What do you want from the professionals?

matty said:
are we still arguing? shall I lock this now?
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I'm trying to debate and discuss politely and perhaps intelligently?
 
No, don't lock it yet Matt... There's still more to be said I think (when people come home from work) and for the most part, this has stayed pretty polite in comparison to some! :)

Cheers,
Si
 
PsiFox said:
But if that is the case then Zoe should not have mentioned her Facebook issues here.

A It is not relevant
B TP is indexed by google and Zoe links to her website in her sig so she is drawing more attention to the issue.
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Obviously thats up to Zoe, it doesn't really make my point less valid though does it?

Besides I dont think in the grand scheme of things mentioning it here will have done her any damage because its not likely to be indexed highly for search terms she is targeting.

Someone throwing stuff up on her very public facebook page however is a lot more serious.
 
I'm surprised and a little disappointed too - I like her as a poster, though I think she's been a little over sensitive on this one - (isn't it Zoe who doesn't like to 'sugar coat' crits? or have I got that confused?) and with a bit of luck, she'll chill a bit and then carry on posting as usual. :)


Zoe - as has been said, your posting style can be abrasive, and sometimes you do come across as if you're the only photographer to have ever picked up a camera...to flounce because not everyone falls at your feet and lavishes you with praise seems a little bit precious. You are held in high regard here by the vast majority from what I've seen...but you can't expect everyone to adore you.
 
Jo said:
No please wait I'm composing my reply!
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Nearly 10 minutes and we are still waiting.

If you hadn't posted to tell us you were going to post we might be there by now:D
 
AliB said:
Radiohead said:
Mine is HUGE though.
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:naughty: well hello :D
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:lol:


KIPAX said:
I posted it because I thought it was helpful to those who hadnt spotted the general theme...

But it probably doesn't matter.. If I read another post from ZoZo telling us all how she is a profesional and runs her own business and how TP should be used how she wants it.. well I will probably shoot myself :)
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Unfortunatly I have to agree here.

I have been back to this thread several times, and have also composed a reply .. then deleted it :lol:

It was brushed upon earlier in the thread, but what this thread screams to me is 'Us and them'.


I will say quite simply ... I didn't join TP to pump endless amounts of free advice and tips from professional photographers. In fact I didn't even think there would be any when I first joined. I got the distinct impression this place was named 'Talkphotography' and not 'Professionalphotographersteachamateurshowitdonehere' for a reason :shrug:

I joined to talk and share ideas with people who enjoyed photography. Yes we have some Pro's on board, and yes their advice is awesome (most of the time). But I honestly thought we were here to exist as a community of photography lovers. Not teachers and students.


If I would like advice from a professional I ask them. DD will tell you that ;) Poor bloke had me calling his home number no less! Otherwise the advice I seek is from one and all.

Just because you call yourself a professional, it does not make you better than anyone else here. I have seen work from some so called amateurs that far exceeds the quality from so called professionals, and it that case the amateurs advice would be what I would hope to get if I needed it.

That all sounds a bit miss mash and also slightly contradictory, but I think you'll get my gist folks :)

Group hug anyone? (this is where I would insert a 'snigger' smilie if we had one) Or maybe one great big swingers party would help air everyone frustrations? :D
 
I think lock it .... it hasn't done pro's any favours again ...... :(
 
I would like to see ZoZo continue posting.. She obviously knows her stuff and has a lot to offer... I just think she shouldnt try to change TP and just use it like the rest of us do... Enjoy it.. warts and all :)
 
spxxxx said:
I think lock it .... it hasn't done pro's any favours again ...... :(
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Aww now come on.

Are you saying you expect favours now? (I can send you my work number if you like? :naughty:)
 
I don't think it has harmed professionals at all Simon. I think there has been an interesting debate amongst the participants but that doesn't map on to several of the pro photographers on here who impart knowledge, information and opinion and have done for quite some time.

It's a shame when threads like this appear and then degenerate but I think the key thing is that as long as there is this "pro" vs. "not pro" categorisation held by some, we are going to struggle. Surely fora are about sharing experiences and expertise, regardless of how you choose to pay the mortgage?
 
