What is happening with BBC?!

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So basically you are saying that white guys should have a 20m head start in 100m races to make things equal ;)
 
I'd forgotten that life in general is supposed to be an olympic sport and that we should just cull those that aren't as fortunate. :sorry:

edit: Oh, and to answer your question, no, there is no known genetic advantage for africans in running, it's just that they generally gravitate to that as a sport and devote time to practice. Same way that Americans, Canadians, Russians and Fins have no genetic advantage in playing ice hockey, they just are more likely to choose to specialise on it as a sport. (Although I'm sure the race realists will be rushing to point out their ill-conceived 'science' and tell us all about the extra back muscles that african blacks (don't) have.
 
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NikkiA said:
I'd forgotten that life in general is supposed to be an olympic sport and that we should just cull those that aren't as fortunate. :sorry:

edit: Oh, and to answer your question, no, there is no known genetic advantage for africans in running, it's just that they generally gravitate to that as a sport and devote time to practice. Same way that Americans, Canadians, Russians and Fins have no genetic advantage in playing ice hockey, they just are more likely to choose to specialise on it as a sport.
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Genetics clearly does come into play and there is a lot of scientific and genetic evidence to support that.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....what-makes-great-athletes-and-why-it-matters/
 
cambsno said:
So basically you are saying that white guys should have a 20m head start in 100m races to make things equal ;)
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Surely, with the way positive discrimination seems to work, every few sprint races a white guy should be given a podium place automatically? (y)
 
Ah I forgot how being an 'intern' was comparable to an olymic medal. :(

Doesn't this scheme just guarantee someone a 'foot in the door', not even a job. So they get an opportunity to prove themselves? Or has my lack of outrage clouded my judgement? :thinking:

Meanwhile are we all planning on scrapping the guaranteed interview scheme for disabled people? Or access to university for people who's mummy and daddy can't pay the funds up front (I realise we're getting dangerously close to this), of course all scholarships too (scholarships are actually the closest thing there is to this scheme).
 
cambsno said:
So basically you are saying that white guys should have a 20m head start in 100m races to make things equal ;)
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Well taking the source of outrage for what it actually is - I'm saying it's OK for some white guys to get support with training (even though statistically they have very little chance of actually reaching the top anyway)
 
Phil V said:
Well taking the source of outrage for what it actually is - I'm saying it's OK for some white guys to get support with training (even though statistically they have very little chance of actually reaching the top anyway)
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They do already don't they, it's called coaching. Have I missed the point ?
 
Blank_Canvas said:
They do already don't they, it's called coaching. Have I missed the point ?
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You've missed the point.
People were suggesting that giving opportunities to black interns was the same as giving medals to white athletes. My point was that it's actually like coaching white athletes. No-one's guaranteeing anyone a medal (or a top job) - we are just getting people some support.
 
Phil V said:
You've missed the point.
People were suggesting that giving opportunities to black interns was the same as giving medals to white athletes. My point was that it's actually like coaching white athletes. No-one's guaranteeing anyone a medal (or a top job) - we are just getting people some support.
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Yes, I agree that make sense.
 
cambsno said:
Of course they have better budgets, but the sport on terrestrial TV pre Sky was pants. If you are a sports fan Sky are brilliant and you cant get that without paying for it. What did we have pre Sky for football? 1 game per week at most? As a sports fan I would rather pay for great coverage and lots of it than not a lot for not a lot!

All sport since I have had Sky (15 years) has been included, the only PPV has been boxing IIRC.
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ITV4's 6-7hr live coverage of BTCC is pretty good and set to stay to at least 2021, hopefully Sky will never get hold of it.
 
nilagin said:
ITV4's 6-7hr live coverage of BTCC is pretty good and set to stay to at least 2021, hopefully Sky will never get hold of it.
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Agreed.
Also boxing/fight night isn't too bad on terrestrial, although not for the biggest box office fights.

I binned Sky a few years ago & got used to not having it. Only rarely do I regret it.
 
If I had to start paying for Sky, I'd bin it too.
 
NikkiA said:
It should be noted that Northern & Shell are about the only UK media company that has NOT partnered with Creative Access to provide internships for non-white minorities, even the bastions of racism the Daily Mail have non-white only internships via them.

