What lights for a lastolite hilite?

[Nickyy]

Hi! I am a complete photography novice, having taken thousands of product shots for ebay reselling, on my ipad! I don’t own a camera.
I currently use a vinyl black / white reversible backdrop and 4 cheap softboxes (2 lighting the backdrop and 2 lighting the item), and then edit my either black or slightly grey-towards-the-bottom backgrounds out to pure white. This gives me better photos than most for my purposes. But it takes so long! And so it’s not sustainable. I need faster photo production.

so I thought if I got an illuminated background and thus a pure white background every time I could cut out all this time-consuming editing.

I was thinking of getting a lastolite hilite 6x7. I can light the item using my existing softboxes. But what lights do I need in the sides of the lastolite hilite?
I don’t need high end kit, I need something cost-effective that just does the job. The kit does not need to move once put up, it has dedicated studio space.

thank you for your advice!

 

[Garry Edwards]

Hi Nickyy, welcome to TP.

In photography there are always several different ways of doing things.

Personally, I take product photography very seriously, because I know from a lot of experience that when a lot of sellers are selliing the same goods online at very similar prices to each other, the only thing that makes a real difference to sales is the appeal of the photos, so time and money spent on product photography is usually well spent.

But, if you're happy with what you can achieve from your ipad then fair enough.

A Hilite does seem to be a better bet than what you're doing now and if you want to go down this route then the short answer is that any LED will produce adequate results with it, but those lights must be adjustable for power. The reason for this is that the power needs to be set to the point where the background photographs as pure white but without overdoing it - if they aren't bright enough then it will photograph as grey and if they are too bright then they will cause flare and will also eat away at any fine detail on the edge of your subjects.

But is a Hilite your best approach?
There are other ways of doing cheap product photography, including this type of light cube, which has its own lighting. They come in different makes, different sizes and different prices https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...ct-lighting-cube-life-of-photo-70x70cm-led070

I don't recommend them, but they may be worth considering for your purpose.

 

[Studio488commercial]

Hi Nickyy, welcome to TP.

In photography there are always several different ways of doing things.

Personally, I take product photography very seriously, because I know from a lot of experience that when a lot of sellers are selliing the same goods online at very similar prices to each other, the only thing that makes a real difference to sales is the appeal of the photos, so time and money spent on product photography is usually well spent.

But, if you're happy with what you can achieve from your ipad then fair enough.

A Hilite does seem to be a better bet than what you're doing now and if you want to go down this route then the short answer is that any LED will produce adequate results with it, but those lights must be adjustable for power. The reason for this is that the power needs to be set to the point where the background photographs as pure white but without overdoing it - if they aren't bright enough then it will photograph as grey and if they are too bright then they will cause flare and will also eat away at any fine detail on the edge of your subjects.

But is a Hilite your best approach?
There are other ways of doing cheap product photography, including this type of light cube, which has its own lighting. They come in different makes, different sizes and different prices https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...ct-lighting-cube-life-of-photo-70x70cm-led070

I don't recommend them, but they may be worth considering for your purpose.

Lots of other things come into play, especially if the product is a know item, a playstation is a PlayStation, many other things come into play, customer confidence in the retailer, retailers online persona, returns policy, delivery cost and options, reviews, what the retailer sells, to name a few.

 

[Studio488commercial]

If you want you product to be on perfect white from the out, then it all depends on your product, shoot through glass With a white paper roll going under the glass and behind, and blow out the paper with a couple of strobes/led, a hilite doesn’t bring much to he party really. However post production is usually always needed, it’s quicker to cut out a product than it is to try to get a perfect white background.

 

[Studio488commercial]

If you want you product to be on perfect white from the out, then it all depends on your product, shoot through glass With a white paper roll going under the glass and behind, and blow out the paper with a couple of strobes/led, a hilite doesn’t bring much to he party really. However post production is usually always needed, it’s quicker to cut out or edit a product than it is to try to get a perfect white background, which in almost all cases causes a halo or bleed of white into the product. Editing is your friend embrace it.

 

[Studio488commercial]

If you want you product to be on perfect white from the out, then it all depends on your product, shoot through glass With a white paper roll going under the glass and behind, and blow out the paper with a couple of strobes/led, a hilite doesn’t bring much to he party really. However post production is usually always needed, it’s quicker to cut out or edit a product than it is to try to get a perfect white background, which in almost all cases causes a halo or bleed of white into the product. Editing is your friend embrace it.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Lots of other things come into play, especially if the product is a know item, a playstation is a PlayStation, many other things come into play, customer confidence in the retailer, retailers online persona, returns policy, delivery cost and options, reviews, what the retailer sells, to name a few.

Obviously, but if everything else is equal, then the standard of photography tips the balance.

it’s quicker to cut out a product than it is to try to get a perfect white background.

I agree, and better too, because unwanted light from the background doesn't ruin the shot. It's a very simple and quick process, with the right process and the right software.

