What editing is acceptable?

D

dissatisfied

Suspended / Banned
Messages
18
Name
Natalie
Edit My Images
No
Hi all. I am not a professional photographer, but I LOVE photos and have an amateur interest. However, my question relates to some photos I paid a 'professional photographer' to take.

He quoted me £150 to take photos of my daughter's christening, to include editing, a photo book, and what I thought was all images on a disc but has turned out to be a DVD slide show. I understood that for the price he was quoting he would probably not be the best photographer but I looked at some of his wedding photography which looked good to me, and thought that he was so cheap in part because he was just starting out as a professional (I believe the term used is GWC?). I accdepted his quote and everything seemed fine on the day.

However, I have now received the proofs by email (129 images), from which I am to select 60 for the photo book. Whilst some photos are acceptable, others are extremely amateurish, blurred etc. But what is the worst is his poor attempt at editing. The problem, I felt, was that he didn't take enough shots of what he was trying to capture so that he could select the best from the group, instead choosing to take one image, then if it wasn't right he could edit it to make it acceptable.

I don't know whether he was so arrogant that he believed he was so good at editing or whether he was just being lazy but the results are far from what I deem to be acceptable. On one shot I said 'oh no, I blinked!' and was alarmed when he responded that it didn't matter as if he had a 'pair of eyes' he would be able to sustitute them for the closed eyes!

The results are shocking. He has done this to myself, my daughter and some of my guests on the proofs. The people do not look like themselves! On some, the eyes are too big, placed in the wrong place or aren't even so that they appear lopsided. It is blarringly obvious to which photos he has done this. My friends and I had a game of 'spot the blinkers' and had a good laugh, but the truth is, I spent alot of money getting the day right, I will never get it back, and I do not even have what I consider 'good' photos to memorialise the day!

So my question is this - do you think that replacing eyes on blinked photos is an acceptable practice for a professional? I am willing to chalk this one up to experience, but only if I receive a CD with all images as I am not willing to pay him a further £100 for this when I am highly dissatisfied with the quality of his work. But as I trusted him, these are the only images of a day which I can't get back.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Unfortunately, I can't as they are copyright protected so I can't copy them. Believe me though, they are laughable! The people don't look human!
 
Sounds very unacceptable and unprofessional in my eyes (sorry! :p). I'm only an amateur, and only done one tiny paid shoot (didn't include people), but I would never swap out someones eyes with another pair, let alone several of them.

And if I knew someone had blinked during a photo, it takes what? 5 seconds to take another one? I usually shoot continuous with groups anyway as I know with a larger group, there's bound to be a blinker.

Legally I'm not sure what you can do, but I definitely would be complaining of some sort.
 
Razor-BladE said:
Sounds very unacceptable and unprofessional in my eyes (sorry! :p). I'm only an amateur, and only done one tiny paid shoot (didn't include people), but I would never swap out someones eyes with another pair, let alone several of them.

And if I knew someone had blinked during a photo, it takes what? 5 seconds to take another one? I usually shoot continuous with groups anyway as I know with a larger group, there's bound to be a blinker.

Legally I'm not sure what you can do, but I definitely would be complaining of some sort.
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opening eyes is an acceptable edit, and if done well you'll never be able to tell. Admittedly I'd rather shoot again to avoid the time of doing so
 
How about if you can tell? And i mean to the extent that the person who has been edited doesn't look like themselves or even looks like they are disfigured?
 
dissatisfied said:
How about if you can tell? And i mean to the extent that the person who has been edited doesn't look like themselves or even looks like they are disfigured?
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if its done well you shouldn't be able to tell, done badly's (so you can tell) not acceptable
 
Yes its an acceptable edit, but surely only if the 2 shots are the same, i.e when you take multiple shots of each group shot, just so you know you've got everyones eyes open?

I wouldnt try and do it from 2 unrelated photos, but if an identical shot, i'd even swap peoples heads if i needed to

:whistling:
 
Adey said:
Yes its an acceptable edit, but surely only if the 2 shots are the same, i.e when you take multiple shots of each group shot, just so you know you've got everyones eyes open?

I wouldnt try and do it from 2 unrelated photos, but if an identical shot, i'd even swap peoples heads if i needed to

:whistling:
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This is what I don't understand about his method. On some of the edited shots, he has taken 2 very similar shots, almost identical, but on the one he has removed the blink, it is so obvious what he has done. On some, I'm not even sure if it's the same person's eyes he has used! It is THAT bad. I really wish i could show you so you could see what I mean.

We're not even talking on large groups. He has sone this on photos where there are 2 or 3 people in it.

If I were him, I'd be too embarrassed to include the 'blinked' shots. Like I say, some of the edited eye shots are almost exactly the same of a shot where nobody blinked so why include both?! Obviously in this case, I can choose the unedited image but there are others where he has done this and its the only one. For example there was only one shot taken during the whole day of myself and my partner and our children but is ruined because he has given me one VERY large eye, the other looks ok though.

He was pretty bad at organising people for shots too, and then when he did, he would take one photo only. :shrug:
 
In essence, ALL editing is acceptable (within context). However, bad photography, followed by bad editing is unacceptable. If you paid for a service, that service hasn't been provided, no matter how much of a 'bargain'. If there aren't enough satisfactory images to complete the contract - Ask for your money back!

