What do you make of this then?

I went on a "ghost hunt" a few months ago. There were 4 of us. The other 3 had done this before and were believers, I want to believe.
Anyway, we got to Hanchurch Woods just outside Stoke, and went to a clearing where, apparently, a few hundred years ago some witches were hung, also a child rapist, and a few generally pretty evil people. I've got to say I was apprehensive, but didn't "feel" unduly worried or scared. The whole woods just felt very neutral.
Anyhow, a woman asked if there was anyone there....nothing. Asked by name (of the witches) and still nothing. All the time I was firing off my camera with flash. Then the woman read out the recorded verdict attached to the child rapist and the whole atmosphere changed. It went a few degrees colder, the woods went completely black, like someone had cut all ambient light, or thrown a thick blanket over the whole area, my camera battery died, and I swear to this day I could hear whisperings and murmurings all around. I replaced my battery with the spare and started firing off again. The first pics were empty, but since the change in atmosphere I was catching orbs everywhere, different colour orbs, mostly with a red tinge which means anger apparently. We stayed there for nearly an hour, before the feelings started to become real emotion, images of dark and desperate things started to crowd into my head, feelings of absolute anger, panic and degradation, until it became almost unbearable, I had stopped feeling like me and started getting pictures in my tortured mind of doing evil and nasty things, very scary. The only physical thing that happened to me was I got pushed from behind and stumbled, there was no one behind me! The other 3 were claiming being touched, but being a born skeptic I didn't believe until I felt it. As we were walking back to the car we had to walk through a wall of shadows which made us completely blind. Whereas before we could see the car in the ambient light from 20 yards away, now we didn't see it until we were less than two feet away. When I put the headlights on it looked like a huge undefined shadow shape melting into the woods, to say I was by now bricking it was an understatement.
The departure and protection spells (or prayers) were said and by the time we drove away, the woods looked completely normal again, ambient light had been returned, and the feelings of such huge negativity and evil had dissipated. And we laughed and joked about it on the way home, but I think even the seasoned ghost hunters were very shaken.
I won't be going there again!
 
antihero said:
I guess with hindsight it's a shame your mum didn't contact a hot horny blonde instead of a sweaty biker, then you might not have minded a vibrating bed :)
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That would have been nice.

neil_g said:
Out of interest, why start a thread asking if anyone believed and then criticise anyone that doesn't?
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joescrivens said:
But the fact you are posting it here and talking about everyone who interprets it that nothing actually freaky happened "as head buried in the sand" clearly shows that you are leaning to this being some kind of ghostly going on.
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These last two posts just prove that neither of you have read the OP properly. I have said I don't know what was going on and I don't necessarily believe in ghosts, the afterlife or anything of the sort. Do you understand what skepticism means? It means not jumping to conclusions one way or the other. I do, however, know that some of your explanations or even just plain dismissals are not open-minded. Do you not think I have thought it could have been suggestion or a trick? I dismiss those because my sister and I are not stupid or gullible and we were watching the pen like a hawk to see if mum was taking the **** out of us. She was as freaked out as we were. I have tried to write like that holding a pen as lightly as she was in that way and it is impossible.

I do not, however, and I'll repeat for the hard of hearing, jump to the conclusion that it was the ghost of a dead biker. I also do not dismiss it out of hand. I tend towards the theory that it was an unconscious PK event and a tapping into the collective unconscious, but I do not hold this theory as any truer than the other options.

I do, however, feel pretty confident that it was no trick she pulled because, to be frank, my mum is just not up to it. She's a woeful liar and would not have terrified us like that.

It is sad that people dismiss so readily instead of wondering what is happening. I'm quite hopeful that scientific studies into this kind of energy could lead to some major breakthroughs in renewable untapped energy sources.
 
