7200 dpi, which obviously takes a long time per scan, but that only actually resolves ~3300 dpi so the files are needlessly bloated. The Reflecta on the other hand gets about the same resolved resolution when scanning at its maximum of 3600 dpi, and much faster) and the Digital ICE is way more effective according to in depth reviews. See these reviews of the two models to see what I mean:

Reflecta Proscan 7200: http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaProScan7200.html

Plustek 8200i: http://www.filmscanner.info/en/PlustekOpticFilm8200i.html

My Reflecta gives very good results, and I would thoroughly recommend one to anyone looking for a dedicated scanner. The only slight downside is that the included Cyberview software sucks so factor in the cost of getting Vuescan (~£50) as well to get the best out of it. Another thing you could consider would be picking up a Nikon Coolscan or similar which has a automatic feed as that will speed things up a bit. Generally their a bit above your budget, but they hold their value very well and you can be near guaranteed to get back what you paid for it if you sell it afterwards.

If you've got that many scans to do, have you considered getting a service to do it for you? There are quite a few services that will do a high quality job for a reasonable sum with professional scanners, and it'll save you the job of doing the scanning (which can get very tedious and time consuming).
 
The Epson V500 is a great scanner and as for speed just buy a spare film carrier as i have then you can load the next set and get a good workflow.

What kind of scanners could folk recommend for upgrading from my Epson 4490 (V500) but needs to do medium format?
 
Mr Bump said:
The Epson V500 is a great scanner and as for speed just buy a spare film carrier as i have then you can load the next set and get a good workflow.

What kind of scanners could folk recommend for upgrading from my Epson 4490 (V500) but needs to do medium format?
Click to expand...

Why do you need to upgrade?
Is it too slow? Not sharp enough?
 
robhooley167 said:
Why do you need to upgrade?
Is it too slow? Not sharp enough?
Click to expand...

@robhooley167 I would like a little more detail as I have now bought an A3 printer and want to get the best from my negs 35mm and MF.

Speed not an issue
 
Mr Bump said:
@robhooley167 I would like a little more detail as I have now bought an A3 printer and want to get the best from my negs 35mm and MF.

Speed not an issue
Click to expand...

V500 will scan fine to A3 size, it's more to do with film selection and devving, scanning workflow and processing than the scanner hardware.
The V500 is a very capable bit of kit and you'd have to spend a lot more on top to get a significant amount of improvement - looking at drum scanners and pro flatbeds sort of level.
Have you considered the "betterscanning" kit for the V500 which holds the film flat to keep sharpness constant throughout the frame?
I have no experience of dedicated film scanners so I'll leave them to someone else.
 
I do get realy good scans from the V500 to be fair i thik its a great unit.
@PMN told me the best optical DPI it can do is 2400dpi and for the MF stuff thats pretty impressive.

its more the 35mm i would explore a dedicated unt.
 
Mr Bump said:
I would like a little more detail as I have now bought an A3 printer and want to get the best from my negs 35mm and MF.
Click to expand...

Not to be blunt (even though I will be :p) but I know you're nowhere near getting the max quality from the V500 yet. Also as you keep changing cameras every 48 seconds you're probably not quite getting the best out of the camera yet either. :D

Seriously, learn the proper ins and outs of what you have first before upgrading because if you don't you'll probably be disappointed by your new toys. I've said this many times before about film, digital, playing musical instruments, mixing bands and everything else I screw up on a regular basis - there's no short cut to getting it right, it takes time. If you're not getting the best out of the gear you have now then there's absolutely no way you'll get the best out of higher end gear because the gulf between your knowledge and what the unit is potentially capable of is much bigger. Learn what you have properly and you'll probably be surprised by how good the results can be, especially on medium format.
 
The Plustek scanners offer good performance (apart from the caveat that Sam mentioned), but speed of scanning is going to be hampered by having to manually advance each frame through the scanner. The actual scan doesn't take very long (no longer than the flatbed scanners), but the advancing adds to the tedium of it all.
 
robhooley167 said:
Yeah, but what does he know? :p
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True:meh: :indifferent:

Im off into Leeds tomorrow to meet the wife for lunch and a pleasant afternoon with beer and a trip to west yorkshire cameras to see Nick @retrogamer1990 to do some fondling
 
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coool well drop me a text, i will have my FM2 in me bag nowt else.
probly wandering in and meeting wifey bowt 1pm

there will be beer
 
PMN said:
I'll be working for the most part then meeting a non-photographer mate for a bit, what kind of time will you be around until?
Click to expand...

probably till 4-5pm ish
 
Some interesting replies and a dilemma here ... it looks like the best results come from the Reflecta and Protek but the feed is one at a time which would make the exercise pretty tedious. Plus the Reflecta is a good bit of kit let let down by the accompanying software.
The temptation for a flat bed and just to let a dozen negatives brew is so tempting .....
 