KIPAX said:
I would like to see ZoZo continue posting.. She obviously knows her stuff and has a lot to offer... I just think she shouldnt try to change TP and just use it like the rest of us do... Enjoy it.. warts and all :)
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100% :agree:
 
spxxxx said:
I think lock it .... it hasn't done pro's any favours again ...... :(
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Can you say why please?
Is it the general tone of the thread or the reaction from a pro that you find annoying (sorry bad choice of word can't think of the one I want to use)?
 
KIPAX said:
I would like to see ZoZo continue posting.. She obviously knows her stuff and has a lot to offer... I just think she shouldnt try to change TP and just use it like the rest of us do... Enjoy it.. warts and all :)
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Jo said:
100% :agree:
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And me:)
 
I think there needs to be a TP orgy where all the supposed pro's and the so called amatuers get in a room and go crazy for a few hours.

I'll take the photos :D

Seriously, is there REALLY a pro/am divide here? If so, why? We are ALL photographers, all aiming to enjoy the process of taking and producing nice photos :) Screw the divide, we are all in the same club guys, earning or not!

G.
 
EdinburghGary said:
I think there needs to be a TP orgy where all the supposed pro's and the so called amatuers get in a room and go crazy for a few hours.

I'll take the photos :D

Seriously, is there REALLY a pro/am divide here? If so, why? We are ALL photographers, all aiming to enjoy the process of taking and producing nice photos :) Screw the divide, we are all in the same club guys, earning or not!

G.
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well said....spot on....we are PHOTOGRAPHERS.....paid or not we all enjoy our hobby/pastime :thumbs:
 
EdinburghGary said:
Seriously, is there REALLY a pro/am divide here? .
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I hope not.. I am considered a pro because I make a living from photography.. I am self employed and its my only income.. But really.. deep down I am just one of the girls :)
 
No divide from me down South either
 
grumpybadger said:
I don't think it has harmed professionals at all Simon.
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I disagree - we all know the history on here .... so Professionals perhaps should try and clean up their reputation - tarnished by the few - but tarnished none the less.....

As people in business - we have to have thick skins ... so to flounce off doesn't help the working photographers profile on TP or anywhere

Some may say they don't care what people think - but I do .... too often the professional photographer is having standards brought down by poor shoddy work ..... that isn't confined to picture quality - but how we portray ourselves as well.

Sulking doesn't help
 
spxxxx said:
I disagree - we all know the history on here .... so Professionals perhaps should try and clean up their reputation - tarnished by the few - but tarnished none the less.....

As people in business - we have to have thick skins ... so to flounce off doesn't help the working photographers profile on TP or anywhere

Some may say they don't care what people think - but I do .... too often the professional photographer is having standards brought down by poor shoddy work ..... that isn't confined to picture quality - but how we portray ourselves as well.

Sulking doesn't help
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Ah, see where you are coming from now.
 
Jo said:
...Group hug anyone? (this is where I would insert a 'snigger' smilie if we had one) Or maybe one great big swingers party would help air everyone frustrations? :D
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Keys in the ashtray again Jo? :D ;)

Good post too! :)
Si
 
EdinburghGary said:
Seriously, is there REALLY a pro/am divide here? If so, why? We are ALL photographers, all aiming to enjoy the process of taking and producing nice photos :) Screw the divide, we are all in the same club guys, earning or not!

G.
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My point exactly but thread titles like "What do you want from the professionals" don't reinforce that viewpoint.

spxxxx said:
I disagree - we all know the history on here .... so Professionals perhaps should try and clean up their reputation - tarnished by the few - but tarnished none the less.....

As people in business - we have to have thick skins ... so to flounce off doesn't help the working photographers profile on TP or anywhere

Some may say they don't care what people think - but I do .... too often the professional photographer is having standards brought down by poor shoddy work ..... that isn't confined to picture quality - but how we portray ourselves as well.

Sulking doesn't help
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I still stick to my viewpoint Simon that individual professional photographers on here should be viewed as individuals. But, I sympathise with your point of view and concern.
 
Spiritflier said:
Keys in the ashtray again Jo? :D ;)

Good post too! :)
Si
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Whatever do you mean? ... :$

Forgot to quote, but I just wanted to add one more thing.