JayD said:
I went on a "ghost hunt" a few months ago. There were 4 of us. The other 3 had done this before and were believers, I want to believe.
Anyway, we got to Hanchurch Woods just outside Stoke, and went to a clearing where, apparently, a few hundred years ago some witches were hung, also a child rapist, and a few generally pretty evil people. I've got to say I was apprehensive, but didn't "feel" unduly worried or scared. The whole woods just felt very neutral.
Anyhow, a woman asked if there was anyone there....nothing. Asked by name (of the witches) and still nothing. All the time I was firing off my camera with flash. Then the woman read out the recorded verdict attached to the child rapist and the whole atmosphere changed. It went a few degrees colder, the woods went completely black, like someone had cut all ambient light, or thrown a thick blanket over the whole area, my camera battery died, and I swear to this day I could hear whisperings and murmurings all around. I replaced my battery with the spare and started firing off again. The first pics were empty, but since the change in atmosphere I was catching orbs everywhere, different colour orbs, mostly with a red tinge which means anger apparently. We stayed there for nearly an hour, before the feelings started to become real emotion, images of dark and desperate things started to crowd into my head, feelings of absolute anger, panic and degradation, until it became almost unbearable, I had stopped feeling like me and started getting pictures in my tortured mind of doing evil and nasty things, very scary. The only physical thing that happened to me was I got pushed from behind and stumbled, there was no one behind me! The other 3 were claiming being touched, but being a born skeptic I didn't believe until I felt it. As we were walking back to the car we had to walk through a wall of shadows which made us completely blind. Whereas before we could see the car in the ambient light from 20 yards away, now we didn't see it until we were less than two feet away. When I put the headlights on it looked like a huge undefined shadow shape melting into the woods, to say I was by now bricking it was an understatement.
The departure and protection spells (or prayers) were said and by the time we drove away, the woods looked completely normal again, ambient light had been returned, and the feelings of such huge negativity and evil had dissipated. And we laughed and joked about it on the way home, but I think even the seasoned ghost hunters were very shaken.
I won't be going there again!
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You were obviously imagining it or under some psychological spell. ;)
 
JayD said:
I went on a "ghost hunt" a few months ago. There were 4 of us. The other 3 had done this before and were believers, I want to believe.
Anyway, we got to Hanchurch Woods just outside Stoke, and went to a clearing where, apparently, a few hundred years ago some witches were hung, also a child rapist, and a few generally pretty evil people. I've got to say I was apprehensive, but didn't "feel" unduly worried or scared. The whole woods just felt very neutral.
Anyhow, a woman asked if there was anyone there....nothing. Asked by name (of the witches) and still nothing. All the time I was firing off my camera with flash. Then the woman read out the recorded verdict attached to the child rapist and the whole atmosphere changed. It went a few degrees colder, the woods went completely black, like someone had cut all ambient light, or thrown a thick blanket over the whole area, my camera battery died, and I swear to this day I could hear whisperings and murmurings all around. I replaced my battery with the spare and started firing off again. The first pics were empty, but since the change in atmosphere I was catching orbs everywhere, different colour orbs, mostly with a red tinge which means anger apparently. We stayed there for nearly an hour, before the feelings started to become real emotion, images of dark and desperate things started to crowd into my head, feelings of absolute anger, panic and degradation, until it became almost unbearable, I had stopped feeling like me and started getting pictures in my tortured mind of doing evil and nasty things, very scary. The only physical thing that happened to me was I got pushed from behind and stumbled, there was no one behind me! The other 3 were claiming being touched, but being a born skeptic I didn't believe until I felt it. As we were walking back to the car we had to walk through a wall of shadows which made us completely blind. Whereas before we could see the car in the ambient light from 20 yards away, now we didn't see it until we were less than two feet away. When I put the headlights on it looked like a huge undefined shadow shape melting into the woods, to say I was by now bricking it was an understatement.
The departure and protection spells (or prayers) were said and by the time we drove away, the woods looked completely normal again, ambient light had been returned, and the feelings of such huge negativity and evil had dissipated. And we laughed and joked about it on the way home, but I think even the seasoned ghost hunters were very shaken.
I won't be going there again!
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It's funny how different people interpret events though. As I said above, I have been in a stuation similar where others in the group claimed all things like you write, yet I felt nothing of this and saw and interpreted things totally differently.

I would suggest that your mind was open to all kinds of suggestion and you just got sucked in.
 
I actually went into it as a complete skeptic. I'm writing what I saw and really felt. I will post the pics up later when I'm on the pc of the orbs.
 
Would be interesting to see said photos of orbs to complete the story :)
 
Orbs are another thing that make me laugh. 'Ghost hunters' always say it's something supernatural and fail to see that they are just the flash bouncing off of particles. Hardly supernatural. And huge LOL at red tinge meaning anger!
 
I'll try and get hold of the photo my mums fella took at Fountain's Abbey of my mum pointing to where she could "see" a monk. She told Steve to take a photo and low and behold an orb was there. Again, I don't know what that's all about.
 
I once worked with the leader of the local spiritualist church - I asked her about ouija boards, and she was adamantly against them as being "meddling in something about which you know nothing and have no ability to control", and warned that the outcomes could be very dangerous indeed for those involved, and she muttered about "unquiet and malevolent spirits"........
 
joesmith said:
Orbs are another thing that make me laugh. 'Ghost hunters' always say it's something supernatural and fail to see that they are just the flash bouncing off of particles. Hardly supernatural. And huge LOL at red tinge meaning anger!
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If you are so amused at this thread, why are you reading it? Is it just to take the wet out of people who do, or may believe? Would you laugh in the face of a religous believer?
 