 

[Nickyy]

Thank you for inputs. I sell vintage and used designer clothes, using a 6 ft mannequin, so a light cube is probably not an option. Because I aim to list about 10 items a day, that’s 120 photos. That’s a LOT of editing, even if the edit process is fast. I spend hours a day editing. I cannot scale my business like this, because I have no time. In fact, I rarely list 10 items a day because the process is so timeconsuming. (I also have to source, clean, mend, steam, dress mannequin, and create listing, as well as do customer enquiries, packaging and post.)
Many of my items are unique or scarce, so buyers often can’t find the identical item from another seller - it’s not like selling new electronics with lots of competition. However, I ask not cheap prices for nice things so need to make my photos show a premium product that buyers have confidence in. The ipad is ok for this and at least it is fast, and then fast to upload into the ebay app. I know a camera would take better shots, but I think it might add greatly to time and complexity. I attach some edited photos of one of my items - I think they are ok, - but close up on the full item photos you can see the serrated edges left behind by my slightly crappy but very cheap background editing tool. Sometimes I don’t edit the background on the closeups because the backdrop shows less variation because it covers a smaller area. That reduces my effort a bit.

With 10 listings / 120 photos a day as my target, surely it’s going to be faster to get my setup right for a perfect white background that I can then leave in place, rather than edit all those photos? Is there a background cutout package that is genuinely fast given my volumes?

I can’t shoot through glass, I have to reposition the mannequin about 6 times for each item, walking back and forth to it. I can’t contemplate another obstacle to my process

 

[HoppyUK]

Given that you're not a photographer and have other priorities for your time, and assuming those example images are representative of what's needed, it wouldn't be difficult to devise a permanent set-up to give a pure white background every time straight out of the camera. The main subject lights could be fixed too, or allow a little movement and variation if needs be.

You'd need a dedicated area, and one thing about white backgrounds is everything is much easier with plenty of space. That's really why the HiLite was invented - they're very space-efficient.

A competent local photographer with good knowledge of lighting and experience in studio work should be able to sort something out for you.

 

[mike weeks]

6x7 needs flagging so it is not as wide, have a look at https://www.dorsetphotoevent.co.uk/lastolite-hilite-light-correctly

mike

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well, certainly some cameras will produce better results than your ipad, but some won't, basically you wouldn't get dramatically better results unless you buy the right sort of camera, the right lighting,and invest time and effort into learning, which I'm pretty sure you're not prepared to do - but feel free to prove me wrong . . .

So, let's limit ourselves to what you seem to be happy to do, which is to buy some kind of equipment that will produce results that are acceptable to you quickly and with a minimum of time.

Firstly, although I hate light cubes, you can in fact get one that will take a full size mannequin, they're available for that specific purpose.

Secondly, you can get a turntable, on which you'd place your mannequin. This could be either electric or manual, and will allow you to rotate the mannequin much more easily and accurately. The turntable would of course also help just as much if you use a white background or a Hilite.

Most of the damage to the edges seems to me to be from the overlit background, not from the poor editing. On the subject of editing, I clicked on two things on the photo below right, auto contrast and unsharp mask, just a couple of seconds and a worthwhile improvement on your original photo below left.

And the only way to avoid the overlit background problem is to not overlight the background Back to the idea of not photographing a lit white background at all, and cutting the subjects out in post processing. This really is the quickest, easiest and best way of doing it, but there's nothing to stop you for employing someone else to do it so that you could use your time on other things, it isn't hard.

And the half way house would be to still light the background but to avoid the damage to the edges by not having the light as bright. Again, this can be put right in post processing very easily, if necessary by someone else.

There would be plenty of ways of getting this job done easily, quickly and well, if only you were prepared to learn the photographic and lighting skills.

 

[Studio488commercial]

Thank you for inputs. I sell vintage and used designer clothes, using a 6 ft mannequin, so a light cube is probably not an option. Because I aim to list about 10 items a day, that’s 120 photos. That’s a LOT of editing, even if the edit process is fast. I spend hours a day editing. I cannot scale my business like this, because I have no time. In fact, I rarely list 10 items a day because the process is so timeconsuming. (I also have to source, clean, mend, steam, dress mannequin, and create listing, as well as do customer enquiries, packaging and post.)
Many of my items are unique or scarce, so buyers often can’t find the identical item from another seller - it’s not like selling new electronics with lots of competition. However, I ask not cheap prices for nice things so need to make my photos show a premium product that buyers have confidence in. The ipad is ok for this and at least it is fast, and then fast to upload into the ebay app. I know a camera would take better shots, but I think it might add greatly to time and complexity. I attach some edited photos of one of my items - I think they are ok, - but close up on the full item photos you can see the serrated edges left behind by my slightly crappy but very cheap background editing tool. Sometimes I don’t edit the background on the closeups because the backdrop shows less variation because it covers a smaller area. That reduces my effort a bit.

