What do you want from the professionals?

Look guys, I had an incident yesterday where someone was extremely abusive on my FB page, wrote all kinds of nasty things, made things up, accused me of only being a photographer for 3 years, not deserving my awards, and so many other things that are factually incorrect and some very hurtful things. I'm a bit bruised from that, and extremely wary now as a result, so I know it appears I am over-reacting, but I'm not, I'm simply thinking that if there are some here - Ryan, Simon (spiritfier) and a handful more - who are just going to pick fights with me every time I write something from my knowledge base, make digs about me in relation to things that they think they know about and actually don't (s-wpp), well, I just don't need the agro, I have a business to run, and from last Wednesday through to today I now have 6 days of shoots to process.

So I'm not being petty, just being careful, as I genuinely don't want fights, don't want nastiness, and genuinely do want to help people. I'll be coming back, but right now, after yesterday and then 10 phone calls from the guy today after I blocked him on FB, well, I just feel I don't need and don't want the agro.

I do have opinions, but even those who don't write have opinions - however it seems that because I state mine I am opinionated.

Well, I'll keep my opinions to my blog for now, thanks, and I'll come back when it feels better

Thank you
Zoe
 
purpleclouds said:
Same here Zoe :) Thankfully, it's a little harder to get in to my area of photography - sports. I don't feel at all threatened by someone posting pictures of their Sunday league team so am more than happy to share my ideas and thoughts with them, and provide constructive help for them to make use of in the future.

In fact, 99% of the sports photographers who I work with (and are my direct competition) all sit and have a bit of a banter before/during/after a game and there is in 99% of cases not a bad word to be said about anyone :)

I can see why professional wedding photographers may get a bit edgy about things, but there is more often than not a gross over reaction!
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interesting - are you now full time with a sports desk/agency then Phil?
 
ZoZo said:
Look guys, I had an incident yesterday where someone was extremely abusive on my FB page, wrote all kinds of nasty things, made things up, accused me of only being a photographer for 3 years, not deserving my awards, and so many other things that are factually incorrect and some very hurtful things. I'm a bit bruised from that, and extremely wary now as a result, so I know it appears I am over-reacting, but I'm not, I'm simply thinking that if there are some here - Ryan, Simon (spiritfier) and a handful more - who are just going to pick fights with me every time I write something from my knowledge base, make digs about me in relation to things that they think they know about and actually don't (s-wpp), well, I just don't need the agro, I have a business to run, and from last Wednesday through to today I now have 6 days of shoots to process.

So I'm not being petty, just being careful, as I genuinely don't want fights, don't want nastiness, and genuinely do want to help people. I'll be coming back, but right now, after yesterday and then 10 phone calls from the guy today after I blocked him on FB, well, I just feel I don't need and don't want the agro.

I do have opinions, but even those who don't write have opinions - however it seems that because I state mine I am opinionated.

Well, I'll keep my opinions to my blog for now, thanks, and I'll come back when it feels better

Thank you
Zoe
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Another falling prey to nutters on FB eh? Silly arses :(

Of course you're opinionated Zoe, we all are it's what makes our posts more interesting. If some don't like them, then as Matty says they can avoid us

Sadly I predicted this thread would fall apart and it has :'(

So if you feel the need, take a TP break, kick ass on FB and return for 'ZoZo-2 the 2nd coming' :)

Cheers

Dave
 
ZoZo said:
Look guys, I had an incident yesterday where someone was extremely abusive on my FB page, wrote all kinds of nasty things, made things up, accused me of only being a photographer for 3 years, not deserving my awards, and so many other things that are factually incorrect and some very hurtful things...

...I'm simply thinking that if there are some here - Ryan, Simon (spiritflier) and a handful more - who are just going to pick fights with me every time I write something from my knowledge base...

...I'll be coming back, but right now, after yesterday and then 10 phone calls from the guy today after I blocked him on FB, well, I just feel I don't need and don't want the agro...

