What makes a professional photographer?

Why if it's your profession in that it is how you make the money to pay the bills and how would you arbitrate who is or is not good enough to use the name?

Genuinely interested especially in light of all the talk recently about photographers having to carry ID and if licensing were to be introduced.

Still on my big fat laptop :)
 
Certainly not by labelling all who make a living out of it as professionals. Clearly from the numerous poor photographers out their the general cover term 'I am a professional photographer' isn't a true guide of their actual professional abilities.

Out of interest, what would your interest be in the ID card then, that those who claim to be professional get a special card. :D ;)
 
KIPAX said:
Thanks :(
Click to expand...

Not intending to cause offence - just brutal honesty :bonk:

It was around 17 years ago and deep in the days of film (digital 'quality' was around a mega pixel and having to cart around a briefcase of electronics/CRT monitor as well as the camera and lenses :cuckoo:

Young and stupid too...
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Out of interest, what would your interest be in the ID card then, that those who claim to be professional get a special card. :D ;)
Click to expand...

Merely academic :) I'd actually like to hear others opinions on that one because there has pretty much always been a pro/am divide in photography as long as I've been kicking about and I wondered if anyone had thoughts on if the introduction of something like ID and how it might affect them.

Personally, I think there is a big long line with a novice with a basic camera at one end and a top pro at the other and I think we all fall somewhere on that line and not always in the convenient little bins that even the manufacturers used to think we reside in. There are far more what I would term "cross over" camera around now. I think the 7D is a good example of that because it crosses several divides.

The term "photography" is also a very broad Church, I would be disappointed if I could not get a half decent portrait of someone but ask me shoot a bird in flight or a car doing 150mph?:help:
 
CT said:
If the simple definition is getting paid then you can be a professional shelf stacker.
Click to expand...

:clap: Or a professional pint puller ;)

I'm not one from the side of the fence that is satisfied with simply earning an income to justify the term. That's how cowboys and bodgers are born imho ;)

Just a few words from the ole book of words itself:

Professional:
Expert, accomplished, skillful, masterly, masterful, fine, polished, skilled, proficient, competent, able, experienced, practiced, trained, seasoned, businesslike, deft; informal ace, crack, top-notch.
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Professional:
Expert, accomplished, skillful, masterly, masterful, fine, polished, skilled, proficient, competent, able, experienced, practiced, trained, seasoned, businesslike, deft; informal ace, crack, top-notch.
Click to expand...


Hey it doesn't say 'paid' :D
 
EdinburghGary said:
Financial motivation, of course. However, I would be MUCH more motivated to bag an exceptional landscape shot than I would a family portrait. One requires more motivation (imo), and the other is far easier, with 75% of the motivation being financial gain.

Gary.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I would much rather bag a beautiful shot of a bride than a landscape shot. Part of that is down to me rarely finding myself in the right place for a beautiful landscape shot but mainly it's down to the pleasure I get from taking a beautiful shot of a bride.

i know that that picture really means something to someone, it's personal, it's a moment, and they'll be proud of it. I think it's fair to say my inexperience at landscape stuff means I'm not terribly bothered about shooting them, though I can appreciate a good 'un.

Dave
Sent from my 24" iMac.
 
IMHO if someone labels or describes themselves as a professional photographer they are trying to distance themselves from "Photographer" which is what they are or do :thinking: I believe it is an elitist term to show that they are better, more skilled, qualified etc. than just someone who takes photos ... :thinking:
 
An elitist term?

You either are one or you're not. If you don't class photography as your sole means of income you're not. If you do, you are. That's not elitist. It's just a fact.
 
Radiohead said:
An elitist term?

You either are one or you're not. If you don't class photography as your sole means of income you're not. If you do, you are. That's not elitist. It's just a fact.
Click to expand...

But why would you need to use it ...?

Other trades describe themselves without having to add Professional! The point is that people can be a photographer (without pay i.e. hobbiest) therefore the reason people put professional is to distinguish themselves from the Amateur (hobbiest)

EG:
Professional Doctor ...:suspect: can you have an amateur doctor?
Professional Barrister .... ?
Professional Bank manager ...?

