What makes a professional photographer?

Badger UK

Badger UK

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A week or so ago, Techno Geek gave a great definition of what makes a professional photographer. He said that the difference between a pro and an amateur is ‘how sharp the images are and how sharp an image needs to be before they see the image as acceptable’.

I thought it was a great definition and very, very true.

What do you see as the defining attributes of a photographer that makes them ‘professional’?
 
The ability to remain critical of their own work, the ability to produce images to please those who would be paying them and the combined forces of a good artistic eye and a good grounding in the technical side of things...that is just my opinion.
 
Sorry for the obvious reply, but THEY get paid! I have seen incredibly brilliant work from purely amateurs on here and lousy 'professional' shots that are sold either through event/wedding photography and stuff, or on stock sites.

Call me a cynic, but when exactly do you stop being an amateur and start being a pro - when you sell your first print? When you are regularly selling work, or when its your sole source of income? :shrug: Depends on who you are asking really.
 
Badger UK said:
A week or so ago, Techno Geek gave a great definition of what makes a professional photographer. He said that the difference between a pro and an amateur is ‘how sharp the images are and how sharp an image needs to be before they see the image as acceptable’.

I thought it was a great definition and very, very true.

What do you see as the defining attributes of a photographer that makes them ‘professional’?
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I don't think thew shaprness of the images has anything to do with it. Being professional has nothing to do with photographic ability, it has everything to do with business acumen. You are a professional photographer is you can turn a regular profit from photography, nothing more, nothing less. You could be the worst photographer in the world but if people want to pay for your images you're a professional. You could be technically accomplished but having never made any money, either by choice or not, you're purely an amateur.

Far too much emphasis is placed on what a professional photographer is. Who cares? Why bother? If you're bothered by that measure it by income, if not measure it my competitions won, if not measure it by number of exhibitions staged, if not measure it by the reaction you get when you show your shots to friends and family. Until photography becomes a profession where, like doctros and lawyers, you have to be a member of a professional body to trade, the point is moot.
 
Well these threads are popping up all over the place lately aren't they. I don't think it matters one jot whether anyone calls themselves or anyone else a professional.

I suppose from the very little thought I've given it, I'd call a pro anyone who's major income is through their photography. Saying that, I suppose they could be a pro tog who also brings in 200k a year trading stocks and securities. I guess it's just someone who does regular jobs for money then.

How good they are doesn't come into it IMO, if they're bad, they're just that, a bad professional, same as any other industry.
 
Badger UK said:
A week or so ago, Techno Geek gave a great definition of what makes a professional photographer. He said that the difference between a pro and an amateur is ‘how sharp the images are and how sharp an image needs to be before they see the image as acceptable’.

I thought it was a great definition and very, very true.

What do you see as the defining attributes of a photographer that makes them ‘professional’?
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Answer in quote form:

markta said:
TheKrikkitWars said:
Professionals do it as a profession, they specialise in making money from it, hence why the events photographers who trawl school proms and uni balls, can produce results which are sometimes frankly crap and definately mass produced.

People who shoot "Pro Level" photos (right up to the level of maybe especially people like David Bailey, Lord Snowdon and Annie Leibovitz), are frequently following what is known as a vocation... They're getting paid for doing something they enjoy.

I'd like to be the latter, should I ever reach the point that I'm good enough to make a consistent profit, from my results.
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I'd go a step further and say that a pro earns a living from it, obviously with doing other things such as exhibitions etc.
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pro photo editor yes.

pro means nothing, just sounds slightly better, if you want to hire a tog, check there website or portfolio and decide if your happy with them. there are a few pros on here i would hire and a few hobbyists as well.
 
NorthernNikon said:
You obviously have an issue with this, but I fail to see why. If he takes the photos and he turns a profit, he's a professional. Simply.
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Not got an issue as such, it's like buying a cake from a shop, which tastes like sh*t and saying, the baker is a pro, just because he sells loads.

I don't think selling = pro, I think selling = good salesman. HUGE difference.

Yes Car Credit sold THOUSANDS of cars per month a few years back, nothing pro about their operation. In fact it was the exact opposite.

Gary.
 
the world is full of very talented people who struggle to make a living from the great art they produce. it's also full of untalented people making a decent living from producing cr*p.

i thought a pro was someone who made a living from what they did until i read gary's last statement, and now i'm confused
 
EdinburghGary said:
Not got an issue as such, it's like buying a cake from a shop, which tastes like sh*t and saying, the baker is a pro, just because he sells loads.

I don't think selling = pro, I think selling = good salesman. HUGE difference.

Yes Car Credit sold THOUSANDS of cars per month a few years back, nothing pro about their operation. In fact it was the exact opposite.

