What makes the noise picked up on video? AKA Ebay trouble :(

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Leon64

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I've just reluctantly sold my Canon G6 on ebay, to fund a new camera, but the buyer is now telling me that it makes a noise that is picked up on video....I have mentioned that it will pick up some sort of noise from the camera, but he is adamant that it is a fault rather than the usual noise it should make. He says he has spoken to "a professional photographer who knows the canon G series well and the former manager of jessops camera shop" and that "They both state this camera is faulty and the fault is more than likely to be in one of its sensors." Which I find a bit suspicious as I'm pretty sure cameras only have one sensor? And I don't know if that one sensor could even be the cause of such a noise!
Any advice with dealing with this chap would be greatly appreciated, I don't want to have to issue a refund as it would cost me about £30 in ebay & paypal fees!
Many thanks
 
Ask him to return it at his cost for testing sounds like either buyer remorse or trying to offload a faulty camera both classic ebay risks. I hope you have the serial number written down this is why I always try to sell here the prices maybe lower but the level of scammers is too!

I had a similar problem after selling a ramrod 28-75mm that I knew was pin sharp on my 5d the buyer said it was soft as butter on his camera, after a long exchange he accepted that the problem was his.
 
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A 'former manager of Jessops' doesn't say much!
I think they are trying it on, not sure what the best way to deal with it is though.
 
the noise could be from the zoom or the AF but it seems the buyer has found an excuse to get a refund or a discount ( quite common on ebay ) lets face it at 640 x 480 10fps video isn't it's strong point more or less any mobile phone on the market today would better it easily
anybody with half a brain cell would not be buying that camera for it's video capabilities i would be asking how the still images turned out and reminding him youv'e sold a still camera with limited video features but to be honest if he raises a dispute you will lose
it's just the ebay way unforunatly
 
cosmicma said:
the noise could be from the zoom or the AF but it seems the buyer has found an excuse to get a refund or a discount ( quite common on ebay ) lets face it at 640 x 480 10fps video isn't it's strong point more or less any mobile phone on the market today would better it easily
anybody with half a brain cell would not be buying that camera for it's video capabilities i would be asking how the still images turned out and reminding him youv'e sold a still camera with limited video features but to be honest if he raises a dispute you will lose
it's just the ebay way unforunatly
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:agree: :(
 
Tell him to return it whereupon you will get it independently tested. If no fault found state you will be taking action to recover your expenses including the test fee, eBay fees and postage costs.

Might be enough to deter a bulls***ter, obviously no need to undertake any of the above
 
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brman said:
surely he can send you a video with said noise present? Post it here so other G6 users can comment?
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He offered but when I asked for it his response was to start the ebay refund process(!)
tijuana taxi said:
Tell him to return it whereupon you will get it independently tested. If no fault found state you will be taking action to recover your expenses including the test fee, eBay fees and postage costs.

Might be enough to deter a bulls***ter, obviously no need to undertake any of the above
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Thanks, I will do, also I hadn't thought about the test fees so will add that to my email!
 
Leon64 said:
He offered but when I asked for it his response was to start the ebay refund process(!)

Thanks, I will do, also I hadn't thought about the test fees so will add that to my email!
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I wouldn't do that, you'll get his back up and end up with a negative as well as 1/5 DSR for the transaction. It's not worth fighting over a buyers remorse cancellation, eBay treats almost every sale as a business sale (with regard to returns rights), so you'll lose in the end, even if there's nothing wrong.

Get it returned, sell it again and move on, fighting with a buyer on eBay isn't worth the stress (and you'll almost always lose in these kind of disputes).
 
Dave1 said:
I wouldn't do that, you'll get his back up and end up with a negative as well as 1/5 DSR for the transaction. It's not worth fighting over a buyers remorse cancellation, eBay treats almost every sale as a business sale (with regard to returns rights), so you'll lose in the end, even if there's nothing wrong.

Get it returned, sell it again and move on, fighting with a buyer on eBay isn't worth the stress (and you'll almost always lose in these kind of disputes).
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This I'm afraid.

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong, the best you can hope for is to keep your camera to sell again and it not to cost you.
 
Dave1 said:
I wouldn't do that, you'll get his back up and end up with a negative as well as 1/5 DSR for the transaction. It's not worth fighting over a buyers remorse cancellation, eBay treats almost every sale as a business sale (with regard to returns rights), so you'll lose in the end, even if there's nothing wrong.

