What is the minimum I should spend on a 70-200 lens?

kitschenalia

kitschenalia

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I've asked for vouchers from Jessops for Christmas :)

I'd like to get a new lens, prob a 70-200 (as I have a Sigma 18-55 and a Canon 1.8 50mm which I can get reasonable results with so far). I'd like to now only invest in glass which can be used at a semi-professional level - I've done two weddings for nothing, but have now had my first professional (but on a budget) request for a wedding (I haven't gone into business so to speak, but have set up a Facebook page, see below, and am hoping that a side-line income will eventually grow organically, as it seems to be). I'd also like to ideally do child and family portrait photography (ideally outdoors work) on a small scale. But these will be initially low intro rate projects.

I can't afford to upgrade my camera yet (currently Canon EOS 500D) but if I invest in decent glass, then it will last when eventually I upgrade my camera.

So - what level of glass would you suggest? I'm limited to Jessops as I've asked for vouchers. Thanks!
 
Can't give you much input as to which lens - a 70-200 f2.8 would be a good option though :), but can you not just ask fro cash instead of vouchers? that way you can spend it where you want - most of the time you can get things cheaper elsewhere.....
 
quality :D

how much money do you have to play with? If you're going to do wedding type and indoor stuff, you're going to need good glass, which is why i said soemthing with 2.8 :)

You're probably looking at around £1000+ for the canon variety and probably £500+ on the sigma version....
 
If I was looking at these for weddings I'd probably go for the Canon f/4 IS, about £900 new I think?

I just bought a f/2.8 non IS for sport, I reckon you'd be better off with the IS for weddings though. You can get a 2.8 IS but that's over £1500!

Could consider the Sigma f/2.8 as well, I did but decided to spend the extra and get the Canon and I hopefully won't regret it. It arrived today, can't wait to get home and have a look!
 
70-200 F2.8 IS II if you're doing weddings at a semi-pro level. It's heavy mind and will feel very out of balance on the 500D.

Why the variation in price? Light capturing ability (i.e. low f number), optical quality and image stabilisation. The cheaper long zoom lenses tend to be about f5.6 by the time they are at 200. That's 2 stops slower than the constant f2.8 lenses. Or another way of looking at it is you will need to be x4 on iso or x4 slower on shutter speed for the same photo. This will mean they will be more difficult to use for events such as weddings and still get a good photo.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ should give you an idea of what the differences between the better lenses are.
 
My personal minimum criteria would be f2.8 throughout. Beyond that you will usually find you get what you pay for.

Sigma is frequently criticised but I have been using their 70-200mm on my Nikons since I went digital start of 2003. It is tack sharp and it has been more than good enough for my weddings and portraits. If I were shooting sports or wildlife with fast moving action I might feel the need to upgrade purely because the focusing would be quicker, but I rarely miss a shot at a wedding because it is not as quick as the Nikon.

At the time, this lens cost around 800 quid but I guess today's equivalent is £1329 http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/77929/show.html

You mention you have a 500D, but what is your backup camera? If you don't have one, you need to spend some of your vouchers in that department before doing a wedding.

Chris.
 
thanks for all the tips, everyone. I'll def. try and go for a 2.8 - but realistically then it looks as though I will have to hold on to my vouchers which may come to between £100-£200 and save up from my own money, hopefully in time for the wedding.

Chip, I know I need a back up camera, but how would you approach this? I wasn't going to charge more than about £100 for this. I don't have much income at the moment. I've done everything else to date free. I doubt I could afford another DSLR. So - should I just have said no? Or do I hire one for the day?
 
kitschenalia said:
Chip, I know I need a back up camera, but how would you approach this? I wasn't going to charge more than about £100 for this. I don't have much income at the moment. I've done everything else to date free. I doubt I could afford another DSLR. So - should I just have said no? Or do I hire one for the day?
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Do you know any one you could borrow a camera off?
 
kitschenalia said:
I do have a photographer friend, but she is Nikon - I wouldn't know where to start....... actually come to think of it, I have a friend with a Canon EOS 350 or 450 or something - a step down from mine. Would that be ok for back up?
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Something would be better than nothing ;)
 
kitschenalia said:
Chip, I know I need a back up camera, but how would you approach this? I wasn't going to charge more than about £100 for this. I don't have much income at the moment. I've done everything else to date free. I doubt I could afford another DSLR. So - should I just have said no? Or do I hire one for the day?
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I'm afraid to say, I don't think you should be taking on jobs that you are not properly equippped to do.