The advice I always give to newcomers is 'if you can't guarantee results, you shouldn't be charging'. Plenty of people disagree with me, but this is exactly why I say it. IMO - a choice between Uncle Bob as a freebie and paying a proper amount for someone that knows what they're doing should be straightforward without muddying the waters with someone that's cheap and can't be guaranteed to fulfil a contract.
 
Phil V said:
In essence, ALL editing is acceptable (within context). However, bad photography, followed by bad editing is unacceptable. If you paid for a service, that service hasn't been provided, no matter how much of a 'bargain'. If there aren't enough satisfactory images to complete the contract - Ask for your money back!

The advice I always give to newcomers is 'if you can't guarantee results, you shouldn't be charging'. Plenty of people disagree with me, but this is exactly why I say it. IMO - a choice between Uncle Bob as a freebie and paying a proper amount for someone that knows what they're doing should be straightforward without muddying the waters with someone that's cheap and can't be guaranteed to fulfil a contract.
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In hindsight, I wish I'd paid a bit more for someone better but then I did do some research and looked at the other event photography he has done which I thought looked good. I'm also wishing I'd taken my own photos alongside what he did as I didn't feel he included all the shots I wanted. But, lesson learned.

I'm not sure where to take it from here really. I feel more confident after speaking to you all that the photos are unacceptable and that I should tell him so. However, despite the bad ones, there are still some good images, and either way, they are the only images there are of the day so ideally i would like them in some form. I'm guessing that if I asked for my money back I would end up with nothing.

He has given me a price list so that I can order prints and the CD would cost £100 but I don't want to give him a single penny more when I am so unhappy with the quality of his service. He has also given me a passcode to the proofs on his website which he said I am free to give to my guests so that they can order prints but I am too embarrassed to let anyone else see them! I plan to ask him if I can have the CD by way of compensation and to not bother with the photobook. Do you think this would be a reasonable request in the situation? He is a member of SWPP, not sure if this helps my position or not.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Any editing is acceptable, but really it needs to be seemless so you can't spot the edits.

Have you spoken to the photographer about the edits and voiced your concerns about the other images. How many are acceptable and are there any that would be suitable to print/put in a photo book?

Was there any agreed number of shots that would be provided?

It may be that you explain you are disappointed, accept the few that are good and get a reduction based on this.
 
dissatisfied said:
He has also given me a passcode to the proofs on his website which he said I am free to give to my guests so that they can order prints but I am too embarrassed to let anyone else see them! I plan to ask him if I can have the CD by way of compensation and to not bother with the photobook. Do you think this would be a reasonable request in the situation? He is a member of SWPP, not sure if this helps my position or not.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Oh now we need his website & the passcode so we can all have a look!:p

To the original point I think you need to voice your concerns with the photographer & see what he says, I think recieving the disc, or your money back is fair compensation.
 
ukglyn said:
Oh now we need his website & the passcode so we can all have a look!:p

To the original point I think you need to voice your concerns with the photographer & see what he says, I think recieving the disc, or your money back is fair compensation.
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Am I allowed to put the web address and passcode on? Or does it breach forum rules? I would love to know whether anyone else thinks the photos are of an acceptable standard or not. At the very least you can play 'spot the blinker'!

I have emailed him to ask if I will be receiving a disc with the images but he has not yet replied. If he says no then I plan to voice my concerns and hope that he will agree.
 
Byker28i said:
Any editing is acceptable, but really it needs to be seemless so you can't spot the edits.

Have you spoken to the photographer about the edits and voiced your concerns about the other images. How many are acceptable and are there any that would be suitable to print/put in a photo book?

Was there any agreed number of shots that would be provided?

It may be that you explain you are disappointed, accept the few that are good and get a reduction based on this.
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I haven't told him yet as I am waiting to see if a CD is included or not. If not, then I plan to let him know my concerns. There are some that I think are good, not enough to fill a 40 page photo book though.

I did sign a contract but in the spaces where he was supposed to write how many images were included, it has been left blank. As he was supposed to make a photo book and has asked me to choose 60 images, then I am guessing that this was the minimum number of good shots he was aiming for. Part of the problem is, that although there are 129 images, many of them are duplicates, ie colour, black and white, colourised, or series of similar images. I could probably choose 60 of the best ones, but whats the point in having the same photo repeated in different colours or several photos of the same group of people? There certainly isn't enough to make a good photo book.
 
I don't think you should post the link Nat. All it's going to be is potential trouble for the board with people probably ripping this guy's work to bits. Even if it's well justified it's not what we're here for .

There's nothing wrong with any editing providing that it's properly done and not detectable, so it does sound like this work falls short of acceptable.

The mistake you've made is in paying for these shots before you've checked them over and been satisfied with them. If he doesn't sell these shots to you there isn't another market for them so you'd at least have had a chance of a substantial discount or forcing him to do a better job of the editing.

You have to sort this out with the photographer one way or the other. If you can't get satisfaction and the shots are as bad as you say then see a solicitor, you may well have a case against him.

EDIT

As things stand this guy retains copyright in the images so no-one else can help you with this. Give him the chance to put the images right, then if he can't or won't, tell him you intend to sue. He may well be prepared to hand over copyright to you (in writing) to get rid of the problem and so another photographer can have a look at them.
 
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