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Ha ha ha!
I thought I was bad Jo but there ain't no way I'm lobbing my car keys in a bowl round here
Thats a shame, we could have gone out shooting foxes in the woods for the evening...........
What do you want from the professionals?
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Thats a shame, we could have gone out shooting foxes in the woods for the evening...........
Spiritflier
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Ha ha ha!
I thought I was bad Jo but there ain't no way I'm lobbing my car keys in a bowl round here
<sniff>
Some people just aren't any fun!
It's just another kind of 'off-camera flashing' Ali! 
Si
Jo
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Ha ha ha!
I thought I was bad Jo but there ain't no way I'm lobbing my car keys in a bowl round here
that was pretty mild in comparison to what I just typed up in the Gear Sobbery[sic] (< always wanted to type [sic], did I do it right?) thread 
david1701
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ha ha ha you lot! I don't mind a group hug but I've had to put up with DD discussing shooting boudoir as a "shoot in knickers" on FB today and you can imagine how that one degenerated!
maybe he normally shoots out of them
M
MarkyP
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What an absolute bag of doggy doo.
I'm sorry and I'm sure the Moderators will jump in slap my wrist but thats my initial thoughts on this thread.
Before I get shouted down and whinged at, let me explain myself.
For me the word PROFESSIONAL does NOT reflect on whether you do the job part time, full time or no time. The word PROFESSIONAL is reflective on HOW you do the job.
Everyone is bitching about "them and us" - there is NO "them and us".
If you are a part timer and get a paying client, who's needs you service to the best of your ability, then have you not acted in a PROFESSIONAL manner? If they are happy to pay for your product or service with hard earned beer tokens, have you not fulfilled the "PROFESSIONAL" ethos?
Trust me, I have been retained by full time photographers to assist them with their business, to help increase their turnover and sales, and my starting point has always been Customer Service because it has been shocking. Their PROFESSIONAL approach to their clients has been terrible. On the flip side I recently did some work for a photographer who was only working part time in photography and their PROFESSIONALISM was jaw droppingly good. So who was the professional huh?
Being a PROFESSIONAL is a state of mind, not a statement of how many hours you spend each day doing the job.
Now, onto the original reason for this post.
Everybody, yes EVERYBODY, you, me, him over in the corner has something to give. We all have our little nuggets of information and skills, you might be a landscape photographer who can show someone who hasn't a clue the basics, or a wedding photographer who has a unique way of doing a wedding, or a portrait photographer who has extensive knowledge on lighting patterns - we all having something to share and it matters not one jot whether you are full or part time.
My particular speciality is the business side of a photography business, and I openly and gladly shared that information and knowledge at last weekends Help For Heroes events.
All i did was share a brief insight into what has worked for me over the last 20 years. Does that mean I am the ultimate expert? No. All it means is that I have one speciality in one particular chosen field. One that I gladly shared.
What I object to is when someone gives out information, not an opinion, but what is perceieved to be god given correct information that may affect someones life or business when in fact it is wrong.
Critiquing has already been mentioned. The "nice image" approach will make you feel good up until the point your paying client says "That is crap and I ain't paying for it". At that point you will hate, with a passion, the person on that Forum who told you it was a nice image. Critiquing is a skill, it is a skill that can only be bourne of experience and knowledge. Correct technical critquing will help you improve as a photographer, will help you improve your skill sets, will allow you to take better images the next time. "Nice image" is nothing more than an opinion on whether the person viewing likes the images or not. Nice image could get you into that situation where you are faced with a very angry client who has paid you to do a job that you hve not deleivered. Nice image is a very dangerous thing.
If you like an image, why not express your "Nice image" with some useful information to accompany it? Why not say "I like your image because........".
This is so much more useful to the OP especially when you say "I don't like your image because........."
If you ask for critique then please do be prepared to have it knocked down. Yes, I totally agree 100% that the critique should be professional (ooooh that word again), delivered correctly to the OP and most importantly be RIGHT.