With 10 listings / 120 photos a day as my target, surely it’s going to be faster to get my setup right for a perfect white background that I can then leave in place, rather than edit all those photos? Is there a background cutout package that is genuinely fast given my volumes?

I can’t shoot through glass, I have to reposition the mannequin about 6 times for each item, walking back and forth to it. I can’t contemplate another obstacle to my process

You have to do some editing if want the premium look, that’s that, if your too busy with other things, get someone in or third party your photography, we shoot 50-200 garments a day, every day and have done for 14 years, we have never found a way to make sure the background is perfect white in camera, or dress the mannequin perfect each time due to size issues, we employ more post production staff than photographers........ (The glass was for products by the way)

 

[HoppyUK]

You have to do some editing if want the premium look, that’s that, if your too busy with other things, get someone in or third party your photography, we shoot 50-200 garments a day, every day and have done for 14 years, we have never found a way to make sure the background is perfect white in camera, or dress the mannequin perfect each time due to size issues, we employ more post production staff than photographers........ (The glass was for products by the way)

 

[Haldir]

Personally, I take product photography very seriously, because I know from a lot of experience that when a lot of sellers are selliing the same goods online at very similar prices to each other, the only thing that makes a real difference to sales is the appeal of the photos, so time and money spent on product photography is usually well spent.

I agree Garry, but sadly with sites like Amazon you loose ownership of your images once downloaded, anyone can use them, including Amazon. At least that was how it worked up to five/six years ago...Amazon allowed other sellers to undercut you using your images! Ebay on the other hand used to back the original seller when it came to copyright, not sure that's the case anymore...

Hello Nickky. Do you need ten shots per garment? I can see you want to provide close up detail when necessary but with the example dress provided, do you need both ODE9 and FOD0?
671B is almost a crop of 3401, the time saved taking fewer images could be spent in post production. Just an idea

 

[Garry Edwards]

There's another approach that the OP could consider - photograph them against a solid black background and forget about having a white one - this would make the products pop a bit, and completely remove the need to light the background and, in doing so, damage the edge detail.

The photos would still be just as fuzzy, but the contrast would be better simply because although the poor quality of the lens may be responsible for some of the lack of contrast, most of it is due to flare, caused by the white background.

Amazon almost insist on a white background, but other sites don't. A lot of people consider white backgrounds to look 'professional' but it only looks professional when done to a professional standard.

And this isn't really a photography question, it's a business question. The OP needs to decide which of the elements that create her sales are important, and worth spending time and money on, and which aren't. As photographers, we tend to have a biased view, but as someone who has produced a lot of sales images for a lot of businesses, large and small, I still have that same, biased view. Either spend more time and more money on producing better images, or don't, but there's no "magic bullet" in terms of equipment that will make the problems go away, so you need to either live with the problems, find a way of removing the cause of the problems (the white background), learn about lighting, photography and photoshop or contract the work out to other people.

This type of business isn't scaleable because the items sold are all one-offs, with supply limitations, but there are still options. Contracting out the photography and retouching to a competent photographer may be an answer, because if the better photos increase sales and increase profits, then there will be more money available to spend on the cost of sales, in this case on the photography.

 

[Nickyy]

Some interesting ideas here - thank you.

The damaged edges are definitely from my dodgy editing software, not background lighting - this item wasn’t background lit.
I accept that SOME editing may always be necessary, but it needs to be a LOT less than I currently do. Some sets of 12 are taking me half an hour or 40 mins.
The images above do have a couple that are almost duplicates, but that is uncommon in my listings, so no big time win available for me there.
Outsourcing photography and / or editing is under consideration, but will only be after volumes and throughput are in a reasonable position to enable scaled up sourcing or the numbers don’t add up. Turntable is under consideration, but that’s another topic.
I did use a black background, but it never looked good on listings, so now I just use it to photo pale items so background removal is easier, though this does also create other issues in editing.

I think I’m pretty set on the Hilite. As well as majorly improving the background so editing is minimal and I don’t get the edge “damage” I currently have, it will get rid of shadows under the arms that are often on my images. I saw Bowens 500 mentioned as the side lights. Would that be right?

 

[Studio488commercial]

Some interesting ideas here - thank you.

The damaged edges are definitely from my dodgy editing software, not background lighting - this item wasn’t background lit.
I accept that SOME editing may always be necessary, but it needs to be a LOT less than I currently do. Some sets of 12 are taking me half an hour or 40 mins.
The images above do have a couple that are almost duplicates, but that is uncommon in my listings, so no big time win available for me there.
Outsourcing photography and / or editing is under consideration, but will only be after volumes and throughput are in a reasonable position to enable scaled up sourcing or the numbers don’t add up. Turntable is under consideration, but that’s another topic.
I did use a black background, but it never looked good on listings, so now I just use it to photo pale items so background removal is easier, though this does also create other issues in editing.