I don't think there is an 'us and them' divide right now (well not a noticeable one), but there will be if threads like these keep appearing.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Seriously, is there REALLY a pro/am divide here? If so, why? We are ALL photographers, all aiming to enjoy the process of taking and producing nice photos :) Screw the divide, we are all in the same club guys, earning or not!

G.
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Bang on the money! :thumbs:

I know some amateurs whose work I would be proud to call my own. I also know some pros who should be ashamed of what they produce.

Thread titles such as 'what do you want from the pros?' are patronising IMO, derogatory to anyone who isn't a pro...and as a pro, I don't want to be included in any them/us type ********.
 
Interesting read.
 
Jo said:
I don't think there is an 'us and them' divide right now (well not a noticeable one), but there will be if threads like these keep appearing.
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Exactly - TP is an open forum and as such a working professional should realise that his or her next client could be reading their tantrums. it doesn't do any good for the industry.

Want to whine - do it behind closed forum doors ....
 
i don't think it should be locked yet, it's digressing for sure but it's now turning into what's expected from users and pro or amateur i think most people are agreeing that everyone should give advice and take advice

is there a problem for a "pro" photographer to be taking advice/criticism on a public forum?
 
alexkidd said:
i don't think it should be locked yet, it's digressing for sure but it's now turning into what's expected from users and pro or amateur i think most people are agreeing that everyone should give advice and take advice

is there a problem for a "pro" photographer to be taking advice/criticism on a public forum?
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Shouldn't be guess it depends on whether there is a holier than thou photographer present.

Personally i've yet to meet the perfect photographer and never expect to.
 
alexkidd said:
is there a problem for a "pro" photographer to be taking advice/criticism on a public forum?
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No there isn't - if they offer themselves up for advice/criticism then they should expect it ....

What I'm trying to get across is that the state of the professional (i.e sole income) photographers standing amongst the general public (professionals and ammeters alike) is already being damaged by some sectors - and can well do without these types of displays
 
AliB said:
:naughty: well hello :D
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:love:


chrisgeary said:
I'm happy to accept the fact without proof. :D
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:D:D
ZoZo said:
Look guys, I had an incident yesterday where someone was extremely abusive on my FB page, wrote all kinds of nasty things, made things up, accused me of only being a photographer for 3 years, not deserving my awards, and so many other things that are factually incorrect and some very hurtful things. I'm a bit bruised from that, and extremely wary now as a result, so I know it appears I am over-reacting, but I'm not, I'm simply thinking that if there are some here - Ryan, Simon (spiritfier) and a handful more - who are just going to pick fights with me every time I write something from my knowledge base, make digs about me in relation to things that they think they know about and actually don't (s-wpp), well, I just don't need the agro, I have a business to run, and from last Wednesday through to today I now have 6 days of shoots to process.

So I'm not being petty, just being careful, as I genuinely don't want fights, don't want nastiness, and genuinely do want to help people. I'll be coming back, but right now, after yesterday and then 10 phone calls from the guy today after I blocked him on FB, well, I just feel I don't need and don't want the agro.

I do have opinions, but even those who don't write have opinions - however it seems that because I state mine I am opinionated.

Well, I'll keep my opinions to my blog for now, thanks, and I'll come back when it feels better

Thank you
Zoe
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:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

That both sucks and blows.
 
spxxxx said:
No there isn't - if they offer themselves up for advice/criticism then they should expect it ....

What I'm trying to get across is that the state of the professional (i.e sole income) photographers standing amongst the general public (professionals and ammeters alike) is already being damaged by some sectors - and can well do without these types of displays
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I don't think most of us do the 'lumping everyone into one category', Simon. Like all professions, there are good and bad and people with half a brain realise this.
 
Jo said:
I got the distinct impression this place was named 'Talkphotography' and not 'Professionalphotographersteachamateurshowitdonehere'
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I've just checked and that domain's still available if you want to start an alternative forum, Jo. ;)
 
Jo said:
:lol:
Group hug anyone? (this is where I would insert a 'snigger' smilie if we had one) Or maybe one great big swingers party would help air everyone frustrations? :D
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Ha ha ha!

I thought I was bad Jo but there ain't no way I'm lobbing my car keys in a bowl round here :cuckoo:
 
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