Gary.
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No offence Gary, but you've simply have twisted the meaning of "professional" to mean far more than it does.

Take your point about the baker, when was the last time a baker did a sales job on you? If he or she are professional, they turn a regular profit. That could be down to a whole host of reasons but none of them alter the fact that he is a professional.
 
marko400d said:
the world is full of very talented people who struggle to make a living from the great art they produce. it's also full of untalented people making a decent living from producing cr*p.

i thought a pro was someone who made a living from what they did until i read gary's last statement, and now i'm confused
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Scammers and con artists cannot fairly be called professional. If I set up a site and steal 1,000 photos and sell them, I am not a pro, I am a thief.

If I set up a car company, and sell lots of dodgy unsafe motors, and make 10 million, I am not a pro, I am a law breaking criminal deserving of a serious jail term.

If I take CRAP photos and manage to use pushy sales techniques to make a million, I am not a pro photographer, I am a potentially very good salesman.

I had the police at my door about 9 months ago as we had students selling ART for £200 a piece. Only the vulnerable were buying it. Pro artists or conmen?

Making money does not = pro, simple.

Gary.
 
hey, i thought barney had sorted this out for me, now i'm confused again :lol:
 
I think the issue here is that the term 'professional' has a number of meanings, not just those derived from it's relation to the word 'profession'.
 
shall we start a new thread called Is Gary wrong? :lol:
 
EdinburghGary said:
Scammers and con artists cannot fairly be called professional. If I set up a site and steal 1,000 photos and sell them, I am not a pro, I am a thief.
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Who's talking about scammers and theives? We're not, we're talking about photographers.

EdinburghGary said:
If I take CRAP photos and manage to use pushy sales techniques to make a million, I am not a pro photography, I am a potentially very good salesman.
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Yes you are!!! That's the whole point. You think that all professional photograhers don't have to be good sales people? Or good book keepers? Or good marketeers? Or all the other business functions they have to juggle that come with being a small set up?
 
NorthernNikon said:
I don't think thew shaprness of the images has anything to do with it. Being professional has nothing to do with photographic ability, it has everything to do with business acumen. You are a professional photographer is you can turn a regular profit from photography, nothing more, nothing less. You could be the worst photographer in the world but if people want to pay for your images you're a professional. You could be technically accomplished but having never made any money, either by choice or not, you're purely an amateur.

Far too much emphasis is placed on what a professional photographer is. Who cares? Why bother? If you're bothered by that measure it by income, if not measure it my competitions won, if not measure it by number of exhibitions staged, if not measure it by the reaction you get when you show your shots to friends and family. Until photography becomes a profession where, like doctros and lawyers, you have to be a member of a professional body to trade, the point is moot.
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Completely agree with you Northern Nikon, I think some people look too deeply into the word "professional". There are good professionals and bad professionals out there in ever walk of life from football to photography, doctors to lawyers, the plain fact remains that whether they are good or bad they still earn their living from their chosen career.
 
wtf? A professional photographer can be someone who is proficient at taking a photograph. Proficient having nothing to do with making money, but relating to someone's skill level in a particular task.
 
A professional photographer is someone who makes money from photography
some are good at this and some are poor but professionals none-the-less

Look at footballers for example, Fernando Torres and Stevie Gerrard are professional footballers and just about 2 of the best players in the World

on the other hand Titus Bramble and Djimi Traore are also 'professional' footballers - they get paid for their profession but both are *****

People who make money from pictures and work at another job are semi pro's who either don't feel confident enough to go pro or don't have the oppertunity

People who shoot a wedding for a mate who bungs them 50 quid and buys them drinks at the reception is a lucky amature who got paid for a one off

imo - of course! ;)
 
NorthernNikon said:
Who's talking about scammers and theives? We're not, we're talking about photographers.



Yes you are!!! That's the whole point. You think that all professional photograhers don't have to be good sales people? Or good book keepers? Or good marketeers? Or all the other business functions they have to juggle that come with being a small set up?
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What I am saying, a very good sales person, does not have to be a good photographer. Therefore the profession of taking a good photo need not apply, and if that is the case, said person cannot be called a professional photographer. He can maybe be called a very good salesman, who happens to sell bad photos.

Gary.
 
StevieF8 said:
A professional photographer is someone who makes money from photography
some are good at this and some are poor but professionals none-the-less

Look at footballers for example, Fernando Torres and Stevie Gerrard are professional footballers and just about 2 of the best players in the World

on the other hand Titus Bramble and Djimi Traore are also 'professional' footballers - they get paid for their profession but both are *****

People who make money from pictures and work at another job are semi pro's who either don't feel confident enough to go pro or don't have the oppertunity

People who shoot a wedding for a mate who bungs them 50 quid and buys them drinks at the reception is a lucky amature who got paid for a one off

imo - of course! ;)
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This is my take except as I hate fotball the names mean nothing.
 