I think I’m pretty set on the Hilite. As well as majorly improving the background so editing is minimal and I don’t get the edge “damage” I currently have, it will get rid of shadows under the arms that are often on my images. I saw Bowens 500 mentioned as the side lights. Would that be right?

So you are happy to spend £400 on something the experts tell you isn't needed ? improving your post production skills would at least half your time, you only have 4 images to deal with the crops are 10 second jobs as they should fill the frame. replace the hilite with a well lit background, same effect £400 cheaper.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Some interesting ideas here - thank you.

The damaged edges are definitely from my dodgy editing software, not background lighting - this item wasn’t background lit.
I accept that SOME editing may always be necessary, but it needs to be a LOT less than I currently do. Some sets of 12 are taking me half an hour or 40 mins.
The images above do have a couple that are almost duplicates, but that is uncommon in my listings, so no big time win available for me there.
Outsourcing photography and / or editing is under consideration, but will only be after volumes and throughput are in a reasonable position to enable scaled up sourcing or the numbers don’t add up. Turntable is under consideration, but that’s another topic.
I did use a black background, but it never looked good on listings, so now I just use it to photo pale items so background removal is easier, though this does also create other issues in editing.

I think I’m pretty set on the Hilite. As well as majorly improving the background so editing is minimal and I don’t get the edge “damage” I currently have, it will get rid of shadows under the arms that are often on my images. I saw Bowens 500 mentioned as the side lights. Would that be right?

Bowens 500 is a flash head, far more powerful than you would need even if you were using a camera that could be used with it.
You've asked for advice, we've given it, whether or not you choose to follow it is of course entirely up to you.

 

[Faldrax]

The damaged edges are definitely from my dodgy editing software, not background lighting - this item wasn’t background lit.

Just to add a bit of extra explanation from what @Garry Edwards originally said.
When you illuminate the background, some of the light then reflects back from the background onto the back of your subject.
The further from the background you can place the subject the less light reaches the subject (hence @HoppyUK mentioning having plenty of space), but also controlling the light on the background so that it's only just white to the camera minimises the amount of reflected light.
So you may not have intentionally been back lighting the dresses, but you may have unintentionally doing so.

 

[Nickyy]

My backdrop is currently lit with softboxes a few feet away at 45 degrees. The mannequin is then in front of those softboxes such that no light directly hits the back of the mannequin. This already chews up perhaps 5’ depth. My item lights are then several feet in front of the mannequin again at 45degrees. I am then perhaps another 4‘ or more back from that. As you can imagine, this chews up a lot of space, often up to 12’, and 6’ wide. The Hilite would help with that.
My white background always has a grey cast to the bottom. The longer the item, the more of an issue this is. I am ar a loss of how to light this all the way down. The Hilite would help with that.
The shadows under arms are caused by lack of backlight on some items, esp when I use the black backdrop. The Hilite would help with that.

My initial query was what lights I need for the Hilite. I am still unclear on that. Garry mentioned power adjustable LEDs but did not elaborate. Elsewhere mentioned Bowens 500, and I was trying to verify that here.
While other suggestions have been made, with all due respect, they are made in the absence of knowing exactly what the issues are, much of what I do, how I am working, what I have tried, or what my plans are. Many of the suggestions are not suitable for me, for various reasons.

£400 is not much if it does what I need it to do, and anyway, in the first instance I would buy used. It would be nearer £100. I am trying to figure sidelight type, and therefore cost.
Getting a professional in for a day for a consulting exercise would be much more.

I am not saying post-production skills need no improvement, but my lack of good background is causing the majority of issues presently, so that’s what I need to fix.

 

[Studio488commercial]

My backdrop is currently lit with softboxes a few feet away at 45 degrees. The mannequin is then in front of those softboxes such that no light directly hits the back of the mannequin. This already chews up perhaps 5’ depth. My item lights are then several feet in front of the mannequin again at 45degrees. I am then perhaps another 4‘ or more back from that. As you can imagine, this chews up a lot of space, often up to 12’, and 6’ wide. The Hilite would help with that.
My white background always has a grey cast to the bottom. The longer the item, the more of an issue this is. I am ar a loss of how to light this all the way down. The Hilite would help with that.
The shadows under arms are caused by lack of backlight on some items, esp when I use the black backdrop. The Hilite would help with that.

My initial query was what lights I need for the Hilite. I am still unclear on that. Garry mentioned power adjustable LEDs but did not elaborate. Elsewhere mentioned Bowens 500, and I was trying to verify that here.
While other suggestions have been made, with all due respect, they are made in the absence of knowing exactly what the issues are, much of what I do, how I am working, what I have tried, or what my plans are. Many of the suggestions are not suitable for me, for various reasons.

£400 is not much if it does what I need it to do, and anyway, in the first instance I would buy used. It would be nearer £100. I am trying to figure sidelight type, and therefore cost.
Getting a professional in for a day for a consulting exercise would be much more.