JayD said:
If you are so amused at this thread, why are you reading it? Is it just to take the wet out of people who do, or may believe? Would you laugh in the face of a religous believer?
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Jay, there's an ignore feature for trolls. ;)
 
JayD said:
If you are so amused at this thread, why are you reading it?
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Doesn't the first part of that sentence answer this question? Haha. And the thread title.

JayD said:
Would you laugh in the face of a religous believer?
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I can't really answer that: "but please, no politics or religion!"

I genuinely just find it funny what people make orbs out to be, it just seems totally mad :cuckoo:
 
neil_g said:
Out of interest, why start a thread asking if anyone believed and then criticise anyone that doesn't?
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The thing is, it's the way it's said by the people who don't. I don't believe as all the experiences I had boiled down to someone moving the glass etc but I'm not going to shoot the believers down. If people want to voice their non belief then do but I don't think there's a need to ridicule anyone at all.

I'm still quite open minded and would like to see it one day.
 
I occasionally watch Most Haunted for the amusement value. I do wonder what explanations would be given for the various 'phenomena' if the programme featured a group of pest controllers instead of 'ghost hunters'.

If you have a hammer every problem looks like a nail. One episode was in Hellfire Caves, near High Wycombe. They all screeched and screamed as usual because one of their number heard a scurrying noise.

In a cave.

Clearly a ghost was the only possible explanation.

Of a scurrying noise.

In a cave.
 
Programs like Most Haunted are obviously entertainment.
 
It's programmes like Most Haunted that make sceptics ridicule believers. It's done for entertainment value. Annoys me lol
 
I alway's thought there were some weird people here on TP, reading this thread today has just confirmed it now but hey! it certainly been amusing and brightened my day. :lol:

One thing that really confuses me, perhaps the ghosthunters or these who believe they are in touch with the some other dimension where human's don't exist can explain why the so called ghostly happenings always seem to happen in the evening or night-time. Do ghost's and bogeymen only work nightshift and never dayshift ?
 
How is that not ridiculing people?
 
frank said:
I alway's thought there were some weird people here on TP, reading this thread today has just confirmed it now but hey! it certainly been amusing and brightened my day. :lol:

One thing that really confuses me, perhaps the ghosthunters or these who believe they are in touch with the some other dimension where human's don't exist can explain why the so called ghostly happenings always seem to happen in the evening or night-time. Do ghost's and bogeymen only work nightshift and never dayshift ?
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That's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. People experience all sorts of unexplained phenomenon during all parts of the day.
 
The23rdman said:
I said I'd bring something up that pseudoskeptics might find hard to explain.
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The23rdman said:
If that head in the sand explanation helps you sleep at night then go for it. for what it's worth I consider Derren Brown to be a pseudoskeptic.

Why? Stage magic is an act. Are you suggesting my mum set up the whole thing to terrify her children? That kind of response to the unknown is worth of a pseudoskeptic badge.
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The23rdman said:
universe has not all be figured out by reductionist fundamentalist materialists.
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The23rdman said:
I have a lot of respect for scientists who put themselves in the firing line to study this stuff and very little for small-minded pseudoskeptics who dismiss anything they cannot understand out of hand.
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The23rdman said:
It'll give all the pseudo's a chance to mock and point the finger again anyway. ;)
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If I see pseudoskeptic mentioned one more time :bang: :lol:
 
Can one of the believers explain to me their opinion on how a ghost can move objects or take them from rooms but they can't move a ouija marker or a pen around themselves?
 
TriggerHappy said:
If I see pseudoskeptic mentioned one more time :bang: :lol:
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If I see pseudoskeptics making silly statements one more time... ;)

I'm making a point by repeating the word. You don't have to read it. ;)
 
joescrivens said:
Can one of the believers explain to me their opinion on how a ghost can move objects or take them from rooms but they can't move a ouija marker or a pen around themselves?
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Well, I'm not a believer but I like that question. It's more worthy of comment. As I said, I tend towards it possibly being a form of PK rather than spirits.
 
The23rdman said:
That's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. People experience all sorts of unexplained phenomenon during all parts of the day.
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When I experience (which I doubt very much will happen) seeing something ghostly happen in front of me perhap's my views might change, until then my view will remain very much the same. It's not ignorance, it's just that my imagination is not as overactive as some others.