The definition from some random online dictionary :lol:

Dictionary - professional - 8 entries.
1. a. - Of or pertaining to a profession, or calling; conforming to the rules or standards of a profession; following a profession; as, professional knowledge; professional conduct.

2. a. - Engaged in by professionals; as, a professional race; -- opposed to amateur.

3. Noun - A person who prosecutes anything professionally, or for a livelihood, and not in the character of an amateur; a professional worker.

4. adjective - Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession:

5. adjective - Conforming to the standards of a profession:

6. adjective - Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career:

7. adjective - Performed by persons receiving pay:

8. adjective - Having or showing great skill; expert:
 
68lbs said:
wtf? A professional photographer can be someone who is proficient at taking a photograph. Proficient having nothing to do with making money, but relating to someone's skill level in a particular task.
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No it can't. You can have a 'professional' job which relates to a certain level of craft, but you can't have a professional craftsman without the element of pay. You can of course have a craftsman do a 'professional' job without being paid if it's his hobby. but that in no means makes him a professional.
 
[S1]A professional photographer uses photography to make a living.
A professional photographer uses photography to make a living.
A professional photographer uses photography to make a living.
A professional photographer uses photography to make a living.[/S1]

So that's that, next question....please :bonk:
 
I think professional is far more about attitude than about ability.

Take a wedding tog who turns up 2 hours late and misses the bride getting ready and arriving at the church - he has no valid reason but offers to reproduce the photos at a later date. Professional? I think not!

Even if the photos he later produces are the best you've ever seen it would not be the same, there would not be everyone in the crowd that was there, the weather might be different, and more importantly it could potentially ruin your day.

Professional is about the whole package - just because tyou earn a living from it doesnt mean you are professional. Likewise there are many "amatuers" who are far more professional than so called pros.

Chris
ps i accept the example may not be the best but it was the easiest I could think of!
 
NorthernNikon said:
No it can't. You can have a 'professional' job which relates to a certain level of craft, but you can't have a professional craftsman without the element of pay. You can of course have a craftsman do a 'professional' job without being paid if it's his hobby. but that in no means makes him a professional.
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Oh no :eek: thats twice I have agreed with Northern Nikon :lol:
 
dogyakker said:
I think professional is far more about attitude than about ability.

Take a wedding tog who turns up 2 hours late and misses the bride getting ready and arriving at the church - he has no valid reason but offers to reproduce the photos at a later date. Professional? I think not!

Even if the photos he later produces are the best you've ever seen it would not be the same, there would not be everyone in the crowd that was there, the weather might be different, and more importantly it could potentially ruin your day.

Professional is about the whole package - just because tyou earn a living from it doesnt mean you are professional. Likewise there are many "amatuers" who are far more professional than so called pros.

Chris
ps i accept the example may not be the best but it was the easiest I could think of!
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Don't you love free speech :D

Agree with your post.

G.
 
NorthernNikon said:
No it can't. You can have a 'professional' job which relates to a certain level of craft, but you can't have a professional craftsman without the element of pay. You can of course have a craftsman do a 'professional' job without being paid if it's his hobby. but that in no means makes him a professional.
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Point 8 of that dictionary quotation :P
 
StevieF8 said:
imo - of course! ;)
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It's not a bad IMO though ;)

A professional photographer who isn't a good salesman (or more accurately, businessman) won't be a professional photographer very long. He'll be a photographer serving fries.
 
dogyakker said:
I think professional is far more about attitude than about ability.

Take a wedding tog who turns up 2 hours late and misses the bride getting ready and arriving at the church - he has no valid reason but offers to reproduce the photos at a later date. Professional? I think not!

Even if the photos he later produces are the best you've ever seen it would not be the same, there would not be everyone in the crowd that was there, the weather might be different, and more importantly it could potentially ruin your day.

Professional is about the whole package - just because tyou earn a living from it doesnt mean you are professional. Likewise there are many "amatuers" who are far more professional than so called pros.

Chris
ps i accept the example may not be the best but it was the easiest I could think of!
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I think this is professionalism, not being a professional imo :thinking:

There is a massive difference, although professionalism is derived from professional!!
 
NorthernNikon said:
No it can't. You can have a 'professional' job which relates to a certain level of craft, but you can't have a professional craftsman without the element of pay. You can of course have a craftsman do a 'professional' job without being paid if it's his hobby. but that in no means makes him a professional.
Click to expand...

[S1]NorthernNikon is right![/S1]
 
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