I am not saying post-production skills need no improvement, but my lack of good background is causing the majority of issues presently, so that’s what I need to fix.

Don’t take this the wrong way, you just had hundreds of pounds worth of free advice, from a seasoned Fashion/product photographer and someone else (me) who is doing exactly what you are doing every single day of the week with hundreds of garments. You are telling us how a hilite will fix your problems, they won’t, they will make it worse, what is the difference between a white wall correctly lit and a hilite? The answer is Marketing.

You are throwing cash and equipment at a problem that just needs a bit of knowledge and skill, for example I see you bought an invisible mannequin? And then didn’t use it, standard mannequins do the job perfectly but post production is needed to reinsert necklines ect. Honestly if it was as easy as you think it is with a bit of equipment we would be out of work however in the real word we see loads of clients like yourself who after buying kit and wasting time, simply hand over their photography to the professionals and they get on with running their retail business.

 

[Nickyy]

“what is the difference between a white wall correctly lit and a hilite? The answer is Marketing.” Also space, which I need, and also an even backdrop, which I need.

”I see you bought an invisible mannequin? And then didn’t use it“ Yes, I did buy one, and use it sometimes. I happened not to on that item. The additional editing effort isn’t always worth it on top of my current effort. Perhaps it would be more consistently if I could minimise current editing effort, which is exactly why I’m here asking these questions.

”you just had hundreds of pounds worth of free advice, from a seasoned Fashion/product photographer and someone else (me)”
I am not hearing a solution to my issue here, just people telling me to do more editing! I am seeking to minimise editing. You must accept that 30mins editing per item is ridiculous. I want to eliminate as much human intervention in that part of the process as possible.
What solution are you suggesting?

 

[Studio488commercial]

“what is the difference between a white wall correctly lit and a hilite? The answer is Marketing.” Also space, which I need, and also an even backdrop, which I need.

”I see you bought an invisible mannequin? And then didn’t use it“ Yes, I did buy one, and use it sometimes. I happened not to on that item. The additional editing effort isn’t always worth it on top of my current effort. Perhaps it would be more consistently if I could minimise current editing effort, which is exactly why I’m here asking these questions.

”you just had hundreds of pounds worth of free advice, from a seasoned Fashion/product photographer and someone else (me)”
I am not hearing a solution to my issue here, just people telling me to do more editing! I am seeking to minimise editing. You must accept that 30mins editing per item is ridiculous. I want to eliminate as much human intervention in that part of the process as possible.
What solution are you suggesting?

You have a solution, you are just choosing to ignore it. Get better and faster at editing, you are correct 30 mins per image is ridiculous, but that is your lack of skill and experience not the process.

 

[HoppyUK]

My backdrop is currently lit with softboxes a few feet away at 45 degrees. The mannequin is then in front of those softboxes such that no light directly hits the back of the mannequin. This already chews up perhaps 5’ depth. My item lights are then several feet in front of the mannequin again at 45degrees. I am then perhaps another 4‘ or more back from that. As you can imagine, this chews up a lot of space, often up to 12’, and 6’ wide. The Hilite would help with that.
My white background always has a grey cast to the bottom. The longer the item, the more of an issue this is. I am ar a loss of how to light this all the way down. The Hilite would help with that.
The shadows under arms are caused by lack of backlight on some items, esp when I use the black backdrop. The Hilite would help with that.

My initial query was what lights I need for the Hilite. I am still unclear on that. Garry mentioned power adjustable LEDs but did not elaborate. Elsewhere mentioned Bowens 500, and I was trying to verify that here.
While other suggestions have been made, with all due respect, they are made in the absence of knowing exactly what the issues are, much of what I do, how I am working, what I have tried, or what my plans are. Many of the suggestions are not suitable for me, for various reasons.

£400 is not much if it does what I need it to do, and anyway, in the first instance I would buy used. It would be nearer £100. I am trying to figure sidelight type, and therefore cost.
Getting a professional in for a day for a consulting exercise would be much more.

I am not saying post-production skills need no improvement, but my lack of good background is causing the majority of issues presently, so that’s what I need to fix.

Whatever else you do Nickyy, don't go away with the idea that all it takes is a couple of lights stuck inside a HiLite. A HiLite might work for you, it may save some space or it might not (the main space saving is width, not depth). But unless you know what you're doing it could just as easily make things worse and you'll have spent a chunk of money without being any further forward and won't know how to fix it.

Getting a pure white background is not difficult (just blitz it) but getting a white background that is perfectly evenly lit all over and also carefully balanced to your main subject lights is essential if you're to use images straight out of the camera. This requires knowledge and skill, and that's just for the background. Somewhere along the line you're going to need the services of an expert - a seasoned studio photographer who understands studio lighting, so maybe not your average wedding photographer or the local press guy.

 

[HoppyUK]

You have a solution, you are just choosing to ignore it. Get better and faster at editing, you are correct 30 mins per image is ridiculous, but that is your lack of skill and experience not the process.