The only ghostly thing I see at night is my wife getting undressed, I imagine what she looked like 30 yrs ago then reality kicks in again and I'm brought down to earth with a bump :'(
 
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frank said:
When I experience (which I doubt very much will happen) seeing something ghostly happen in front of me perhap's my views might change, until then my view will remain very much the same. It's not ignorance, it's just that my imagination is not as overactive as some others.
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Again, you have made a sweeping judgement based on your own belief system. That is both ignorant and dismissive.
 
The23rdman said:
If I see pseudoskeptics making silly statements one more time... ;)

I'm making a point by repeating the word. You don't have to read it. ;)
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You're misusing it though, technically. There has been no pseudoskepticism in this thread. A pseudoskeptic is someone who proclaims themselves as a skeptic, but is unwillingly to have their opinion swayed regardless of the presence of hard evidence. In this discussion there is no hard evidence to prove someone to be a pseudoskeptic.

Your use of it comes across as nothing more than a means to dismiss legitimate skepticism as an overtly close-minded attitude towards the as yet unexplained.

Having given the phrase a quick google, it becomes pretty apparent the prolific association the word has between those who believe in the paranormal and their tendency to discredit or criticise those who don't simply agree with themselves.
 
Actually, Jamie, that is one part of the definition, and if you're missing the application of the position in this thread I suggest you go back and read some of the posts. Here's Robert Anton Wilson on the subject...

“DAB: One of your recent books is The New Inquisition: Irrational Rationalism and the Citadel of Science. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about this book.

RAW: I coined the term irrational rationalism because those people claim to be rationalists, but they're governed by such a heavy body of taboos. They're so fearful, and so hostile, and so narrow, and frightened, and uptight and dogmatic. I thought it was a fascinating paradox: irrational rationalists. Later on I found out I didn't invent that. Somebody else who wrote an article on CSICOP, that's the group they all belong to: Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. Somebody else who wrote about them also used the term irrational rationalism. It's a hard term to resist when you think about those people.

I wrote this book because I got tired satirizing fundamentalist Christianity, I had done enough of that in my other books. I decided to satirize fundamentalist materialism for a change, because the two are equally comical. All fundamentalism is comical, unless you believe in it, in which case you'd become a fanatic yourself, and want everybody else to share your fundamentalism. But if you're not a fundamentalist yourself, fundamentalists are the funniest people on the planet. The materialist fundamentalists are funnier than the Christian fundamentalists, because they think they're rational!

DAB: They call themselves skeptical.

RAW: Yes, but they're not skeptical! They're never skeptical about anything except the things they have a prejudice against. None of them ever says anything skeptical about the AMA, or about anything in establishment science or any entrenched dogma. They're only skeptical about new ideas that frighten them. They're actually dogmatically committed to what they were taught when they were in college, which was about 1948-53, somewhere in that period. If you go back and study what was being taught in college in those days as the latest scientific theories, you find out that's what these people still believe. They haven't had a new idea in 30 years, that's all that happened to them. They just rigidified, they crystallized around 1960.”
 
frank said:
Am I not allowed to have a belief or should I bow to your's ?
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That's daft. I don't have belief and you are entitled to yours, but if you fail to see that dismissing people as having an overactive imagination is being a touch derogatory I don't know what to say.
 
I still fail to see where the pseudoskepticism lies in this thread. You made a thread that invited people to discuss your experiences, then instantly dismissed those who weren't immediately convinced as no more than pseudoskeptic.

What makes them a pseudoskeptic, but you not? As far as I can see, that quote you provided could more than adequately describe your position towards the alternative - and I'd say more rational - explanations of your experience.

I quite agree that your experiences are interesting, and a field that deserves more water-tight research. As we well know, eyewitness testimonies are rarely reliable, particularly given the passing of a significant amount of time. So much so that they've been labelled by certain members of the legal world as 'pseudo-evidence'.
 
Fair enough. I'm not going to argue the point with you. I made it all up anyway.
 
TriggerHappy said:
*sigh* That's not what I'm saying at all.
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I know it's not, mate. It was a slightly rubbish joke. I get what you're saying and understand why you see it that way. I admit I've used the term pseudoskeptic poorly at times here.
 
The23rdman said:
That's daft. I don't have belief and you are entitled to yours, but if you fail to see that dismissing people as having an overactive imagination is being a touch derogatory I don't know what to say.
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its no more derogatory than what you have been doing in the thread dean, but you seem completely blinkered to seeing it.

No doubt your reply will include me somehow "missing the point" or me having a need to "go back and read the thread"

But I actually suggest you do that to enable you to see how dismissive and derogatory you yourself are being. :shrug:
 
Damn right I am. Bunch of savages. ;)
 
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