Thank you
Zoe
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First of all Zoe, I'm genuinely sorry to hear you had trouble on your Facebook page and with the phonecalls... Hopefully you'll have a name and be able to act accordingly. I'm a little bit miffed that you've singled some of us out when all we've done is respond in a fashion that you yourself use! Nobody here goes looking for trouble or aggro but some of us are also open enough to respond directly when we feel there's a need. It's part of forum life... You of all people should understand that! :)

I think that having a tantrum and storming off is a little childish. There are plenty of people here (including me) who've all said you bring plenty to the table and don't feel that it's necessary (or desirable) for you to leave. As I've said previously, show us what you can do... Post images and tell us where YOU think you could have done better... The best lessons are the ones where people can actually SEE where you're coming from.

As with all such forums though, the decision ultimately lies with you.
Regards,
Si
 
matty said:
Sigh. however much I hate to agree, you are correct. :gag:

so what have we learned today folks?
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Voyager is the only member to have read the rules fully?:D
 
matty said:
Sigh. however much I hate to agree, you are correct. :gag:

so what have we learned today folks?
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Do you want a Phil and Phils perfect 10 (podcast) type roundup?

Well children, today we've learnt that Radiohead has a huge one, which interests AliB, 2P can be presented in a number of ways, I'm glad I don't have facebook and if you're going to flounce, then flounce quietly - thems the rules (which only voyager has bothered reading?)

Oh and from the professionals we want car chases, guns and old school fords....
 
Did my post get deleted or did i not post it.. its possible either way... so many windows open and doing so many things?
 
You got moderated.
 
Twas there a minute ago
 
No idea why but I'm guessing it didn't disappear of its own accord so it must have been moderated.
 
Yes, a "slightly less than helpful" post was removed :)
 
Grendel said:
Yes, a "slightly less than helpful" post was removed :)
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I posted it because I thought it was helpful to those who hadnt spotted the general theme...

But it probably doesn't matter.. If I read another post from ZoZo telling us all how she is a profesional and runs her own business and how TP should be used how she wants it.. well I will probably shoot myself :)
 
Been lurking but opting not to comment on this thread until now.

I felt the same way as what Ryanyboy said. I felt ooh that's a little 'them and us'. 'What's the point in asking the original question?'

My answer to Zoe's original question would be just get on, be nice, be honest and critical and offer advice as requested.

I feel Zoe has overreacted just a little. At the end of the day isn't Ryan's reply just a little like honest constructive crit? Maybe there was a bit of history there, but there isn't between me and Zozo.

Anyhow, on a side note - I thought 'goodbye' posts weren't allowed? :rules: Or are temporary goodbye's OK? :shrug:
 
Freester said:
My answer to Zoe's original question would be just get on, be nice, be honest and critical and offer advice as requested.:
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Like TP has always been used.. You shouldnt have to start threads like this.,. you should be able to guage from responses your already getting for an answer.
 
ZoZo said:
Look guys, I had an incident yesterday where someone was extremely abusive on my FB page, wrote all kinds of nasty things, made things up, accused me of only being a photographer for 3 years, not deserving my awards, and so many other things that are factually incorrect and some very hurtful things.
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That's inexcusable, if thats spill over from an argument or disagreement that started on this or another forum I am not surprised you feel like a break from it. Its one thing having a disagreement with someone on a semi private forum but if they then extend it to something very visible to your clients that your business is dependent on then I think thats seriously pathetic.

One of my first discussions here I was threatened in a similair way by a certain member for expressing my opinion here on something and it left a real sour taste that nearly put me off continuing to post here and its definitely made me share less as a consequence.

Some people seem to think they are safe to post abuse and lies on the internet without any retribution in real life but the boundaries between real life and internet life aren't really boundaries at all .... except where people are hiding behind fake identities and even then its generally possible to dig deeper and find the real person behind the name.

Hope you find them and are able to dish out some suitable justice.
 
KIPAX said:
I posted it because I thought it was helpful to those who hadnt spotted the general theme...