Get it returned, sell it again and move on, fighting with a buyer on eBay isn't worth the stress (and you'll almost always lose in these kind of disputes).
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Disagree fight it as long and hard as you can, request samples etc etc you will almost certainly still loose but it will cost ebay time and money going through the process and sometimes sellers do win!
 
a1ex2001 said:
Disagree fight it as long and hard as you can, request samples etc etc you will almost certainly still loose but it will cost ebay time and money going through the process and sometimes sellers do win!
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And often ebay just refund the buyer (apparently from your paypal account) and you never get the goods back. (my experience as a buyer on a couple of disputes anyway.....)

I also agree with Dave/Phil. If you like a fight for the sake of it then go ahead, but if you have better things to do then just accept the return and sell your kit here rather than ebay for a better class of customer ;)

I'd say keep it polite and friendly and ask again for a video of the problem. Keeping the dialog going has to be better than forcing it to ebay to decide (as they will almost certainly side with the buyer in my experience).
 
I would fight it too, hate having the p*** taken out of me and negative feedback would be no deterrent, make the b****r work for his refund/discount
 
tijuana taxi said:
I would fight it too, hate having the p*** taken out of me and negative feedback would be no deterrent, make the b****r work for his refund/discount
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Unfortunately he (the buyer) doesn't have to fight it.
He just repeats his demand that there is a problem and he wants his money back, waits until ebay takes over, repeats the demand again and gets his money back. Job done! Or am I being unfair on the the ebay dispute system?
 
If that is the case its a pretty poor show, not having sold on eBay for years I will take your word for it.
 
tijuana taxi said:
If that is the case its a pretty poor show, not having sold on eBay for years I will take your word for it.
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This is only my experience from a couple of disputes where I was the buyer. I was frankly quite shocked at how little evidence ebay needed before ruling in my favour. I also have a friend who lost out this way as a seller. These might be unusual experiences but it has put me off selling anything high value on ebay.

EDIT: To be fair, I did also win a dispute as a seller once but in that case the buyer was stupid enough to admit in an email that the item actually worked until he messed it up so I had a pretty good case :lol:
 
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EBay will side with the buyer. Save your effort and just refund or, as has already been said, eBay will just refund them and in a lot of cases let them keep the item as well. EBay is now a nightmare to deal with as a seller.

This isn't a guess by the way, I'm a Powerseller on eBay. Over the last year you wouldn't believe how many Powerseller's have or are in the process of shutting on eBay.
 
Latest instalment! He has posted it back to me.. (he gave a tracking number so I suppose he really has)...and says these are the things I should test for:
"When checking the camera on video function the noise will be self evident on playback.
when checking the video visual quality, film something with bright horizontal lines and you will see they jump about. It is also jumpy when panning."
!
 
Am I right and thinking we are talking about a 10 year old Canon G6?

I don't know the camera but it sounds pretty normal for the video from something of that era. I wonder if the guy thought he was buying a Panasonic G6?
 
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Leon64 said:
Latest instalment! He has posted it back to me.. (he gave a tracking number so I suppose he really has)...and says these are the things I should test for:
"When checking the camera on video function the noise will be self evident on playback.
when checking the video visual quality, film something with bright horizontal lines and you will see they jump about. It is also jumpy when panning."
!
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brman said:
Am I right and thinking we are talking about a 10 year old Canon G6?

I don't know the camera but it sounds pretty normal for the video from something of that era. I wonder if the guy thought he was buying a Panasonic G6?
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The inference does seem to be that he considered the purchase a "sale or return" especially as he consulted others whom he deems to be knowledgeable on the this make & model..............as for his last added bit about the visual quality!!! New kit likely has been designed to overcome/mitigate for such things ad improve the quality i.e. older kit has limitations but then again so does modern kit.

Edit, just checked the DPreview review here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong6/2 and the max 15fps is surely relevant in regard to the buyers visual quality complaint i.e. flickering with bright horizontal lines (query frequency of strip light cycles lighting the area including reflections of them!? ~ what other scenes as such would have bright horizontal lines?) and the jumpy when panning possibly also down to the max frame rate, maybe panning too rapidly! So many posts of issues with cameras are almost always down to 'pilot error' ;) :exit::runaway:
 
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brman said:
Am I right and thinking we are talking about a 10 year old Canon G6?