I personally don't give two smarties who critiques my work, as long as they are qualified to do so. I also don't mind people expressing an "Opinion" on my work as long as they qualify their statements - nice image tells me NOTHING!
Zoe is opinionated, brash, sometimes a Royal pain in the backside, but I can assure you of one thing, she is honest. Like her or not, you will always get honesty from her, and for me, thats what is needed. Ok, her delivery methods could at times be a bit more polished, but at least you know you have a considered and knowledgable opinion. If you ask her a question you will always get an honest answer. The old adage applies, if you don't like the answer, maybe you shouldn't have asked the question.
I like to call Zoe a friend, and we get together on a regular basis, and I have only ever found her to be passionate about the photography industry and raising the standards.
That I can't fault at all!
Ok, I'm gonna go get my wrist slapped now
I'm sorry and I'm sure the Moderators will jump in slap my wrist but thats my initial thoughts on this thread.
Before I get shouted down and whinged at, let me explain myself.
For me the word PROFESSIONAL does NOT reflect on whether you do the job part time, full time or no time. The word PROFESSIONAL is reflective on HOW you do the job.
Everyone is bitching about "them and us" - there is NO "them and us".
If you are a part timer and get a paying client, who's needs you service to the best of your ability, then have you not acted in a PROFESSIONAL manner? If they are happy to pay for your product or service with hard earned beer tokens, have you not fulfilled the "PROFESSIONAL" ethos?
Trust me, I have been retained by full time photographers to assist them with their business, to help increase their turnover and sales, and my starting point has always been Customer Service because it has been shocking. Their PROFESSIONAL approach to their clients has been terrible. On the flip side I recently did some work for a photographer who was only working part time in photography and their PROFESSIONALISM was jaw droppingly good. So who was the professional huh?
Being a PROFESSIONAL is a state of mind, not a statement of how many hours you spend each day doing the job.
Now, onto the original reason for this post.
Everybody, yes EVERYBODY, you, me, him over in the corner has something to give. We all have our little nuggets of information and skills, you might be a landscape photographer who can show someone who hasn't a clue the basics, or a wedding photographer who has a unique way of doing a wedding, or a portrait photographer who has extensive knowledge on lighting patterns - we all having something to share and it matters not one jot whether you are full or part time.
My particular speciality is the business side of a photography business, and I openly and gladly shared that information and knowledge at last weekends Help For Heroes events.
All i did was share a brief insight into what has worked for me over the last 20 years. Does that mean I am the ultimate expert? No. All it means is that I have one speciality in one particular chosen field. One that I gladly shared.
What I object to is when someone gives out information, not an opinion, but what is perceieved to be god given correct information that may affect someones life or business when in fact it is wrong.
Critiquing has already been mentioned. The "nice image" approach will make you feel good up until the point your paying client says "That is crap and I ain't paying for it". At that point you will hate, with a passion, the person on that Forum who told you it was a nice image. Critiquing is a skill, it is a skill that can only be bourne of experience and knowledge. Correct technical critquing will help you improve as a photographer, will help you improve your skill sets, will allow you to take better images the next time. "Nice image" is nothing more than an opinion on whether the person viewing likes the images or not. Nice image could get you into that situation where you are faced with a very angry client who has paid you to do a job that you hve not deleivered. Nice image is a very dangerous thing.
If you like an image, why not express your "Nice image" with some useful information to accompany it? Why not say "I like your image because........".
This is so much more useful to the OP especially when you say "I don't like your image because........."
If you ask for critique then please do be prepared to have it knocked down. Yes, I totally agree 100% that the critique should be professional (ooooh that word again), delivered correctly to the OP and most importantly be RIGHT.
I personally don't give two smarties who critiques my work, as long as they are qualified to do so. I also don't mind people expressing an "Opinion" on my work as long as they qualify their statements - nice image tells me NOTHING!
