What is a 'professional' camera...

dd1989

dd1989

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Got me thinking after I read a post on Flickr by a great pro called Kirk Tuck.

irkTuck/photo says:

I think it's funny in this day and age that people still make distinctions between professional cameras and other kinds of cameras. Over 90 % of the work people do "professionally" seems to wind up on the web or printed small. We (professional photogrpahers in general) did wonderful work at the turn of the century with 4 meg cameras (Denis Reggie shot $60,000 weddings with them....) and 6 meg camera with 6 shot raw buffers, etc.

The EP3 blows the doors off them as regards buffer depth, resolution and is at least their equal in handling. Clients are less discerning than ten years ago. You could use a phone for most of the stuff.

So how is it that the EP-3 isn't "professional" enough to do most projects?

"Below Par"???? What is this? Golf?
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Interior with Nikon D100. How did we ever survive?


stellar+kitchen+shot.jpg


kirk tuck said...
What I was trying to say is that each new camera...Nikon D3x or Canon 1dsmk3 or whatever is marketed as an "absolutely MUST HAVE in order to service clients when, in fact, an older 6 megapixel camera was certainly up to the job when it was all that was available......

I'm reviewing old work for a slide show later today and find that many of the images I am drawn to came from "obsolete" cameras like the Kodak DCS 760 and they files are wonderful.

A reminder to myself that technique often trumps new product marketing....
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A professional camera is one that has been built to withstand the knocks a pro will give it on a day-to-day basis. It is likely to have weather sealing and built around a solid metal chassis. All other specs are (near enough) irrelevant
 
arad85 said:
A professional camera is one that has been built to withstand the knocks a pro will give it on a day-to-day basis. It is likely to have weather sealing and built around a solid metal chassis. All other specs are (near enough) irrelevant
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Interesting (not to pick an argument with you!), but for example Olympus E-3/E-5 - solid metal body, extremely weather and dust sealed. It produces amazingly detailed files, yet pros don't pick them because they say it's not full frame/sensor is too small. That argument doesn't bode well with the two quotes I put above.
 
I'd say a professional camera is one that is used by a professional.

If we're talking about camera specs and comparing then obviously a professional will generally want the best image quality they can afford, so will go for the camera that gives that.

Each unique feature adds to the usability and image quality of cameras: weather sealing, full frame, micro adjust, burst rate, buffer, auto focus.

The more features a camera has the more likely you are to get a shot that may not be achievable on a lower spec camera.

The professional is behind the camera though, not the camera itself.
 
Todd said:
Surely a professional camera is the camera that was used to capture the image that the photographer then sold to put food on his table.
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This.

It just happens that a professional grade body stands the photographer a better chance of getting the shot when conditions are less than perfect eg bad weather, low light, when a shot has to be cropped in a lot etc.
 
Oh, and with the current day and age where anyone can pop into tesco and buy a relatively good camera for £100 and get good pics, "professional" pics should be able to outshine them in some respect. As the lower end gets better, the higher end has too as well.
 
i would first agree with the idea that a pro camera is one used by a pro ..

however canon disagree and in order to join there CPS (Canon profesional service) scheme you ahve to have at least a couple of 1d cameras or equiv and some L glass

so they define profesional by the camera/lens .. not its use
 
dd1989 said:
Interesting (not to pick an argument with you!), but for example Olympus E-3/E-5 - solid metal body, extremely weather and dust sealed. It produces amazingly detailed files, yet pros don't pick them because they say it's not full frame/sensor is too small. That argument doesn't bode well with the two quotes I put above.
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There's also support. A pro tog with Canon equipment can expect a 3 day turnaround for broken equipment.

You ahve to be careful on sensor size vs resolution. For any given technology, the larger the sensor, the better the resultant photo (generally) as you have to magnify it less to get to a certain size. It's why portrait & landscape togs use FF or MFT. Paparazzi tend to want high speed and great focusing - something the 1 series cameras will do better than E3/E5 at a guess.
 
My personal thoughts on this is, a pro camera will keep changing depending on where the bar is set. Right now the 1d takes the canon crown due to having the extra features of the rest of the lineup and being priced higher to reflect this fact. The other cameras seem to have some kind of tradeoff making you wish for that extra feature. Ten years ago a 450d would have been a pro camera as it would have more bells and whistles than anything else that was available. I think it's pretty subjective though, and more to do with marketing than actual performance. I see no reason why a good photographer couldn't use a 450d for just about any job that could come up. A "true pro" will have the ingenuity to work around any limitations of his tools, at the same time a "true pro" will grab the right tool for the job when he can, and sometimes thats a "pro" body.
Not sure that made much sense so I will stop there :lol:
 
KIPAX said:
i would first agree with the idea that a pro camera is one used by a pro ..

however canon disagree and in order to join there CPS (Canon profesional service) scheme you ahve to have at least a couple of 1d cameras or equiv and some L glass

so they define profesional by the camera/lens .. not its use
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Yep. Same with Nikon. There is no grey area for me. The term 'pro-camera' stems from the fact that some companies have chosen to name their camera that. Whether it's feature driven, user driven or marketing driven doesn't really matter. In the eyes of the manufacturers some cameras are pro and some aren't and when somebody uses the term pro-camera, this is what I think of.
 