It's worth mentioning that there are very efficient and affordable editing services, mainly operating out of India I think. I've never used them but others on here maybe have.

 

[Nickyy]

“You have a solution, you are just choosing to ignore it. Get better and faster at editing, you are correct 30 mins per image is ridiculous, but that is your lack of skill and experience not the process.”

That is not a solution.

And to clarify, is not 30 mins per image, it can be up to 30 mins per set of 12 images.

The root cause of this waste of time is the uneven background lighting which then necessitates editing.
I could invest money into better software and / or editing labour, but that would be to accept an ongoing operational cost to my business for ever more.
I believe the better approach is to correct the issue at source with a one-off capital investment, which then minimises or eliminates the on-going operational cost, obviously that capital expense would be recouped very quickly.

I appreciate that you have your own way of doing things for your business, but I have a different plan, and just because it is not your method does not make it wrong. I see a streamlined process, on one device, using as few applications as possible, with minimal manual intervention as the way forward. That is the most cost-efficient route.

Can anyone advise if they use a Hilite, if so, with what side lights (examples of make, models etc), and do you easily get an evenly lit background?

 

[Nickyy]

“Getting a pure white background is not difficult (just blitz it) but getting a white background that is perfectly evenly lit all over and also carefully balanced to your main subject lights is essential if you're to use images straight out of the camera.”

Thank you Hoppy. I get the blitzing it thing, and this works for me to a certain extent. My problem is that I cannot blitz it all the way to the floor.
With the background as white as possible (but not perfect), I can just increase exposure a bit when editing, and on short items the grey cast towards the base disappears and the items brightens up, and it’s fine. This is pretty fast.
But for longer items, or paler items, this doesn’t work. Trying to increase exposure to wipe out the grey cast requires so much that the whole item, especially at the top, becomes overexposed.

I have looked for floorlights to light up from the bottom to eliminate the grey cast. I can’t find the right thing.
My softboxes will not position low enough to do it either. So how do I get rid of them?
That is why I thought the Hilite would work for me, giving me an even background all the way down, then just increase the exposure a bit for some images and that would be just about it.

I know it sounds awful, but I am not seeking professional quality images here. I have no issues selling items over £100 or £200, or even £300 with the images I already produce. Better images will not really bring me better prices at this point.
But FASTER images will allow me to sell more items. Hence my queries here.

 

[mike weeks]

I saw Bowens 500 mentioned as the side lights. Would that be right?

when I wrote that it was standard event photography gear. I had 5 heads so any head could be used anywhere on the set up.

Now most of us have gone battery, cameras have got better

Mike

 

[Garry Edwards]

My backdrop is currently lit with softboxes a few feet away at 45 degrees.

That's OK and, if correctly set up, should be lighting the background evenly. If it isn't it may be that the softboxes you're using are too small and / or badly designed. Good softboxes are quite expensive and there's a reason why the cheap ones cost less.

My item lights are then several feet in front of the mannequin again at 45degrees.

Your photos are flat and dull. There's no single way of lighting clothing, different types of product need different lighting, but even lighting, two lights at 45 degrees, is the worst possible way of doing it.. Try one light directly in front and a second one at a fairly acute angle, off to one side. It will look far more interesting and will also show the texture. It will however also accentuate any creases. An alternative would be to use 3 lights, both sides lit at an acute angle, the front light becomes a fill light at lower power.

My initial query was what lights I need for the Hilite. I am still unclear on that. Garry mentioned power adjustable LEDs but did not elaborate.

the short answer is that any LED will produce adequate results with it, but those lights must be adjustable for power. The reason for this is that the power needs to be set to the point where the background photographs as pure white but without overdoing it - if they aren't bright enough then it will photograph as grey and if they are too bright then they will cause flare and will also eat away at any fine detail on the edge of your subjects.

I don't understand what it is that you don't understand, but I'll try again.
You need LED lights for this, simply because you're using an i-pad not a camera.
They need to be adjustable for power, because the background needs to be slightly more bright than your subject. If it's too bright it will make the photos worse. Some LED lights are adjustable for power, others aren't, or don't have a wide enough range of adjustment.

While other suggestions have been made, with all due respect, they are made in the absence of knowing exactly what the issues are, much of what I do, how I am working, what I have tried, or what my plans are. Many of the suggestions are not suitable for me, for various reasons.

Well yes, you did keep all the important information quiet at first, and for all we knew you could have been selling left-handed widgets, but you've corrected that now.
Most of the suggestions have come from someone who runs a successful business photographing untold thousands of different products, high volume, low price, so he understands the importance of workflow as well as anyone, and from what I understand most of the products that he shoots are garments, so you should listen to him. And, as well as being a fashion and commercial photographer, I've run several successful businesses and so understand all the issues that affect all small businesses, these issues never vary, so perhaps you should listen to me too.