Your main camera could develop a problem at any time during the day (or worse still, your camera, flash and best lens could all get wiped out in one go in an accident), so your backup needs to be good enough to cover the entire wedding. If you can borrow a camera similar to your own all well and good, but if you have to hire one you would probably be better off not doing the wedding at all.

Don't make the mistake of thinking clients on a low budget (£100?? :gag:) will be understanding if you fail to deliver, particularly for something as fundemental as not having backup camera, lenses and flash in your bag.

Chris.
 
kitschenalia said:
thanks James.

It sounds good but if it's f4, that goes against the advise of going for 2.8, so I don't know how I feel about that - thoughts anyone?
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If you are charging people money for wedding pictures then you really have to be careful. No offence but it sounds like you dont really know what you are doing yet. I'd suggest doing more research and learning about:
  1. F stop, shutter speed and ISO. How they affect your picture & why
  2. Wedding & portrait photography particularly
  3. How to set up a business, especially contracts and insurance

Good luck.
 
One of the Canon 70-200 f2.8 lenses would be ideal but they don't come cheap as suggested the 70-200 f4 is an excellent cheaper option. Obviously you're loosing a stop which could be an issue in some situations, but is a fast focusing and extremely sharp lens.

I've just been having a look at the wedding shots on your facebook page and I was wondering what you were using for flash - the on camera one? I'd highly recommend getting an external flash and bouncing it as direct flash can leave some strong shadows. This is a good value external flash - http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/67557/show.html
 
kitschenalia said:
Chris, I probably can borrow a back up a grade down from my own camera, not sure if you saw my later reply. I'm not sure on £100 - I have started another thread asking for advice on how much to charge :) I've seen amazing photos taken with this camera, so I'm sure it would be ok as a back up.
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I'll got shot for saying this, and I don't wish to start a flame war............but it can produce amazing photos in great conditions, which isn't the same as a dark church, in the middle of November (maybe when its raining outside) when you'll still need to produce great photos

Hugh
 
Sam I understand point 1 already. I have some experience with the second two. I don't think I should be doing yet another free wedding now, when I have already done two free. I take on board your point 3 though.

Peter, it was an external flash - I had only got it the day before though and so the shadows were unfortunate - I do normally bounce but I was far back in the room and it wasn't light enough bounced. I know I need to work on that - I do have a year before this wedding though.

Thanks Hugh, good to know.

What with this and the other thread I feel like getting in touch and saying no, and giving up on my dream of having this as a part-time income - I thought I'd finally got my first paid (albeit at a very low intro rate) project.

Or maybe I try not to go on a downer because of what people tell me on a forum, I don't know. I was just starting to get very confident about my work and getting a lot of great feedback from people.
 
don't give up, but be realistic. Plan its as a business, as well as something you love. Be realistic though, try to think of everything you'll need to run it as such. No matter what you charge £100 or £2,000 you won't make a profit on your first paying wedding.

Things like kit and backup,
Insurance
Sample albums
accountant and tax man
maybe some training to cope in low light, difficult situations
2nd shooting

It does add up, most people turn a profit in year 3.

I'm not a fan of people saying £100 is way too low as above you'll make no profit anyway, so if the photos you'll gain are worth it for your portfoilo do it
 
kitschenalia said:
Sam I understand point 1 already. I have some experience with the second two. I don't think I should be doing yet another free wedding now, when I have already done two free. I take on board your point 3 though.
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Dont give up, I wasn't trying to put you down or put you off your aim. I mentioned those three points for your own protection. When a client isn't happy things can get messy very quickly, especially if you end up with a "bridezilla".