I don't know the camera but it sounds pretty normal for the video from something of that era. I wonder if the guy thought he was buying a Panasonic G6?
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Yes - that's what I first told him, but according to him that was me admitting I had known it had a fault, and apparently I've been trying to "fob him off" from the beginning! He claims he was buying it to replace his Canon G5 but he's been claiming a lot of things :-S!

Box Brownie said:
The inference does seem to be that he considered the purchase a "sale or return" especially as he consulted others whom he deems to be knowledgeable on the this make & model..............as for his last added bit about the visual quality!!! New kit likely has been designed to overcome/mitigate for such things ad improve the quality i.e. older kit has limitations but then again so does modern kit.

Edit, just checked the DPreview review here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong6/2 and the max 15fps is surely relevant in regard to the buyers visual quality complaint i.e. flickering with bright horizontal lines (query frequency of strip light cycles lighting the area including reflections of them!? ~ what other scenes as such would have bright horizontal lines?) and the jumpy when panning possibly also down to the max frame rate, maybe panning too rapidly! So many posts of issues with cameras are almost always down to 'pilot error' ;) :exit::runaway:
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Thanks that's a helpful point, I'm thinking if I get it back as it was when I sent it I'll take it into wilkinsons and get them to sign something to say it's in fully working order....d' you think they would do that? And once he opens an ebay case for it do you think that would settle them?

Edit: this wilkinson, not the other one! http://www.wilkinson.co.uk
 
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Leon64 said:
Y I'm thinking if I get it back as it was when I sent it I'll take it into wilkinsons and get them to sign something to say it's in fully working order....d' you think they would do that? And once he opens an ebay case for it do you think that would settle them?

Edit: this wilkinson, not the other one! http://www.wilkinson.co.uk
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if you get it back i wouldn't waste my time i would just refund his money and move on
 
I have no idea how eBay work these issues between seller & buyer out but hope in fairness to both parties if you can get independent corroboration that it is indeed working to specification then surely that would at the very least show eBay that you were acting in good faith and kick back any fees to then seller.

I may be naïve but if eBay was being used by buyers as a resource of "sale or return" items just so they could try them out or indeed use it briefly e.g. in this case to take some pictures and then return it :( then perhaps they need a better arbitration procedure!

FWIW this is a good example of why I have only ever bought one thing off eBay some years back this being a transferable copy of PS5.5 that when upgraded to PS6 was cheaper than buying the boxed set of PS6. I would never sell or buy anything of high value or of complex nature.
 
Leon64 said:
Yes - that's what I first told him, but according to him that was me admitting I had known it had a fault, and apparently I've been trying to "fob him off" from the beginning! He claims he was buying it to replace his Canon G5 but he's been claiming a lot of things :-S!



Thanks that's a helpful point, I'm thinking if I get it back as it was when I sent it I'll take it into wilkinsons and get them to sign something to say it's in fully working order....d' you think they would do that? And once he opens an ebay case for it do you think that would settle them?

Edit: this wilkinson, not the other one! http://www.wilkinson.co.uk
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You aren't listening, eBay don't care about reports or claims it isn't faulty, you can get a report direct from Canon and they will still expect you to refund if a buyer claims some sort of issue.

By messing about with reports and arguments all you will achieve in this case is still giving a refund, and also getting a negative feedback and 1/5 DSRs (which can impact your future selling ability).

eBay seem to expect all sellers to act like business sellers these days, there is no more "No returns" for private sellers if the buyer can make up any sort of plausible problem or issue.
 
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Dave1 said:
You aren't listening, eBay don't care about reports or claims it isn't faulty, you can get a report direct from Canon and they will still expect you to refund if a buyer claims some sort of issue.

By messing about with reports and arguments all you will achieve in this case is still giving a refund, and also getting a negative feedback and 1/5 DSRs (which can impact your future selling ability).

eBay seem to expect all sellers to act like business sellers these days, there is no more "No returns" for private sellers if the buyer can make up any sort of plausible problem or issue.
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Oh well. I just figured maybe most private sellers didn't go to lengths of getting written evidence to back up what they say
 
Just got the camera back, and done a test to listen to video audio.......here it is:
Be interested to know what you all think. I would have assumed it just wasn't made primarily for video recording so it's a bit pants, which is what I told him to begin with but he didn't like that!
 