My old college tutor had a saying when someone in the class asked him what the "best pro camera is"

"The best professional camera to have, is the one you have with you at that moment in time"

I think that you will need better built camera's, 1D/5D etc, to suit certain job's, such as photographing polar bear's in the Arctic.
 
arad85 said:
There's also support. A pro tog with Canon equipment can expect a 3 day turnaround for broken equipment.

You ahve to be careful on sensor size vs resolution. For any given technology, the larger the sensor, the better the resultant photo (generally) as you have to magnify it less to get to a certain size. It's why portrait & landscape togs use FF or MFT. Paparazzi tend to want high speed and great focusing - something the 1 series cameras will do better than E3/E5 at a guess.
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FPS maybe, but then you'd be buying a SOny SLT for that :D Focus wise, wouldn't be so sure, E-3 and E-5 have lightning fast AF, Oly claim it's *the* fastest with their pro lenses.

It's interesting that 'extra' features are being mentioned. I think it's the exact opposite, a pro camera should have direct access to main controls, and shouldn't have any extra features!
 
It's a package thing. I bought Canon originally as I was doing astrophotography and Canons were (are?) widely regarded as the best supported DSLRs for astrophotography. I say best supported, not necessarily the best technically ;)
 
dd1989 said:
FPS maybe, but then you'd be buying a SOny SLT for that :D Focus wise, wouldn't be so sure, E-3 and E-5 have lightning fast AF, Oly claim it's *the* fastest with their pro lenses.

It's interesting that 'extra' features are being mentioned. I think it's the exact opposite, a pro camera should have direct access to main controls, and shouldn't have any extra features!
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I personally don't think the feature list make any difference. In fact I don't think a 'pro camera' has anything to do with whether a pro should, could or would use it. It's purely a label applied by some manufactures to indicate they cover them under their professional schemes.
 
KIPAX said:
i would first agree with the idea that a pro camera is one used by a pro ..

however canon disagree and in order to join there CPS (Canon profesional service) scheme you ahve to have at least a couple of 1d cameras or equiv and some L glass

so they define profesional by the camera/lens .. not its use
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If that is true, then that has nothing to do with photographic skill or whether or not you are a pro. It has more to do with elitism, exclusivity and how much money you have.
Anyone with deep pockets and very little talent could fit the bill:shrug:
 
If you look at the Canon range,the "pro" cameras will have higher specifications, better build quality, longer expected shutter lives, and a lack of "muppet" settings.
 
andy700 said:
If that is true, then that has nothing to do with photographic skill or whether or not you are a pro. It has more to do with elitism, exclusivity and how much money you have.
Anyone with deep pockets and very little talent could fit the bill:shrug:
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You need 2 bodies and 3 lenses to join. The first tier is open to anyone with at least two xxD (40D and above). You will also need to own 3 qualifying lenses which include the 17-55 EFS, 10-20EF-S and 70-200F4L.

The service is aimed at professional photographers and I personally don't think that's a high barrier (the lens lineup is sensible and two bodies from the xxD range).
 
arad85 said:
You need 2 bodies and 3 lenses to join. The first tier is open to anyone with at least two xxD (40D and above). You will also need to own 3 qualifying lenses which include the 17-55 EFS, 10-20EF-S and 70-200F4L.

The service is aimed at professional photographers and I personally don't think that's a high barrier (the lens lineup is sensible and two bodies from the xxD range).
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That has confused me even more, because I would have thought that a full frame sensor is a requirement for pro cameras, and a 50D is a crop sensor. From a pro point of view, resolution and low light performance would be right at the top of the list.
 
the 1d series are most definitely pro cameras and they are not full frame.
 
andy700 said:
From a pro point of view, resolution and low light performance would be right at the top of the list.
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Why do you say that?
 
Surely it's largely dependent on the type of photography? As someone else mentioned, press photographers don't need full frame, nor do they need all those pixels. I've seen some outstanding shots taken by a press photographer with a very old Nikon, can't remember the model, but it had 2MP. They were outstanding because he's a first class press photographer and because he totally filled the frame with each shot.

But I'm a commercial photographer and although I always fill the frame (no point in paying for pixels only to crop them out again) I do need a full frame, most of the time. Part of the reason for this is the image quality, another is that I often need to be able to control the depth of field properly, and another is that I sometimes need my wideangle lenses to behave like wideangle lenses.

That means either a D3 or a D700, which are very similar in performance.