Edit: OTOH, Channel 5 *DO* have a partnership with them, so that's a bit hypocritical of N&S/Desmond isn't it...
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N&S sold Channel 5 some time ago to Viacom, the owner of MTV and Nickelodeon etc.
 
I like to see the best person get the job too but often thats not the case, real racism or sexism not this faux racism many posters on here are complaining of, means that women and BEM's are vastly underrepresented in top management positions in this country.

Or do you simply think they're not good enough?
 
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cambsno said:
So basically you are saying that white guys should have a 20m head start in 100m races to make things equal ;)
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So, your saying white middle class men have the right genetic profile to take the top jobs but women and BEM's do not.

Blank_Canvas said:
Genetics clearly does come into play and there is a lot of scientific and genetic evidence to support that.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....what-makes-great-athletes-and-why-it-matters/
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But genetics aren't everything, sure they play a crucial role and probably without the right genetic makeup you would probably not achieve a pinnacle in any sport. But just as important is the environment, you might have the right genetic makeup but be born into the wrong environment and you'll never reach your potential. For example in the last 5 olympic games combined, less than 20 Iranian women have represented their country in any sport. You can be pretty certain that's not because of genetics..
 
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jakeblu said:
So, your saying white middle class men have the right genetic profile to take the top jobs but women and BEM's do not.


But genetics aren't everything, sure they play a crucial role and probably without the right genetic makeup you would probably not achieve a pinnacle in any sport. But just as important is the environment, you might have the right genetic makeup but be born into the wrong environment and you'll never reach your potential. For example in the last 5 olympic games combined, less than 20 Iranian women have represented their country in any sport. You can be pretty certain that's not because of genetics..
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Of course not and you make s good point. The whole application of PESTEL will define the full answer.
 
jakeblu said:
I like to see the best person get the job too but often thats not the case, real racism or sexism not this faux racism many posters on here are complaining of, means that women and BEM's are vastly underrepresented in top management positions in this country.

Or do you simply think they're not good enough?
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I think its a lot of what went on before and its quite complex. Many of the people in todays top jobs started work in the 70s where sexism was rife and girls expectations were to become a nurse/secretary etc... Now I would argue that in schools boys/girls/white/black all have the same opportunity career wise. So we probably won't see the natural shift for a few years yet. Then you have the subject of babies - at the end of the day many women start families, and that was always a barrier in many cases to a career. Now it is possible to juggle a top career and family but it is hard. It certainly gets in the way - my wife has worked part time for last 8 years now and would find it very difficult to build a career and juggle child care, unless I was to become more of a house-husband. If that comes across as sexist its not meant to - many women don't want or have families and many do juggle being a CEO and a mum, but its less common. So i would say the career path is easier for men, and until biology changes that will always be the case -- To clarify I am not saying don't employ mums! Just that many women will focus more on the family than a career (my wife for example, or a friend of ours who could have a career to rival her husband but doesnt due to family)

The racism or sexism of the past I believe has gone - partly due to the cut and thrust of business. If as a leader you fail, you are out, so you need to build a team who will help you succeed and I cant see any career minded person choosing a poor man over a better woman.

Most young people are not obsessed with sex or race now, so I don't believe there are those ceilings of the past.
 
cambsno said:
I think its a lot of what went on before and its quite complex. Many of the people in todays top jobs started work in the 70s where sexism was rife and girls expectations were to become a nurse/secretary etc... Now I would argue that in schools boys/girls/white/black all have the same opportunity career wise. So we probably won't see the natural shift for a few years yet. Then you have the subject of babies - at the end of the day many women start families, and that was always a barrier in many cases to a career. Now it is possible to juggle a top career and family but it is hard. It certainly gets in the way - my wife has worked part time for last 8 years now and would find it very difficult to build a career and juggle child care, unless I was to become more of a house-husband. If that comes across as sexist its not meant to - many women don't want or have families and many do juggle being a CEO and a mum, but its less common. So i would say the career path is easier for men, and until biology changes that will always be the case -- To clarify I am not saying don't employ mums! Just that many women will focus more on the family than a career (my wife for example, or a friend of ours who could have a career to rival her husband but doesnt due to family)

The racism or sexism of the past I believe has gone - partly due to the cut and thrust of business. If as a leader you fail, you are out, so you need to build a team who will help you succeed and I cant see any career minded person choosing a poor man over a better woman.