Zoe is opinionated, brash, sometimes a Royal pain in the backside, but I can assure you of one thing, she is honest. Like her or not, you will always get honesty from her, and for me, thats what is needed. Ok, her delivery methods could at times be a bit more polished, but at least you know you have a considered and knowledgable opinion. If you ask her a question you will always get an honest answer. The old adage applies, if you don't like the answer, maybe you shouldn't have asked the question.
I like to call Zoe a friend, and we get together on a regular basis, and I have only ever found her to be passionate about the photography industry and raising the standards.
That I can't fault at all!
Ok, I'm gonna go get my wrist slapped now
spxxxx
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Sorry Mark - whilst i agree on most of what you have put .... this last quoted bit hasn't been shown in this thread by acting in a "professional" manner.
Spitting your dummy out isn't "professional"
And whatever your opinion on what a professional is - the general view held by the majority is that when someone starts charging and certainly when they are full time - they are considered professional.
Right or wrong it doesn't matter as it is just a name - so in the context of many of the references in thsi thread - the name / title is irrelevant
M
MarkyP
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So you're in fact saying what most of us have said!
No one was bitching about 'them and us', we were however saying it could be what happens if thread like this continue to appear.
Or am I totally misreading your post?
Jo,
Posts like this, when approached in an adult manner are brilliant. Differences in opinions are discussed and debated resulting in everyone getting a benefit. Posts like this should be welcomed but only if everyone agrees that opinons differ.
Its a great ole world we live in
M
MarkyP
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boyfalldown
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Mark,
I've no doubt what so ever as to Zoe's passion, enthusiasm or dedication. The reason I didn't post on the thread earlier is from the title and first post (intended or not) it came across as very 'them and us', and more then a bit 'I'm trying my best but my subjects won't listen'
Its an open forum, and she has an awful lot of valuable advice to give, but sometimes giving the appearance of being willing to learn or change your opinion doesn't hurt either, it is a discussion forum after all (note I said appearance). People on here come because the wish to talk about photography because of a love of it, not because its their only income.
Her crit is invaluable, but TBH I don't think her honesty there or the way she delivers it causes the issues she has.
Hugh
I've no doubt what so ever as to Zoe's passion, enthusiasm or dedication. The reason I didn't post on the thread earlier is from the title and first post (intended or not) it came across as very 'them and us', and more then a bit 'I'm trying my best but my subjects won't listen'
Its an open forum, and she has an awful lot of valuable advice to give, but sometimes giving the appearance of being willing to learn or change your opinion doesn't hurt either, it is a discussion forum after all (note I said appearance). People on here come because the wish to talk about photography because of a love of it, not because its their only income.
Her crit is invaluable, but TBH I don't think her honesty there or the way she delivers it causes the issues she has.
Hugh
mercedes
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Hopefully the air is clearing on this one now . . . But if I may offer my take on this?
I guess a few 'pros' see becoming members of forums as just another form of marketing.
Hang around long enough to gain street cred for volunteering advice and crit, but as a prelude to selling services to the amateur members who wish to improve.
Nothing wrong with this as it is good business sense, but there are just as many semi/skilled photographers who want nothing more than to share their passion and techniques.
I'm one of them
(watch my DVD for full details, available from . . .)
I guess a few 'pros' see becoming members of forums as just another form of marketing.
Hang around long enough to gain street cred for volunteering advice and crit, but as a prelude to selling services to the amateur members who wish to improve.
Nothing wrong with this as it is good business sense, but there are just as many semi/skilled photographers who want nothing more than to share their passion and techniques.
I'm one of them
(watch my DVD for full details, available from . . .
)
Jo
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I would agree with this also. More evident in those that insist on copy and pasting the link to their website at the bottom of every post incase they haven't typed enough to make their sig appear
Spiritflier
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I guess the crux of this whole issue is really what does constitute 'professional'. I'm not going there 'cos it's already been done to death but what I will say is that in my short time here, I've found the thoughts and advice of many members on here to be of very high value and by its very nature, completely professional.