But for some shots, a Fuji S5 Pro is fine, and I doubt whether many people would regard that as a true Pro camera - but for some applications, it can produce superb quality.
 
There is actually no such thing as a "pro" camera, there are cameras that professional photographers prefer to use, the definiation of a professional photographer is one who receives money from their photographic work.

A camera is an inanimate object therefore cannot be defined as amateur or professional
Realspeed
 
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realspeed said:
There is actually no such thing as a "pro" camera, there are cameras that professional photographers prefer to use,
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:plusone: Its not the camera that is professional, it's the end product produced by the photographer
 
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Todd said:
Surely a professional camera is the camera that was used to capture the image that the photographer then sold to put food on his table.
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100% correct

KIPAX said:
i would first agree with the idea that a pro camera is one used by a pro ..

however canon disagree and in order to join there CPS (Canon profesional service) scheme you ahve to have at least a couple of 1d cameras or equiv and some L glass
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Not 100% correct for example, to get siver CPS membershinp in the usa

Two (2) EOS 20D class digital SLR cameras and above, and three (3) eligible lenses OROne (1) EOS-1D Mark IV or EOS-1Ds Mark III digital SLR camera, and three (3) eligible lenses

3 lenses that quailfy

EF 20mm 2.8
EF 85 mm 1.8
EF-S 10-22
 
realspeed said:
There is actually no such thing as a "pro" camera, there are cameras that professional photographers prefer to use, the definiation of a professional photographer is one who receives money from their photographic work.

A camera is an inanimate object therefore cannot be defined as amateur or professional
Realspeed
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How pedantic!

Maybe we should also consider rebranding 'running shoes' as 'shoes for those who run' as clearly shoes don't actually run on their own.

Like it or not, Nikon and Canon (and maybe others?) can sell you a camera that they have chosen to describe as 'pro'. Ergo pro-cameras exist even if some pro photographers don't use them and some amateur ones do.
 
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A pro camera is one designed for the professional market, a consumer camera is one designed for the consumer market.

A professional may not require a professional camera for their work, but given they are designed specifically to provide features to professionals; they just so happen to have a tendency to be more attractive to professionals than consumer cameras.
 
Can a professional use any camera ? Well the answer is clearly yes.

Do manufacturer class camera in different group, again of course they do.
For a long time Canon had clearly defined groups

xxxD Consumer
xxD Prosumer (Semi Professional)
xD Professional

This may have blurred a little with the introduction of the 7D as it's more prosumer (but at the very top) than Professional.
 
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Surely the best professional tool is marketing and getting clients.

Everything else comes below that. Doesn't matter if you have an ancient Canon D60 as long as you have the client. Most client's won't care what you're using as long as it fulfills their requirements.

I personally don't like calling a camera a professional camera, I know it's the case and it makes sense to separate it out like that but it makes me doubt myself when I use cameras such as the D7k that it would be up to the job when it most definitely is. But that's marketing for you, they get the big bucks because it works!
 
I thought the definition of a pro camera is one that is too expensive for amateurs to buy so they don't turn up somewhere with better kit :)
 
The O2 Academy in Newcastle where the bands play gigs, say a pro camera, is a camera with a detachable lens.

Phil
 
acetone said:
Not 100% correct for example, to get siver CPS membershinp in the usa

Two (2) EOS 20D class digital SLR cameras and above, and three (3) eligible lenses OROne (1) EOS-1D Mark IV or EOS-1Ds Mark III digital SLR camera, and three (3) eligible lenses

3 lenses that quailfy

EF 20mm 2.8
EF 85 mm 1.8
EF-S 10-22
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100% correct for Europe though. Canon EU/UK and Canon US are two totally separate companies and you've conveniently forgotten to mention that CPS in the Americas is a pay to use service, unlike here where it's complimentary.
 
Adam_M said:
If that's the case, this is probably the first time I've thanked Fuji for making the X100 a fixed lens jobby!
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Well, you're not going to get anywhere in stadium crowds with a 35mm equivalent; they're usually more worried about the 300mm+ equivalent lenses especially on cameras that can handle the low light.
 
This whole thing is a bit like the argument amongst golfers regarding golf clubs, or more specifically irons. A lot of golfers when they reach a certain level in the game, will consider that they will need a set of forged steel, bladed irons (Old technology) to play well, instead of so called "game improvement" clubs, which they now consider below their elevated status in the game.
The truth of the matter is, that a good player will beat a bad player, irrespective of the clubs (If they are of the same standard), and the same applies to photographic equipment, where a top photographer will take better images regardless of the camera in his hands.
 
i doenont matter which camera a professional has , a professional should have poeple skills , and an eye for a photo.
a professional requires

trust in themselves to get the images
generate trust in them by others
know there equiptment
good poeple skills
able to think outside the box
and be adapable.

Cheers Steve
 
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