I actually don't mind scanning, I get into a nice routine of scanning and posting tosh and/or pish on TP.....perfect.
 
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Andysnap said:
I actually don't mind scanning, I get into a nice routine of scanning and posting tosh and/or pish on TP.....perfect.
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Well it's a lot easier than doing colour prints with chemicals...first I used to print in B\W to see if the shots were any good Yanno things like e.g. did the model blink during the shot etc then boring chemical printing and any mistakes and expensive paper was ruined......I just can't go back to those days.
 
Getting all our Nikon stuff out and ready for you @Mr Bump I'll be sure to make a huge deal about how rare and expensive your 1.4 is in front of your wife >:D
 
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retrogamer1990 said:
Getting all our Nikon stuff out and ready for you @Mr Bump I'll be sure to make a huge deal about how rare and expensive your 1.4 is in front of your wife >:D
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ha ha b*gger off i fessed up to her about it a few weeks ago :)

to be honest I have nowt in my head at the moment to look at just nice to come in and fondle(the goods) and say hello.
 
CockneyViking said:
Some interesting replies and a dilemma here ... it looks like the best results come from the Reflecta and Protek but the feed is one at a time which would make the exercise pretty tedious. Plus the Reflecta is a good bit of kit let let down by the accompanying software.
The temptation for a flat bed and just to let a dozen negatives brew is so tempting .....
Click to expand...

The next option would be the Reflecta RPS 7200 Professional as that has an auto feed for negative strips. It does however have the downside of having the same fault as the Plustek by you being forced to scan at the maximum 7200 dpi to get the max resolution of ~3800 dpi (according to test charts), but the upshot is that unlike the Plustek the scanning times are not that excessive (about 4 minutes and half minutes per neg with ICE on at 7200 dpi compared to about 9 minutes with the Plustek at 7200 dpi + iSRD [equivalent of Digital ICE]). You could always do a batch downsize in Photoshop anyway of all the scans to a more realistic size. Unfortunately it still includes the pretty useless Cyberview Software.

A review of the RPS 7200 Professional can be found here: http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaRPS7200.html
 
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PMN said:
You've seen my magic trick of making Polish beer and kebabs disappear before your very eyes, surely that counts for something? :(
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I've heard of beer made from many things, but polish seems distinctly odd!
 
Still not made a decision largely because of the enormity of the task - scanning 2/3000 negatives - and not having much idea of the quality of the hardware or software....perhaps I need to bite the bullet or go to Happy Snaps to get an idea of how many quality and speed marks I should award each of the following:

The easy mass process options { Epson V250 - which I have an idea might be NMG - not much good
Advantage: Mass Production !! { Epson V750 - could be marginally better than NMG

The better quality image options { Reflecta 7200 Proscan could take about 66 hours needing constant attention @ 0.5 per min
{ Reflecta RPS-7200 Proscan could take about 50 hrs with attention every 5 mins

Software { Koday Digital ICE
{ Silverfast SE
{ Silverfast

Thinking about it, maybe only 10% are worth keeping long term, so may be I do a quick overall job with a flatbed and a second pass with the Proscan.
 
I don't know the V250, but the V750 is quite a lot better than NMG! Certainly good enough for decent-sized prints. If I had a V750 first, I wouldn't be buying a dedicated 35mm scanner (although having bought a Plustek first, I decided not to sell it after I bought my V500).

I found the time was less of an issue with an "every 5 minutes" approach than something that is demanding attention every half minute. Basically you get on with other things and just spend a minute or so with the scanner whenever convenient. It takes longer in calendar time, but you might hardly notice the time you're spending. After a similar number of negs and slides, though, I suspect I have contributed quite a bit to the wear on the stair carpet (and maybe even kept myself fitter!).

SilverFast is very expensive, lined to exactly one scanner, and hard to get to grips with. Most folk recommend Vuescan (Pro version) which is much cheaper and will work for pretty much any scanner you have or buy in the future. And good, too.
 