This place is an absolute goldmine of (mainly) good information and whether it's coming from Zoe, Ali, Simon, Mark, Gary or anyone else, it's STILL good information. Sometimes the message can get lost in the delivery but at the end of the day, we're all here for one reason...
Si
This place is an absolute goldmine of (mainly) good information and whether it's coming from Zoe, Ali, Simon, Mark, Gary or anyone else, it's STILL good information. Sometimes the message can get lost in the delivery but at the end of the day, we're all here for one reason...
Si
M
MarkyP
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Hopefully the air is clearing on this one now . . . But if I may offer my take on this?
I guess a few 'pros' see becoming members of forums as just another form of marketing.
Hang around long enough to gain street cred for volunteering advice and crit, but as a prelude to selling services to the amateur members who wish to improve.
Nothing wrong with this as it is good business sense, but there are just as many semi/skilled photographers who want nothing more than to share their passion and techniques.
I'm one of them
(watch my DVD for full details, available from . . .
Applies to someone I know who isn't a pro. He went and did a training course, three weeks after finishing the course he had his stall out touting his new found abilities as a "Photography Trainer" churning out the exact same stuff he had leant less than a month previously.
Wrong? heck yes, but people pay to go on it and end up wasting their money.
purpleclouds
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Yea, near as dammit! Had a game Saturday, last night, tonight and tomorrow night... would have as well on the Sunday but I was otherwise engaged
I've been shooting for them since New Year, and things are looking promising (well, from my side they are anyway
)
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Hopefully the air is clearing on this one now . . . But if I may offer my take on this?
I guess a few 'pros' see becoming members of forums as just another form of marketing.
Hang around long enough to gain street cred for volunteering advice and crit, but as a prelude to selling services to the amateur members who wish to improve.
Nothing wrong with this as it is good business sense, but there are just as many semi/skilled photographers who want nothing more than to share their passion and techniques.
I'm one of them
(watch my DVD for full details, available from . . .
I would agree with this also. More evident in those that insist on copy and pasting the link to their website at the bottom of every post incase they haven't typed enough to make their sig appear
Definitely agree with that.
POAH
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I've been debating whether to post again in here tonight. Just come in from work, and I'm surprised how much this has kicked off :shake:
Just feeling a little bit responsible because I was the one to bring up the "them and us divide".
I posted what I thought was a constructive response to the opening question and IMO (and only my opinion) the phrasing of the thread title seemed to promote that "them and us" mindset.
And I think it's that mindset (or rather the perception of that mindset) that lies behind a lot of the arguments on here.
It wasn't meant in anyway to be a dig at Zoe or any other of the pros on here, although it seems that it has been taken that way.
Simon, I don't think that's the case at all.
I don't know who all the pros on here are, but I don't think this thread has done any harm to the vast majority of posters.
Most of the comments have been honest & constructive and have led to a sensible if slightly heated debate.
My opinion is what it is on the opening post and if it's prompted a useful exchange of views that's only a good thing.
I just think it's a shame if it's kicked off a debate that's led to the loss of a member.
On the other hand, if we're saying that people asking for C&C should expect to receive just that . . . surely somebody starting a thread like this should expect honest feedback in the same way.
I don't really understand :shrug:
Just a little confused and disappointed by Zoe's reaction - and feeling a bit guilty because I started this line of thinking.
(I've edited this twice now to reword bits, so I'll shut up now before I dig myself into a hole)
Just feeling a little bit responsible because I was the one to bring up the "them and us divide".
I posted what I thought was a constructive response to the opening question and IMO (and only my opinion) the phrasing of the thread title seemed to promote that "them and us" mindset.
And I think it's that mindset (or rather the perception of that mindset) that lies behind a lot of the arguments on here.