But it probably doesn't matter.. If I read another post from ZoZo telling us all how she is a profesional and runs her own business and how TP should be used how she wants it.. well I will probably shoot myself :)
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It's nice to know I'm not the only one feeling this way Kipax :) Thanks to all of those who have supported me with what I said to Zoe

I wasn't trying to be unkind or make "personal attacks" to you Zoe. I stated the facts and obviously the truth has hurt. Clearly your experiences with Facebook have been hard and I wouldn't wish that on you or anyone else. But since when have you ever considered what is going on in other people's worlds when you've jumped in with both feet???

Some of the more sychophantic members of the forum may feel I should apologise but I'm not so sure.
 
I'm wondering if this thread will still be open when I get home and have a chance to write a properly thought out reply? I'm not hopeful so I'll just say this.

I want to be a pro photographer one day. With that in mind I am grateful for all input from everyone on this site. It doesn't matter if you're pro or not its all the same to me - another persons eyes when it comes to image crit. For other matters its more or less the same, I take everything on board. I'm grown up enough to know when someones reply isn't helpful and I can make my mind up whether or not to ignore it or learn from it, it doesn't matter who posted it and how they make a living.

So ZoZo keep posting, there are lots of people on here who do appreciate what you have to say. Most of us are also adult enough not to get upset even if we don't agree with what you're saying sometimes, and those that do, well you're always going to get that no matter what you say so just ignore them and carry on as normal. What's the point in getting upset with people who don't agree with you? You aren't ever going to change their mind in an internet forum.
 
By the way - I have no "history" with Zoe (or anyone else).
 
Wedding-Photos said:
except where people are hiding behind fake identities .
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I am guessing you wernt christened "Wedding-Photos" :)

The internet isnt real life.. you should never feel thretened or even upset by anything anyone posts.. its just text :)
 
KIPAX said:
I am guessing you wernt christened "Wedding-Photos" :)

The internet isnt real life.. you should never feel thretened or even upset by anything anyone posts.. its just text :)
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Proably not, but Nick, you, Ryan, I and about half the forum don't really make any sort of effort to hide their identities.

I wasn't born 'boyfalldown' but it doesn't take much to work out who I am
 
KIPAX said:
I am guessing you wernt christened "Wedding-Photos" :)

The internet isnt real life.. you should never feel thretened or even upset by anything anyone posts.. its just text :)
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As I am sure you weren't christened KIPAX, but the fact that I share my business websites in my signature and real name in my profile means I aren't hiding behind a forum name just as you aren't, for some its not the same though.

Sorry but your second sentence just isn't true, for many of us the internet is our biggest source of new customers so whats on there is very real because its paying the bills for us...... if people mess with that then its just the same as someone vandalizing a physical shop front.
 
Wedding-Photos said:
Sorry but your second sentence just isn't true, for many of us the internet is our biggest source of new customers so whats on there is very real because its paying the bills for us...... if people mess with that then its just the same as someone vandalizing a physical shop front.
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Have to agree with this on a personal level. Often my pc is the link to the outside world.
 
Like a lot of people, I've been sat watching this thread develop so perhaps its time I added my two pence worth.

Firstly, Zoe clearly knows her stuff but she can be highly abrasive. Her matter-of-fact way of addressing people comes over as 'I'm right so don't argue.' Right down to her signature line of 'It's all about me, me, me, me, me, ME - when will the clients realise this :D' she exudes a confidence that is bound to put the odd back up. (Yes, I know her signature line is supposed to be humorous but it sort of sets the tone wrongly AFAIC)

I don't want to keep reading that someone is giving their advice for free: we all are. I thought that's what forums are about.
 
Wedding-Photos said:
As I am sure you weren't christened KIPAX, but the fact that I share my business websites in my signature and real name in my profile means I aren't hiding behind a forum name just as you aren't, for some its not the same though.

Sorry but your second sentence just isn't true, for many of us the internet is our biggest source of new customers so whats on there is very real because its paying the bills for us...... if people mess with that then its just the same as someone vandalizing a physical shop front.
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But if that is the case then Zoe should not have mentioned her Facebook issues here.

A It is not relevant
B TP is indexed by google and Zoe links to her website in her sig so she is drawing more attention to the issue.
 
are we still arguing? shall I lock this now?
 
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