It's not just photographers

EG:
Professional Artist
Professional Author
 
Interesting point.

IME it's other people that use the term 'professional' not actually the tog himself i.e. at weddings, numerous people refer to me as 'the professional' even though I would never use the term myself.

(though I hasten to add that doesn't mean I consider myself unprofessional :lol: )

Sent from my 24" iMac ;)
 
Art, Golf, Photography, Tennis, Writing

Stick professional in front of any of those and it says I do this for a living rather than just for fun :)
 
Splog said:
But why would you need to use it ...?

Other trades describe themselves without having to add Professional! The point is that people can be a photographer (without pay i.e. hobbiest) therefore the reason people put professional is to distinguish themselves from the Amateur (hobbiest)

EG:
Professional Doctor ...:suspect: can you have an amateur doctor?
Professional Barrister .... ?
Professional Bank manager ...?

It's not just photographers

EG:
Professional Artist
Professional Author
Click to expand...

It's all about context.

Here, everyone is a photographer. So the distinction may or may not be important. If I say I photograph weddings that might mean I do 4 a year and work in a bank during the week, or I might do 1 a week and no other job.

If I say to a non-photographer that I'm a photographer then the implication is that I do it for a living. If, when asked what I do, I say I'm a photographer but work in a bank then I'm being disingenuous at best.

The 'professions' such as law, accountancy, medicine are governed by Royal Charter and legally you have to be admitted by the professional bodies. That's not true of photography when anyone can try their hand.

I'm not sure why that's elitist, when you're using that term in a perjorative sense.
 
Dark Star said:
Art, Golf, Photography, Tennis, Writing

Stick professional in front of any of those and it says I do this for a living rather than just for fun :)
Click to expand...

Absolutely :) It also implies better or more skilled i.e good enough to get paid
 
Radiohead said:
It's all about context.

The 'professions' such as law, accountancy, medicine are governed by Royal Charter and legally you have to be admitted by the professional bodies. That's not true of photography when anyone can try their hand.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point :cool: and that is why I use the word elitist because it's used to describe themselves above or better than just photographer
 
Splog said:
Exactly my point :cool: and that is why I use the word elitist because it's used to describe themselves above or better than just photographer
Click to expand...


Above or better, or just different?

I don't class myself as better than any amateur by default. Some yes, some no.

And good enough to keep getting paid. It's easy enough to get paid once.
 
Dark Star said:
Art, Golf, Photography, Tennis, Writing

Stick professional in front of any of those and it says I do this for a living rather than just for fun :)
Click to expand...

Add that their a wizard/wizardess at it to boot and I agree.

I don't understand how elitism can be appropriatley associated with professionalism.
I can't find any relations to elitism in my hero's, I look up to them, want to learn from them and continue to be inspired and influenced by them.
I earn a living as a photographer but do not consider myself professional but it is something I aspire to be.

:Sent via carrier pigeon.
 
Radiohead said:
Above or better, or just different? .
Click to expand...

I would say it is all three!

Radiohead said:
I don't class myself as better than any amateur by default. Some yes, some no. .
Click to expand...

My posts were not aimed at you as a photographer, Just addressing the OP's question and then replying to your posts

Radiohead said:
And good enough to keep getting paid.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the selective quote! But again that is my point! Someone will see or hear professional and that will be their understanding of the photographers ability :thinking:
 
I'm not being obtuse for the sake of it :D

I've no doubt that some pros consider themselves better, and are elitist. At the end of the day though, if you can earn your living doing it and keep doing that, you can't be too bad.
 
Some very interesting views, judging by the posts I am a professional photographer. Photography is my main source of income, I have pictures regularly in the newspaper and I have prints for sale in a local shop.

But I would say I am an amateur.................... go figure.
 
AliB said:
Merely academic :) I'd actually like to hear others opinions on that one because there has pretty much always been a pro/am divide in photography as long as I've been kicking about and I wondered if anyone had thoughts on if the introduction of something like ID and how it might affect them.