It wasn't meant in anyway to be a dig at Zoe or any other of the pros on here, although it seems that it has been taken that way.
.... it hasn't done pro's any favours again ......
Simon, I don't think that's the case at all.
I don't know who all the pros on here are, but I don't think this thread has done any harm to the vast majority of posters.
Most of the comments have been honest & constructive and have led to a sensible if slightly heated debate.
My opinion is what it is on the opening post and if it's prompted a useful exchange of views that's only a good thing.
I just think it's a shame if it's kicked off a debate that's led to the loss of a member.
On the other hand, if we're saying that people asking for C&C should expect to receive just that . . . surely somebody starting a thread like this should expect honest feedback in the same way.
I don't really understand :shrug:
Just a little confused and disappointed by Zoe's reaction - and feeling a bit guilty because I started this line of thinking.
(I've edited this twice now to reword bits, so I'll shut up now before I dig myself into a hole)
Daysleeper40
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I'm not disagreeing with you but the problem is - that's not how a lot of "professionals" see it.
I've seen so many arguments on here about what being a pro actually means and I really don't want to start another one. My point is there will always be someone calling themselves a pro for different reasons than yours and waving their willy about like it's going out of fashion - as long as that person is making enough noise then there will be an undercurrent of a divide.
I like to base my opinions on each individual person and not label groups because of the actions of one - but there is no getting away from the fact that it is human nature to catagorize people and assign them attributes based on a label. It's how we make sense of the world and how we fit ourselves into it.
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this other than to say unless we forget all labels other than "Talk Photography Member" then I do think there will be a perceived divide BUT how we react to that divide and interact with each other is still completely within our control.
Diego Garcia
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Yea, near as dammit! Had a game Saturday, last night, tonight and tomorrow night... would have as well on the Sunday but I was otherwise engaged
I've been shooting for them since New Year, and things are looking promising (well, from my side they are anyway
Good stuff, went for a coffee with Dan and mentioned your desire.
Hope it works out, get in there whilst your a young man
Jo
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You didn't if that helps
I laughed when I read your post initially as I had literally just delete my own post (before hitting submit) saying just about the same thing.
spxxxx
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Sarah - my point exactly
Bad day or not - you can be sure it will be that day that everyone sits up and takes notice
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You didn't if that helps
Thanks Jo - that does help
I didn't want to be seen as stirring, because that wasn't what I intended at all.
Yes. But on balance, I think the discussion between the majority of posters (pro or amateur) has only shown people in a positive light.
It's good to see that overall both "groups" agree on what they want out of the forum.
DiddyDave
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Looks it's simple folks...
Professional is better than Amateur EVERYTIME - simples - in Scrabble anyway
As for photography - well I guess we know more about the life & business of being a Pro photographer, but we don't necessarily know any more than a keen Am on anything technical or artistic about photography
Pros are not necessarily very good photographers, though most are pretty good as otherwise people wouldn't book them for jobs, but a Pro's opinion is NO different to any well informed other, and no more relevant than any other whether they be well informed or not
"I love it" is a perfectly good response to an image. If that image is crap by others' standards then that opinion is fine too. The key to useful comments is commentary - being able to say why it's great or not is far more important and useful to everyone as
a) they can see you're right and learn from it; or
b) they can see you're an arse, totally wrong, and discount your opinion - but having considered it they will have learned from it
Asking about business in the Talk Business section is where a Pro's response is most likely to be valuable and different to perhaps an Am's response; in all other sections, it's just an opinion - and one to take it or leave it
Phew - 2p enjoyably spent there
DD
Professional is better than Amateur EVERYTIME - simples - in Scrabble anyway
As for photography - well I guess we know more about the life & business of being a Pro photographer, but we don't necessarily know any more than a keen Am on anything technical or artistic about photography
Pros are not necessarily very good photographers, though most are pretty good as otherwise people wouldn't book them for jobs, but a Pro's opinion is NO different to any well informed other, and no more relevant than any other whether they be well informed or not
"I love it" is a perfectly good response to an image. If that image is crap by others' standards then that opinion is fine too. The key to useful comments is commentary - being able to say why it's great or not is far more important and useful to everyone as
a) they can see you're right and learn from it; or
b) they can see you're an arse, totally wrong, and discount your opinion - but having considered it they will have learned from it
Asking about business in the Talk Business section is where a Pro's response is most likely to be valuable and different to perhaps an Am's response; in all other sections, it's just an opinion - and one to take it or leave it
Phew - 2p enjoyably spent there
DD
mrgas
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just noticed this thread !