I've worked on weddings as a videographer, I dont think I would like to do one as a photographer, its far too much stress! I think what people are saying is you need to be covered for every situation. Batteries run out, cameras malfunction, lenses can stop working. You have to be able to cope with every situation very quickly or you'll miss important shots. Also you have to be able to deal with difficult photographic situations like low light or harsh sunlight. The question you asked in the first post gave me the impression that you aren't able to deal with these situations because any photographer who knows his/her stuff wouldn't need to ask.

But like I said, dont give up, keep at it, I had a look at some of your pictures and they aren't bad (I only looked at the thumbnails).
 
check out the online prices before buying at Jessops,they seem willing to match online prices,their own site is nearly always a lot cheaper to buy from than the shop,they do seem to be as cheap as most anywhere online tho,you can order online and pick up at shop too,if your going to charge then I think £100 is too cheap,if the pics are worth selling then they are worth more than £100.
 
Just to jump back in, with lenses I'd always try and buy the best you can afford. A good lens can give you an instant improvement in your images, probably more than a new camera body would.

Also, remember that whereas a camera body will depreciate as new models come out, a good lens will hold it's value and there's a huge market for second-hand lenses. So if you buy a new lens and don't get as much use from it as you thought, there's every chance you can make the vast majority of your money back on it.
 
It's a year away. That means a November Wedding. You've plenty of time to learn some more technique. Don't charge for this one. When someone pays to get a job done there is always the expectation of a good job. You'll no doubt be quite capable by then. Don't pressurise yourself. Get more gear. Get comfortable with it.
It's always great to get paid work but remember apprentices used to have to pay their employers for their training !!
You'll get there. Just be better equipped. Do more free ones if you have to. There is NO substitute for experience.

Hope I haven't come over as harsh, don't give up.
Remember that one of the definitions of cheap is 'goods of inferior quality'
When you're ready don't be cheap !
Good value means you also get something from it as well as the B&G.
 
Sorry. On the lens thing. If the 70-200 is gonna be over budget why not consider an 85 1.8 ?
Sucks the light in, needs a bit of practice with shooting wide open. Sharp though. !
 
I wouldn't stress too much about getting a 70-200 for a wedding. You will most probably not even use it as I think they can be too long for most situations , especially on a cropped sensor . And fumbling around with lenses on one body will be a pain because I can guarantee within 1 minute yiu will wish you had a wider lens to grab the shot you just missed . At least if you had 2 bodies you can have both lenses set up ready to go . Just put the larger apature lens on the older camera as chances are it won't handle higher ISO values as well as your newer model. Hth
 
If you do your research and get some evidence of pricing available you can get Jessops to pricematch on big ticket items. Also you could use Quidco and collect in store to ensure you make the most of your vouchers.

As for the back up camera question you can pick up bargains on here regularly so don't despair.
 
thanks Hugh, it's definitely going to be good for the portfolio. Thanks for the advice.

Mark, I said to my husband last night, I'm not going to buy a cheapo lens now - going to save and get a decent one when I can - no point in throwing away money now.

Trevor, no not harsh, there's a whole other thread about this in Business. But I am going to charge, I made the decision some time ago, no more free work for others, it's time to start putting a value on my work. And I've been in contact with the bride to explain my experience and equipment level - she replied saying she wanted someone starting out as she's on a low budget. That lens sounds interesting, thanks.

thanks DoubleT!

Digikat, I will look into that, thankyou.
 
Jessops also do interest free credit over 12 months if you spend more than £800, which could help spread the cost.
 
snigg and Sam didn't see your posts, sorry.

snigg, thank you - will keep that in mind.

Sam, thanks. I think I've got a pretty good grasp of exposure, the use of light etc. now. It's been over a year since I started (I know that's no time, but still), and I've been obsessed since the word go. I just haven't really learnt much about the specifics of different lenses, mainly due to not having the money to really invest in many!
 
Work on technique rather than worry about equipment just yet. Maybe see if you can second shoot a few weddings for a more experienced photographer in your area, that way you get great experience without the worry of having to deliver everything, plus you get to see how full time Pros work and pick up tips.

You would probably be best looking into hiring lenses for the wedding, as that way you can get the best quality for a lot less outlay. Maybe consider hiring a lens before you invest in it as you can see if it works for you. That way you don't waste money on a lens you rarely use or don't like.

Experience is always going to benefit over equipment.
 
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