Personally, I think there is a big long line with a novice with a basic camera at one end and a top pro at the other and I think we all fall somewhere on that line and not always in the convenient little bins that even the manufacturers used to think we reside in. There are far more what I would term "cross over" camera around now. I think the 7D is a good example of that because it crosses several divides.

The term "photography" is also a very broad Church, I would be disappointed if I could not get a half decent portrait of someone but ask me shoot a bird in flight or a car doing 150mph?:help:
Click to expand...


But you do become a professional when you do portraits or weddings Ali, and to me that’s the difference, when you speak of shooting birds in flight; or fast cars with trepidation, that again reinforces that you have a professional view of professional photography. That’s the line to me, knowing what’s professional and what’s not.

I can’t say I think much of ID cards for photographer, stinks in much the same was as those checks for perverts, all slightly pointless and in-fact could be used as an advantage by those with ulterior ideas. There’s already plenty of IDs if one wants to prove whom they are.
 
ki_user said:
LMAO just watching family guy and Peter just said he 's going to become a professional fisherman, not normally funny but made me giggle after reading the posts.
Click to expand...

:lol: Well if he does? I'm sure he'll catch much bigger and better fish :D
 
ki_user said:
LMAO just watching family guy and Peter just said he 's going to become a professional fisherman, not normally funny but made me giggle after reading the posts.
Click to expand...

Watching that also. lmfao

md
 
I think Professional has come to be used with activities that began existence as hobbies or sports:

Tennis-Pro; Golf-Pro; etc...

The other professions were never something that people did for fun...surgeon, banker etc.

Using the prefix 'Professional' separates those making a living from that activity from those who still enjoy it as a leisure pastime...

That's all - there is no quantifiable increase in ability - though many I'm sure use it to imply that to potential clients...
 
Dark Star said:
Ah well - me four!

As a sideline what makes an 'amateur' photographer then ;)?

Oh damn I forgot - sent from a laptop in a comfy cottage :)
Click to expand...

Me 5

Sent for a crappy windows in't middle of the Caribbean :razz:
 
The traditional professions emerged in the C19th, and involved a strong element of social climbing. The only respectable occupations for a gentleman were the Army/Navy, the Church and the Bar. The privileged classes regarded medical practitioners (apart from those with a royal warrant), solicitors and engineers etc as little more than tradesmen. The "professional" class organised itself to increase its status, and were pretty successful, but a lot of prejudice continued to exist into the C20th - cricket was still split into gentlemen and players (professionals) until the 1930s - and the term "professional" was still considered rather derisory for a time. Various other occupations have been added to the professional list, and the social climbing process continues. After all, very few Physicians have doctorates, and most dentists and vets now call themselves "Dr" too - which wasn't the case when I was a kid.

Most of the modern professions are denominated by entry restrictions requiring tertiary education, some sort of internship, professional examinations, adherence to a professional code and registration with a governing body that has the authority to discipline and strike off practitioners.

Professional photographers are just photographers who earn their living, or most of their living, from their craft, as opposed to amateurs who take photographs because they enjoy it, and can't, or don't want to, earn money from it, IMHO. It implies a certain level of skill - not necessarily greater than many amateurs - which isn't always there, but the same is true of some practitioners in regulated professions.
 
Arkady said:
I think Professional has come to be used with activities that began existence as hobbies or sports:

Tennis-Pro; Golf-Pro; etc...

The other professions were never something that people did for fun...surgeon, banker etc.

Using the prefix 'Professional' separates those making a living from that activity from those who still enjoy it as a leisure pastime...

That's all - there is no quantifiable increase in ability - though many I'm sure use it to imply that to potential clients...
Click to expand...


I do wish we would stop calling bankers professional though ...clearly many of the big ones are far from it, professional hustlers at best I think ;) :D
 
dedication and vision

commercial sense and reinvestment protocols

no other job
 
Well I'm a very amateur amateur. I capture what I see, if I see something I like. I do so purely for pleasure.

In my minds eye, a professional photographer is someone who not only makes their living taking photographs - but also invests time/money in making sure they are offering the best possible quality of service to customers. Be that by investing in premises, equipment, staff, personal development or whatever. Is that elitist? I don't know in all honesty.


Sent from my work PC. Don't tell the boss.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top