I'm also a bit puzzled as to Zoes reaction , I cant believe she didn't expect a bit of a heated debate after starting this one !
As for the pros and ams thing , I'm not too bothered whether someones a Pro or not , I've seen good and bad work from both sides of the fence so to speak , there are some Pros on here that continually present excellent photos that I enjoy looking at , I've got absolutely no interest in wedding photography whatsover but I'll alaways click on a certain chesterfield residents posts to see how its done , likewise with the aviation stuff theres some stunning work a lot of it from amateurs
i think the point I'm trying to make is that there is a good mix of people and abilities on here and this makes for some very interesting posts and pics , me personally I'm an amateur and long may it continue , I've no interest whatsover in doing photography for a living , dont get me wrong I'd love to sell my first print but thats as far as it goes.
As for advice I dont care whether the people giving advice are pros or not , good advice can come from anyone
I'm also a bit puzzled as to Zoes reaction , I cant believe she didn't expect a bit of a heated debate after starting this one !
As for the pros and ams thing , I'm not too bothered whether someones a Pro or not , I've seen good and bad work from both sides of the fence so to speak , there are some Pros on here that continually present excellent photos that I enjoy looking at , I've got absolutely no interest in wedding photography whatsover but I'll alaways click on a certain chesterfield residents posts to see how its done , likewise with the aviation stuff theres some stunning work a lot of it from amateurs
i think the point I'm trying to make is that there is a good mix of people and abilities on here and this makes for some very interesting posts and pics , me personally I'm an amateur and long may it continue , I've no interest whatsover in doing photography for a living , dont get me wrong I'd love to sell my first print but thats as far as it goes.
As for advice I dont care whether the people giving advice are pros or not , good advice can come from anyone
Just a comment about photo criticism.
Personally I'd rather have details "that could be cropped better - like this" "what did you think was the interesting bit?" or even more bluntness. (Though joining a photo club will get plenty of that.). But that's just me.
Maybe it'd be good to state if we really want warts-and-all constructive criticism? Like in that other photo forum (which seems to be maybe 99% aggro about canon / nikon / sigma), where they have "dragon's den" threads which are actually good and non-aggroey (at least as I've seen so far).
But also... I'd be interested to find out from people who make their money doing photography ("pros"?) what it's like to have taken the risk of making your living doing photography. Good / bad / how you find inspiration / does inspiration matter? / how to put people at ease....
Personally I'd rather have details "that could be cropped better - like this" "what did you think was the interesting bit?" or even more bluntness. (Though joining a photo club will get plenty of that.). But that's just me.
Maybe it'd be good to state if we really want warts-and-all constructive criticism? Like in that other photo forum (which seems to be maybe 99% aggro about canon / nikon / sigma), where they have "dragon's den" threads which are actually good and non-aggroey (at least as I've seen so far).
But also... I'd be interested to find out from people who make their money doing photography ("pros"?) what it's like to have taken the risk of making your living doing photography. Good / bad / how you find inspiration / does inspiration matter? / how to put people at ease....
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Don't really see how we could run a 2 tier crit system. There is a place to publish images here for no crit, the other areas should be considered "fair game".
Posters choice.
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.... and that shows why I should read more before posting...Try the "In depth critique" subforum.
Thanks.
ujjwaldey8165
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what was this whole thread about?