You keep saying that a Hi-lite is a solution. Now that we know what you're photographing I can tell you that it isn't, because apart from anything else it doesn't light the floor. They did introduce a white vinyl train to get around this, but it doesn't impress me. Several of us have told you that it won't help, including Richard (Hoppy UK) who is a vastly experienced technical writer who writes about equipment and knows far more about it than most. Listen to him too.

Your solution is simple..
1. Take more care with your lighting
2. Spend more time on image processing..

That may not be what you want to hear, but it's what you need to hear. If you really can't or don't want to do it yourself then pay someone else to do it for you, which makes it scaleable. Doing so will solve your perceived problems and increase your sales. Obviously, as you're selling one-off items there's a limit to what you should spend, but within reason it will pay for itself in spades.

 

[Nickyy]

Gaaah! I think my will to live is expiring . We’ve been able to put astronauts on the moon for over half a century and all I’m hearing is we can’t light up a piece of paper evenly??
A reasonable pass must be possible... I am not seeking perfection. I am even almost there even with my current cheap lot of kit which I have been faffing around with for the last few days in different configurations to try to fix the grey cast. That is why is am doggedly pursuing the same question. It is just the grey cast at the bottom. I need to get rid of it. Maybe uplights? floor lights?
I saw some small LED lights, but it said they gave a yellow tinge. I looked at the selfie rings, which I think some resellers use.
I looked at better softboxes 1.4metres long, but worried they still might not set low enough to eliminate the grey, and actually, with the tripods, they were really quite expensive, much more than a second hand Hilite.
I’m not interested in the Hilite train, I will deal with the floor editing using my current white backdrop on full length items, as I don’t do that many full length anyway.
I just want the background fairly even down to, or as close as I can get to, but not including the floor. Currently my grey cast starts showing about 3.5’ up from the floor and gets darker the closer to the floor. My white backdrop currently stretches across the floor.

I wonder if my version of “evenly white” is different to your professional versions of “evenly white”? How do I get “reasonably evenly white” almost to the floor, or even within 1 or 2 feet of the floor? This would make a huge difference to me.

Garry, it’s not that I didn’t understand your post, but I was hoping for make / model guidance.

”Your photos are flat and dull.” Charming!! I did say I was not a photographer! But they don’t stop me selling at healthy prices. The thing that costs me is the lack of speed.
I have asked about fast background editing software, but no-one mentioned any products.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Gaaah! I think my will to live is expiring . We’ve been able to put astronauts on the moon for over half a century and all I’m hearing is we can’t light up a piece of paper evenly??

We can, easily.. It needs quite a lot of space, because the power needs to be turned up pretty high, and there has to be a lot of space between subject and background for the reflected light to have reduced in volume sufficiently. 5m as an absolute minimum. And having 4 flashes on the background is a big help too.

. Maybe uplights? floor lights?

Better just to manage with what you have, but correctly aimed and at the distance that covers the whole of the background..

I looked at better softboxes 1.4metres long, but worried they still might not set low enough to eliminate the grey, and actually, with the tripods, they were really quite expensive, much more than a second hand Hilite.
.

Yes, decent products do cost money. With the right stands https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...ombined-floor-low-level-stand-lencarta-sta013 you won't have a problem, they will light from the floor up, they were specifically designed to work with strip softboxes, I know that because I designed them.

.

”Your photos are flat and dull.” Charming!! I did say I was not a photographer! But they don’t stop me selling at healthy prices. The thing that costs me is the lack of speed.
I have asked about fast background editing software, but no-one mentioned any products.

I'm rude, direct and I wouldn't have got (or wanted) a job in the diplomatic service. But I'm honest too, and sadly your photos are flat and dull. Several of us have tried very hard to help you to improve them, but that clearly isn't going to happen.

 

[Nickyy]

That Lencarta stand looks perfect. You designed it? That is not expensive at all. Will they fit this sort of thing ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Godox-35...ns-Mount-for-Studio-Strobe-Light/183966660698

I am not worried by the flat / dull comment, it quite amused me. This forum keeps editing my emojis out.
I appreciate your efforts to make me take better photos, but that is not what will pay me dividends right now. I need to tackle my biggest issues first. Better photos can wait.

 

[andrewc]

I've got a hilite. I use it a couple of times a year for an pop up clean background for an annual awards dinner and occasionally for some theatre promotional posters where the subjects are being cut out for publicity posters. I use an Elinchrom flash head on a stands, one for the hilite, and another with a soft box lighting the subject. I am using using a conventional digital SLR with a wireless trigger system to fire the flashes. With a single light in the hilite I notice variations in the whiteness of the white from the edges to the centre. I could add a second light on the other side, but that adds to the bulk of the kit and the time setting up and dismantling.