CockneyViking said:
Still not made a decision largely because of the enormity of the task - scanning 2/3000 negatives - and not having much idea of the quality of the hardware or software....perhaps I need to bite the bullet or go to Happy Snaps to get an idea of how many quality and speed marks I should award each of the following:

The easy mass process options { Epson V250 - which I have an idea might be NMG - not much good
Advantage: Mass Production !! { Epson V750 - could be marginally better than NMG

The better quality image options { Reflecta 7200 Proscan could take about 66 hours needing constant attention @ 0.5 per min
{ Reflecta RPS-7200 Proscan could take about 50 hrs with attention every 5 mins

Software { Koday Digital ICE
{ Silverfast SE
{ Silverfast

Thinking about it, maybe only 10% are worth keeping long term, so may be I do a quick overall job with a flatbed and a second pass with the Proscan.
Click to expand...

I think that you are underestimating the time it will take to do this personally. I don't find any of the aforementioned scanners particularly fast and, after the initial scan, most scans will usually need some sharpening, colour balancing, and dust spotting at the very least, which I usually do in Lightroom.. This extra work isn't too bad when scanning a roll or two, but it adds up quickly when you're scanning 2,000+ images. You could turn on ICE, if the scanner you choose offers it, to control the dust, but the scan time will double, and ICE doesn't work on black and white negatives.

Basically, I think that it's going to take a long time no matter which scanner you choose if you are going down the self-scanning route.

What are you planning on doing with these negatives? If it's only for web viewing, then I wouldn't worry so much about the difference in quality between your scanner choices above.

I know that a few folks on the forum are looking for a scanner, so maybe you could make an arrangement with them? Perhaps, you purchase it and use it for a few weeks/months and then sell it on to them at an agreed price?

I'd also recommend Vuescan over Silverfast, which I find makes scanning even more difficult.
 
I like the idea of a deal with other folks. Given the range of choices I wonder how easy it would be to agree make / model. I would almost certainly sell the unit after a month.

As a test, I took some negatives to be scanned at a local Happy Snaps and got a bit of a surprise. The ones done on the Pro scanner at £15K were good at a cost of £30/100 - all marks removed and good colour. One done on an Epson V700 (aka model down from the Epson flagship V750) had marks removed but the colour was insipid and milky, I was not very impressed. One done on my ancient second hand Canon 5600 had better colour but marks not removed, so result needs Photoshop massage.

The main options I have identified are a Reflecta RPS 7200 with Silverfast AI but I cannot find one second hand which is a bit ominous - because could I sell it afterwards? Also I cannot get to see an example of a negative scanned on it.
An alternative could be an Epson V750 or V550 - or maybe a Canon 9000. Because of the lack of transparency, I cannot see a compelling case to buy any of them yet. Maybe the next step is to go on the web and return goods if they do not cut the mustard - but quite frankly I would rather find out about the quality of these products another way !!!

Perhaps I should drop Reflecta a note to suggest in the land of Vorsprungderk Technik, we UK customers cannot get a demo and could they arrange it please ???? !!!
 
Just be aware that if you buy a Reflecta or an Epson for that matter and you want to use the bundled Silverfast, you'll have to get it de-registered before you can install and register it on your machine. At least that's what I had to do when I bought a secondhand Epson. Other folk may know differently though.

Also, I don't know if your archive consist of just negatives or slides as well but whatever you choose it's going to fill the long winter months and well into the summer.

It might be worth looking at a secondhand Nikon Coolscan 4000/5000 as these can be bought with an automatic slide feeder which at least releases you from some of the tedium of being tied to the scanner while it works away.

Although these are expensive it's unlikely you'll loose any money if bought sensibly on a well known auction site as they hold their value very well, you may even make a little profit.
 
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It would not surprise me if Silverfast force a re-registration or re-purchase. It will definitely take months with Silverfast, its tricky to figure out how it works first time.
I did look at a CoolScan, the thing is Nikon no longer make and supports them. So if they need to be repaired, they have to be sent to Germany ....
 
CockneyViking said:
It would not surprise me if Silverfast force a re-registration or re-purchase. It will definitely take months with Silverfast, its tricky to figure out how it works first time.
I did look at a CoolScan, the thing is Nikon no longer make and supports them. So if they need to be repaired, they have to be sent to Germany ....
Click to expand...
Tis true that Nikon no longer support the Coolscan series but Fixation still carry out repairs in the UK. I'm sure others do as well but I'm not in front of a proper computer so can't be arsed to search using my phone.
 
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