M
MarkyP
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Couldn't have said it better myself
The term "Pro" conjures up such emotion it baffles me.
Today I was having a discussion with a friend as to what a "Pro" was and I truly baffled him.
I know a Soldier, who just happens to take photos for the Army. The Army supply his equipment, pay for his training but first and foremost he is a Soldier. If it came down to the wire and the doo doo hit the fan, he would put down his camera, pick up his SA80 and be a soldier. Now this particular Soldier is rather good at what he does. He photographs everyone from VIP's down to the private grunt on the ground. He has had many many images published and I believe is up for some awards. He is though a Soldier, he gets paid to be a Soldier, and receives no financial gain or renumeration whatsoever for taking photographs.
So he receives no payment for taking photographs and I would like to be there if anyone was to tell him he wasn't a Professional.
He would take you down a dark alleyway and batter you round the head with a trusty D3s with a 70-200 attached
Too many people get hung up on terminology when it isn't about that, it's about the photography.
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Looks it's simple folks...
Professional is better than Amateur EVERYTIME - simples - in Scrabble anyway
As for photography - well I guess we know more about the life & business of being a Pro photographer, but we don't necessarily know any more than a keen Am on anything technical or artistic about photography
Pros are not necessarily very good photographers, though most are pretty good as otherwise people wouldn't book them for jobs, but a Pro's opinion is NO different to any well informed other, and no more relevant than any other whether they be well informed or not
"I love it" is a perfectly good response to an image. If that image is crap by others' standards then that opinion is fine too. The key to useful comments is commentary - being able to say why it's great or not is far more important and useful to everyone as
a) they can see you're right and learn from it; or
b) they can see you're an arse, totally wrong, and discount your opinion - but having considered it they will have learned from it
Asking about business in the Talk Business section is where a Pro's response is most likely to be valuable and different to perhaps an Am's response; in all other sections, it's just an opinion - and one to take it or leave it
Phew - 2p enjoyably spent there
DD
And 2p well spent imho Dave.
As a amateur myself i love the views of the pro's but also realise that everyones views count...
md
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Couldn't have said it better myself
The term "Pro" conjures up such emotion it baffles me.
Today I was having a discussion with a friend as to what a "Pro" was and I truly baffled him.
I know a Soldier, who just happens to take photos for the Army. The Army supply his equipment, pay for his training but first and foremost he is a Soldier. If it came down to the wire and the doo doo hit the fan, he would put down his camera, pick up his SA80 and be a soldier. Now this particular Soldier is rather good at what he does. He photographs everyone from VIP's down to the private grunt on the ground. He has had many many images published and I believe is up for some awards. He is though a Soldier, he gets paid to be a Soldier, and receives no financial gain or renumeration whatsoever for taking photographs.
So he receives no payment for taking photographs and I would like to be there if anyone was to tell him he wasn't a Professional.
He would take you down a dark alleyway and batter you round the head with a trusty D3s with a 70-200 attached
Too many people get hung up on terminology when it isn't about that, it's about the photography.
Surprisingly enough, we may already know him
zoom
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This raises an interesting point.
I recently contacted a certain person advertising photography training and asked about their qualifications. It turned out that they had almost the exact same qualifications as the ones my wife has. (My wife knows nothing about cameras but she has a BA, and an MA in education and she is highly qualified to teach any number of business related subjects. All very well but you wouldn't want her to show you how to use a camera)
Judging from their website, the person advertising the course seems highly competent and she is qualified to teach but she still doesn't have an actual photography qualification.
I know a lot of people will say that a photography degree doesn't necessarily make you a better photographer than someone who's just highly experienced with cameras but it matters to me that people who are teaching me have gone through the correct training. I expect them to not just know as much as me but to know far, far more or I feel I'm wasting my time and money. There's a bloke down the road who drives his car rather well but if I was 17 and about to learn how to drive, would I go to a trained driving instructor or to him?