Think you need some G6 owners to comment. Perhaps a new thread with Canon G6 video quality in the title?

btw. All I can hear is some faint noise plus all I can see is some vague light brown mush. Is that really what you were videoing because otherwise something is wrong...
 
That sounds to me like it's just picking up general background noise.

I think a better test would be to film something that is making a noise and see if you can still hear the background noise.

Just out of interest,how much did you sell the G6 for? You said you stand to lose about £25-30 in ebay and paypal fees if you were to give a refund. That to me suggests a £250-300 selling price. No wonder he's not happy if he's paid that much.
 
Leon
Video from my Panasonic HC-X900m so you can do a noise comparison test. The mike on the camcorder was at max volume. If that is any help

 
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brman said:
Think you need some G6 owners to comment. Perhaps a new thread with Canon G6 video quality in the title?

btw. All I can hear is some faint noise plus all I can see is some vague light brown mush. Is that really what you were videoing because otherwise something is wrong...
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I was filming a coffee table, not necessarily in focus, just anxious to hear the infamous noise!

-Rob- said:
That sounds to me like it's just picking up general background noise.

I think a better test would be to film something that is making a noise and see if you can still hear the background noise.

Just out of interest,how much did you sell the G6 for? You said you stand to lose about £25-30 in ebay and paypal fees if you were to give a refund. That to me suggests a £250-300 selling price. No wonder he's not happy if he's paid that much.
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Ha, maths never was my strong point, sorry. I sold it for £100
 
realspeed said:
Leon
Video from my Panasonic HC-X900m so you can do a noise comparison test. The mike on the camcorder was at max volume. If that is any help

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Thanks I really appreciate that, though could you change it from private to unlisted so I can see it? ;-)
 
Leon just noticed i had not made public but now corrected. let me know if you can now see it

Ypu camera to me does seem a little noisy but the prime purpose was for still so you can't really expect the same quality noise reduction against a dedicated camcorder costing me around £900 new at the time now at about £700
 
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realspeed said:
Leon just noticed i had not made public but now corrected. let me know if you can now see it
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Thank you! the noise is much better in comparison but then as a much newer dedicated camcorder one would expect it to be I suppose
 
At least you have something to compare with now so you can decide on your dispute. if re advertised by you make it on ebay no returns bought as advertised or similar, making sure the advert is accurate. or do a buyer collects so they can test it out themselves first.

As to what I think, your buyer took a punt without checking first and so that is his problem not yours. You sold it in good faith and if not up to the buyers expectations he should have done more research first.

In this instance I am on your side

Oh by the way that camcorder does stills as well at 16mp with a built in 32gig memory and seperate SD card slot for video and or either combination or record to both. A great little camera in my opinion

Video sample

and static hand held


Stills shot example from same camcorder

 
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-Rob- said:
Just out of interest,how much did you sell the G6 for? You said you stand to lose about £25-30 in ebay and paypal fees if you were to give a refund. That to me suggests a £250-300 selling price. No wonder he's not happy if he's paid that much.
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If the seller gives a refund he won't pay the eBay final value or Paypal fees.

realspeed said:
At least you have something to compare with now so you can decide on your dispute. if re advertised by you make it on ebay no returns bought as advertised or similar, making sure the advert is accurate. or do a buyer collects so they can test it out themselves first.
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Unfortunately you can't make up your own rules for selling on eBay, writing no returns means nothing when eBay decide the buyer can return the item.
 
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I suspect the audio is an auto level system hence when filming a silence the camera is going to jack the gain up to maximum, hence the noise, just sounds like normal stuff to me. A more realistic test is someone speaking or a quiet piece of music.
 
its all a bit of a mute point
even if the camera shot perfect video with perfect audio it doesn't matter any more, you have the camera back and he will get a refund the rest won't change the result

the only thing left to consider is if he is going to leave you negative feedback
 
cosmicma said:
its all a bit of a mute point
even if the camera shot perfect video with perfect audio it doesn't matter any more, you have the camera back and he will get a refund the rest won't change the result

the only thing left to consider is if he is going to leave you negative feedback
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Not much I can do there I suppose. I sent a long email and gave him his refund, without reimbursing the return postage, so frankly I hope he'll go away now as I'm pretty fed up with the whole thing! Have scheduled the relisting to start tonight so if anybody here wants a nice condition G6..... ;)
 
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