If I was working in a permanent studio environment I wouldn't use the hilite... (its only because i need it to be ultra portable that I use it)

Unless there is way of reliably triggering flash heads from an iPad camera, you're stuck with continuous lighting

If speed of editing is important, I would start transitioning away from iPad to a tethered camera system attached to a laptop, and then you can use lightroom and/or photoshop droplets and actions to automate part of the process. Once your lighting is setup and you've got that sorted, the time spent editing will be significantly less. A dSLR is likely to reproduce finer detail significantly better, so you can simply use a crop of one of the main shots as a detail shot - therefore saving time - editing one shot and taking a crop from it is quicker than taking two shots and editing two shots.

Whilst you may not want to become a photographer, you would be able to significantly improve the shots for the purposes you need by following a paint by numbers approach. Today we're shooting dresses so we'll use this lamp here at 3/4 power, this lamp here at full power and this lamp there at 1/3 power. Camera settings this, this and this. Tomorrow we're shooting antique books, so we're moving the camera to here, but leaving the lighting largely alone.

There is significant experience and expertise being given already, by experts in their fields. Heed it.

 

[Garry Edwards]

That Lencarta stand looks perfect. You designed it? That is not expensive at all. Will they fit this sort of thing ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Godox-35...ns-Mount-for-Studio-Strobe-Light/183966660698

I am not worried by the flat / dull comment, it quite amused me. This forum keeps editing my emojis out.
I appreciate your efforts to make me take better photos, but that is not what will pay me dividends right now. I need to tackle my biggest issues first. Better photos can wait.

No, the item you linked is a softbox, but not one that I would recommend. The item that fits onto the stand is for any flash head.

Not expensive at all? Very reasonably priced, but then it's an excellent product with decent marketing, has virtually no competition and sells like hot cakes. It's volume that creates profit and reduces costs, not profit margins.

 

[Phil V]

Forgive me @Nickyy for not having read all the above; if I understand your problem - it’s to get an evenly lit white background? And you’ve read that a hi-lite will do it with less space than lighting a background?
thats correct! Until you include some floor in your images and then all you’ve done is move the same issue a couple of feet.

If you’re insisting on using an iPad rather than a camera, you’re dismissing the tools most ‘photographers’ would use, which is a camera and flash (the iPad has no way of firing flash and no way of understanding a flash exposure)

so you need to use continuous light? The problem then is that unlike with flash, the continuous lights don’t necessarily fit standard soft boxes and stands.

It’s easy for us to write a shopping list for photography, less so for shooting with a computer.

 

[Nickyy]

“The item that fits onto the stand is for any flash head.” Ok, can you link an example of what fits on the lencarta stand then?
Obvs, I use continuous lighting at the moment.

 

[Phil V]

“The item that fits onto the stand is for any flash head.” Ok, can you link an example of what fits on the lencarta stand then?
Obvs, I use continuous lighting at the moment.

Any std studio flash head would fit, the Lencarta site has many flash heads and even some continuous lights that’d fit.
those lights would also have Bowen’s mounts to mount soft boxes

 

[Nickyy]

Hi Phil,
“if I understand your problem - it’s to get an evenly lit white background? And you’ve read that a hi-lite will do it with less space than lighting a background? thats correct! Until you include some floor in your images and then all you’ve done is move the same issue a couple of feet.“ Exactly. But I don’t often get floor in my photos. Most items are kneelength or above.

”If you’re insisting on using an iPad rather than a camera, you’re dismissing the tools most ‘photographers’ would use, which is a camera and flash (the iPad has no way of firing flash and no way of understanding a flash exposure)”. Yes, and I realise this seems almost offensive to professional photographers, but I am a clothing seller not a photographer, and presently my greatest need is faster produced photos, not better. I need to find a way of being faster. The quality of my photos does not currently hurt sales, but my ability to produce them quickly does. The most timeconsuming part of my photo production is the editing.

I presently have 4 softboxes. They are pretty big. As I understand it, they are continuous lighting?

 

[Phil V]

That Lencarta stand looks perfect. You designed it? That is not expensive at all. Will they fit this sort of thing ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Godox-35...ns-Mount-for-Studio-Strobe-Light/183966660698

If you look at the image there, you can see a stand (the shorter stand would work fine, the stripbox inc an S mount speedring, and a studio light. The studio light fits the stand (all do) and has a Bowen’s S mount to fit the stripbox

a common problem with newbies is they think of the soft box as a light source rather than a modifier (the light source is the continuous light or flash inside the soft box.

 

[Garry Edwards]

“The item that fits onto the stand is for any flash head.” Ok, can you link an example of what fits on the lencarta stand then?
Obvs, I use continuous lighting at the moment.

Something like this will do https://www.dx.com/p/godox-sl60w-56...R4bbCNwsDvnNKnVAkURoC11wQAvD_BwE#.XrsiwGhKiHt
It has the standard S-fit accessory mount (Bowens) and there's a massive range of softboxes and other light shapers available for it.

Other makes are available, Godox is at the cheaper end but is popular.