What is the collective thoughts on ChatGPT for PP

Compuwight

Compuwight

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Steve France
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Last evening I watched the judging of a local photographic competition and was less than amused by the Judges comments which seemed to me (other opinions are available) that it mostly centred around PP to get that perfect image. For example the comments were I should have used PP to remove the orange tape and improve the impression of speed in panning .... see below

I should point out at this stage that I am not a fan of PP beyond minor edits in LR Classic

To put this in context, the day I took this photo it was dull and pouring with rain, the marshals were severely restricting access to the action, so this picture was taken through a hedge and stood upto my ankles in Cow sh*t . Using a 200mm lens and pushing ISO to get a reasonable exposure I was happy to get a half good shot IMHO

Original -
Steve France_Subaru in Motion_WVCC.jpg

After using ChatGPT with 2 instructions 'remove orange tape' then 'improve panning to give better impression of speed whilst keeping car in focus'
ChatGPT PP of Subaru in motion.jpg
 
I think its inevitable, when the world went from darkroom to digital there was a lot of derision of Photoshop but now that is common place. AI will be the next big shift.

My take on it is that "Photograph" means drawing with light, so as long as the image is substantially as it was originally captured (i.e. it should be an impression of the light that was present at the scene when you were there with the camera) then minor edits are okay, it doesn't matter how those edits are done, dodging in a darkroom or using A.I.
 
TBH We've been manipulating photos since pouring plates. In the darkroom I used techniques to smooth out the skin of an older female sitter who wanted a portrait for her husband. For me, if the photo is still mine and I'm consciously making the edits to remove the tape etc. then I'm happy. If I gave the instruction as you did then I would feel it was no longer my work.
 
This is the problem with judges , they were not there at the time when the photo was taken. So how on earth can one judge a photo ?? One reason why I seriously avoid camera clubs and any photographic competitions.
 
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realspeed said:
This is the problem with judges , they were not there at the time when the photo was taken. So how on earth can one judge a photo ?? One reason why I seriously avoid camera clubs and any photographic competitions.
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In a way, that's the only way it can be judged - as a photo alone, without the physical and emotional baggage that might weight our view of our own work.
 
I think it is inevitable although I do not like massive edits with light bursts and stars added. But..that is just me.

I think a photograph is whatever the photographer wants it to be, it's art at the end of the day. I just wish things heavily edited with AI were signposted clearly.
 
Compuwight said:
Last evening I watched the judging of a local photographic competition and was less than amused by the Judges comments which seemed to me (other opinions are available) that it mostly centred around PP to get that perfect image. For example the comments were I should have used PP to remove the orange tape and improve the impression of speed in panning .... see below

I should point out at this stage that I am not a fan of PP beyond minor edits in LR Classic

To put this in context, the day I took this photo it was dull and pouring with rain, the marshals were severely restricting access to the action, so this picture was taken through a hedge and stood upto my ankles in Cow sh*t . Using a 200mm lens and pushing ISO to get a reasonable exposure I was happy to get a half good shot IMHO

Original -
View attachment 477250

After using ChatGPT with 2 instructions 'remove orange tape' then 'improve panning to give better impression of speed whilst keeping car in focus'
View attachment 477251
Click to expand...


Panning is subjective. There is no right or wrong shutter speed to use, and there is no right or wrong amount of motion blur.

Personally I would have removed the orange tape in Photoshop. I would NOT have tried to increase the amount of motion blur using AI, Photoshop, or any other software.
 
I agree with Eucris. Bar the tape, the original looks good to me, the shutter speed captured the motion of the wheels perfectly.
 
Compuwight said:
Last evening I watched the judging of a local photographic competition
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FWIW my take is that, especially in a competition, the image should be 'as was'.
I can maybe understand the removal of the orange tape but it was an intrinsic part of the activity and therefore, for me, should remain.
As for faking the sense of speed, just no!
 
Thanks to all for taking your time to reply.
IMHO the judge's comments and score of my image were heavily biased towards more PP .....
Personally I was happy with the original and would NEVER enter a competition or even publish an Ai image !

I have suggested that future competitions should insist on seeing the original RAW image as well as the entry ....... I await a response
 
PP generally means post processing in a digital photography context - i.e. anything you do to the image after capture, including cropping or resizing.
 
Compuwight said:
IMHO the judge's comments and score of my image were heavily biased towards more PP .....
Click to expand...
I think when it comes to CC judge's scoring it will often come down to the overall quality of the entries as a whole. If you put up an image as it was shot against a well polished/ processed image with no distractions from the intended subject the well polished one will score higher. I've seen some spectacular images score 15/16 out of 20 but the other images in the comp were better in terms of technical perfection, lack of distraction, stronger message etc...

That said in our club you can guarantee the top scorers will be from the usual suspects and the subjects will almost always be birds, hares,(usually shot with gear that costs more than my car) and on the odd occasion a motorcycle or insect. Landscapes almost always do poorly regardless of how good they are (IMHO).