Most young people are not obsessed with sex or race now, so I don't believe there are those ceilings of the past.
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And completely blind to the fact that the child has 2 parents, loads of people are CEO and Dad.

This is answered simply? Why did you not presume equal parenting when your child was born?
 
Of course the critical questions to ask, male or female, do I really want to be working 60 hours a week as a Senior Manager / CEO ? How long can I sustain that without burning out ? What's my priority - career or family ?

Of course you can have both but it's not going to be easy and compromises have to be made.
 
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Women start families?
Do it all in their own, do they? o_O:D
 
Unilateral decisions on when a family starts have been known, although some male input is (usually) required.
 
Job applications should be void of names and date of births. What use have they other than to discriminate.

Doesn't help them much in the interview though does it.
 
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rjbell said:
Job applications should void of names and date of births. What use have they other than to discriminate.

Doesn't help them much in the interview though does it.
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You used to attach a 'quality head shot photo' to a CV. Used to be quite profitable until the PC brigade put an end to it for fear of ugly people's CV's ending up in the bin !
 
Blank_Canvas said:
You used to attach a 'quality head shot photo' to a CV. Used to be quite profitable until the PC brigade put an end to it for fear of ugly people's CV's ending up in the bin !
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I wrote my first CV 40 years ago and few more since then, I've never attached a photo to it and was not even aware of the practice outside of the obvious professions.
 
jakeblu said:
I wrote my first CV 40 years ago and few more since then, I've never attached a photo to it and was not even aware of the practice outside of the obvious professions.
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Yep, it was one of the insider tricks to people in the know widely published in books in the 8Os / 90s, two identical CVs yours without a photo, another with a photo. 100 applications, could make the difference between an interview or the shredder.
 
Phil V said:
And completely blind to the fact that the child has 2 parents, loads of people are CEO and Dad.

This is answered simply? Why did you not presume equal parenting when your child was born?
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there are a great many single parent families and the vast majority live with mum not dad. Secondly which answers the other point too, many mums want time off with baby. It was always going to be my wife being the stay at home parent due to me earning more, but even if she was the breadwinner she wanted the time off she had.
 
cambsno said:
there are a great many single parent families and the vast majority live with mum not dad. Secondly which answers the other point too, many mums want time off with baby. It was always going to be my wife being the stay at home parent due to me earning more, but even if she was the breadwinner she wanted the time off she had.
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It's not just about maternity/paternity leave though. Parental conflicts with work hours continues throughout the school years. My wife and I are discovering how prejudice still exists in the job market - whilst my wife took roughly a year off with each child (and I worked to pay the mortgage!) we share nursery drop-off and pick-ups and doctor/dentists appointments etc and I went on all the prospective school tours. Some bosses (both male and female) seem surprised by this.
What's really shocking, though, is that when I apply for jobs and explain that I can only work (usually) a 9-5ish due to childcare commitments, the immediate response is always "can't your wife help?". My wife has never been asked the same question. It is still assumed by many places that the mother will do the parental heavy lifting.
 
Llamaman said:
It's not just about maternity/paternity leave though. Parental conflicts with work hours continues throughout the school years. My wife and I are discovering how prejudice still exists in the job market - whilst my wife took roughly a year off with each child (and I worked to pay the mortgage!) we share nursery drop-off and pick-ups and doctor/dentists appointments etc and I went on all the prospective school tours. Some bosses (both male and female) seem surprised by this.
What's really shocking, though, is that when I apply for jobs and explain that I can only work (usually) a 9-5ish due to childcare commitments, the immediate response is always "can't your wife help?". My wife has never been asked the same question. It is still assumed by many places that the mother will do the parental heavy lifting.
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Which is why I think there are a large number reasons why certain types are under-represented going back to upbringing or cultural differences. You could argue that men are under-represented in the nursing profession and women in plumbing... Or that Afro-caribbeans are less likely to be self employed by whites who in turn are less likely to be self employed by Asians.
 
cambsno said:
Or that Afro-caribbeans are less likely to be self employed by whites who in turn are less likely to be self employed by Asians.
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Intrigued by this idea of being self-employed by someone else.
How does that work, 'cos it sounds like the worst of both worlds. ;) :p
 
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