One thing that always gets me is when a judge is inconsistent and or biased. Several of our regular judges come from neighbouring clubs in our area and several of our members are also members of several of the other clubs. It seems they always score higher than the images from people who are only in one club either due to seeing and remembering how these images did in their local comps or (I can only guess) they are friends with each other.

At the end of the day these comps are really just one person's opinion so I try not take scores personally and just enter images I like. If the judge happens to make a critique that helps me improve my photography great but really if I like the image its enough for me.
 
RyanB said:
At the end of the day these comps are really just one person's opinion ...
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This is the problem with all these competitions.

It's slightly better when the entire audience vote, for preference secretly, so you get a clearer view of what the majority like and dislike. I saw this happening when I went to a couple of clubs while working away from home in the 1980s.
 
If I were judging the image I would likely have commented on possibly removing the tape. And if I felt the panning could have been better I would have commented on settings/technique.

I.e. editing is fine to correct things that were otherwise out of your control; but it's not an excuse for not doing the best you can at the time.
 
Compuwight said:
Thanks to all for taking your time to reply.
IMHO the judge's comments and score of my image were heavily biased towards more PP .....
Personally I was happy with the original and would NEVER enter a competition or even publish an Ai image !

I have suggested that future competitions should insist on seeing the original RAW image as well as the entry ....... I await a response
Click to expand...
I occasionally read the rules of competitions, and it seems reasonably common to say that winning entries must submit the raw file before the award is officially confirmed.
 
Who judges the judges to confirm their quilification to make an unbias accessment?. Also should they write down what are their reasons/decisions they make before judging? ie what their are looking for in a photo

Or is it more of I will judge at your club and you can Judge at mine and we both submit winning !!!!! entries at each others?
 
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realspeed said:
Who judges the judges to confirm their quilification to make an unbias accessment?. Also should they write down what are their reasons/decisions they make before judging? ie what their are looking for in a photo

Or is it more of I will judge at your club and you can Judge at mine and we both submit winning !!!!! entries at each others?
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Maybe this is helpful

All Things Judging and Lecturing | Scottish Photographic Federation

www.scottish-photographic-federation.org www.scottish-photographic-federation.org


It seems to share the same rules/guidance as the PAGB uses in England and Wales, but I haven't read it
 
My collective opinion about using cloud based AI like ChatGPT to edit photos is that just encourages the companies buying up all the memory and storage being manufactured for the next couple of years, leaving nothing for the rest of us
 
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realspeed said:
Who judges the judges to confirm their quilification to make an unbias accessment?. Also should they write down what are their reasons/decisions they make before judging? ie what their are looking for in a photo
Click to expand...

In the camera clubs scene it’s really just volunteers giving up their evening to give the club an evening of entertainment. It’s actually a lot of work if you want to do it properly. There’s no qualifications or educational requirements, the quality is mixed, and there’s no consistency. I wouldn’t be too hard on judges though, it’s up to the photographer to take or leave their comments, or if club competitions are detrimental to their photography then to stop entering.
 
benc98 said:
In the camera clubs scene it’s really just volunteers giving up their evening to give the club an evening of entertainment. It’s actually a lot of work if you want to do it properly. There’s no qualifications or educational requirements, the quality is mixed, and there’s no consistency. I wouldn’t be too hard on judges though, it’s up to the photographer to take or leave their comments, or if club competitions are detrimental to their photography then to stop entering.
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I assume there are camera clubs outside those covered by PAGP and SPF, but did you see my post at:

 
myotis said:
I assume there are camera clubs outside those covered by PAGP and SPF, but did you see my post at:

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I’m not really sure if the accreditation means much, the ‘b’ means you’ve attended a judging seminar and given it an go and A probably means you can recite a bunch of received wisdoms. You could probably become PAGB accredited and only ever experienced photography through the club scene and have a narrow knowledge of photography.
 
A problem with any kind of scenario involving comparative assessment is that many of us are intensely competitive. Nobody likes to appear less good than they think they are, and so 'reasons' may be found to soften the lack of success.
 
benc98 said:
I’m not really sure if the accreditation means much, the ‘b’ means you’ve attended a judging seminar and given it an go and A probably means you can recite a bunch of received wisdoms. You could probably become PAGB accredited and only ever experienced photography through the club scene and have a narrow knowledge of photography.
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Maybe not, but it still provides a common reference point, of what is expected from judges and how they are expected to judge.

I'm not sure what people expect from an average camera club, or from entering camera club competitions, and as you point out, the experience expected seems to heavily revolve around camera club experience.
 
myotis said:
... the experience expected seems to heavily revolve around camera club experience.
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To slightly misquote the great Groucho: "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member". :naughty:
 
I've been editing a shot of a Chiffchaff I got earlier today - it's nothing special as the bird was high in a tree and slightly too far away (the usual story). I did my best in Photoshop with the result as below:


Chiffchaff by Mike Smith, on Flickr

Just for fun I loaded it to ChatGPT with the prompt 'Increase the resolution and improve the feather detail on the bird' - it produced the below... it's a completely different bird! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: It looks like a willow warbler to me :headbang: Anyway - I'm out.


??? by Mike Smith, on Flickr
 
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